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 Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
#663896
04/06/09 07:22 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166
westtexaswatkins
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THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166 |
With all the debate from the other thread, I thought it would be interesting to see where THF members get their hunting dogs.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663897
04/06/09 07:28 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,594
First_Chance
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High end kennel here, pedigree over price anyday!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#663898
04/06/09 07:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
High end kennel here, pedigree over price anyday!
+1
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#663899
04/06/09 07:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690
FETCH_UP
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Quote:
Quote:
High end kennel here, pedigree over price anyday!
+1
Yep +2 
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#663900
04/06/09 07:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,729
Exbellicus
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I was looking for a companion and pet first, hunting buddy second. Backyard pup!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Exbellicus]
#663901
04/06/09 07:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 921
Zack
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Quote:
I was looking for a companion and pet first, hunting buddy second. Backyard pup!
So you don't think a dog from a high end kennel is a suitable companion? This logic kills me. I hope that you never have to deal with health issues from your back yard pup.
For the record, I have never bred a litter of dogs. High end kennels only for me.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Zack]
#663902
04/06/09 07:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,729
Exbellicus
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Quote:
So you don't think a dog from a high end kennel is a suitable companion? This logic kills me.
That is not anything close to what I said ...stop causing trouble.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Zack]
#663903
04/06/09 07:59 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166
westtexaswatkins
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Have you really experienced that many health problems from dogs you have purchased. I have never bought from a high end kennel and have never had any major health problems. Granted if I go look at a litter of pups and they or parents are poor looking dogs living in bad conditions I would not purchase. But just because you don't buy from the top kennels doesn't mean you are gonna get a lemon.
Last edited by westtexaswatkins; 04/06/09 08:04 PM.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: rb85cj7]
#663905
04/06/09 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,729
Exbellicus
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Yup, a $65 EIC test would have saved him 3 years of hard work. For those who hope to raise a hunting machine, get a tested dog. But it doesn't matter if you pay $20 or $2000, there is no guarantee it won't fall off a couch and damage the growth plate in its hip, or run into a table corner and lose an eye.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Exbellicus]
#663906
04/06/09 09:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,029
TexasEd
THF Trophy Hunter
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I got my dog from a back yard. I knew the parents.
Could you add an option for HT/FT members who aren't high dollar kennels but whose dogs are tested and have the working titles to show they can hunt? That's where I'm going to get my next dog.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Exbellicus]
#663907
04/06/09 09:51 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,594
First_Chance
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Without trying to provoke any additional negative discussion here, I have to say that all you guys defending your decisions to buy BY dogs and then telling those of us that “do this” all the time or have for MANY years otherwise, you're wrong. You can be right in your own mind with whatever way you choose to justify it, but what these guys are telling you, is fact. The bottom line for me is that I like (and choose) to train all of my own dogs, so a good solid bloodline and pedigree is paramount in that process. As far as I’m concerned, there is really no argument to that point. It is what it is and year in, year out, you will get more consistent, healthier, higher performing dogs going this route. You can come up with all of the “never had a problem” or “fall off the couch” scenarios that you want, but I know what I know and I have had dogs with problems from questionable breedings and I made my mind up a long time ago to do the research and pay a little extra for the product and I have never regretted it. I liken it to buying a used car, you just never know what you are getting and although you could buy a lemon right off of the showroom floor, you still get a tested product, a warranty and have much more of a chance of getting a good performing product and being able to take care of it the way you want so it will serve you for a long time... with the used car, it’s basically a crap shoot and it could fall apart tomorrow from stuff you don’t even know about. To me, I want a dog that is a top end, high performing animal (both at home and especially in the field). Besides, a good papered dog will (most of the time) be able to overcome most of my training deficiencies  !! You’ll hear guys talk about their $3000 or $4000 dogs, well, mine are worth that much too if I chose to sell them, but I pay a fraction of that on the front end and train them myself. It’s really all relative and yes, you are somewhat correct in saying that buying a BY dog “doesn’t necessarily predispose you to getting a lemon”, but it is also very correct for all of us with plenty of experience doing it, to tell you that you increase your chances of a problem substantially by doing so. I personally like to eliminate as many of the unknowns and variables as possible, especially with something that I will invest a significant amount of my heart into. Nothing worse than seeing something that you've nurtured and loved, suffer from something you can't do anything about. I've seen some BY dogs turn into $4000 dogs that can't hunt pretty quick from a medical standpoint!! And, just as a footnote since its been mentioned above… I’m also one of those that has never (nor will I ever) breed dogs. I just buy them, train them and hunt them.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#663908
04/06/09 10:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,729
Exbellicus
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I totally agree, I don't think anyone is trying to convince you their "backyard" dog is any better than your high end dog. What it all comes down to is where your priorities lie and what you want out of a dog
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#663909
04/06/09 10:24 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166
westtexaswatkins
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I feel bad for these troubled dogs, as a dog lover I couldn't hardly stand to see one of my dogs go down. I just don't think someone should miss out on the experience of dog ownership because of price. Like I have said, I have never had these kind of problems with any dog I have ever owned, and would not even think of breeding my dog if I thought there was a chance of them sending on bad genes. But we can what if every situation, I mean look at some of the top athletes in the world. Super strong, fast, athletic, and then one wrong step and you have a blown knee or worse(career over). You can't prevent everything. The same thing can happen in the dog world. I agree you should if possible prevent what you can, but don't take that away from those who can't afford it. Not telling anyone to buy my dogs, heck she hasn't even had any yet, just saying buy the best you can, and for a whole lot of people it will not be a $600 or higher labrador.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663910
04/06/09 11:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 157
rb85cj7
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 157 |
If you really care about your dog and the people in which you will sell your pups to, then get your dog tested. There is no excuse for breeding dogs that have not been tested unless you just flat out don't care about the pups. Most labs will make decent hunting dogs and a great family pet. That is in their breed. Don't take this the wrong way, but your dog (read everyone who owns a dog) is not so special that it should be bred even though it has health issues. Not everyone can afford a pup out of the top pedigrees in the country, but everyone should be able to afford a healthy dog.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: rb85cj7]
#663911
04/06/09 11:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,029
TexasEd
THF Trophy Hunter
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Oh, and my BY dog is already spayed. I admit I probably shouldn't have gone that route, but I knew the mother was a solid hunter and also knew the risk I was taking since there had been no tests, but also no history of blindness, hip problems, etc.
So I don't advocate repeating the decision I made, but I knew what the risks were.
Next dog will be from hunt test people and lines that I have seen work myself. And the parents will be tested.
Last edited by TexasEd; 04/07/09 12:23 AM.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: rb85cj7]
#663912
04/06/09 11:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 527
Cody D
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Great post First Chance!
Hmmmm...
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Cody D]
#663913
04/07/09 12:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,984
Sniper John
gumshoe
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gumshoe
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My choice is not there. My V came from a high end backyard breeder, but she did cost about double the figure being tossed around here.
I would buy what I feel will be the best pup for my intended purpose within my budget. The main reason for me to buy the best pup I can afford is first for the best outlook on the dogs future health.
But with that, I would never tell someone to not buy a dog because they can't afford one from a top kennel breeding. If one just wants a companion and hunting dog, it does not have to be elite.
Within budget for me over the years have been hunting dogs with origins that ranged from free dog pound rescues to top kennel breeding costing over a grand. They all did me just fine and were everything I expected them to be. But the key words are "hunting dog" and "what I expected them to be". I needed my lab to retrieve a duck now and then so I would not waste/lose game. With little training it did that. I needed a hound to strike and tree a coon and not run trash. With a little time training and hunting with other hounds they did just that. And I wanted a Brittany to find the rare quail for me on the one or two hunts I could make at the end of deer season or to retrieve the dove that were so hard to find without her. She did that just fine despite the learning curve of my early training mistakes. Not every hunter is a purist. And my current dog, despite having an amazing bloodline impressed me first due to the parents hunting background, health of the parents, and both owner trained. It did not matter to me where the breeding took place or how much a pup cost.
You know, I have tried competition hunting and field trialing before, but found a small percentage of the participants cutthroat and arrogant. Enough so that it made it not fun to me. Most I met that fit that type, did not hunt wild birds/ducks with those dogs. Nothing wrong with that, just a different sport. Only pointing out that we may be comparing apples and oranges and I feel there is a place in the world for both extremes of breeding IMHO.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Sniper John]
#663914
04/07/09 12:34 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166
westtexaswatkins
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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Thanks for the post Sniper, I guess just like everything else in life, we each make our own choices. I have said my peace on here and will leave it at that.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Sniper John]
#663915
04/07/09 12:35 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104 |
I have never bought a "high end dog" and unless i end up with a darn good job, i dont plan too. bought my last lab for 200 from a BY breeder when i was about 12 yrs old, she was a great dog, i trained her all the time, and then sent her to a school for one month to get some things done that the "water dog" book couldnt tell me how to do (she was mainly a dove hunting dog). So i was in the hole about 600 dollars excluding my own time and feed. The trainer offered me $2000 for her when i went to pick her up from his house. I told him she wasnt for sale, i bred her once with another black lab of mine, and all four of her pups were sold to some of my friends, 2 were trained to hunt by my friends, all made great hunting dogs and never had a problem w/ anything. Not saying that a high end dog is not the way to go, but a good dog can be bought from a back yard breeder just the same. IDK we will see, if i find a place to live in that i have a backyard for a dog, i will be buying a new pup, so IDK what i will get, but chances are that i wont pay over 300 for him.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663916
04/07/09 05:13 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
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Quote:
Thanks for the post Sniper, I guess just like everything else in life, we each make our own choices. I have said my peace on here and will leave it at that.
Not so fast... Me thinks you heard something you didn't like... 
No kidding... Your breeding your "back yard joe" to "back yard sue"... Both are in your back yard... Go figure... 
So you think your're breeding "fine dogs" cause no one has complained????
If someone should complain the "barn door was shut after the horses got out"...
Not being very proactive as a breeder.
You do want to breed the healthiest dog you can correct??? Then you need to educate yourself on how to do that. You need to actually know the breed both the good and the bad and try to prevent the bad. Good breeders do that.
I'm not breeding the next FC,,, or the next SRS champion...
I'm breeding a physically sound dog that any amatuer can train... That dog can live in their home, play with their baby and be good looking...
Why is breeding a physically sound dog that is intelligent and good looking such a mystery???
Angie
Last edited by Angie B; 04/07/09 03:20 PM.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663917
04/07/09 07:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,729
Exbellicus
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The fact of the matter is a sound dog that is intelligent and good looking is a matter of opinion and can be picked up from a walmart parking lot or from you. Whether you think it is trashy or sloppy to breed BY dogs really means nothing to people who prefer price over pedigree. I wouldn't pay for a champion dog because I don't need a champion dog. I need a dog that I can play with and love that can assist me in hunting if I feel like training him that way. Watkins, keep breeding for those of us who want a companion/hunter that won't put us in debt. (Not that you care what anyone here has to say! )
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Exbellicus]
#663918
04/07/09 03:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
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Quote:
The fact of the matter is a sound dog that is intelligent and good looking is a matter of opinion and can be picked up from a walmart parking lot or from you. Whether you think it is trashy or sloppy to breed BY dogs really means nothing to people who prefer price over pedigree. I wouldn't pay for a champion dog because I don't need a champion dog. I need a dog that I can play with and love that can assist me in hunting if I feel like training him that way.
Watkins, keep breeding for those of us who want a companion/hunter that won't put us in debt. (Not that you care what anyone here has to say! )
You have no idea that that dog is going to be sound unless the breeding stock has had it's genetic clearances. Hips, eyes and elbows can be evaluated for soundness. If the parents don't have that you're playing with fire and taking a big chance. Hip dysplasia is a serious problem in retrievers. That's something that can't be ignored. For a few hundred dollars more you can get a puppy out of structurally sound stock with paperwork to prove that.
Who wouldn't want that?? You shop and buy the best car, house, lawn mower for your budget and needs, why would you not do the same thing when looking to purchase a companion that will be with you a very, very long time.
I guess until you've dealt with hip dysplasia, retinal dysplasia, elbow dysplasia,,etc, etc....
It's easy to say lets go to the wal-mart parking lot, because a dog is just a dog...
Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663919
04/07/09 04:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673
kbobbjr
Veteran Tracker
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Quote:
Quote:
The fact of the matter is a sound dog that is intelligent and good looking is a matter of opinion and can be picked up from a walmart parking lot or from you. Whether you think it is trashy or sloppy to breed BY dogs really means nothing to people who prefer price over pedigree. I wouldn't pay for a champion dog because I don't need a champion dog. I need a dog that I can play with and love that can assist me in hunting if I feel like training him that way.
Watkins, keep breeding for those of us who want a companion/hunter that won't put us in debt. (Not that you care what anyone here has to say! )
You have no idea that that dog is going to be sound unless the breeding stock has had it's genetic clearances. Hips, eyes and elbows can be evaluated for soundness. If the parents don't have that you're playing with fire and taking a big chance. Hip dysplasia is a serious problem in retrievers. That's something that can't be ignored. For a few hundred dollars more you can get a puppy out of structurally sound stock with paperwork to prove that.
Who wouldn't want that?? You shop and buy the best car, house, lawn mower for your budget and needs, why would you not do the same thing when looking to purchase a companion that will be with you a very, very long time.
I guess until you've dealt with hip dysplasia, retinal dysplasia, elbow dysplasia,,etc, etc....
It's easy to say lets go to the wal-mart parking lot, because a dog is just a dog...
Angie
You're beating your head against a wall....ignorance is bliss..... 
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663920
04/07/09 04:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
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I know,,,, one last pitch though... Humor me all you nay sayers and read this link to the OFA web-site..... Please???? http://www.offa.org/hipgeninfo.htmlhttp://www.offa.org/hipguide.htmlThe first one is what is dysplasia and the second one is a breeders guidelines..... Angie
Last edited by Angie B; 04/08/09 12:56 AM.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663921
04/07/09 04:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690
FETCH_UP
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Knew this was going to happen to this thread lol
HRCH ACE MH Triple D Duck Club
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#663922
04/07/09 04:55 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673
kbobbjr
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It's funny that the overwhelming majority says they buy from high end kennels.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663923
04/07/09 07:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690
FETCH_UP
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Quote:
It's funny that the overwhelming majority says they buy from high end kennels.
Dont we all?? lol  
HRCH ACE MH Triple D Duck Club
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663924
04/07/09 07:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,029
TexasEd
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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Getting a dog from parents with unknown health records is kind of like buying a used car without having a mechanic check it out first.
