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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: Grizz]
#8606586
05/27/22 08:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 26,317
Concho
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I didn't see him getting his butt handed to him at all. I thought he handled it well. This thing is a **** sandwich right now and it's going to take a while to get it all sorted out. No win situation for police as usual.....small town, probably not much training money, especially for ISD Police, poor equipment if any equipment much at all, most likely outgunned by the bad guy. I agree with you, the DPS Colonel did a great job, there wasn't much he could do to make the situation any better. The parents and residents are going through an emotional, troubling, heart breaking time, so you can't blame them for expressing anger.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606590
05/27/22 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,354
onlysmith&wesson
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For me the "Tell" is in what/who we're not hearing from. The DPS is giving all the press conferences, but this starts with the school district, and their police department. I haven't heard a word from them. Security Procedures belong to the school district, carried out by their employees and enforced by their PD. Time for them to stand and deliver on some questions.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: onlysmith&wesson]
#8606600
05/27/22 08:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 16,041
Jimbo1
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For me the "Tell" is in what/who we're not hearing from. The DPS is giving all the press conferences, but this starts with the school district, and their police department. I haven't heard a word from them. Security Procedures belong to the school district, carried out by their employees and enforced by their PD. Time for them to stand and deliver on some questions. Absolutely!
FJB - Lets Go Brandon BBB - Bring Back Better Awake - Not Woke!
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: onlysmith&wesson]
#8606604
05/27/22 08:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 26,317
Concho
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For me the "Tell" is in what/who we're not hearing from. The DPS is giving all the press conferences, but this starts with the school district, and their police department. I haven't heard a word from them. Security Procedures belong to the school district, carried out by their employees and enforced by their PD. Time for them to stand and deliver on some questions. The ISD Police Chief was there day 1 giving details, haven't seen him since.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: Concho]
#8606619
05/27/22 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,354
onlysmith&wesson
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For me the "Tell" is in what/who we're not hearing from. The DPS is giving all the press conferences, but this starts with the school district, and their police department. I haven't heard a word from them. Security Procedures belong to the school district, carried out by their employees and enforced by their PD. Time for them to stand and deliver on some questions. The ISD Police Chief was there day 1 giving details, haven't seen him since. Hmmmmmmm. Wonder why he stopped talking?
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: onlysmith&wesson]
#8606622
05/27/22 09:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 16,041
Jimbo1
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For me the "Tell" is in what/who we're not hearing from. The DPS is giving all the press conferences, but this starts with the school district, and their police department. I haven't heard a word from them. Security Procedures belong to the school district, carried out by their employees and enforced by their PD. Time for them to stand and deliver on some questions. The ISD Police Chief was there day 1 giving details, haven't seen him since. Hmmmmmmm. Wonder why he stopped talking? Hopefully, he's looking for a new line of work...after being fired of course!
FJB - Lets Go Brandon BBB - Bring Back Better Awake - Not Woke!
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606626
05/27/22 09:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 26,317
Concho
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Exactly why every town or at least every county needs a SWAT team and when something like this happens, rank should not come into play, the SWAT leader should be the commander of the incident. People not trained in SWAT operations just simply do not have the training to command this type incident. Appears at least that OLD school police tactics were used in this school shooting and those tactics just don't work with an active shooter.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: cbump]
#8606634
05/27/22 09:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,314
ntxtrapper
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It’s not normal and not what’s trained. Just curious. Did your training address what the response should be if the shooter is isolated, barricaded and stops shooting for several minutes?
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606637
05/27/22 09:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,865
The Dude Abides
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I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606671
05/27/22 10:07 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,410
Huntmaster
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How bout giving all the officers on the scene immunity on cases like that. They can spray that room left and right, up and down, blow the door open with a 5 gallon can of nitroglycerin, and then toss a stick of dynamite wherever they think he’s holed up. Several innocent people get killed; no big deal, we know nobody will ever sue anybody. Or go find all Audie Murphy’s or Hal Moores and only hire them.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606700
05/27/22 10:41 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,210
Smokey Bear
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How ‘bout stop making excuses for the lack of response now that we know what we know.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606710
05/27/22 10:56 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,410
Huntmaster
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Obviously a deeply concerned citizen.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606734
05/27/22 11:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 220
kkfish
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Without going to far down the rabbit hole I saw that one little kid talking about being in that class and was talking just like it was just another day. No emotion whatsoever. Most kids wouldn’t be available to talk to if they had been in that spot. This whole thing stinks that’s all I’ll say.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: Concho]
#8606737
05/27/22 11:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,907
luv2brode
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I didn't see him getting his butt handed to him at all. I thought he handled it well. This thing is a **** sandwich right now and it's going to take a while to get it all sorted out. No win situation for police as usual.....small town, probably not much training money, especially for ISD Police, poor equipment if any equipment much at all, most likely outgunned by the bad guy. I agree with you, the DPS Colonel did a great job, there wasn't much he could do to make the situation any better. The parents and residents are going through an emotional, troubling, heart breaking time, so you can't blame them for expressing anger. The small town not much money for training don’t fly. There are free trainings (allert) to train first responders for these situations and have a standard of training and responses Other than that and it was a bad day I won’t comment at this point too much unknown
i am cancelling my subscription, i am tired of your issues!
