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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663921
04/07/09 04:53 PM
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Knew this was going to happen to this thread lol
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#663922
04/07/09 04:55 PM
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kbobbjr
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It's funny that the overwhelming majority says they buy from high end kennels.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663923
04/07/09 07:07 PM
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Quote:
It's funny that the overwhelming majority says they buy from high end kennels.
Dont we all?? lol   
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663924
04/07/09 07:53 PM
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TexasEd
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Getting a dog from parents with unknown health records is kind of like buying a used car without having a mechanic check it out first.
You could get a great car, but the transmission could also fall out next week.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#663925
04/07/09 08:26 PM
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kbobbjr
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Quote:
Quote:
It's funny that the overwhelming majority says they buy from high end kennels.
Dont we all?? lol
ROTFLMAO!!!  
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663926
04/07/09 09:10 PM
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Exbellicus
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Exbellicus]
#663927
04/07/09 09:47 PM
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Quote:
LMAO! How true, how true!
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#663928
04/08/09 12:17 AM
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Fooshman
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Anyone have any litters on the ground? 
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Fooshman]
#663929
04/08/09 01:24 AM
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2000cbr929
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Not that my opinion matters here among "experts", but my selection in my new pup was based on the following. 1. Study the breed standards and know that when you are looking at a litter the parents fit into the proper height/weight over all size and temperament requirement for the breed. 2. Decide if you want a good looking "Foo Foo" dog that looks like the breed has perfect confirmation, but may have through the years searching for perfect confirmation had some of the instinct bred out of it, or search for a dog with good confirmation proper health certification and good looks that is from actual working stock. 3. For me was to find a breeding that fit all of the above incuding all of the health tests and was on the high end of height and weight for the particular breed from a "decent" pedigree as best as I could determine what "decent" was regarding the particular breed. That also came with several references of whom I called and verified or justified my decsion to stick with a certain breeder and certain pairing. 4. Determine from several conversations with the breeder just what kind of breeder you are dealing with. Is he helpful? Is he concerned with the over all livelyhood of the puppy you are purchasing from him? How does he treat his dogs? Too many other questions to ponder that I could go on all day. I for one had a certain criteria for my dog to fit into before he could even be considered, and I stuck to it and was prepared to pay how ever much or little to get what I wanted. Thankfully I ended up with a dog that did not break the bank and as of now is showing much promise from small things like potty training to learning whoa, and retrieving at the wee age of 16 weeks maybe too early for most, but this dog will hunt. He is smart, quick to learn, has huge feet, great will, fantastic looks, and after 2 vet visits been given the seal of approval. Ranger is his name, and he has a nice pedigree, from a high end breeder that cost me around what you would expect to pay for a typical GSP.   
 After eating Payne's sausage I don't know if I can go back to the regular store bought stuff. "Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money" Tom T Hall
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: 2000cbr929]
#663930
04/08/09 01:29 AM
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garrett
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Attention rickym, this is not a troll post, just a good hearted fun type of post
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: garrett]
#663931
04/08/09 04:48 AM
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Guy
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I think what many (the uneducated) miss is the “risk” with buy from a back yard breeder. When I bought my Molly, I was “uneducated”, I shopped hard for her, but I did not know what I was doing. I purchased not from a reputable breeder, but this guy was a serious hunter, he breed for his own personal friends and personal use. He was very professional, and seemed like a solid person, but what I was most impressed with was his kennels, very clean, he had a really nice set-up. I paid $400 for Molly, I felt like at the time I was paying a lot more than I should, but I was just impressed with this guy. That was then, I was uneducated, now I’m more educated, namely because of this forum. I realize now the risk I took then. I have had many worries of hip dysplasia with my dog (as I have become more educated on the issues), she will be 4 yr old this September, I have not had her tested yet. She has been fixed, so is there a reason why I should get her tested? Is there some benefit to catching this stuff early? Anyways, my point is, if you buy from a backyard breeder, I think it is because you just do not realize the risks you are taking. My next dog I will pay top dollar for and will buy from the best, you pour your life and soul into a dog, a little more $$$ is worth it to minimize risk of health issue, and getting dog with a pedigree (proven trainability) is just bonus. JMO!!! 