You could get a great car, but the transmission could also fall out next week.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#663925
04/07/09 08:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673
kbobbjr
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Quote:
Quote:
It's funny that the overwhelming majority says they buy from high end kennels.
Dont we all?? lol
ROTFLMAO!!!  
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663926
04/07/09 09:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,729
Exbellicus
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Exbellicus]
#663927
04/07/09 09:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690
FETCH_UP
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Quote:
LMAO! How true, how true!
HRCH ACE MH Triple D Duck Club
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#663928
04/08/09 12:17 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,278
Fooshman
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,278 |
Anyone have any litters on the ground? 
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Fooshman]
#663929
04/08/09 01:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,152
2000cbr929
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Not that my opinion matters here among "experts", but my selection in my new pup was based on the following. 1. Study the breed standards and know that when you are looking at a litter the parents fit into the proper height/weight over all size and temperament requirement for the breed. 2. Decide if you want a good looking "Foo Foo" dog that looks like the breed has perfect confirmation, but may have through the years searching for perfect confirmation had some of the instinct bred out of it, or search for a dog with good confirmation proper health certification and good looks that is from actual working stock. 3. For me was to find a breeding that fit all of the above incuding all of the health tests and was on the high end of height and weight for the particular breed from a "decent" pedigree as best as I could determine what "decent" was regarding the particular breed. That also came with several references of whom I called and verified or justified my decsion to stick with a certain breeder and certain pairing. 4. Determine from several conversations with the breeder just what kind of breeder you are dealing with. Is he helpful? Is he concerned with the over all livelyhood of the puppy you are purchasing from him? How does he treat his dogs? Too many other questions to ponder that I could go on all day. I for one had a certain criteria for my dog to fit into before he could even be considered, and I stuck to it and was prepared to pay how ever much or little to get what I wanted. Thankfully I ended up with a dog that did not break the bank and as of now is showing much promise from small things like potty training to learning whoa, and retrieving at the wee age of 16 weeks maybe too early for most, but this dog will hunt. He is smart, quick to learn, has huge feet, great will, fantastic looks, and after 2 vet visits been given the seal of approval. Ranger is his name, and he has a nice pedigree, from a high end breeder that cost me around what you would expect to pay for a typical GSP.   
 After eating Payne's sausage I don't know if I can go back to the regular store bought stuff. "Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money" Tom T Hall
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: 2000cbr929]
#663930
04/08/09 01:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 10,646 |
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#663931
04/08/09 04:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35,566
Guy
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I think what many (the uneducated) miss is the “risk” with buy from a back yard breeder. When I bought my Molly, I was “uneducated”, I shopped hard for her, but I did not know what I was doing. I purchased not from a reputable breeder, but this guy was a serious hunter, he breed for his own personal friends and personal use. He was very professional, and seemed like a solid person, but what I was most impressed with was his kennels, very clean, he had a really nice set-up. I paid $400 for Molly, I felt like at the time I was paying a lot more than I should, but I was just impressed with this guy. That was then, I was uneducated, now I’m more educated, namely because of this forum. I realize now the risk I took then. I have had many worries of hip dysplasia with my dog (as I have become more educated on the issues), she will be 4 yr old this September, I have not had her tested yet. She has been fixed, so is there a reason why I should get her tested? Is there some benefit to catching this stuff early? Anyways, my point is, if you buy from a backyard breeder, I think it is because you just do not realize the risks you are taking. My next dog I will pay top dollar for and will buy from the best, you pour your life and soul into a dog, a little more $$$ is worth it to minimize risk of health issue, and getting dog with a pedigree (proven trainability) is just bonus. JMO!!! 
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Guy]
#663932
04/08/09 05:54 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,152
DoubleB20
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I have to agree with Sniper John. There are such things as high end back yard breeders. One would be hard pressed to find better pedigreed dogs than I have, but I'm not a big fancy kennel. Health tests done, careful selection of dogs, I love dogs and puppies are fun! I've seen some of the biggest kennels in the country, I've met more careful and considerate high end back yard breeders. The big name kennels are in it for the money, nothing wrong with that, but a big name doesn't always mean best pedigrees or highest quality dogs. But, to each his own. The initial price is a drop in the bucket compared to the time and effort required to get your dog where you want it to be. A quality, top shelf pedigreed puppy doesn't have to come from big name kennel.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: DoubleB20]
#663933
04/08/09 07:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 237
EricW
Woodsman
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Backyard breeders and Walmart parking lot sellers are one of the major factors fueling passage of regulatory laws. Esp. the spay/neuter laws present in certain areas of Texas and on statewide agenda. You think your BY dogs are cheap now, wait till responsible people have to suffer for the irresponsible and legislation shifts the supply/demand curves and your $200 dog is now $800 due to fees paid to the state just to keep their dogs intact to breed. I'd rather support responsible, warranted bred pups and pay an extra $300 to $400. Not to mention, I can tell you first hand from some years of training dogs for gun dogs, there is a huge difference in trainability between well bred and backyard bred dogs. Backyard bred dogs that end up at the kennels generally cost people twice as much money and twice as much time and they end up with half the dog. Even then, some dogs never make it more than just a house dog.
I have known of well bred dogs for a measly $500-$600 with a 27 month health guarantee. These are from legitimate hunting dogs and pedigrees. Many people claim "hunting" dogs when they backyard breed. Well heck, my American bulldog will go out and get a duck hunting, but would she make a "meat" dog? Hell no. I once got an English bulldog to retrieve a duck. So just because a BY bred lab gets a duck, doesn't make him a hunting dog.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: DoubleB20]
#663934
04/08/09 07:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 237
EricW
Woodsman
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Woodsman
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Quote:
I have to agree with Sniper John. There are such things as high end back yard breeders. One would be hard pressed to find better pedigreed dogs than I have, but I'm not a big fancy kennel. Health tests done, careful selection of dogs, I love dogs and puppies are fun! I've seen some of the biggest kennels in the country, I've met more careful and considerate high end back yard breeders. The big name kennels are in it for the money, nothing wrong with that, but a big name doesn't always mean best pedigrees or highest quality dogs. But, to each his own. The initial price is a drop in the bucket compared to the time and effort required to get your dog where you want it to be. A quality, top shelf pedigreed puppy doesn't have to come from big name kennel.
There is a difference between backyard bred dog and responsible breeding. I think when you are talking about high end backyard bred dogs, you are talking about responsible breeding. I don't have kennels or a business, but if I bred my dogs, it does not constitute backyard bred. The problem with the poll is there isn't enough or the right options. None of my dogs came from high end kennels, but none of them were backyard bred either.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: EricW]
#663935
04/08/09 04:51 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166
westtexaswatkins
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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I agree with you Eric but if you put backyard bred on this forum, you will be considered to have a less than quality dog. The things you mentioned about responsible breeding don't matter to most on this Hunting Dog forum, I have found that out very quickly. Watch out here comes Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663936
04/08/09 04:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690
FETCH_UP
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Quote:
I agree with you Eric but if you put backyard bred on this forum, you will be considered to have a less than quality dog. The things you mentioned about responsible breeding don't matter to most on this Hunting Dog forum, I have found that out very quickly. Watch out here comes Angie
Not necessarily. Lots of individuals have high quality bred dogs, health clearances and good to great bloodlines. THEY are NOT backyard breeders! A backyard breeder....ugh im not even going to go into it.... 
HRCH ACE MH Triple D Duck Club
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs *DELETED*
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663937
04/09/09 03:55 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663938
04/09/09 06:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,984
Sniper John
gumshoe
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I'm going to post up rule #6 and #7 as a reminder to everyone. Though not every part of those apply to this thread, it could easily take a wrong turn. Lots of good points being made. Lets just keep comments in respect to each persons view. Cool? 6. We promote a friendly atmosphere for hunters to exchange ideas. Differences of opinions are welcome and are an important part of this format. We do not, however, tolerate those that try to start an argument with every post. If you are looking to agitate people, simply to get a response or if you are a troller, this is not the place for you. Warnings are issued and if the behavior continues, administrators will revoke posting privileges. 7. No personal attacks – if you disagree with someone, state your case intelligently and back it up with facts. You will be warned once. If the behavior continues, you will be banned from the forum for at least a month and possibly permanently. DO NOT HARASS PEOPLE WITH EMAIL OR VIA PM WHEN YOU HAVE A DISAGREEMENT ON THE FORUM.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663939
04/09/09 03:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673
kbobbjr
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Quote:
The things you mentioned about responsible breeding don't matter to most on this Hunting Dog forum, I have found that out very quickly.
You would be totally incorrect sir. If you read through all the posts on this subject many of us harp on the importance of responsible breeding. Are you a responsible breeder? Are you going to test (hips/eyes/elbows/CNM/EIC/PRA)the sire and dam before breeding for this upcoming litter of pups you're talking about whelping?
Also, for clarification sake, in my mind a backyard breeder isn't a responsible breeder and a responsible breeder isn't a backyard breeder no matter where the breeding takes place.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663940
04/09/09 04:49 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166
westtexaswatkins
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The only problem I have is If I do everything that all the high end breeders want me too, then I will be one of them, and my prices would be like theirs. If everyone like me with quality dogs not highend kennel dogs quits and never breed a dog again, there would be a monopoly for them (highend breeders). Their prices would go up and you would have to pay several thousand dollars for a labrador retriever. I can assure you my dogs are well taken care of(and healthy), not only by my family but by our vet. He sees no problem with breeding. If it comes down too it, a potential buyer (not gonna bother him to please the nay sayers on here) could contact him.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663941
04/09/09 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
The things you mentioned about responsible breeding don't matter to most on this Hunting Dog forum, I have found that out very quickly.
You would be totally incorrect sir. If you read through all the posts on this subject many of us harp on the importance of responsible breeding. Are you a responsible breeder? Are you going to test (hips/eyes/elbows/CNM/EIC/PRA)the sire and dam before breeding for this upcoming litter of pups you're talking about whelping?
Also, for clarification sake, in my mind a backyard breeder isn't a responsible breeder and a responsible breeder isn't a backyard breeder no matter where the breeding takes place.
Question for ya kbobb...so are you saying that someone who has taken the time to OFA their dog in all manners, paid to have their dog bred or bred to another of their own with the same qualifications, has great bloodlines and is a titled dog, whether it be hunt test or field trials, is not a responsible breeder just because they dont do it for a living and dont have a big kennel set up???
HRCH ACE MH Triple D Duck Club
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663942
04/09/09 06:01 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,594
First_Chance
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Quote:
The only problem I have is If I do everything that all the high end breeders want me too, then I will be one of them, and my prices would be like theirs. If everyone like me with quality dogs not highend kennel dogs quits and never breed a dog again, there would be a monopoly for them (highend breeders). Their prices would go up and you would have to pay several thousand dollars for a labrador retriever. I can assure you my dogs are well taken care of(and healthy), not only by my family but by our vet. He sees no problem with breeding. If it comes down too it, a potential buyer (not gonna bother him to please the nay sayers on here) could contact him.
No, you would be a "responsible breeder" and could guarantee the health of your dogs. You seem to be looking at this wrong, IMO. I'm sure you take care of your dogs and they are "healthy" by your standards.
I’m going to give this one more shot… I’m not a breeder and I am by no means an expert so I can’t explain what a true breeder like Angie or others ("nay-sayers" as you have called them) could, but what all of these guys are trying to get across to you is, specifically, is how do you know you have good "healthy", "quality" dogs (throughout their bloodlines)?? Because your vet says so?? You can ONLY know that by testing, xraying them and researching their backgrounds, etc. and if you can't be certain that you will not be passing down genetic issues from untested dogs, you probably shouldn't be bredding them.
Labs (the breed) have had a serious influx of genetic issues over the last few decades because of several factors. One major issue, is their popularity in general has increased the ability for people to be able to breed them and make money, dogs that are not necessarily genetically sound have been bred over and over and those undesirable genes have been spread throughout the breed. Whatever term you want to use when talking about breeders, it's reaally all just semantics, but TRUE purists of the breed, “responsible breeders”, if you will, recognize the importance of not allowing this type of uncontrolled (untested) breeding to propagate. It causes inferior dogs to be introduced and reintroduced thus magnifying the effects to the gene pool for years to come. What you obviously consider harmless, providing a quality "untested" dog to someone that wants one at a reasonable price, is considered a big NO-NO in the gundog community where people that consider the genetic soundness of the dogs they train, breed and title to be first and foremost. Really, it's not about being "high end" vs "backyard" or whatever and to put it bluntly, they just understand and care a whole lot more about the dogs (Labs, THE BREED) than you do and that is why you are experiencing what a lot of us understand to be “PASSION” about this subject. It's the bigger picture, much bigger that they are talking about.
I realize you got piled on, and probably shouldn't have, but you’ll never win the argument around here and you should expect a caustic reaction for what is considered by some as “irresponsibility” towards a outstanding breed of dog.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#663943
04/09/09 06:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
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FETCH_UP
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Nicely said FC!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#663944
04/09/09 08:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673
kbobbjr
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The things you mentioned about responsible breeding don't matter to most on this Hunting Dog forum, I have found that out very quickly.
You would be totally incorrect sir. If you read through all the posts on this subject many of us harp on the importance of responsible breeding. Are you a responsible breeder? Are you going to test (hips/eyes/elbows/CNM/EIC/PRA)the sire and dam before breeding for this upcoming litter of pups you're talking about whelping?
Also, for clarification sake, in my mind a backyard breeder isn't a responsible breeder and a responsible breeder isn't a backyard breeder no matter where the breeding takes place.
Question for ya kbobb...so are you saying that someone who has taken the time to OFA their dog in all manners, paid to have their dog bred or bred to another of their own with the same qualifications, has great bloodlines and is a titled dog, whether it be hunt test or field trials, is not a responsible breeder just because they dont do it for a living and dont have a big kennel set up???
NOOO!!!  That is not what I'm saying. If a person does what you stated then, in my opinion, they are a very responsible breeder. Maybe this will clear it up.
Backyard Breeder - anyone, individual or established kennel (could also be called a puppy mill), that doesn't breed for the purpose of bettering the breed. Do not perform health checks/certs. Breeds dogs just to breed them and make a little money on the side.
Responsible Breeder - anyone, individual or established kennel, that does breed for the purpose of bettering the breed. Do perform health checks/certs. They do it to provide quality dogs to those of us who do not breed dogs. They want to see the breed improve, thrive and succeed.
Does that make sense or did I confuse you more?
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#663945
04/09/09 08:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673
kbobbjr
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Quote:
.... a outstanding breed of dog.
FC, did you just say something nice about Labs???
