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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ltsheets]
#5083425
04/23/14 01:49 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,222
wp75169
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,222 |
Heck idk. Any of your custom rigs vs my stock unbedded rifle. 5 five shot groups for a total of 25 rounds. Since some one said above it wouldn't do it consistently that should cover it. As many warm up shots as you want. I guess average all five groups. Best average wins. You can pick the yardage from 100-400. Bet is a 12 pack.
Can you tell i made that up as I went along.
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ltsheets]
#5083427
04/23/14 01:50 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320 |
Lol. You betting me or him. I am confused
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ltsheets]
#5083429
04/23/14 01:51 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320 |
I know we are both going to range next month same time to get my rifle and Kacee's ready for Africa trip.
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: BMD]
#5083438
04/23/14 01:56 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,222
wp75169
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,222 |
Lol. You betting me or him. I am confused Heck I was betting you. But I can buy more than one 12pk.
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ltsheets]
#5083446
04/23/14 02:02 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320 |
Come on out and shoot with us I will buy beer just for you driving out
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ltsheets]
#5083453
04/23/14 02:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,222
wp75169
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,222 |
Let me know where and when and I'll try to make it.
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ltsheets]
#5083460
04/23/14 02:09 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,262
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,262 |
I'm not a crack shot by any means, but I can shoot one inch groups at 100 yards with any of my rifles, none of which have bedded receivers. I shoot my tightest groups with a Remington ADL that doesn't have a bedded receiver, nor a free floated barrel.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: Karnis]
#5083497
04/23/14 02:25 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,384
nsmike
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,384 |
You forgot to post the factory offerings that won't stabilize properly in a 1-10 twist which is standard for a .308.
We'll all be waiting with baited breath...... I'm done with this thread after this reply. It's not that different weights don't stabilize in 1/10 twist barrels it that different sporter weight barrels have different harmonics and may shoot different bullet weights differently. Some rifles shoot flat based bullets better than boattails some are the opposite.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: nsmike]
#5083507
04/23/14 02:33 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502 |
Why are you so sure that a rifle that has loose action screws is also improperly bedded. I bet the OP gets his groups down under 1 1/2 inches by tightening them. I expect he can shave another 1/2 in off by finding a bullet the rifle likes. If you want smaller then perhaps you need to have a rifle built from scratch because a lot of factory spec barrels won't shoot smaller then 3/4. While your at it explain how Fireman JG's unbedded rifle shoots 1/4" groups. I'm sure the 600 dollar synthetic stock and mag box assembly have zero to do with it. You should of asked JG about the components, that more or less accomplish the same thing as pillar/ bedding.
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ltsheets]
#5083549
04/23/14 02:58 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,955
ChadTRG42
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,955 |
Ya'll can take a decent thread and crap all over it. Who gives a [censored] at this point.
I've seen many unbedded factory rifles shoot very well for a hunting gun. BR and hunting rifles are 2 totally different concepts.
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5083575
04/23/14 03:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502 |
Ya'll can take a decent thread and crap all over it. Who gives a shot at this point.
I've seen many unbedded factory rifles shoot very well for a hunting gun. BR and hunting rifles are 2 totally different concepts. I get that but its still part of the process of elimination when having accuracy issues. Makes little sense if your gun is moa or better in all types of environmental conditions but if its not why not do it. Cheap insurance. Why not go a head a true /blueprint an action if your going to rebarrel same kind of deal
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5083582
04/23/14 03:16 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,732
HorizonFirearms
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,732 |
Ya'll can take a decent thread and crap all over it. Who gives a shot at this point.