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Guy]
#663932
04/08/09 05:54 AM
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DoubleB20
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I have to agree with Sniper John. There are such things as high end back yard breeders. One would be hard pressed to find better pedigreed dogs than I have, but I'm not a big fancy kennel. Health tests done, careful selection of dogs, I love dogs and puppies are fun! I've seen some of the biggest kennels in the country, I've met more careful and considerate high end back yard breeders. The big name kennels are in it for the money, nothing wrong with that, but a big name doesn't always mean best pedigrees or highest quality dogs. But, to each his own. The initial price is a drop in the bucket compared to the time and effort required to get your dog where you want it to be. A quality, top shelf pedigreed puppy doesn't have to come from big name kennel.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: DoubleB20]
#663933
04/08/09 07:20 AM
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EricW
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Backyard breeders and Walmart parking lot sellers are one of the major factors fueling passage of regulatory laws. Esp. the spay/neuter laws present in certain areas of Texas and on statewide agenda. You think your BY dogs are cheap now, wait till responsible people have to suffer for the irresponsible and legislation shifts the supply/demand curves and your $200 dog is now $800 due to fees paid to the state just to keep their dogs intact to breed. I'd rather support responsible, warranted bred pups and pay an extra $300 to $400. Not to mention, I can tell you first hand from some years of training dogs for gun dogs, there is a huge difference in trainability between well bred and backyard bred dogs. Backyard bred dogs that end up at the kennels generally cost people twice as much money and twice as much time and they end up with half the dog. Even then, some dogs never make it more than just a house dog.
I have known of well bred dogs for a measly $500-$600 with a 27 month health guarantee. These are from legitimate hunting dogs and pedigrees. Many people claim "hunting" dogs when they backyard breed. Well heck, my American bulldog will go out and get a duck hunting, but would she make a "meat" dog? Hell no. I once got an English bulldog to retrieve a duck. So just because a BY bred lab gets a duck, doesn't make him a hunting dog.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: DoubleB20]
#663934
04/08/09 07:25 AM
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EricW
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Quote:
I have to agree with Sniper John. There are such things as high end back yard breeders. One would be hard pressed to find better pedigreed dogs than I have, but I'm not a big fancy kennel. Health tests done, careful selection of dogs, I love dogs and puppies are fun! I've seen some of the biggest kennels in the country, I've met more careful and considerate high end back yard breeders. The big name kennels are in it for the money, nothing wrong with that, but a big name doesn't always mean best pedigrees or highest quality dogs. But, to each his own. The initial price is a drop in the bucket compared to the time and effort required to get your dog where you want it to be. A quality, top shelf pedigreed puppy doesn't have to come from big name kennel.
There is a difference between backyard bred dog and responsible breeding. I think when you are talking about high end backyard bred dogs, you are talking about responsible breeding. I don't have kennels or a business, but if I bred my dogs, it does not constitute backyard bred. The problem with the poll is there isn't enough or the right options. None of my dogs came from high end kennels, but none of them were backyard bred either.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: EricW]
#663935
04/08/09 04:51 PM
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westtexaswatkins
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I agree with you Eric but if you put backyard bred on this forum, you will be considered to have a less than quality dog. The things you mentioned about responsible breeding don't matter to most on this Hunting Dog forum, I have found that out very quickly. Watch out here comes Angie
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663936
04/08/09 04:55 PM
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Quote:
I agree with you Eric but if you put backyard bred on this forum, you will be considered to have a less than quality dog. The things you mentioned about responsible breeding don't matter to most on this Hunting Dog forum, I have found that out very quickly. Watch out here comes Angie
Not necessarily. Lots of individuals have high quality bred dogs, health clearances and good to great bloodlines. THEY are NOT backyard breeders! A backyard breeder....ugh im not even going to go into it.... 