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663946
04/09/09 08:13 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,594
First_Chance
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Quote:
Quote:
.... a outstanding breed of dog.
FC, did you just say something nice about
Labs???
weak moment!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663947
04/09/09 08:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 921
Zack
Tracker
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 921 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The things you mentioned about responsible breeding don't matter to most on this Hunting Dog forum, I have found that out very quickly.
You would be totally incorrect sir. If you read through all the posts on this subject many of us harp on the importance of responsible breeding. Are you a responsible breeder? Are you going to test (hips/eyes/elbows/CNM/EIC/PRA)the sire and dam before breeding for this upcoming litter of pups you're talking about whelping?
Also, for clarification sake, in my mind a backyard breeder isn't a responsible breeder and a responsible breeder isn't a backyard breeder no matter where the breeding takes place.
Question for ya kbobb...so are you saying that someone who has taken the time to OFA their dog in all manners, paid to have their dog bred or bred to another of their own with the same qualifications, has great bloodlines and is a titled dog, whether it be hunt test or field trials, is not a responsible breeder just because they dont do it for a living and dont have a big kennel set up???
NOOO!!! That is not what I'm saying. If a person does what you stated then, in my opinion, they are a very responsible breeder. Maybe this will clear it up.
Backyard Breeder - anyone, individual or established kennel (could also be called a puppy mill), that doesn't breed for the purpose of bettering the breed. Do not perform health checks/certs. Breeds dogs just to breed them and make a little money on the side.
Responsible Breeder - anyone, individual or established kennel, that does breed for the purpose of bettering the breed. Do perform health checks/certs. They do it to provide quality dogs to those of us who do not breed dogs. They want to see the breed improve, thrive and succeed.
Does that make sense or did I confuse you more?
There is a middle ground of people who believe they are doing the right thing but are in fact irresponsible. Ask most people why they want to breed their lab and they will give you a list of the characteristics of 99% of the labs out there. Very few people are exposed to enough dog work to know when they are seeing very good dog work.
I believe these guys on this board believe they are doing a good thing. I just believe that they are uniformed.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Zack]
#663948
04/09/09 08:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673
kbobbjr
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Quote:
There is a middle ground of people who believe they are doing the right thing but are in fact irresponsible. Ask most people why they want to breed their lab and they will give you a list of the characteristics of 99% of the labs out there. Very few people are exposed to enough dog work to know when they are seeing very good dog work.
I agree. That's what prompted my post "What makes a great hunting lab".
Quote:
I believe these guys on this board believe they are doing a good thing. I just believe that they are uniformed.
I couldn't agree more.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#663949
04/09/09 08:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
.... a outstanding breed of dog.
FC, did you just say something nice about
Labs???
weak moment!
thats it, to the wall of shame you go 
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663954
04/09/09 09:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,264
fowlplayr
Shenanigans Scorecard keeper
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Shenanigans Scorecard keeper
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[quote So you think your're breeding "fine dogs" cause no one has complained???? If someone should complain the "barn door was shut after the horses got out"... Not being very proactive as a breeder. You do want to breed the healthiest dog you can correct??? Then you need to educate yourself on how to do that. You need to actually know the breed both the good and the bad and try to prevent the bad. Good breeders do that. I'm not breeding the next FC,,, or the next SRS champion... I'm breeding a physically sound dog that any amatuer can train... That dog can live in their home, play with their baby and be good looking... Why is breeding a physically sound dog that is intelligent and good looking such a mystery??? Angie
I have one question for you Angie. If you are so confident that you are in fact breeding the healthiest dogs possible, then why do you charge $400 more for a pup with a guarantee, from the same litter? If you are so confident about your stock, why not charge the same price for a pup and include the guarantee instead of charging extra for it???
I fully understand that all the tests in the world does not ensure that some sort of health problem may or may not arise in the future, but that seems like a double-standard to me.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: fowlplayr]
#663955
04/09/09 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
THF Celebrity
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the testing she does cost money, gotta recoup that cost...
and for the record I dont drink the Vanilla Rapsberry Frapochino Latte, its the Vanilla Rapsberry Frapochino Latte with soy milk...big difference
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#663957
04/09/09 11:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673
kbobbjr
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Quote:
the testing she does cost money, gotta recoup that cost...
and for the record I dont drink the Vanilla Rapsberry Frapochino Latte, its the Vanilla Rapsberry Frapochino Latte with soy milk...big difference
I bet Jason Alexander's character in Brad Paisley's video "I'm cooler online" is your twin brother!  
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: fowlplayr]
#663958
04/10/09 12:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
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Quote:
[quote
So you think your're breeding "fine dogs" cause no one has complained????
If someone should complain the "barn door was shut after the horses got out"...
Not being very proactive as a breeder.
You do want to breed the healthiest dog you can correct??? Then you need to educate yourself on how to do that. You need to actually know the breed both the good and the bad and try to prevent the bad. Good breeders do that.
I'm not breeding the next FC,,, or the next SRS champion...
I'm breeding a physically sound dog that any amatuer can train... That dog can live in their home, play with their baby and be good looking...
Why is breeding a physically sound dog that is intelligent and good looking such a mystery???
Angie
I have one question for you Angie. If you are so confident that you are in fact breeding the healthiest dogs possible, then why do you charge $400 more for a pup with a guarantee, from the same litter? If you are so confident about your stock, why not charge the same price for a pup and include the guarantee instead of charging extra for it???
I fully understand that all the tests in the world does not ensure that some sort of health problem may or may not arise in the future, but that seems like a double-standard to me.
Because people use guarantees like health insurance policy's. Which a guarantee is not.
If you want me to be reasponsible for poly-sonomal genetic flaws when I have no control of that dog once it leaves my kennel then you will have to pay for it....
How do I know you fed the dog properly? How do I know you didn't take it jogging everyday since it was 5 months?? Proper care along with good genetics is what makes a healthy dog. And I can't control how you raised the dog.
How can anyone guarantee a animal that is out their care for 27 months? The whole concept is stupid and was designed to sell puppies. People think that if a litter comes with a guarantee then they're free in clear. The puppy buyer no longer feels it needs to research the litter since they feel that a guarantee is a good house keeping seal of approval. The breeder must have done their homework since the breeder sells with a guarantee.
That's hardly the case... Also most guarantees make you return the puppy before getting a refund or giving a new puppy. Like that's going to happen? So those poor puppy owners really had no guarantee at all....
Doing genetic testing and offering a guarantee are 2 totally different things and are hardly a double standard.
Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663959
04/10/09 12:16 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
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Quote:
The only problem I have is If I do everything that all the high end breeders want me too, then I will be one of them, and my prices would be like theirs. If everyone like me with quality dogs not highend kennel dogs quits and never breed a dog again, there would be a monopoly for them (highend breeders). Their prices would go up and you would have to pay several thousand dollars for a labrador retriever. I can assure you my dogs are well taken care of(and healthy), not only by my family but by our vet. He sees no problem with breeding. If it comes down too it, a potential buyer (not gonna bother him to please the nay sayers on here) could contact him.
You're "rationalizing" and trying to "justify" your breeding practices. You can't...
If you start selling puppies that later develope cataracts, hip displasia, along many other problems then now YOUR cheap puppies will cost a fortune to your poor unsuspecting clients.
A total hip replacement on a dog is close to $5000. That's one expensive puppy.
All the genetic testing cost around $600. That's just once for the life of the dog. Take that back, eyes need to be recerfed every year but it's cheap. $25 at a health clinic. Pretty small investment considering how many litters a dog/bitch can have. You re-coup that in no time...
Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663960
04/10/09 12:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
Quote:
the testing she does cost money, gotta recoup that cost...
and for the record I dont drink the Vanilla Rapsberry Frapochino Latte, its the Vanilla Rapsberry Frapochino Latte with soy milk...big difference
I bet Jason Alexander's character in Brad Paisley's video "I'm cooler online" is your twin brother!
I could see myself as a George...I already celebrate Festivus
a Festivus for the rest of us
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663961
04/10/09 12:26 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166
westtexaswatkins
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166 |
All the genetic testing cost around $600. That's just once for the life of the dog. Take that back, eyes need to be recerfed every year but it's cheap. $25 at a health clinic. Pretty small investment considering how many litters a dog/bitch can have. You re-coup that in no time...
Angie
I run no puppy mill, my dog will probably only have one litter. I keep dogs as pets and to hunt, not run a life time breeding operation. I have nothing to rationalize to you. I do what I do and you do what you do. It is very obvious that neither one of us will change the others mind.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663962
04/10/09 03:47 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429 |
Quote:
I run no puppy mill, my dog will probably only have one litter. I keep dogs as pets and to hunt, not run a life time breeding operation. I have nothing to rationalize to you. I do what I do and you do what you do. It is very obvious that neither one of us will change the others mind.
No one said you ran a puppy mill... But even one puppy with a genetic defect will cost your puppy client a ton of money.
You do need to change your breeding practices.. You are a breeder and you have bred your dog more then once me thinks and more then likely will again. Otherwise you wouldn't be so vocal about your breeding practices and so defensive.
No breeding is so special or so wonderful that it is above the most basic of genetic health screenings.
So stop avoiding and dodging what everyone is telling you.
No more excuses...
Keeping your cost down on the puppies you sell is hardly an excuse for not doing clearances...
Sorry...
Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663963
04/10/09 03:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104 |
Quote:
Quote:
The only problem I have is If I do everything that all the high end breeders want me too, then I will be one of them, and my prices would be like theirs. If everyone like me with quality dogs not highend kennel dogs quits and never breed a dog again, there would be a monopoly for them (highend breeders). Their prices would go up and you would have to pay several thousand dollars for a labrador retriever. I can assure you my dogs are well taken care of(and healthy), not only by my family but by our vet. He sees no problem with breeding. If it comes down too it, a potential buyer (not gonna bother him to please the nay sayers on here) could contact him.
You're "rationalizing" and trying to "justify" your breeding practices. You can't...
If you start selling puppies that later develope cataracts, hip displasia, along many other problems then now YOUR cheap puppies will cost a fortune to your poor unsuspecting clients.
A total hip replacement on a dog is close to $5000. That's one expensive puppy.
All the genetic testing cost around $600. That's just once for the life of the dog. Take that back, eyes need to be recerfed every year but it's cheap. $25 at a health clinic. Pretty small investment considering how many litters a dog/bitch can have. You re-coup that in no time...
Angie
first off a dog is a dog....... i will buy ur non high end dogs and i will keep on lovin em.. as for a 5000 dollar hip replacement.... sry but ill have to let the dog go.... as for payin over 500 for a pup.... sorry ill have to pass on that payin btwn 200-400 is more my cup of tea. i dont think u need all this special stuff for a dog unless u really plan on making a huge investment on the dog! if ur the avg joe that just wants a dog for company and a hunting partner i see absolutely no need to go spending all that money. just my .02
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#663964
04/10/09 04:15 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The only problem I have is If I do everything that all the high end breeders want me too, then I will be one of them, and my prices would be like theirs. If everyone like me with quality dogs not highend kennel dogs quits and never breed a dog again, there would be a monopoly for them (highend breeders). Their prices would go up and you would have to pay several thousand dollars for a labrador retriever. I can assure you my dogs are well taken care of(and healthy), not only by my family but by our vet. He sees no problem with breeding. If it comes down too it, a potential buyer (not gonna bother him to please the nay sayers on here) could contact him.
You're "rationalizing" and trying to "justify" your breeding practices. You can't...
If you start selling puppies that later develope cataracts, hip displasia, along many other problems then now YOUR cheap puppies will cost a fortune to your poor unsuspecting clients.
A total hip replacement on a dog is close to $5000. That's one expensive puppy.
All the genetic testing cost around $600. That's just once for the life of the dog. Take that back, eyes need to be recerfed every year but it's cheap. $25 at a health clinic. Pretty small investment considering how many litters a dog/bitch can have. You re-coup that in no time...
Angie
first off a dog is a dog....... i will buy ur non high end dogs and i will keep on lovin em.. as for a 5000 dollar hip replacement.... sry but ill have to let the dog go.... as for payin over 500 for a pup.... sorry ill have to pass on that payin btwn 200-400 is more my cup of tea. i dont think u need all this special stuff for a dog unless u really plan on making a huge investment on the dog! if ur the avg joe that just wants a dog for company and a hunting partner i see absolutely no need to go spending all that money. just my .02
The humane society would really love you to come get a lab from them next time....
Most people don't have your attitude. A dog to them is a member of the family.
But I totally respect your opinion and I'm glad you're comfortable with such a casual relationship with your dogs..
If it's broke,,, shoot it...
That's o.k. I'm a farm girl and totally understand...
Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663965
04/10/09 04:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690
FETCH_UP
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690 |
Still going, pretty impressive lol
HRCH ACE MH Triple D Duck Club
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#663966
04/10/09 09:06 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 23,924
TreeBass
Old Weller
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Old Weller
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 23,924 |
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: TreeBass]
#663967
04/10/09 11:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35,566
Guy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35,566 |
So who are the 3 that selected Walmart Parking Lot? I’m guessing first_ chance, GR, and stinkbelly.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Guy]
#663968
04/10/09 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646 |
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#663969
04/11/09 10:47 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166
westtexaswatkins
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166 |
Sorry, I should not have just singled out Walmart, will do better next time...
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663970
04/12/09 12:15 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166
westtexaswatkins
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166 |
Quote:
You do need to change your breeding practices.. You are a breeder and you have bred your dog more then once me thinks and more then likely will again. Otherwise you wouldn't be so vocal about your breeding practices and so defensive.
No breeding is so special or so wonderful that it is above the most basic of genetic health screenings.
So stop avoiding and dodging what everyone is telling you.
No more excuses...
Keeping your cost down on the puppies you sell is hardly an excuse for not doing clearances...
Sorry...
Angie
OKAY, OKAY, I'll get her checked out, once you send me the $600 check to pay for it. 
And no wrong again, "me thinks" she has never been bred until now, and will more than likely not breed her again, but then again who knows. That is for me too decide, NOT you!!! 
This has got to be some kind of record thread for the Gun Dog section.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663971
04/30/09 09:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156
Inky Doc
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156 |
Just stumbled on this thread and WOW, what a fun read. I have a few points to add, just for fun.
1- "me thinks" is one word and methinks you should use spellcheck or an online dictionary.
2- Methinks anyone can sell/breed a dog however they want if it is legal. Its a damn dog, it isn't going to college and it won't cure cancer.
3- Methinks you are a self-righteous person if selling a puppy because two mutts bumped uglies makes you angry.
4- Methinks testing dogs for hydroherpesyphylaids is funny. Thanks, I needed a laugh.