I've seen many unbedded factory rifles shoot very well for a hunting gun. BR and hunting rifles are 2 totally different concepts. I get that but its still part of the process of elimination when having accuracy issues. Makes little sense if your gun is moa or better in all types of environmental conditions but if its not why not do it. Cheap insurance. Why not go a head a true /blueprint an action if your going to rebarrel same kind of deal Yep... by the way your stock shipped today and your barrel is getting contoured next week so bout 10-14 days out back to ya. So getting really close
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5083583
04/23/14 03:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180 |
Why are you so sure that a rifle that has loose action screws is also improperly bedded. I bet the OP gets his groups down under 1 1/2 inches by tightening them. I expect he can shave another 1/2 in off by finding a bullet the rifle likes. If you want smaller then perhaps you need to have a rifle built from scratch because a lot of factory spec barrels won't shoot smaller then 3/4. While your at it explain how Fireman JG's unbedded rifle shoots 1/4" groups. I'm sure the 600 dollar synthetic stock and mag box assembly have zero to do with it. You should of asked JG about the components, that more or less accomplish the same thing as pillar/ bedding. McMillan A-5 and CDI bottom metal. Stock is not bedded. I can provide 513 yard 5 shot group and 100 yard 3 shot group if requested. Yes, Chad it gets dirty, quick. And I don't know why it turns into a wiener measuring contest.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: J.G.]
#5083591
04/23/14 03:25 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502 |
Why are you so sure that a rifle that has loose action screws is also improperly bedded. I bet the OP gets his groups down under 1 1/2 inches by tightening them. I expect he can shave another 1/2 in off by finding a bullet the rifle likes. If you want smaller then perhaps you need to have a rifle built from scratch because a lot of factory spec barrels won't shoot smaller then 3/4. While your at it explain how Fireman JG's unbedded rifle shoots 1/4" groups. I'm sure the 600 dollar synthetic stock and mag box assembly have zero to do with it. You should of asked JG about the components, that more or less accomplish the same thing as pillar/ bedding. McMillan A-5 and CDI bottom metal. Stock is not bedded. I can provide 513 yard 5 shot group and 100 yard 3 shot group if requested. Yes, Chad it gets dirty, quick. And I don't know why it turns into a wiener measuring contest. That's my point, think it would shoot just as good in a take off adl stock? Bedding is never a bad idea. Especially if you hunt multiple enviromental conditions. Is bedding the end all be all not at all but cheap insurance, just like why you have cheap mounts and rings and expensive ones, probably a good idea to lap them both.
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5083595
04/23/14 03:27 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180 |
Hell with it, I'll do it anyway. Not bedded McMillan A-5. Savage action that is unmodified, and still wearing an Accutrigger. All shots prone with rear bag, and Harris 6-9" bipod. 513 yards. 140 gr. Hornady A-max 111 yards. 130 Berger VLD, 3 shots. Ended up .09", and this aint a bench rest gun. Why bed it?
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: HorizonFirearms]
#5083596
04/23/14 03:27 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502 |
Ya'll can take a decent thread and crap all over it. Who gives a shot at this point.
I've seen many unbedded factory rifles shoot very well for a hunting gun. BR and hunting rifles are 2 totally different concepts. I get that but its still part of the process of elimination when having accuracy issues. Makes little sense if your gun is moa or better in all types of environmental conditions but if its not why not do it. Cheap insurance. Why not go a head a true /blueprint an action if your going to rebarrel same kind of deal Yep... by the way your stock shipped today and your barrel is getting contoured next week so bout 10-14 days out back to ya. So getting really close Me likey
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: J.G.]
#5083638
04/23/14 03:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320 |
Hell with it, I'll do it anyway. Not bedded McMillan A-5. Savage action that is unmodified, and still wearing an Accutrigger. All shots prone with rear bag, and Harris 6-9" bipod. 513 yards. 140 gr. Hornady A-max 111 yards. 130 Berger VLD, 3 shots. Ended up .09", and this aint a bench rest gun. Why bed it? Would it make shoot worse? Could it make it shoot even better?