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs *DELETED*
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663937
04/09/09 03:55 AM
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Angie B
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: Angie B]
#663938
04/09/09 06:43 AM
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Sniper John
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I'm going to post up rule #6 and #7 as a reminder to everyone. Though not every part of those apply to this thread, it could easily take a wrong turn. Lots of good points being made. Lets just keep comments in respect to each persons view. Cool? 6. We promote a friendly atmosphere for hunters to exchange ideas. Differences of opinions are welcome and are an important part of this format. We do not, however, tolerate those that try to start an argument with every post. If you are looking to agitate people, simply to get a response or if you are a troller, this is not the place for you. Warnings are issued and if the behavior continues, administrators will revoke posting privileges. 7. No personal attacks – if you disagree with someone, state your case intelligently and back it up with facts. You will be warned once. If the behavior continues, you will be banned from the forum for at least a month and possibly permanently. DO NOT HARASS PEOPLE WITH EMAIL OR VIA PM WHEN YOU HAVE A DISAGREEMENT ON THE FORUM.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663939
04/09/09 03:52 PM
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kbobbjr
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Quote:
The things you mentioned about responsible breeding don't matter to most on this Hunting Dog forum, I have found that out very quickly.
You would be totally incorrect sir. If you read through all the posts on this subject many of us harp on the importance of responsible breeding. Are you a responsible breeder? Are you going to test (hips/eyes/elbows/CNM/EIC/PRA)the sire and dam before breeding for this upcoming litter of pups you're talking about whelping?
Also, for clarification sake, in my mind a backyard breeder isn't a responsible breeder and a responsible breeder isn't a backyard breeder no matter where the breeding takes place.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663940
04/09/09 04:49 PM
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westtexaswatkins
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The only problem I have is If I do everything that all the high end breeders want me too, then I will be one of them, and my prices would be like theirs. If everyone like me with quality dogs not highend kennel dogs quits and never breed a dog again, there would be a monopoly for them (highend breeders). Their prices would go up and you would have to pay several thousand dollars for a labrador retriever. I can assure you my dogs are well taken care of(and healthy), not only by my family but by our vet. He sees no problem with breeding. If it comes down too it, a potential buyer (not gonna bother him to please the nay sayers on here) could contact him.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: kbobbjr]
#663941
04/09/09 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
The things you mentioned about responsible breeding don't matter to most on this Hunting Dog forum, I have found that out very quickly.
You would be totally incorrect sir. If you read through all the posts on this subject many of us harp on the importance of responsible breeding. Are you a responsible breeder? Are you going to test (hips/eyes/elbows/CNM/EIC/PRA)the sire and dam before breeding for this upcoming litter of pups you're talking about whelping?
Also, for clarification sake, in my mind a backyard breeder isn't a responsible breeder and a responsible breeder isn't a backyard breeder no matter where the breeding takes place.
Question for ya kbobb...so are you saying that someone who has taken the time to OFA their dog in all manners, paid to have their dog bred or bred to another of their own with the same qualifications, has great bloodlines and is a titled dog, whether it be hunt test or field trials, is not a responsible breeder just because they dont do it for a living and dont have a big kennel set up???
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: westtexaswatkins]
#663942
04/09/09 06:01 PM
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First_Chance
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Quote:
The only problem I have is If I do everything that all the high end breeders want me too, then I will be one of them, and my prices would be like theirs. If everyone like me with quality dogs not highend kennel dogs quits and never breed a dog again, there would be a monopoly for them (highend breeders). Their prices would go up and you would have to pay several thousand dollars for a labrador retriever. I can assure you my dogs are well taken care of(and healthy), not only by my family but by our vet. He sees no problem with breeding. If it comes down too it, a potential buyer (not gonna bother him to please the nay sayers on here) could contact him.