5- Methinks the phrase "high-end kennel" is a creative euphemism for "really expensive place that even the smartest dogs will poop and sleep in the same little cage." I am not sure I will have to check my OED on that one.
6- The 4 dogs I have owned in my life have taught me well.
A. Beagle, "Krinkle"- three years old and dead in backyard, I was an irresponsible dead dog owner and did not get a "dogtopsy." It did not die of neglect, I assure you of that.
B. Black lab, "Jake"- most recent pet. He was hit by a Suburban, broke all front teeth; tail cut off when steel door closed unexpectedly (I assume unexpectedly otherwise I methinks the dog would have moved his tail). He was the only possession other than a washer and dryer to survive an apartment fire. For some reason he became skittish after that. Go figure! He was thrown from back of an Isuzu Rodeo at 60+mph during a head-on collision. I went to the hospital, he went to my parents' house for the weekend. He once ate a 2 pound channel catfish alive (I knew he would fetch a bird, but a fish?). He didn't seem to have an upset stomach, but did appear confused afterwards. He could count to ten, I would old up my fingers and say "count" and he would bark the corresponding number of barks. He may have had 100 broken legs and many times his eyes must have been gouged out, OR my nieces and nephews were just real good at playing "Doggy Doctor" with ACE bandages He died at the vet's office due to injection of Ketamine and the other drug that which name escapes my me presently (Pento-barbitol???). He was just shy of 18 years old.
C. Poodle, "Oldie"- very apropos name as he was a "family member" before I was. I don't know what happened to him, but I hope it hurt real bad!
D. Mutt, "Honey"- was about 10 pounds and could out run a whippet. The perfect companion for a young boy, she could play fetch, run homemade "obstacle courses," and seemed even to like to be involved when all my friends and I were having a dirt clod fight. Died around 13 years old from being fed to much human food at Thanksgiving. And, no, I did not feed her any.
The hapless, worthless beagle was from a "high-end kennel" and I should have taken the dog back instead of burying her in the backyard. The others were bought at one of those Walmart/Target/Sonic Drive-Thru/Bubba-Gump/We-live-on-a-dirt-road-because-we-can't-afford-pavement/Humane Society type places. By the way... Humane Society is two lies in one.
westtexaswatkins, Do you have another "Jake"? If so, can you mail him to me for twelve bucks?
I think I am going to go use my desktop publisher to make a fine pedigree for the $2000 chocolate lab, err... field mouse, that just walked into my garage.
Addendum: If you have a $5000 lease, a $4000 blind, a $3000 gun, a $2000 dog, a $1000 rangefinder, a $500 pair of boots, a $300 Duracoat and a $100 box of ammo are you still a hunter????
Methinks not.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#663972
04/30/09 11:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 288
GRR80
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 288 |
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: GRR80]
#663973
04/30/09 04:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 157
rb85cj7
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 157 |
wow, what a well thought out argument.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#663974
04/30/09 04:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673
kbobbjr
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673 |
Quote:
Just stumbled on this thread and WOW, what a fun read. I have a few points to add, just for fun.
1- "me thinks" is one word and methinks you should use spellcheck or an online dictionary.
2- Methinks anyone can sell/breed a dog however they want if it is legal. Its a damn dog, it isn't going to college and it won't cure cancer.
3- Methinks you are a self-righteous person if selling a puppy because two mutts bumped uglies makes you angry.
4- Methinks testing dogs for hydroherpesyphylaids is funny. Thanks, I needed a laugh.
5- Methinks the phrase "high-end kennel" is a creative euphemism for "really expensive place that even the smartest dogs will poop and sleep in the same little cage." I am not sure I will have to check my OED on that one.
6- The 4 dogs I have owned in my life have taught me well.
A. Beagle, "Krinkle"- three years old and dead in backyard, I was an irresponsible dead dog owner and did not get a "dogtopsy." It did not die of neglect, I assure you of that.
B. Black lab, "Jake"- most recent pet. He was hit by a Suburban, broke all front teeth; tail cut off when steel door closed unexpectedly (I assume unexpectedly otherwise I methinks the dog would have moved his tail). He was the only possession other than a washer and dryer to survive an apartment fire. For some reason he became skittish after that. Go figure! He was thrown from back of an Isuzu Rodeo at 60+mph during a head-on collision. I went to the hospital, he went to my parents' house for the weekend. He once ate a 2 pound channel catfish alive (I knew he would fetch a bird, but a fish?). He didn't seem to have an upset stomach, but did appear confused afterwards. He could count to ten, I would old up my fingers and say "count" and he would bark the corresponding number of barks. He may have had 100 broken legs and many times his eyes must have been gouged out, OR my nieces and nephews were just real good at playing "Doggy Doctor" with ACE bandages He died at the vet's office due to injection of Ketamine and the other drug that which name escapes my me presently (Pento-barbitol???). He was just shy of 18 years old.
C. Poodle, "Oldie"- very apropos name as he was a "family member" before I was. I don't know what happened to him, but I hope it hurt real bad!
D. Mutt, "Honey"- was about 10 pounds and could out run a whippet. The perfect companion for a young boy, she could play fetch, run homemade "obstacle courses," and seemed even to like to be involved when all my friends and I were having a dirt clod fight. Died around 13 years old from being fed to much human food at Thanksgiving. And, no, I did not feed her any.
The hapless, worthless beagle was from a "high-end kennel" and I should have taken the dog back instead of burying her in the backyard. The others were bought at one of those Walmart/Target/Sonic Drive-Thru/Bubba-Gump/We-live-on-a-dirt-road-because-we-can't-afford-pavement/Humane Society type places. By the way... Humane Society is two lies in one.
westtexaswatkins, Do you have another "Jake"? If so, can you mail him to me for twelve bucks?
I think I am going to go use my desktop publisher to make a fine pedigree for the $2000 chocolate lab, err... field mouse, that just walked into my garage.
Addendum: If you have a $5000 lease, a $4000 blind, a $3000 gun, a $2000 dog, a $1000 rangefinder, a $500 pair of boots, a $300 Duracoat and a $100 box of ammo are you still a hunter????
Methinks not.
Those in glass houses should not cast stones.....
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#663975
04/30/09 04:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 921
Zack
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 921 |
Quote:
Just stumbled on this thread and WOW, what a fun read. I have a few points to add, just for fun.
1- "me thinks" is one word and methinks you should use spellcheck or an online dictionary.
2- Methinks anyone can sell/breed a dog however they want if it is legal. Its a damn dog, it isn't going to college and it won't cure cancer.
3- Methinks you are a self-righteous person if selling a puppy because two mutts bumped uglies makes you angry.
4- Methinks testing dogs for hydroherpesyphylaids is funny. Thanks, I needed a laugh.
5- Methinks the phrase "high-end kennel" is a creative euphemism for "really expensive place that even the smartest dogs will poop and sleep in the same little cage." I am not sure I will have to check my OED on that one.
6- The 4 dogs I have owned in my life have taught me well.
A. Beagle, "Krinkle"- three years old and dead in backyard, I was an irresponsible dead dog owner and did not get a "dogtopsy." It did not die of neglect, I assure you of that.
B. Black lab, "Jake"- most recent pet. He was hit by a Suburban, broke all front teeth; tail cut off when steel door closed unexpectedly (I assume unexpectedly otherwise I methinks the dog would have moved his tail). He was the only possession other than a washer and dryer to survive an apartment fire. For some reason he became skittish after that. Go figure! He was thrown from back of an Isuzu Rodeo at 60+mph during a head-on collision. I went to the hospital, he went to my parents' house for the weekend. He once ate a 2 pound channel catfish alive (I knew he would fetch a bird, but a fish?). He didn't seem to have an upset stomach, but did appear confused afterwards. He could count to ten, I would old up my fingers and say "count" and he would bark the corresponding number of barks. He may have had 100 broken legs and many times his eyes must have been gouged out, OR my nieces and nephews were just real good at playing "Doggy Doctor" with ACE bandages He died at the vet's office due to injection of Ketamine and the other drug that which name escapes my me presently (Pento-barbitol???). He was just shy of 18 years old.
C. Poodle, "Oldie"- very apropos name as he was a "family member" before I was. I don't know what happened to him, but I hope it hurt real bad!
D. Mutt, "Honey"- was about 10 pounds and could out run a whippet. The perfect companion for a young boy, she could play fetch, run homemade "obstacle courses," and seemed even to like to be involved when all my friends and I were having a dirt clod fight. Died around 13 years old from being fed to much human food at Thanksgiving. And, no, I did not feed her any.
The hapless, worthless beagle was from a "high-end kennel" and I should have taken the dog back instead of burying her in the backyard. The others were bought at one of those Walmart/Target/Sonic Drive-Thru/Bubba-Gump/We-live-on-a-dirt-road-because-we-can't-afford-pavement/Humane Society type places. By the way... Humane Society is two lies in one.
westtexaswatkins, Do you have another "Jake"? If so, can you mail him to me for twelve bucks?
I think I am going to go use my desktop publisher to make a fine pedigree for the $2000 chocolate lab, err... field mouse, that just walked into my garage.
Addendum: If you have a $5000 lease, a $4000 blind, a $3000 gun, a $2000 dog, a $1000 rangefinder, a $500 pair of boots, a $300 Duracoat and a $100 box of ammo are you still a hunter????
Methinks not.
You remind me of this guy that I know that thinks he is really witty. He is not.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Zack]
#663976
04/30/09 04:33 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,594
First_Chance
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,594 |
Quote:
You remind me of this guy that I know that thinks he is really witty. He is not.
<chuckle> *snort*
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#663977
04/30/09 05:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690
FETCH_UP
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690 |
Cant believe this thing came back to life! lol
HRCH ACE MH Triple D Duck Club
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#663978
04/30/09 06:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,661
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,661 |
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Zack]
#663979
04/30/09 06:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156
Inky Doc
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156 |
Quote:
Quote:
Just stumbled on this thread and WOW, what a fun read. I have a few points to add, just for fun.
1- "me thinks" is one word and methinks you should use spellcheck or an online dictionary.
2- Methinks anyone can sell/breed a dog however they want if it is legal. Its a damn dog, it isn't going to college and it won't cure cancer.
3- Methinks you are a self-righteous person if selling a puppy because two mutts bumped uglies makes you angry.
4- Methinks testing dogs for hydroherpesyphylaids is funny. Thanks, I needed a laugh.
5- Methinks the phrase "high-end kennel" is a creative euphemism for "really expensive place that even the smartest dogs will poop and sleep in the same little cage." I am not sure I will have to check my OED on that one.
6- The 4 dogs I have owned in my life have taught me well.
A. Beagle, "Krinkle"- three years old and dead in backyard, I was an irresponsible dead dog owner and did not get a "dogtopsy." It did not die of neglect, I assure you of that.
B. Black lab, "Jake"- most recent pet. He was hit by a Suburban, broke all front teeth; tail cut off when steel door closed unexpectedly (I assume unexpectedly otherwise I methinks the dog would have moved his tail). He was the only possession other than a washer and dryer to survive an apartment fire. For some reason he became skittish after that. Go figure! He was thrown from back of an Isuzu Rodeo at 60+mph during a head-on collision. I went to the hospital, he went to my parents' house for the weekend. He once ate a 2 pound channel catfish alive (I knew he would fetch a bird, but a fish?). He didn't seem to have an upset stomach, but did appear confused afterwards. He could count to ten, I would old up my fingers and say "count" and he would bark the corresponding number of barks. He may have had 100 broken legs and many times his eyes must have been gouged out, OR my nieces and nephews were just real good at playing "Doggy Doctor" with ACE bandages He died at the vet's office due to injection of Ketamine and the other drug that which name escapes my me presently (Pento-barbitol???). He was just shy of 18 years old.
C. Poodle, "Oldie"- very apropos name as he was a "family member" before I was. I don't know what happened to him, but I hope it hurt real bad!
D. Mutt, "Honey"- was about 10 pounds and could out run a whippet. The perfect companion for a young boy, she could play fetch, run homemade "obstacle courses," and seemed even to like to be involved when all my friends and I were having a dirt clod fight. Died around 13 years old from being fed to much human food at Thanksgiving. And, no, I did not feed her any.
The hapless, worthless beagle was from a "high-end kennel" and I should have taken the dog back instead of burying her in the backyard. The others were bought at one of those Walmart/Target/Sonic Drive-Thru/Bubba-Gump/We-live-on-a-dirt-road-because-we-can't-afford-pavement/Humane Society type places. By the way... Humane Society is two lies in one.
westtexaswatkins, Do you have another "Jake"? If so, can you mail him to me for twelve bucks?
I think I am going to go use my desktop publisher to make a fine pedigree for the $2000 chocolate lab, err... field mouse, that just walked into my garage.
Addendum: If you have a $5000 lease, a $4000 blind, a $3000 gun, a $2000 dog, a $1000 rangefinder, a $500 pair of boots, a $300 Duracoat and a $100 box of ammo are you still a hunter????
Methinks not.
You remind me of this guy that I know that thinks he is really witty. He is not.
The feeling is reciprocated. Funny, huh?
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#663980
05/01/09 12:28 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166
westtexaswatkins
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166 |
Hey Grey, welcome to the thread, you missed some good times earlier. Thanks for bringing it back to life.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663981
05/01/09 01:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104 |
oo what a thread... so much humunization of dogs here its unreal...... i agree with u there grey. i have yet to see my dogs suffer from some crazy health problem that couldve been avoided if id paid a few grand to get em checked for it... i mean unless the age of 12 and 13 is young for labs.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#663982
05/01/09 02:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156
Inky Doc
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156 |
I consider myself to be a very open minded individual, my employment insists on it, but I will never swallow for one second that a hunting dog NEEDS to cost that much money. It reminds me of the Bob Lee Swagger wannabes that say that I have to have H&K magazines in my M4. Sorry, I will stick with my issued ones. They cost about $10, not $60. Sheesh.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#663983
05/01/09 02:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
THF Celebrity
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I think you may have missed the point of the tread, but thats OK
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#663984
05/01/09 02:48 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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from what i could see it was all about health issues developing in "back yard dogs" what a load of B.S.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#663985
05/01/09 03:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156
Inky Doc
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Quote:
I think you may have missed the point of the tread, but thats OK
It depends on what you think the thread was about. Originally, the question was asked simply where do you buy your dogs. Secondarily, some people were upset (or however they felt) that people would buy from places other than "high-end kennels." Tertiarily (sorry, I had to), the thread was about the reasoning behind the $1500 dogs or the lack thereof. If I missed something, I am all ears.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#663986
05/01/09 04:13 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,661
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,661 |
Quote:
Quote:
I think you may have missed the point of the tread, but thats OK
It depends on what you think the thread was about. Originally, the question was asked simply where do you buy your dogs. Secondarily, some people were upset (or however they felt) that people would buy from places other than "high-end kennels." Tertiarily (sorry, I had to), the thread was about the reasoning behind the $1500 dogs or the lack thereof. If I missed something, I am all ears.