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ltsheets]
#5083659
04/23/14 04:12 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 672
ltsheets
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 672 |
Wow...didn't realize I was opening such a can of worms. This thread sure exploded. Thanks to everyone who posted a reply that was helpful. I will be taking most of this into account when I take the rifle out this Sat to shoot it hopefully. I'm going to borrow a torque wrench to make sure the action screws are properly tightened and shoot a few rounds before letting the barrel cool so that I know the barrel being too clean isn't an issue. I'm then going to try a few different grain bullets of various brands and see what happens. I'll be shooting off sand bags and though I don't claim to be all world, I can certainly hold my own when it comes to being a good shot. I will take some pics of the groups I shoot if I make it out and will post either on this or a new thread for you guys to take a look at and see if that will help diagnose the issue if it's still not shooting like i'd like. Thanks again.
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: J.G.]
#5083661
04/23/14 04:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,273
blackcoal
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,273 |
Hell with it, I'll do it anyway. Not bedded McMillan A-5. Savage action that is unmodified, and still wearing an Accutrigger. All shots prone with rear bag, and Harris 6-9" bipod. 513 yards. 140 gr. Hornady A-max 111 yards. 130 Berger VLD, 3 shots. Ended up .09", and this aint a bench rest gun. Why bed it? Was this a flat top or full inlet a5 ????
The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: blackcoal]
#5083802
04/23/14 11:37 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180 |
I ordered a McMillan A-5. When it wanted to know what action to inlet for I filled in Savage short action.
BMD, no it won't get worse, and I doubt I can shoot better than that. Again, why bed it, just to say I did? It's not a hard recoiling round, and it gets shot with a brake or a suppressor. This barrel is about done so bedding is not on my to-do list. My 7 Rem Mag shooting 180's is bedded and it weighs much less. I felt it was going to be necessary, and it probably was. I never shot it un-bedded.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ltsheets]
#5083842
04/23/14 12:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320 |
Why buy insurance if you are good driver? Crap happens
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: BMD]
#5083869
04/23/14 12:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180 |
Not the same thing.
A machine is working very well, and you want to modify the machine to maybe, make it better, maybe not. I don't have time for that BS. A third of my life is spent at a fire station and the other two thirds are spent running a private rifle range and a fabrication business. I have better things to do than bed a rifle that isn't showing me it needs it.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ltsheets]
#5083874
04/23/14 12:39 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320 |
It will damn sure make it more consistent if you don't think so shoot it how you want it is yours, but to recommend not doing it is not the best plan. To each his own bedding is only another part that improves and makes a rifle more consistent.
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: BMD]
#5083935
04/23/14 01:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180 |
That's right. What's wrong with him tightening action screws and going back to the range? Maybe it'll shoot 1" for 5 at 100. Bedding might make it shoot 3/4" for 5 at 100. Maybe 1" is good enough for him, if not, bed the action. I also replied to the comments made than an un-bedded rifle won't shoot well. I proved otherwise.
The point you missed is that I was on the side of tighten everything down, go shoot the rifle. Improvement? Yes or no? If yes, good, if no, we need to look at other possibilities and one of those possibilities is to bed the action. But that is step two, not step one. I want everyone to shoot more, that's how we get better. What's it going to hurt having him tighten action screws (free by the way) and go back to the range and retest? This is science, not voodoo. Eliminate variables, one at a time.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Need Help getting a rifle to group!
[Re: ltsheets]
#5083971
04/23/14 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,727
603Country
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,727 |
I'd have a rifle bedded if nothing else worked, but on second thought maybe I'd just get rid of the rifle. I have two that are bedded and a few that aren't. The most recent (Tikka) isn't bedded, and I did worry a bit about the synthetic stock, but there was no need to worry. It's the best shooter I have.
I do have one rifle that shoots pretty good (Ruger Hawkeye in 223), but now that I have the Tikka I want the Ruger to shoot that good too. Rather than restock and bed it, I will probably have a new high dollar barrel put on it and have the action squared up. I won't have it bedded.
Somebody did say that "it can't hurt to bed it", and he's probably right. I can't argue with that, but I probably still won't go that way again.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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