No, you would be a "responsible breeder" and could guarantee the health of your dogs. You seem to be looking at this wrong, IMO. I'm sure you take care of your dogs and they are "healthy" by your standards.
I’m going to give this one more shot… I’m not a breeder and I am by no means an expert so I can’t explain what a true breeder like Angie or others ("nay-sayers" as you have called them) could, but what all of these guys are trying to get across to you is, specifically, is how do you know you have good "healthy", "quality" dogs (throughout their bloodlines)?? Because your vet says so?? You can ONLY know that by testing, xraying them and researching their backgrounds, etc. and if you can't be certain that you will not be passing down genetic issues from untested dogs, you probably shouldn't be bredding them.
Labs (the breed) have had a serious influx of genetic issues over the last few decades because of several factors. One major issue, is their popularity in general has increased the ability for people to be able to breed them and make money, dogs that are not necessarily genetically sound have been bred over and over and those undesirable genes have been spread throughout the breed. Whatever term you want to use when talking about breeders, it's reaally all just semantics, but TRUE purists of the breed, “responsible breeders”, if you will, recognize the importance of not allowing this type of uncontrolled (untested) breeding to propagate. It causes inferior dogs to be introduced and reintroduced thus magnifying the effects to the gene pool for years to come. What you obviously consider harmless, providing a quality "untested" dog to someone that wants one at a reasonable price, is considered a big NO-NO in the gundog community where people that consider the genetic soundness of the dogs they train, breed and title to be first and foremost. Really, it's not about being "high end" vs "backyard" or whatever and to put it bluntly, they just understand and care a whole lot more about the dogs (Labs, THE BREED) than you do and that is why you are experiencing what a lot of us understand to be “PASSION” about this subject. It's the bigger picture, much bigger that they are talking about.
I realize you got piled on, and probably shouldn't have, but you’ll never win the argument around here and you should expect a caustic reaction for what is considered by some as “irresponsibility” towards a outstanding breed of dog.
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#663943
04/09/09 06:13 PM
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Nicely said FC! 
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#663944
04/09/09 08:03 PM
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kbobbjr
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The things you mentioned about responsible breeding don't matter to most on this Hunting Dog forum, I have found that out very quickly.
You would be totally incorrect sir. If you read through all the posts on this subject many of us harp on the importance of responsible breeding. Are you a responsible breeder? Are you going to test (hips/eyes/elbows/CNM/EIC/PRA)the sire and dam before breeding for this upcoming litter of pups you're talking about whelping?
Also, for clarification sake, in my mind a backyard breeder isn't a responsible breeder and a responsible breeder isn't a backyard breeder no matter where the breeding takes place.
Question for ya kbobb...so are you saying that someone who has taken the time to OFA their dog in all manners, paid to have their dog bred or bred to another of their own with the same qualifications, has great bloodlines and is a titled dog, whether it be hunt test or field trials, is not a responsible breeder just because they dont do it for a living and dont have a big kennel set up???
NOOO!!!  That is not what I'm saying. If a person does what you stated then, in my opinion, they are a very responsible breeder. Maybe this will clear it up.
Backyard Breeder - anyone, individual or established kennel (could also be called a puppy mill), that doesn't breed for the purpose of bettering the breed. Do not perform health checks/certs. Breeds dogs just to breed them and make a little money on the side.
Responsible Breeder - anyone, individual or established kennel, that does breed for the purpose of bettering the breed. Do perform health checks/certs. They do it to provide quality dogs to those of us who do not breed dogs. They want to see the breed improve, thrive and succeed.
Does that make sense or did I confuse you more?
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Re: Where do you buy your Hunting Dogs
[Re: First_Chance]
#663945
04/09/09 08:07 PM
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kbobbjr
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Quote:
.... a outstanding breed of dog.
FC, did you just say something nice about Labs???
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