I don't think it was about the cost so much as being from a responseable breeder.... no different then horses.. you know how many horses have been line bred with traits that are scarey bad...lots just because a horse won one race or one big show doesn't me he is fit to breed..
Just like buying a car or truck do you really want to buy a car or truck that has the worst consumer rating out there and take the cahnce. I agree that alot of animals are getting way over priced for what they are... but a least buy from someone that knows what they are selling you
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#663987
05/01/09 04:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think you may have missed the point of the tread, but thats OK
It depends on what you think the thread was about. Originally, the question was asked simply where do you buy your dogs. Secondarily, some people were upset (or however they felt) that people would buy from places other than "high-end kennels." Tertiarily (sorry, I had to), the thread was about the reasoning behind the $1500 dogs or the lack thereof. If I missed something, I am all ears.
I don't think it was about the cost so much as being from a responseable breeder.... no different then horses.. you know how many horses have been line bred with traits that are scarey bad...lots just because a horse won one race or one big show doesn't me he is fit to breed..
Just like buying a car or truck do you really want to buy a car or truck that has the worst consumer rating out there and take the cahnce. I agree that alot of animals are getting way over priced for what they are... but a least buy from someone that knows what they are selling you
what he said
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#663988
05/01/09 04:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156
Inky Doc
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That was the exact point I covered in items 2 and 3 of my original post in this thread. I have no issues with what one does for a living, but please do not pass off what some of the folks here are doing as "responsible." By the same token I could make the argument that letting a child ride a bike without wearing full-body hockey pads, an orange strobe light and a siren is irresponsible.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#663989
05/01/09 04:43 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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gotta love the analogies!!!!!! +1 grey.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#663990
05/01/09 04:59 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,661
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,661 |
Quote:
That was the exact point I covered in items 2 and 3 of my original post in this thread. I have no issues with what one does for a living, but please do not pass off what some of the folks here are doing as "responsible." By the same token I could make the argument that letting a child ride a bike without wearing full-body hockey pads, an orange strobe light and a siren is irresponsible.
Or leaving you kid in the car on a 100 degree day why you got into walmart hopefully your more responsable then that... goes both ways.. I agree there are a few over the top people on the subject...but to an extent you have to agree with them...why wouldn't you want a little history on your animal??? Whould you go buy a baby tiger and not understand why when they grow up they just ate the niebhors kid...
free country(as of today) you can do as you wish... I hope you don't also get caught up shooting culls because they have bad genes and you don't want them breeding... personally I could care less where anyone gets there dog or how much they pay.... But i know any animal i going to have as part of my family for the long term I'm going to use every precaution to make sure it has the ability to live a long life with very few complications... IMO
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#663991
05/01/09 07:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 259
dabuckmaster24
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
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I paid $300 for my dog, and my dogs parents, grandparents and so on where all hips, elbows, and eyes checked. I wouldn't say she has the best pedigree, but it is sufficient enough to prove to me she should have good health and is trainable. My buddy paid $250 for his and her pedigree is awesome. Both of our puppies where supposed to sell for a higher price. His dog is awesome and my dog is on here way to becoming a great dog. Also I know a reputable breeder who has all his dogs checked for all the test above and all test where great, well he sold a pup, and guess what (hip problems). It just proves to you , that even with test you can have problems. That being said, if you do your homework and find a breeder that has done thered you are far less likely to have serious medical problems, and have a dog that is trainable to your standards. Just my .02. I promise you I will never pay $1000 for a dog. I can get a dog with close to the same pedigree, for far less. It might take more time, a different breeder, but I guarantee it will come along.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: dabuckmaster24]
#663992
05/01/09 07:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156
Inky Doc
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Quote:
I paid $300 for my dog, and my dogs parents, grandparents and so on where all hips, elbows, and eyes checked. I wouldn't say she has the best pedigree, but it is sufficient enough to prove to me she should have good health and is trainable. My buddy paid $250 for his and her pedigree is awesome. Both of our puppies where supposed to sell for a higher price. His dog is awesome and my dog is on here way to becoming a great dog. Also I know a reputable breeder who has all his dogs checked for all the test above and all test where great, well he sold a pup, and guess what (hip problems). It just proves to you , that even with test you can have problems. That being said, if you do your homework and find a breeder that has done thered you are far less likely to have serious medical problems, and have a dog that is trainable to your standards. Just my .02. I promise you I will never pay $1000 for a dog. I can get a dog with close to the same pedigree, for far less. It might take more time, a different breeder, but I guarantee it will come along.
Tru'dat!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#663993
05/01/09 09:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 581
Redboneman
Tracker
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No pup should cost $1500.00 that is insane even for the best blood in the business. However, there are a large amount of cull dogs and dogs with issues being put out by folks that don't take an interest in improving a breed. Some coon dogs go for about $350 a pup, that would make it $450 to your door. These are the very best blood lines that the Redbone breed has to offer though, I mean every pup is a lay up tree dog. This comes from careful breeding of healthy dogs that have those traits and natural instincts.
So, yeah no way in hell would I pay $1500.00 for a pup. But I am willing to pay a little cash for a dog that is predisposed to track well and tree hard. This kind of blood line comes from literally 20yrs or so of good selective breeding.
Don't get me wrong, some "backyard pups" put high dollar dogs to shame, but not consistently. Anyhow, I have said my piece, and I am coming from the stand point of an active hunter and one who is active in wanting to better a breed of dog.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#663994
05/01/09 04:19 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,594
First_Chance
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Quote:
Tertiarily (sorry, I had to)
had to what??? make up a word?
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#663995
05/01/09 04:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156
Inky Doc
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Quote:
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Tertiarily (sorry, I had to)
had to what??? make up a word?
You caught on fast
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#663996
05/01/09 04:43 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,594
First_Chance
Veteran Tracker
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Tertiarily (sorry, I had to)
had to what??? make up a word?
You caught on fast
too bad you haven't...
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#663997
05/01/09 05:04 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
Pro Tracker
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Tertiarily (sorry, I had to)
had to what??? make up a word?
You caught on fast
too bad you haven't...
LOL
Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663998
05/01/09 05:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Does someone have the lyrics to "White Trash Paradise" by Daryl Lee Rush that they could post up here??? I think it would be appropriate..... You guys are toooo much!! Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663999
05/01/09 07:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156
Inky Doc
Veteran Tracker
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I am proud to be Apache Indian
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#664000
05/01/09 11:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,127
LG
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2007
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Exactly what is EIC? And how does it effect your dog?
Thanks,
Lance
Never look a monkey in the eye
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: LG]
#664001
05/01/09 11:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
THF Celebrity
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read this.... part 2 part 1
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#664002
05/01/09 11:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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well i need to be arrested!!!!!! i got a cow dog for free the other day!!!!!! didnt check its pedigree or nothing!!!!!! prev owner said he was a full blood cur!! and thought it could probably work cattle pretty good since its parents did!!! i sure hope it doesnt develop any serious health problems!!!! that woudl kill me!!!! i guess i should go spend a few hundred and get it checked........ humanization b.s.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664003
05/01/09 11:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
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apples and oranges....
labs are a pimped out breed and the overall health of the entire breed has been hurt by people just throwing 2 dogs together and not caring about anything except making a buck. I would not buy a lab unless the parents had the health certs. labs are prone to certain health problems...
now on the other hand I would not have a problem buying an EP or a GSP that the dam and sire where not OFA'd, they are not as pimped out...or a cow dog for that matter
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#664004
05/01/09 11:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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alright well i guess ill end this for me and im sure there are plenty people on this forum that feel the same way. i will continue taking my chances as i have not heard to many sob stories about back yard dogs having terrible defects, heard more about people buying backyard dogs that work great. therefore, the chances of me getting a crappy put for a couple hundred bucks is slim to none. so i guess i could spend 2 or 3 times as much a get a dog that is ALMOST garunteed to not have any problems..... doesnt sound like a good plan for me when there is such a low chance of getting a crappy dog. at least thats what i noticed from my experience. I have no problem with people buying from a highclass breeder. they are no doubt good dogs. but i would never consider myself irresponsible for buying a DOG that was not completely checked for every lil bug that could ever exist, and then the tests could still be misleading.
Brandon
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664005
05/01/09 11:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156
Inky Doc
Veteran Tracker
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Quote:
alright well i guess ill end this for me and im sure there are plenty people on this forum that feel the same way. i will continue taking my chances as i have not heard to many sob stories about back yard dogs having terrible defects, heard more about people buying backyard dogs that work great. therefore, the chances of me getting a crappy put for a couple hundred bucks is slim to none. so i guess i could spend 2 or 3 times as much a get a dog that is ALMOST garunteed to not have any problems..... doesnt sound like a good plan for me when there is such a low chance of getting a crappy dog. at least thats what i noticed from my experience. I have no problem with people buying from a highclass breeder. they are no doubt good dogs. but i would never consider myself irresponsible for buying a DOG that was not completely checked for every lil bug that could ever exist, and then the tests could still be misleading.
Brandon
Watch out for that swine flu! LOL.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#664006
05/02/09 12:02 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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ya u know all those schools and stuff that are getting shut down?????? they are a few miles from the house, and all my dads side of the famiily lives over there lol. plus my pop goes to those towns a few times a week for work......im wearing a mask 24/7 lol! jk.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664007
05/02/09 12:08 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,594
First_Chance
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You got to love it when guys get on here and read about the first four or five posts in a 5 page thread that has it’s roots in two or three other threads and they start spewing… kinda makes them come across as... (what's the word I'm looking for...) igno.., nope... "uninformed" yeah, thats it!
This thread has nothing to do with humanization or even “irresponsible BUYING”, we could care less how you spend your mom and dad’s money, although it does tend to propagate the wingnuts that throw genetically inferior dogs together over and over and over again just to make a buck because people (read: reference to ‘Brandon A’ here) are willing to buy them… The thread is primarily (albeit not solely) about Labrador Retrievers and genetic deterioration of the overall BREED through “irresponsible” BREEDING practices. Go fetch a clue.
It’s more of a “crap in - crap out” type of situation… Hell, I’d take a free cow dog too, who wouldn’t, but I’m not going to take a free Lab, or free GSP, or free DD or anything else that I plan to spend the better part of a couple of years training and hunting only to come up with a 60% dog. I know your answer would be the tough guy route of “just kick it to the side and get another free one” and that is fine… but not with MY time and MY money. It’s an investment to me, and I have learned over the years (more than i care to admit) that you get what you pay for and nothing is free.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#664008
05/02/09 12:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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ur right i only read the last post on a five page thread since i have post on pages 1,3,4, and 5. maybe u should read the entire thread. youve got some years with dogs on my undoubtedly. The majority of this thread was about people buying dogs that were not sound as far as there health goes. maybe u should go "fetch a clue" there firstchance. and a lot of posts that dogs are part of the family and should be taken to the doctor everytime they sneeze. BTW every dog i have ever had besides my first one, i have bought and paid for with the money i made from working, maybe unlike u or other people u know, ive been working on a ranch my entire life, and finally started getting paid when i was 12 yrs old. bought my first hunting dog then. And hey guess what, she had some pups with another lab that i was given for free with a crappy pedigree. I gave away all the puppies, and two of them that were given a lil training made bird dogs, one made a dog better than mine. so i would say that was a pretty good "free lab" BTW, i didnt give away the papers to those pups. stopped that line in its tracks. I would not say this thread was (only) about labs, but more dogs in general, again reaed the thread. The reference to labs was just made several times toward hip problems etc.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664009
05/02/09 12:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
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that thread that will never end for anyone reading this that is thinking of getting a bird dog, you dont have to spend 3 times the money for a good dog with the proper health clearances. example: a friend of mine bred his GSP bitch to a billy bad arse GSP...both went through the health clearances, pups sold for $400/male and $450/female...I would not think that is to big of a price to pay
Last edited by gr_elliott; 05/02/09 12:35 AM.
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664010
05/02/09 12:44 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,594
First_Chance
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Obviously I struck a nerve, not really my intention! You sound like a responsible person and I commend you on your willingness to work hard and spend your money on things that mean something to you, a very admirable quality. I guess I got the wrong impression from some of your earlier posts where your biting sarcasm towards the subject at hand sort of set the tone for how your were perceived. My bad… keep up the good work and judging by your post count, you’ll be an expert around here in no time. Carry on.
GR... i paid $450 for the pup in my sig. stellar dog in every sense of the word.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#664011
05/02/09 03:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35,566
Guy
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
GR... i paid $450 for the pup in my sig. stellar dog in every sense of the word.
How much for the dress? 
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#664012
05/02/09 05:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,156
Inky Doc
Veteran Tracker
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Quote:
Obviously I struck a nerve, not really my intention! You sound like a responsible person and I commend you on your willingness to work hard and spend your money on things that mean something to you, a very admirable quality. I guess I got the wrong impression from some of your earlier posts where your biting sarcasm towards the subject at hand sort of set the tone for how your were perceived. My bad… keep up the good work and judging by your post count, you’ll be an expert around here in no time. Carry on.
GR... i paid $450 for the pup in my sig. stellar dog in every sense of the word.
Its all good, 1stChance. I think we ae both thick skinned.
Also, I have to admit that unless you think THFing all day, shooting at the range, collecting brass or doing some woodwork in my garage is hard I certainly ain't working. 08 was in that damn desert so I decided to take 365 days off. I do have to get up and be at work at 0630 everyday, but then I turn around and come right back home. So, if anyone wants to call me a lazy-good-for-nothing, I really do not have much of a defense right now.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Inky Doc]
#664013
05/02/09 06:19 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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ya 1st chance, its all fun here. my sarcasm here at the end was because the thead HAD died lol. but someone threw out some crazy meds and revived it. i guess u could call me lazy right now since i sit at home and post on THF and read all day. IT kills me. This afternoon i walked outside and started splittting wood bcause i coudlnt stand to study aany more lol. one more week. then i get to go out and work in the country again!!!! man i hate the city 
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664014
05/02/09 09:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,636
Texpppr
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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I have been thinking of getting Brittany pup, but being a HS teacher ..only so much $$$.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Texpppr]
#664015
05/03/09 07:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 10,646 |
you can get a good brit in the $400 range...price of pup is only a small amount when compared to the price of ownership
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#664016
05/03/09 07:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,636
Texpppr
Pro Tracker
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Oh don't I know that. I would want to fence in the rest of my back yard and put in a doggy door for starters..
