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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7351237
11/17/18 04:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,992
ChadTRG42
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7351266
11/17/18 05:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,992
ChadTRG42
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Imo ammo needs to be within 20-30 FPS of the advertised velocity using the test length barrel. Yeah, that's not possible. There are way too many variables to get that close. Say you loaded up one lot of a specific amount of powder in a round, say 43 grains of H4350 powder in a 6.5 CM, and then changed lots of powder. You can load the same H4350 powder, but a different lot # with the same 43 grains, and get a totally different speed. Once when I changed lots of H4350 powder, I gained 120 fps in my 260 Rem with the same powder charge. The only change was the lot number of H4350. If you want it within 20-30 fps every time, you will need to get test the new powder lots in your rifle to adjust the speeds. Or, just account for the new speed.
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7351288
11/17/18 06:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,599
kmon11
junior
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junior
Joined: Sep 2006
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Imo ammo needs to be within 20-30 FPS of the advertised velocity using the test length barrel. If you want it within 20-30 fps every time, you will need to get test the new powder lots in your rifle to adjust the speeds. Or, just account for the new speed. Only way I know of to avoid that is to purchase enough powder, bullets and brass to burn out the barrel of your rifle and roll your own with exact powder charges and uniform case prep. Even then as a barrel gets sot more and ages velocity can change. Most will never do that
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: kmon11]
#7351319
11/17/18 06:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,359
J.G.
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Imo ammo needs to be within 20-30 FPS of the advertised velocity using the test length barrel. If you want it within 20-30 fps every time, you will need to get test the new powder lots in your rifle to adjust the speeds. Or, just account for the new speed. Only way I know of to avoid that is to purchase enough powder, bullets and brass to burn out the barrel of your rifle and roll your own with exact powder charges and uniform case prep. Even then as a barrel gets sot more and ages velocity can change. Most will never do that That's what I do. 16 pounds at a time. Out of powder, time for a barrel. Load development once, and run it. Formed brass will speed up the load. And a speed up is likely at 200+ rounds. So up to 200 to 250 rounds, I shoot it a whole bunch. My 7 Rem Mag was built in 2012, and I'm on the same powder lot. I know the corrections are not going to change. Rifle, ammo, Mil scope is one system.
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7351578
11/18/18 03:01 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,320
Crews
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I met a customer out at Jason's range to chrono his Hornady 6.5 CM factory ammo. He said nothing would line up on his drop charts and couldn't figure it out. The Hornady Black box ammo (140 BTHP) was running 2540 fps and the Hornady Match 140 ELD-M was running 2560 fps. Box said 2700 fps. That's a lot of variation! He was mad. He had spent a lot of range time trying to figure out why nothing lined up on his drop chart. I had also brought some of my ammo to shoot. Not only did it shoot better, but it was almost dead on for the velocity which is what he needed.
There is so much ridiculousness in this statement that I don’t even know where to start. The fact that anyone thinks they can just read a MV off a box of ammo and consider it representative is just silly. And yes, that goes for the custom ammo maker that’s saying his ammo is better because it just so happens the advertised test MV matched up with the MV of some random rifle. Yes, I’m aware your ammo is probably better, but this is not the reason why. Here’s a tip folks... muzzle velocities can’t be generalized. There are too many factors. 8 different rifles with the same length barrel are going to have 8 different muzzle velocities with the exact same ammo. Is it enough to make a difference? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the circumstances. It’s up to you to figure it out. It’s not hard, and you can get pretty damned close without having a chrono AT ALL! Here’s the catch... you actually have to get out from behind the computer and go shoot. Get some real world dope and back into an accurate MV in the calculator.
Last edited by Crews; 11/18/18 03:08 AM.
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: Crews]
#7351581
11/18/18 03:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,359
J.G.
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I met a customer out at Jason's range to chrono his Hornady 6.5 CM factory ammo. He said nothing would line up on his drop charts and couldn't figure it out. The Hornady Black box ammo (140 BTHP) was running 2540 fps and the Hornady Match 140 ELD-M was running 2560 fps. Box said 2700 fps. That's a lot of variation! He was mad. He had spent a lot of range time trying to figure out why nothing lined up on his drop chart. I had also brought some of my ammo to shoot. Not only did it shoot better, but it was almost dead on for the velocity which is what he needed.
There is so much ridiculousness in this statement that I don’t even know where to start. The fact that anyone thinks they can just read a MV off a box of ammo and consider it representative is just silly. And yes, that goes for the custom ammo maker that’s saying his ammo is better because it just so happens the advertised test MV matched up with the MV of some random rifle. Here’s a tip folks... muzzle velocities can’t be generalized. There are too many factors. 8 different rifles with the same length barrel are going to have 8 different muzzle velocities with the exact same ammo. Is it enough to make a difference? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the circumstances. It’s up to you to figure it out. It’s not hard, and you can get pretty damned close without having a chrono AT ALL! Here’s the catch... you actually have to get out from behind the computer and go shoot. Get some real world dope and back into an accurate MV in the calculator. Exactly right.
