Something that is never addressed is that does actually genetically affect a buck as much or more than bucks. Taking out a genetically inferior buck, such as the tall narrow ones doesn’t necessarily mean you are getting rid of that gene.

That doesn't negate the genetic impact created by removing a given buck.

I only remove the fluid that's in the pan when I change the transmission fluid in my truck. The fluid that remains in the transmission doesn't negate the impact of the new fluid I added to the system. And just like adding new transmission fluid, I create a genetic impact using what I can see and gain access.

IMO, to say you're not impacting the genetic makeup of the deer that live in a given area is like saying you don't change the volume of a bucket of water when you scoop out a cup of it. Of course you do. The only question for debate is by how much. Given that research has shown that deer stay and live their entire lives within a relative small area, it would seem the impact would be much greater than some might lead others to believe.

That is correct. That is why as I wrote earlier to change genetics over the years every year the oldest Does need to be taken out. But if you are in a AR county this will actually do no good because you are having the Bucks which breed in the narrow antlers still breeding the Does. If you could take out those Bucks and also each year take out the oldest Does then eventually you could get the type of Buck you are looking for. But as it is the only thig that will change is that the narrow antlered gene will become stronger.

This is a nice big bodied buck (typical for East Texas) but won't make the A/R minimum antler spread. Too bad, would help fill the freezer.

Why do I read so much about selective hunting having basically no influence on a low fence free range herd if this "high grading" is such an issue?

It will have an influence if everyone practices the proper way of changing over a period of time the traits they are trying to get rid of. But that giving human nature is not very likely. Plus in my opinion which means squat unless the TPWS changes the rules it will only get worse.

Yep, good example.

Might continue to add tine length and mass, but not likely to ever get the inside spread desired.

He got old because no one can shoot him. The neighbors and I have watched this sucker for 4 years. A big three point the first year we saw him. Should of but didn't.

You guys crack me up. If you don't want them around SSS.

Legally and ethically wrong. Please don't make suggestions like that.

Agreed. Even if nobody knew I did something wrong I would know I did it.

Yep.

A good test of a man's character/ethics is to see what he will do when no one is watching. Good for you Sir.

He looks better than 13”

Been watching this NE TX deer for several years now. I'm pretty sure he's a five year old this year and would love to let my daughter take him, but he's just too close to risk it!

That's a nice one. Definitely give him a good look, I believe he will make it OK.

This one was just posted on the TPWD Game Wardens FB page. It was reportedly killed by a hunter in Houston County who exceeded bag limits on bucks.

I think one thing being overlooked in this thread, and in general with regards to genetics, is bucks are only half the equation. Doe carry 50% of the genetic material that goes into the next year's crop of fawns, with absolutely no way to monitor what kind of offspring they throw. The only way would be to closely monitor a given doe, and the offspring she throws, over a long period of time to determine the genetics she's contributing to the herd. The problem (one of them anyway) with this method is, by the time you get any usable data she's aged out of breeding and has been contributing, positively or negatively, to the program the whole time.

Point being, every "plan" to better a given herd is wrought with challenges.

I hunt Freestone County, historically known to be over hunted and poached. I grew up hunting property that has been in my family since 1912. Killed my first deer there back in the early 80's, a 12" wide mature 8point that was considered a good deer for the property at the time. This was still back when you could watch a young buck and let hi walk, only to hear a gun shot across the fence after he walked off in that direction. Opening weekend sounded like a war zone in our area. The "brown it's down" mentality ruled.

In my mid-20's I ventured out and began hunting leases from central, ranging out to west Texas. Saw and killed plenty of nice deer in the process. Got tired of the transient situation, bouncing from one lease to another every few years because of price increases, land sales, etc, and decided to go back to my roots (family land) about 12yrs ago. After not hunting the place at all for about 15yrs, I immediately noticed a difference in the herd on our property. More deer, and nicer bucks, also had hogs which weren't present when I left. Also noticeable were, and still are, the decrease in the amount of gunfire heard. Where I used to count shots easily into the double digits on a given hunt of opening weekend, now I might hear a half-dozen. And I know at least some of those are hogs being taken, where we had no hogs before.

Then came the antler restrictions somewhere about 5yrs +/- ago. I was indifferent because we were already not killing young deer, so for me it was a wait and see type of deal. Several years in now, and I am still not convinced the law has done as much to impact the herd as much as just a general change in the dynamic of how our, and the properties around us, are being hunted compared to how it was just 15-25yrs ago. Since I've returned to hunting the property we've had several deer taken off the place that are over 16" wide, a few 17", and two 18" wide. It was crazy to think this would happen in our particular area of the county when I was young. Small deer were just what we had, even the mature bucks. But given time, and the absence of pressure, the herd worked itself out. Funny how nature accomplishes things like that. This year I witnessed two bucks absolutely brawling, never seen before on our land. There is actually competition to breed taking place. We have deer making and using scrapes, which rarely ever happened when I was young.

Take the above rambling for what it's worth, likely not much. Just my experience.