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664017
05/04/09 02:13 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673
kbobbjr
Veteran Tracker
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Quote:
alright well i guess ill end this for me and im sure there are plenty people on this forum that feel the same way. i will continue taking my chances as i have not heard to many sob stories about back yard dogs having terrible defects
Just because you haven't heard about it means that it doesn't happen?
Quote:
heard more about people buying backyard dogs that work great. therefore, the chances of me getting a crappy put for a couple hundred bucks is slim to none.
Can you put this into context for us? Give us examples of the things a great dog can do. Can you also give us the data you used to determine these statistics?
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so i guess i could spend 2 or 3 times as much a get a dog that is ALMOST garunteed to not have any problems..... doesnt sound like a good plan for me when there is such a low chance of getting a crappy dog. at least thats what i noticed from my experience.
Can you tell us about your experience? How many dogs have you trained that fall into the category you describe above? How many dogs have you been around that fall into the category your describe above?
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I have no problem with people buying from a highclass breeder. they are no doubt good dogs. but i would never consider myself irresponsible for buying a DOG that was not completely checked for every lil bug that could ever exist, and then the tests could still be misleading.
Brandon
Can you explain to us how the tests could be misleading? Would you buy a car knowing that it was prone to exploding in a wreck due to a faulty part? Would you ask for proof that the part was replaced prior to purchasing the car?
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so i guess i could spend 2 or 3 times as much a get a dog that is ALMOST garunteed to not have any problems.....
It appears, from what I’m reading, that those that buy dogs from breeders without health certifications (not guarantees) believe that the only thing you get for the extra money being spent on high end pups is the health guarantee. This couldn’t be farther from the truth. High end breeders do have the health checks done but you also get a much better dog (in the majority of the cases). That’s not to say that you can’t get a great dog from a lesser pedigree but the odds are stacked in your favor if you get a pup from a stacked pedigree.
Now, before everyone starts the dog pile, let me explain. The folks that are only looking for a meat dog (dog that hunts during the season and is a couch potato the rest of the year) can get that from a backyard breeding. Those that want the next GRHRCH, FC/AFC or SRS dog know that the chances of getting one of these dogs from a backyard breeding is slim and none (and slim just left town). This type of dog requires a large investment (time and money) and the potential buyer is not willing to take a chance on a dog that doesn’t have certifications or proven abilities. Not all certifications on the sire/dam guarantee the pup won’t have a problem (like Angie stated above, hip/elbow and heart problems can be caused by the owner and not genetics). But, properly researching a pedigree will stack the odds in your favor. If you want a dog that is going to require tens of thousands of dollars in training to achieve a title then you aren’t going to risk that on a dog that could be sidelined in a couple of years due to a genetic condition. It would be money well wasted. If you’re looking for a dog to go out and pick up ducks during hunting season then it wouldn’t be a big issue. From what I’ve read from a couple of posts the dog would probably be put down and the person would go get another one. That’s not the attitude I would have but that’s just me.
If you’re looking for a hunting buddy only then I can see why you wouldn’t want to spend a bunch of money on a pup but I would hope that you would still want the healthiest pup you could buy. That is the reason for the tests.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#664018
05/04/09 04:42 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 22
bamboe
Light Foot
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Ill start off by saying that have read the entire post, so that can quash any responses to that. It seems to me that the whole discussion revolves around health tests, and high end dogs vs non high end. the person who sells her dogs for $1500 believes she is just in doing so because she has the dogs tested and such. My question to her would be that if she had a repeat breeding of her current litter, and didnt have the tests done would the dogs be worth less? On the flip side, she is entitled to sell her dogs for however much she can. Those who believe that $1500 is way to much to spend, are also entitled to their opinion. It seems however that those who are trying to justify their position have to get their digs in on the other viewpoint. I have a lab, and I paid much less than 1500 and feel confident he could compete with the best bred dogs out there. I base this on the fact that I have Marshalled hunt tests in the past and have seen the dogs compete. Neither side will convince the other. I do find some of the replies to be very enjoyable to read however. Thanks
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#664019
05/04/09 04:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
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The bottom line is when it comes to dogs where do you spend your money???
If the one eyed poodle with three legs that lives under your porch is good enough to be your meat dog, who am I to say different??
If you want a lab but think any lab will do. That's fine... Go to your local flea market...
But if you want a trained retriever,,, I mean a trained retriever that you're planning on sticking some serious time and money into, then ofcourse you're going to be an educated consumer and get the best bang for your buck...
You fella's laugh at how much money people are willing to drop on a dog,,,, but dollar to donuts, you drop some serious jingle on something I would feel is ridiculous.
Of all the sporting dogs,retrievers fetch the highest price tag be it puppy or finished dog. Usually their housing/kennels, training and competition venues tag the highest dollar.
You wanna drive a Pinto that you picked up from the junk yard, a Ford Fusion or a Beamer??
Pick your poisin...
Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#664020
05/05/09 04:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 22
bamboe
Light Foot
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Light Foot
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See now this is what I was talking about. Instead of just agreeing to disagree. You basically are saying that if someone doesn't spend big dollars on a dog, then he/she obviously boutght the dog at a flea market, and that the dog must be junk. So its either a high end dog or a one eyed poodle???? Thats a BIG jump.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: bamboe]
#664021
05/05/09 07:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 581
Redboneman
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Angie, I said in a post on here that some "back yard dogs" put some "high dollar" dogs to shame  , and that is the truth. I have witnessed grown men fight over just that, "a no name dog beat mine!!!! oh heck no!!!! " . All of the breeding in the world doesn't guarantee anything. Granted those dogs are predisposed to do their job as traits are passed, but it can still be a cull. I say buy what you want, I have had dogs with great breeding and some that I have no clue what they had. And guess what, breeding was not a factor when it came to the meat in the tree or in their mouth returning from the field(i.e. Sally, best damned duck/goose dog I have ever owned or seen, no papers). All I ask is that you are mindful of any kind of health issues that the sire and dam may have and stop the bloodline dead if they have problems. Other than that....get a pup train it to the best of your ability and see what happens.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: bamboe]
#664022
05/05/09 09:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,673
kbobbjr
Veteran Tracker
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Quote:
See now this is what I was talking about. Instead of just agreeing to disagree. You basically are saying that if someone doesn't spend big dollars on a dog, then he/she obviously boutght the dog at a flea market, and that the dog must be junk. So its either a high end dog or a one eyed poodle???? Thats a BIG jump.
She did mention a Ford Fusion as well....
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#664023
05/05/09 11:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,121
GUTIT
THF Trophy Hunter
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Quote:
The bottom line is when it comes to dogs where do you spend your money???
If the one eyed poodle with three legs that lives under your porch is good enough to be your meat dog, who am I to say different??
If you want a lab but think any lab will do. That's fine... Go to your local flea market...
But if you want a trained retriever,,, I mean a trained retriever that you're planning on sticking some serious time and money into, then ofcourse you're going to be an educated consumer and get the best bang for your buck...
You fella's laugh at how much money people are willing to drop on a dog,,,, but dollar to donuts, you drop some serious jingle on something I would feel is ridiculous.
Of all the sporting dogs,retrievers fetch the highest price tag be it puppy or finished dog. Usually their housing/kennels, training and competition venues tag the highest dollar.
You wanna drive a Pinto that you picked up from the junk yard, a Ford Fusion or a Beamer??
Pick your poisin...
Angie
You sure can tell who has the kennels on here that are selling the "high " dollar dogs. Just read their posts. They all push for you to spend your money with them or one like them. 
Stronghold Construction Group
Commercial and Residential Project Management
Managing all your construction needs
Kent@StrongholdConstructionGroupDOTcom
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: GUTIT]
#664024
05/06/09 01:51 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
Pro Tracker
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Quote:
Quote:
The bottom line is when it comes to dogs where do you spend your money???
If the one eyed poodle with three legs that lives under your porch is good enough to be your meat dog, who am I to say different??
If you want a lab but think any lab will do. That's fine... Go to your local flea market...
But if you want a trained retriever,,, I mean a trained retriever that you're planning on sticking some serious time and money into, then ofcourse you're going to be an educated consumer and get the best bang for your buck...
You fella's laugh at how much money people are willing to drop on a dog,,,, but dollar to donuts, you drop some serious jingle on something I would feel is ridiculous.
Of all the sporting dogs,retrievers fetch the highest price tag be it puppy or finished dog. Usually their housing/kennels, training and competition venues tag the highest dollar.
You wanna drive a Pinto that you picked up from the junk yard, a Ford Fusion or a Beamer??
Pick your poisin...
Angie
You sure can tell who has the kennels on here that are selling the "high " dollar dogs. Just read their posts. They all push for you to spend your money with them or one like them.
LOL... Pushing no harder then those who breed low dollar dogs...
Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: GUTIT]
#664025
05/06/09 04:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,788
wal1809
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I have stayed away from this too long. If you buy a cheap dog your going to get just that. How can anyone argue with the link posted earlier to the thread I started on EIC. If your still in this discussion and on the side of a back yard breeder then you probably didn't read about my black bitch.
I am still sick about it. My yellow male is a bad arse but she could have been better than him. Now she just walks around doing nothing. I have anywhere from $3000 to $5000 in her and she is worthless so far as hunting, hunt tests or breeding. She is a 3 to $5000 dollar lap dog.
My question for the cheapsters. If you can't afford a 5, 6,7, 800 dollar, what are you going to do for the dog in case of an emergency? If something bad happens and you have to go to Texas A&M or Gulf Coast your looking at thousands to start off. If you can't afford several hundred more on the dog in the first place then you probably shouldn't acquire the responsibility of a dog. Especially one your going to place in harms way on a daily basis during hunting season.
My wife has asked on one occasion, one, how much would I spend to keep Bull alive. I asked "how much do we have and how much can we get". That is how much.
The diseases today are solely the fault of back yard breeders who have bred the diseases out of control. The diseases are continued because of nothing more than greed and ignorance. GREED and IGNORANCE.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: wal1809]
#664026
05/06/09 05:14 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
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Thanks WAL1809...
Enough said....
Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#664027
05/06/09 07:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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if i spend 300 on a dog, and it needs thousands of dollars of work done to it...... the dog just doesnt get the work done... whats the big deal, its a DOG!!!!!!! the most work i get done on a dog is getting it fixed, or get it checked out if it is run over or bit by a snake... i would never spend more than say 1000 bucks for an intense surgery... just not what i do. now if u have a 5000 dollar dog (theres nothing wrong with that) then ya spend some money at the vet.
Now dif. Lets give a case point. what would u suggest for me.
I want a bird hunting dog that can sit retrieve and bring the bird back to my hand and come on command. now please explain to me why i would need a high end dog for that....
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664028
05/06/09 03:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,788
wal1809
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You have already answered your own question. What you need is a 300 dollar dog. It is obvious your dog would suffer before you take it to the vet. We see different and that is that. You dismiss your responsibility of a dog owner by saying "Its a DOG".
News flash. A snake bit dog will probably die without being vaccinated prior to the bite or suffer such tissue damage they will retire. To get proper care your looking at $1500. My question to you, would you pay it? My other question to you is what are you going to do in the case such as mine. You buy a 300 dollar dog and go through the training. Your dog starts falling out at about 1.5 years and you discover the dog has EIC. What are you going to do? To find out what the problem is you have to go to the vet and spend about $150. Now your three $300 dog costs you $450 and your dog is retired. Why would you not go buy a dog that has a guarantee for an extra $200. If not for the dog's sake, that is a good sound business decision.
I didn't get into this to try and sell you a dog. I got into this because EIC is running rampant in the labrador world and the backyard breeders are keeping the gene alive. It would go away if the dim witted greedy irresponsible backyarders were not allowing it to continue.
The labrador breed was nearly lost at one time. Had it not been for the Englissh lords and the black market it would have been lost and to never be started again. Eic is so bad they really are just now getting an idea of how bad it is. They have only been able to identify the genetic strain within the last couple of years. The only way to get rid of it is through responsible breeding. Responsible breeding is not two dogs $%^&*((. It is both sire and dam being tested and having two traits that will enhance the breed.
I have never been one to say a low cost dog would not be a good hunting animal. I am as cocky as they come and I believe I can make any dog do just about anything through training. I do believe high end genetics make that job easier. But that does not discount some dogs with a low end price as being some bad arse animals.
In this day I still can't understand why a person would defend a back yarder when for a couple hundred bucks they can get a genetically sound animal.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664029
05/06/09 03:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,788
wal1809
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Quote:
if i spend 300 on a dog, and it needs thousands of dollars of work done to it...... the dog just doesnt get the work done... whats the big deal, its a DOG!!!!!!! the most work i get done on a dog is getting it fixed, or get it checked out if it is run over or bit by a snake... i would never spend more than say 1000 bucks for an intense surgery... just not what i do. now if u have a 5000 dollar dog (theres nothing wrong with that) then ya spend some money at the vet.
Now dif. Lets give a case point. what would u suggest for me.
I want a bird hunting dog that can sit retrieve and bring the bird back to my hand and come on command. now please explain to me why i would need a high end dog for that....
I am sorry Ididn't answer your question. What I would suggest for you is to find a breeder that guarantees hip, eyes, elbows and EIC clear. You can find them all day long in the $500 $600 dollar range. Yes it is twice what you would have paid, but your guaranteed your money back. That money rarely gets paid back because with the testing the dogs have been cleared. It is highly unlikely they will suffer any of the afforementioned diseases. Now that you paid that and have the guarantee, you will have a disease free animal you can hunt with for the next decade.