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7351744
11/18/18 02:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 45
Maxlab
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Apr 2015
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I have never had a problem with Nosler ammo and I shoot a 28 Nosler built by Horizon. Rifle shoots in the .2 with Nosler factory ammo. I also have two other rifle built by Horizon all shoot in the .2 using Nosler factory ammo. Chad I did try your ammo on my 257 WBY, you sent me a sample packet. It was the worst ammo I ever shot. Groups were from 1.25 inches - 2.75 inches. The ammo was so hot, my Bolt was sticking and getting stuck. Your ammo is not always the better choice. I was actually very disappointed with the ammo you sent me. So for now I will stay with Factory ammo. I’m also getting 3048 FPS from the 175 LR AB Factory ammo.
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: Maxlab]
#7351961
11/18/18 07:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,177
DH3
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I have never had a problem with Nosler ammo and I shoot a 28 Nosler built by Horizon. Rifle shoots in the .2 with Nosler factory ammo. I also have two other rifle built by Horizon all shoot in the .2 using Nosler factory ammo. Chad I did try your ammo on my 257 WBY, you sent me a sample packet. It was the worst ammo I ever shot. Groups were from 1.25 inches - 2.75 inches. The ammo was so hot, my Bolt was sticking and getting stuck. Your ammo is not always the better choice. I was actually very disappointed with the ammo you sent me. So for now I will stay with Factory ammo. I’m also getting 3048 FPS from the 175 LR AB Factory ammo. A couple people have figured out that this blog is being used as a sales pitch...At last!!
Old age and treachery beats youth and stupid every time!
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: Maxlab]
#7352013
11/18/18 09:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,426
jeffbird
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I have never had a problem with Nosler ammo and I shoot a 28 Nosler built by Horizon. Rifle shoots in the .2 with Nosler factory ammo. I also have two other rifle built by Horizon all shoot in the .2 using Nosler factory ammo.... Seems I am the only guy on this forum that has to work for rifles to hit 1 MOA consistently and that is with handholds and practice. I appreciate Chad, FJG, and others, sharing information and experience. My grand dad used to say, "if you can't do business with your friends, how are you going to do business with your enemies?"
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: DH3]
#7352136
11/18/18 11:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,359
J.G.
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I have never had a problem with Nosler ammo and I shoot a 28 Nosler built by Horizon. Rifle shoots in the .2 with Nosler factory ammo. I also have two other rifle built by Horizon all shoot in the .2 using Nosler factory ammo. Chad I did try your ammo on my 257 WBY, you sent me a sample packet. It was the worst ammo I ever shot. Groups were from 1.25 inches - 2.75 inches. The ammo was so hot, my Bolt was sticking and getting stuck. Your ammo is not always the better choice. I was actually very disappointed with the ammo you sent me. So for now I will stay with Factory ammo. I’m also getting 3048 FPS from the 175 LR AB Factory ammo. A couple people have figured out that this blog is being used as a sales pitch...At last!! When I have customers coming, I always ask what rifle, scope, and ammo they are bringing. Many have to buy ammo before they come out. I always point them to Chad. And ALWAYS, we get a tight zero at 100 yards, then run out to 800, without issue. Maybe using recently obtained DOPE, backing into muzzle velocity works out differently than what is printed on the ammo box, but it holds very consistent. Once we've got data to 800 yards, box to box will reach out and do the same thing again and again. Maybe the printed data was for a different barrel length than what the end user has. Fine, the MV can be found, without a chronograph. So Chad has a small handful of customer tales of less than desired results. He also has 1000 fold customers and myself spotting for his ammo that says he does damn good work. Are you infallible? I am not, and neither is Chad. Weatherby ammo is a pain in the donkey anyway.
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7353625
11/20/18 04:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,432
rickt300
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 2,432 |
Personally I won't reload ammo for a rifle I can't test fire rounds in. That said a few years ago I bought 8 boxes of Remington 30-06 ammo on sale for less than $10. a box. At the next chance I got I went to the range to sight in my 30-06 and to empty some brass for reloading. It was 150 grain PSPCL and out of my rifle the chrony averaged 2987 fps for 10 shots! The rifle is a 03 Springfield with a 2 groove 23" barrel on it. My chrony operator said he had never seen factory ammo come that close to advertised velocity speed. Another oddity was that the reamer that is supposed to clean up the primer pocket did not go to the bottom of the primer pocket so the brass was of no use to me for reloading! It shot OK so I used it some for hunting and it was pretty effective on deer and feral hogs. Don't think my reloads would put in a better performance.
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7354258
11/21/18 04:26 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 481
Railhead
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
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Posts: 481 |
I’ve not purchased or used Chads ammo, however he has taken the time to offer some good information via pm on this site and answer his phone and discuss an issue I had that’s covered in the first sentence of his post. I find his and others willingness to offer their experience, opinions and suggestions to be useful. If he can get a conversation started about what he experienced and make a sale, that’s even better. 3000 FPS, 30-06 150g Nosler Partiion Trophy Grade. Says it right on the box!!
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Re: Big problem with factory ammo velocity!! Getting it to work!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7355844
11/23/18 01:12 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,260
Smokey Bear
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Two issues at play here; The first one is the fellow that purchased the 28 Nosler knew what he wanted but didn't have the knowledge to know how to get there. Hopefully he learned the importance of finding a load that shoots to the standard he expects before gathering Dope. We all have to learn. Sometimes mistakes are expensive. The second is you should not be surprised to see a business man hawk his services. That's just business.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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