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606754
05/28/22 12:03 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,944
hopalong
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it was reported today that the leo said they screwed up and treated it like a barricade instead of active shooter, the door was also locked and no entry could be made without the key or a pry bar, breaching shotgun.
I was not in their shoes and have no idea what any were thinking but if you have to enter a 3' wide doorway against an ar then you are pretty much useless right after as you are dead. perhaps if they had shot the lock and distracted the shooter he would have not fired on any more kids but again, not there so don't know.
has anyone heard if any of the leo on scene had kids in the school? know if any of the teachers were married to any of the leo?
I have my doubts that any of the leo on scene did not want to go in but in their judgement perhaps they just got priorities wrong, they are human just like all of us and humans make mistakes sometimes. sometimes those mistakes are huge.
the one good thing is the shooter was killed, no tax money wasted on a trial and 25 yrs. of appeals of the death sentence.
Last edited by hopalong; 05/28/22 12:04 AM.
lake fork FISHERMANS COVE MARINA - 903 474 7479 reservations
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606771
05/28/22 12:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,314
ntxtrapper
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Fox 4 reported that the chief of the ISD PD was the ranking incident commander and he was the person who gave the order to wait until a CBP tactical team could arrive. I’ve never been a fan of the NIMS ICS as it gives the decision making responsibilities to the ranking person rather than the person with the knowledge and experience. Fox reported the chief could not be located today so I’m guessing he is hiding and talking with attorneys.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606794
05/28/22 12:55 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,917
Bear Charge
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I'm not a LEO and wasn't there. That's all I have to say
"Democracy is a sheep and two lions voting. Liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the vote." Ben Franklin
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: Mr. T.]
#8606803
05/28/22 01:08 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,149
glens
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According to one news outlet: Outside the school, chaos and confusion reigned as distraught parents showed up and implored law enforcement to force their way in and kill the gunman. One father even asked officers to give him their gear, he said. "I told one of the officers myself, if they didn't want to go in there, let me borrow his gun and a vest and I'll go in there myself to handle it. And they told me no," Victor Luna told CNN. His son survived. Instead, officers held parents behind yellow police tape, refusing to let them enter as crying and screaming echoed around them, several videos show. After about an hour, a US Border Patrol tactical team forced its way into the classroom and fatally shot the gunman, Escalon said.
I back the Blue every step of the way,,, This was Deplorable Police work!
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: Huntmaster]
#8606831
05/28/22 01:50 AM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,210
Smokey Bear
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Obviously a deeply concerned citizen. You are correct.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606834
05/28/22 01:59 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,919
maximum
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Who all would be outraged if some parents had went on inside the school and the responding officers didn't know they were parents or perpetrators with guns and filled the well meaning parents full of holes ? How many would be demanding the police be charged with murder ?
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: maximum]
#8606847
05/28/22 02:19 AM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,352
rolyat.nosaj
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Who all would be outraged if some parents had went on inside the school and the responding officers didn't know they were parents or perpetrators with guns and filled the well meaning parents full of holes ? How many would be demanding the police be charged with murder ? It was correct to not let parents inside. From what I am reading about what went on inside, that was not the correct action. It's a horrible tragedy but I think people should focus on what did happen and correct accordingly.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606854
05/28/22 02:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,150
Brother in-law
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I haven’t got to watch an news today
Do we know for a fact if?
1. In the final room were any kids or teachers shot?
2 Was the gunman “ pushed “ into that room because he was met with force in the hallway?
3. Was one of the first on in verbal contact with the suspect for the hour waiting for the specialized unit?
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: maximum]
#8606866
05/28/22 02:55 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,654
Sneaky
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Who all would be outraged if some parents had went on inside the school and the responding officers didn't know they were parents or perpetrators with guns and filled the well meaning parents full of holes ? How many would be demanding the police be charged with murder ? I wouldn’t be upset about it. The parent’s have every right to protect their children, even if it means risking their life. I’d dang sure be going in there.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: jskin]
#8606903
05/28/22 04:00 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 18,784
Roll-Tide
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Sound like confusion occurred after he barricaded himself in adjoining rooms 111 and 112. That sounds like where 19 were killed and 15-16 others were injured. Many 911 calls came from those 2 rooms asking for help. Was that relayed and acknowledged, I do not know.
If he was firing at the door, ideally, multiple explosive charges to blow openings in the drywall would be best, acquire the target and take him out. But without a charge, you should make do with what you have. The order to stand down for near an hour, may go down as one of the worst decisions in law enforcement.
If he was securely contained with no threat, take your time and plan the best way to kill him. Blowing him up, comes to mind.
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Re: LEO question about Uvalde shooting
[Re: Brother in-law]
#8606906
05/28/22 04:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
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I haven’t got to watch an news today
Do we know for a fact if?
1. In the final room were any kids or teachers shot?
2 Was the gunman “ pushed “ into that room because he was met with force in the hallway?
3. Was one of the first on in verbal contact with the suspect for the hour waiting for the specialized unit? All of the kids that were killed were in the classroom that he went into. One interesting fact....a teacher propped the door open that he entered, then returned to the door after gunshots outside, yet didn't shut the door. I wonder why? Monumental failures by pretty much everyone involved.
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