Do this for me or for yourself. Google EIC (exercise induced collapse) and search around for a video. I believe it is on the University of Minnisota web sight. Watch the video of the black bitch dragging her back legs going after a bumper. Then when your done lets continue this conversation. If that doesn't change you thoughts on paying a couple of hundred bucks for a dog to be clear then thaere is just no way to change your mind. I have seen it with my own eyes on a dog I love as much as any human on this planet. She was in the top of her game when this happened. Now I am afraid to let her alone around water for fear another episode of EIC and her drowning before I get to her. Go check it out, in the meantime I am going to try and find it and post the link here.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: wal1809]
#664031
05/06/09 03:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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ill check out ur vid in a lil bit, real quick right now. If icould get a garuntee, and it is a real garuntee, i might consider spending 500. O and btw ur b.s. about a snake bite... ya they dont die, unless maybe it is a rattler bite which i havent experienced and the vet bill isnt all that high. weve taken several for copperhead and cotton mouth bites. cotton mouth is more expensive b.cause of the bacteria. Ive seen a couple dogs with EIC it sucks (they werent mine) i went with my friend both times to have em put down. they were also about 10 yrs old. I have to admit that u have humanized your dogs a lot more than i have mine. I can say that i have never loved a dog as much as a person. Close, but never as much. In my book a dogs a dog. in urs a dog is a person. Nothing wrong with that at all. seems to me that yall spend a lot of money for just a plain ole dog. Now for a world class hunting dog then thats fine, but i can garuntee u i could not spend so much on just a hunting dog. ill get back in a lil, gotta go take an exam, wish me luck.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664032
05/06/09 04:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,788
wal1809
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Alright Brandon we can stop right here and now if your going to refer to my advice as BS. I was not talking about copper head or water mocassins, only a rattlesnake. I don't take my animals to the vet for either a mocassin or copperhead. I give them bededryl and antibiotics. A rattler is what I was talking about. They will die or suffer tremendously with a rattler.
Sorry you have missed the experience of a friendship with a truly good animal. Those times spent with Bull are the best times of my life. I can't begin to tell you the good times he has given to me. I would easily give all I have to return the favor to him.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664033
05/06/09 04:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 306
steel shot
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 306 |
Quote:
If icould get a garuntee , and it is a real garuntee, i might consider spending 500. ill get back in a lil, gotta go take an exam, wish me luck.
Hope it's not a spelling exam.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: wal1809]
#664034
05/06/09 05:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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Quote:
Alright Brandon we can stop right here and now if your going to refer to my advice as BS. I was not talking about copper head or water mocassins, only a rattlesnake. I don't take my animals to the vet for either a mocassin or copperhead. I give them bededryl and antibiotics. A rattler is what I was talking about. They will die or suffer tremendously with a rattler.
Sorry you have missed the experience of a friendship with a truly good animal. Those times spent with Bull are the best times of my life. I can't begin to tell you the good times he has given to me. I would easily give all I have to return the favor to him.
i called bs only because i did not know u were only referring to rattlers. kind of guessed u were but not sure. Now i dont think ive missed out on a friendship with a dog. had a good friendship with my dogs sabrina, and luscious and leroy. not so much with my dog right now cuz im never home, but she is still my girl! Maybe i grew up in a different way than you. I hate to revert back to this, but when u have cow dogs that are solely working dogs, u dont get a relationship. And ive had to kill several of em. Either because they were hurt or were not in fact "working dogs" now i know this may seem horrible to you (maybe not) but its a ranch, which is a business, not a puppy paradise. Maybe since ive had to deal dogs with that, i havent put any dog on the same level as a human. because i dont think i could ever just kill a human because it didnt work. I mean who would our taxes go to? I just plain and simple cant say that i would give all i could for a dog.... just not the way i think. I dont think its bad that u think that way, its just not my way. ive got some good dogs, they are my "friends" but first and foremost, they are dogs. I would choose any person over those dogs any day. Almost every human  lol! JK. maybe u dont feel the same way. I think this is what the thread is coming down too. You put ur dogs up on a much higher pedistool (sp???) than i do. therefore, u are more willing to throw some money up front. I see my dogs as dogs. Sure i miss em, i cant wait to get home on the weekends to play fetch with em and watch em try to catch clay pigeons in their mouth. But if i came home and mom told me that my dog jed died, id say well thats too bad, i guess ill have to bury him. Of course id b sad, might even shed a tear, but nonetheless, he is a dog.
Oh steel shot... it was multiple choice no spelling!!!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664035
05/06/09 06:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 306
steel shot
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 306 |
Quote:
Quote:
Alright Brandon we can stop right here and now if your going to refer to my advice as BS. I was not talking about copper head or water mocassins, only a rattlesnake. I don't take my animals to the vet for either a mocassin or copperhead. I give them bededryl and antibiotics. A rattler is what I was talking about. They will die or suffer tremendously with a rattler.
Sorry you have missed the experience of a friendship with a truly good animal. Those times spent with Bull are the best times of my life. I can't begin to tell you the good times he has given to me. I would easily give all I have to return the favor to him.
i called bs only because i did not know u were only referring to rattlers. kind of guessed u were but not sure. Now i dont think ive missed out on a friendship with a dog. had a good friendship with my dogs sabrina, and luscious and leroy. not so much with my dog right now cuz im never home, but she is still my girl! Maybe i grew up in a different way than you. I hate to revert back to this, but when u have cow dogs that are solely working dogs, u dont get a relationship. And ive had to kill several of em. Either because they were hurt or were not in fact "working dogs" now i know this may seem horrible to you (maybe not) but its a ranch, which is a business, not a puppy paradise. Maybe since ive had to deal dogs with that, i havent put any dog on the same level as a human. because i dont think i could ever just kill a human because it didnt work. I mean who would our taxes go to? I just plain and simple cant say that i would give all i could for a dog.... just not the way i think. I dont think its bad that u think that way, its just not my way. ive got some good dogs, they are my "friends" but first and foremost, they are dogs. I would choose any person over those dogs any day. Almost every human lol! JK. maybe u dont feel the same way. I think this is what the thread is coming down too. You put ur dogs up on a much higher pedistool (sp???) than i do. therefore, u are more willing to throw some money up front. I see my dogs as dogs. Sure i miss em, i cant wait to get home on the weekends to play fetch with em and watch em try to catch clay pigeons in their mouth. But if i came home and mom told me that my dog jed died, id say well thats too bad, i guess ill have to bury him. Of course id b sad, might even shed a tear, but nonetheless, he is a dog.
That was a good one !!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: steel shot]
#664036
05/06/09 10:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,009
nichols
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"If you buy a cheap dog you're going to get just that" lol that is ridiculous!! Dogs are not an item! I have said before I would put my hog dogs against any there is and I havent bought a one of them, well except my pitbull but he was only $20 from the animal shelter and will catch as good or better than any priced at over $200. I have tried out dogs for sale that were priced over $500 and you couldnt give them to me! I believe in the phrase you get what you pay for, but not with dogs!!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: nichols]
#664037
05/06/09 11:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,278
Fooshman
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Man, I couldn't watch that video all the way through. I had to turn it off.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: nichols]
#664038
05/06/09 11:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 22
bamboe
Light Foot
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Light Foot
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I think we are comparing apples to oranges here. For one thing people are mis using(in my opinion) the term back yard breeders. the reason there are so many health issues with dog breeds, is because of BIG High dollar breeders abusing the system. The guy who has one litter a year that produces 6 pups is not the problem. These unethical breeders are in it for a profit. They have 5 or 6 females that are being bred at any given time and they will throw her with a Titled stud, that everyone wants a puppy out of. Case in point the Labrador breed now has to sub sections and you have to know whether you are buying hunting lines or show lines. Get a Lab from show lines and be ready to do your own duck retreiving. I have seen this with the German Shepherd as well. A GS bred from AKC lines is a nightmare waiting to happen. It is the big kennels that can fill the demand. Go to any local animal shelter six months from now and see how many yellow labs are going to be in there. Everyone wants a yellow lab now that Marly and me came out. When that dog turns six months and is eating the sheetrock, they will be discarded. With that being said, I MUST give a shout out to Angie. I do not know the woman but I have looked at her web site and if I could afford $1500.00 She would be the one I would buy from. I say this based on her claims about the home environment and the fact that they will be introduced to water and birds at 7 weeks of age. YOu are not only paying for the pedigree but also her labor in raising them.  Anyway just my 2 cents. Ken
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: nichols]
#664039
05/07/09 12:19 AM
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BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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Quote:
"If you buy a cheap dog you're going to get just that" lol that is ridiculous!! Dogs are not an item! I have said before I would put my hog dogs against any there is and I havent bought a one of them, well except my pitbull but he was only $20 from the animal shelter and will catch as good or better than any priced at over $200. I have tried out dogs for sale that were priced over $500 and you couldnt give them to me! I believe in the phrase you get what you pay for, but not with dogs!!
LMAO....whole differnt animal for a whole different purpose..
Like comparing a mustang to a world champion cutting horse....
Not one person on here would take the chance of baying a hog with their GSP, lab ect... why do think that is????
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#664040
05/07/09 07:09 AM
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nichols
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You have never seen bay dogs priced at $1500!! Prolly not! Im assuming you dont get out much!! A good bay dog is better than a retrieving dog imo, and the forum is about dogs in general!! So it is no like comparing a mustang to a world champion cutting horse. A lap dog can cost over $1000 and what do they do??
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: nichols]
#664041
05/07/09 08:54 AM
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Closed Traverse
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they are really good at sitting on laps, they have pedigrees proven to distribute the weight perfectly!!!! and ya hog dog prices can sky rocket just like retrievers.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: nichols]
#664042
05/07/09 05:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,661
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
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Quote:
You have never seen bay dogs priced at $1500!! Prolly not! Im assuming you dont get out much!! A good bay dog is better than a retrieving dog imo, and the forum is about dogs in general!! So it is no like comparing a mustang to a world champion cutting horse. A lap dog can cost over $1000 and what do they do??
Never assume anything about anyone on this forum... Thats how you end up lookig like a donkey
Yelp it is like comparing a mustang to a champion cutting horse....and it has nothing to do with price.... Its why and how its breed and what for....And yes this part of the forum is about GUN DOGS.... and this post was started about BIRD DOGS.
Same reason I wouldn't use your catch dog or my lab to WORK my cattle(I like to not have to look for them 4 properties away), just like I wouldn't use a blue heeler or boarder colie to hunt pheasants or quail. Ya'll get it yet??
Last edited by jgiles; 05/07/09 05:14 PM.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#664043
05/07/09 09:40 PM
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Closed Traverse
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why not use a hog dog to work cattle???? almost all the same breeds!!! sry just had to stir the pot a lil bit!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664044
05/07/09 10:10 PM
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nichols
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Naw jgiles I still dont get it!! Its like you are saying that a retriever is a much better dog than a hog dog?? Im not getting your comparison!! Maybe you can make it clearer. Imo opinion a hog dog should be held higher than a retriever bcuz you can teach a dog to retrieve but you cant teach one to go find a hog and bay on it for a long time! yeah its about gun dogs, ppl use dogs to bay and then shoot hogs all the time!! Im gonna try not to assume too much and let you you explain!!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: nichols]
#664045
05/07/09 11:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,661
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
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Not better or worse... just bred to do different things.
How many bay/catch dogs have you lost and how many have you gone through?
People use beagle to track mountian lions.... You going to use a bealge to retrieve ducks on a partially frozen lake or river?
Point is most Bird Dog owners spend a great deal of time training thier dogs.... they shorten the process buy buying dogs breed to hunt. Could you teach a pitt or curr to fetch a bird probley... coud you teach it to do bind retrieves maybe.... could you get the bird out of its mouth with out a break stick....well maybe.... would it make it in ice cold water on a hundred yards chasing wounded duck retrieve....NO. Regardless the learning curve would be great and the time longer... They aren't breed to do it.
Most bird dogs also track animals other then birds.. so yes I could teach my lab to track pigs... he already does fine with Deer. Would i subject him to that no.
Most bird dog owners own one dog maybe two... and they live in the house... so what traits would you look for with a dog thats spends alot of time around your family and kids?
Ever domesticated animal is breed for certian traits... some desirable some not.... you catch/bay dogs are breed with traits that most bird dog owner would perfer to do with out.
This whole thread is about preserving the intergrity of the genetic pool for labs...
You have aready stated you don't care about genetic as long as that dog will track and bay... and that your catch dogs no matter what the breed goes to the head and stays on them.
Would you pay more for a dog you know is going to be easier to train... yes you would... doesn't matter how much even if its 10 bucks its still more. Why becuase you time is valueable.
Went it comes to bad genetics... I would prefer to spend the money to do with out the genetic flaws that can cause the animal pain.. in turn causing you family pain.
People look and pay more for better genetics in all domistic animals.. Thats why you have cutting horses bringing 50k +, thats why you have low birth wieght calve throwing bulls bringing a premium, thats why cattle with big biskets, bull with a big sheath or flaws are sold cheeper then others... you want good genetics you pay for them. Whether its a dog, cat, horse, pig or cow... you got it now?
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#664046
05/08/09 12:02 AM
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nichols
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Yes they are bred to do differnet things but a mustang and a world champion cutting horse is a bad comparison. Maybe if you would have just said cutting horse instead of "world champion" Genetics is important when your breeding your dogs, but as far as just looking for a good hunting dog, with no intention of breeding I wouldnt worry much about genetics. If a retriever will do what he is supposed to I dont care he his grandfather was an alaskan malamute, Im not interested in being a breeder. Im more concerned with his performance than pedigree. You can pay for genetics and not get what you want. A bull may have a low birth weight but not breed many cows or get stay hurt all the time. Genetics helps when making decisions about breeding but Im a hunter not a dog breeder! Oh I have not had any bay dogs killed by hogs I teach them to stay back and bay, knock on wood!! Any my whole point in getting in on this conversation was the idea that you get what you pay for!! Do you believe that when it comes to dogs??
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: nichols]
#664047
05/08/09 12:53 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,166
westtexaswatkins
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After all that has been said on this thread, has it honestly changed anyones mind one way or the other? Just wondering.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#664048
05/08/09 12:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 23,924
TreeBass
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probably not, but cudos for keeping it logical and not personal
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#664049
05/08/09 02:03 AM
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Closed Traverse
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whats this business about bird dogs stayin in the house?? im sitting here trying to think of all the people i know with bird dogs, and everyone i can think of has its own kennel in the back yard.... none are in the house. Not to say some arent, but i wouldnt say most are in the house. at least not in my area.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664050
05/08/09 02:53 AM
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nichols
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Quote:
whats this business about bird dogs stayin in the house?? im sitting here trying to think of all the people i know with bird dogs, and everyone i can think of has its own kennel in the back yard.... none are in the house. Not to say some arent, but i wouldnt say most are in the house. at least not in my area.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#664051
05/08/09 03:22 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35,566
Guy
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Quote:
After all that has been said on this thread, has it honestly changed anyones mind one way or the other? Just wondering.
I bet it has a little. But more importantly, I would think both sides might understand the otherside I little bit more. At least I do.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664052
05/08/09 04:00 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 284
MrsBirddog
Bird Dog
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Quote:
whats this business about bird dogs stayin in the house?? im sitting here trying to think of all the people i know with bird dogs, and everyone i can think of has its own kennel in the back yard.... none are in the house. Not to say some arent, but i wouldnt say most are in the house. at least not in my area.
Our bird dogs are most definately in the house! Not all day every day but ALOT! I am not one of those people that keeps my hunting dogs kenneled if it is not hunting season! Ours are part of the family! Thanks to bamboe for finally stating the obvious! Those of us who do not buy high end dogs have been called White Trash and flea market shoppers in the last few pages! That is classy now isn't it????? But it's "NOT PERSONAL"
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: MrsBirddog]
#664053
05/08/09 04:58 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Angie B
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I've been on the other side and have been totally burned...
I understand the rational and reasoning,,, but that kind of mentality will get you in the end,,, eventually...
Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#664054
05/08/09 05:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,788
wal1809
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My bird dogs stay at the foot of the bed, every night. When I am in the house they are too. If I am outside they are too. They are absolutely a part of the family.
Last edited by WAL1809; 05/08/09 05:51 AM.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: wal1809]
#664055
05/08/09 07:23 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,278
Fooshman
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Quote:
My bird dogs stay at the foot of the bed, every night. When I am in the house they are too. If I am outside they are too. They are absolutely a part of the family.
Totally the same way. Althought my dog tries to push me outta the bed.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#664056
05/08/09 10:49 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 581
Redboneman
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jgiles, I would challenge you to make a lab a coon dog or big game dog. And who on God's earth uses beagles to hunt lion?...no one in their right mind. Lions go up trees and beagles do not have a treeing instinct. Brother I have owned and trained labs at one time, and there is no way on earth that it is as much of a "do it all" dog as you describe. They are good dogs, no doubt. But they are cold nosed and have no track drive unless you seriously train.
So if you think a champion lab can scent the way a champion coon dog can...all I can say is I would love to see it.
Bottom line is every dog is bread and developed for a different style. You won't send a Dachshund after a mountain lion just like you won't send a lab after a badger. And btw there are lots of dogs that can last in the water just as long as a lab. (they aren't that special)
As for genetics, yes they do cost money. But don't sit there and think you have a do it all dog, you don't. I have run them and owned them and hunted them in the Mississippi Flyway. They are great for what they are meant for but not worth crap for other things. So get your breed for what you need to do and have fun doing it. My just ask that you quit acting like Labs are superior to any dog at any task.
(btw a lab would get worked as a catch/kill dog, they have no drive for stick and kill)
Let me make sure everyone knows, I love labs and will own another one for a duck/goose dog. I actually love the breed, they just have their job.
Last edited by Redboneman; 05/08/09 10:52 AM.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: wal1809]
#664057
05/08/09 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 23,924
TreeBass
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Quote:
My bird dogs stay at the foot of the bed, every night. When I am in the house they are too. If I am outside they are too. They are absolutely a part of the family.
+1
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: TreeBass]
#664058
05/08/09 04:13 PM
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Posts: 2,594
First_Chance
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Quote:
Quote:
My bird dogs stay at the foot of the bed, every night. When I am in the house they are too. If I am outside they are too. They are absolutely a part of the family.
+1
+2
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#664059
05/08/09 07:36 PM
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nichols
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My bird dogs stay at the foot of the bed, every night. When I am in the house they are too. If I am outside they are too. They are absolutely a part of the family.
+1
+2
Thats cool that yalls dogs sleep in the house with yall, I love dogs too, but do yall ever run into a problem with them getting too babied. Such as not wanting to go out and work in the cold. Idk it may not apply to them but I know with regular huntin dogs if you baby them they will get soft and not perform to their potential! No offense intended, just a question!!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: nichols]
#664060
05/08/09 07:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
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thats where solid hunting genes come into play
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#664061
05/08/09 08:03 PM
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First_Chance
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Quote:
thats where solid hunting genes come into play
Exactly! I looked around until I found a line that was touted as "calm around the house and brag dogs in the field". That hunting drive is always there, no matter what.
As GR said, A dog from a good genetic (hunting) line, will have the "switch", and it's all GO in the field, all the time.
I REALLY don't want to get all of this started again, but this is one of the points that a lot of us are trying to make. If you start with a good strong foundation to build on, you can consistantly have it all in a dog. top notch family, top notch companion, top notch gun dog without any limitations or sacrificing one for the other.
Personally, and this is a "no offense is to be taken" thing... I believe that the thought process, that bringing a hunting dog into your family makes it "soft and won't preform as well" to be old school and completely false. I've brought every one of my dogs over the years into the family and I have never had a soft dog, but I always start with good genetics.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#664062
05/08/09 08:19 PM
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FETCH_UP
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Quote:
Quote:
thats where solid hunting genes come into play
Exactly! I looked around until I found a line that was touted as "calm around the house and brag dogs in the field". That hunting drive is always there, no matter what.
As GR said, A dog from a good genetic (hunting) line, will have the "switch", and it's all GO in the field, all the time.
I REALLY don't want to get all of this started again, but this is one of the points that a lot of us are trying to make. If you start with a good strong foundation to build on, you can consistantly have it all in a dog. top notch family, top notch companion, top notch gun dog without any limitations or sacrificing one for the other.
Personally, and this is a "no offense is to be taken" thing... I believe that the thought process, that bringing a hunting dog into your family makes it "soft and won't preform as well" to be old school and completely false. I've brought every one of my dogs over the years into the family and I have never had a soft dog, but I always start with good genetics.
Mine will come in every once in a while but when its time to go there is no doubt about them being ready!
*Cant believe this thing has gone 7 pages without getting locked, lol, im impressed that its been "somewhat" civil.
HRCH ACE MH Triple D Duck Club
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#664063
05/08/09 09:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,646
garrett
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Quote:
Personally, and this is a "no offense is to be taken" thing... I believe that the thought process, that bringing a hunting dog into your family makes it "soft and won't preform as well" to be old school and completely false.
ding ding ding
old school like Richard Wolters
Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#664064
05/08/09 10:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,788
wal1809
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Quote:
Quote:
Personally, and this is a "no offense is to be taken" thing... I believe that the thought process, that bringing a hunting dog into your family makes it "soft and won't preform as well" to be old school and completely false.
Hogwash it what it is, hogwash.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: wal1809]
#664065
05/09/09 02:36 AM
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nichols
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Thats cool!! I dont believe it is a a hogwash statement tho. It may be with retrievers but Ive seen from personal experience that hunting dogs that are babied dont hunt as well. Dogs that get babied wont get far from your feet bcuz they are wanting to getted petted. I guess its fine with retrievers but doesnt go well with dogs that you want to go hunt hard. Im sure there are exceptions but for the most part the best huntin dogs I have seen were not babied. Ive never seen a coon dog sleeping in someones house!!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: nichols]
#664066
05/09/09 05:07 AM
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Angie B
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Quote:
Thats cool!! I dont believe it is a a hogwash statement tho. It may be with retrievers but Ive seen from personal experience that hunting dogs that are babied dont hunt as well. Dogs that get babied wont get far from your feet bcuz they are wanting to getted petted. I guess its fine with retrievers but doesnt go well with dogs that you want to go hunt hard. Im sure there are exceptions but for the most part the best huntin dogs I have seen were not babied. Ive never seen a coon dog sleeping in someones house!!
Interesting,,,,,
I know many FC/AFC's NFC's that sleep in their owners bed, hunt like no tomorrow and train with their pro's 10 months a year...
Pedigree, training, talent and RESPECT... Is all a dog needs to do it all...
Angie
Last edited by Angie B; 05/09/09 05:07 AM.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#664067
05/09/09 07:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35,566
Guy
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Quote:
Note that the lab has class and proper manners, and that pointer has absolutely no shame.
I think an indoor dog is a more well behaved dog, they have to be or they get kicked outside . A lot of training with my dog happens in the house, namely with obedience and how to behave around guest. I think all this helps in the blind and when around other hunters.
I use to put my dog outside on nights before hunts when it was cold, I thought it would help her better deal with the cold. I did that one season, and don't think it really helped/had an impact. But I tell you what, that one season I put her out side, man she really realized how much she liked her indoor kennel. I say "kennel", and she makes a b-line right to the indoor kennel hoping to hell I don’t mean the outdoor one.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Guy]
#664068
05/09/09 08:22 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,278
Fooshman
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My dog is definitely equipped with the "switch"
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#664069
05/09/09 08:03 PM
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nichols
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Quote:
Quote:
Thats cool!! I dont believe it is a a hogwash statement tho. It may be with retrievers but Ive seen from personal experience that hunting dogs that are babied dont hunt as well. Dogs that get babied wont get far from your feet bcuz they are wanting to getted petted. I guess its fine with retrievers but doesnt go well with dogs that you want to go hunt hard. Im sure there are exceptions but for the most part the best huntin dogs I have seen were not babied. Ive never seen a coon dog sleeping in someones house!!
Interesting,,,,,
I know many FC/AFC's NFC's that sleep in their owners bed, hunt like no tomorrow and train with their pro's 10 months a year...
Pedigree, training, talent and RESPECT... Is all a dog needs to do it all...
Angie
What is an FC/AFC NFC????
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: nichols]
#664070
05/10/09 12:40 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,429
Angie B
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Thats cool!! I dont believe it is a a hogwash statement tho. It may be with retrievers but Ive seen from personal experience that hunting dogs that are babied dont hunt as well. Dogs that get babied wont get far from your feet bcuz they are wanting to getted petted. I guess its fine with retrievers but doesnt go well with dogs that you want to go hunt hard. Im sure there are exceptions but for the most part the best huntin dogs I have seen were not babied. Ive never seen a coon dog sleeping in someones house!!
Interesting,,,,,
I know many FC/AFC's NFC's that sleep in their owners bed, hunt like no tomorrow and train with their pro's 10 months a year...
Pedigree, training, talent and RESPECT... Is all a dog needs to do it all...
Angie
What is an FC/AFC NFC????
Field Champion, Amateur Field Champion and National Field Champion...
Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#664071
05/10/09 05:29 AM
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Posts: 2,868
Chet
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Posts: 2,868 |
Well, I don't want add any fuel to the fire but I think most folks who are adament about the fact that their dogs live in the house and sleep at the foot (or on the bed) are mostly those who own versatile dogs. Labs, GSPs and others. I'm betting that those who don't have them in the house have rougher breeds, coon hounds, lion dogs and my sickness pointers.
I've always believed that pointers are just a little bit closer to the coyotte than other breeds. Now I know folks that have them in the house, but they are few and far between. My old lab slept in the bed and ended up on me alot of nights, but my pointers have no manners and are, I believe harder to house break and trust in the house and alone. If I'm wrong and a bunch of you have your pointers in the bed I'll go away quietly but I don't think these are the in the house dogs that alot of other calmer versatile types are.
One other thing, I don't care what kind of dog it is if it gets care and love and sleeps in the recliner every night, I'm beting if it has the fire to hunt it will still hunt in the morning after it gets out of it's jamies and finishes a bowl of bacon and eggs...........Good tunes are always good tunes and good dogs are always good dogs............
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#664072
05/10/09 06:19 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 581
Redboneman
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 581 |
For coon dogs it is all bout the Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion. If your dog won't hunt well at night it isn't worth it's weight as a coon dog...Just my opinion as a long time coon hunter.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Redboneman]
#664073
05/10/09 08:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104 |
hey redbone, to the "labs cant hunt coons" comment. Ill have u know that less than 1 hr ago, my two labs treed a coon!!! and the trail wasnt older than 5 min old!!!! lol.... real hard right!!! i saw the coon at my parents house and brought my two dogs down there to see what they would do, my full bred lab hit on the trail instantly, and found the coon out on the ground and then hauled arse after it. then treed it on the neighbors land. it was funny as heck. BTW im just jacking with u, i know labs arent worth crap for real coon hunting.
Also to the comment about not changing ur mind. I can tell u that i would consider buying a "high end dog" but i cant see paying 1000 bucks, maybe 500 or so.... ive sure learned a lot, and myabe it didnt change the two extremes, but the people reading surely learned a couple things.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#664074
05/10/09 04:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 249
twostrike
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 249 |
I have had 2 male pointers that lived in the house. Each one earned the right to come into the house. They both had field trail placements, walking not horse back, but they were real easy to housebreak, of course they were 2 or older before they came into the house. The current one, Bud, people come out to the house at the lease and see him sleeping on his bed in the corner and say that is the dog we are hunting over, the next evening they say that I changed dogs over night. Our 5 year old triplett granddaughters just love Bud, he lets them lay on top of him, pull him around, play with his food, you name. So pointers can be good house dogs and still go all out.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: twostrike]
#664075
05/10/09 08:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,292
moderno
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,292 |
A good freind of mine gave me a GSP puppy that I picked out of the litter. A trainer came and bought most of his other puppies. He has bred, raised, trained and sold them for many years.
I have had almost no expereince with bird dogs, but have had a lot of cow dogs (catahoula). My freind offered to train this GSP for me for nothing, so we could hunt over them this next season. Did I ask him if these dogs were certified, NO! Does it make me any difference, NO! I wont look a gift horse in the mouth!
None of his other dogs, and he has quite a few, show any symptoms of any problems of any sort. This breeder doesn't have any fancy big time kennel, his dogs sell by word of mouth.
Personaly, I wouldn't pay 500.00 or more for a dog, but that is just how I roll.
My daughter bought a female GSP puppy from a from someone that had an ad in the local paper. She had the puppy micro-chipped and sent her registration forms off, about 2 weeks later they came back only to find out that the mother and father were brother and sister out of the same litter! The man that my daughter had bought her puppy from had bought his dogs from the same man that had given me my puppy. He only paid $250.00 for them. When I told my friend about this he immiediatly called the man and gave him a very stern talking to. He was wanting $700.00 each for these puppies, but he told my daughter that he would let her have one for $500.00. Talk about a rip-off! This man knew what he had done but I guess it didn't make him any diference. Had I known that she was going to buy a puppy from him, I wouldn't have let this happen.
My daughter sent a signed letter to the editor of the local newspaper addressing this matter, so nobody else would get ripped off like she did. The local paper didn't have the spine to print it though.
My freind would have given her a puppy, cause thats the kind of guy he is.
Bartender, bring me anything except brake fluid, cause I don't plan on stopping!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: twostrike]
#664076
05/11/09 03:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,868
Chet
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,868 |
You are right, when I first got interested in field trials I was in Wichita Kansas and met Manuel Casado who owned a multiple Nat Shooting Dog Champion named Easy Mark. Marks full brother Plum Thicket Sam was owned by a Dr. in KC and lived in the house full time. He was trialed sparingly and hunted hard. Alot of folks who saw him said he was a better dog then Mark. They can live in the house and tear it up in the field...........
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