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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7616286
09/25/19 09:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,660
Dustnsand
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[quote=Texas buckeye] 1. No duty to retreat. Especially in her own home. . Also see #6 2. She believed it was her home, not his. 3. Reportedly...... She gave commands he didn’t follow. 4. She was in full uniform with a gun pointed at him and yet he still continued to approach. 5. Reportedly...... He was shot at a distance of 13’. At that distance a non-responsive male approaching her is a huge threat and also no longer at a safe distance to retreat from. He could close that gap before she could even get out of the way. 6. She has a different mindset than you in that she has had extensive training to not retreat from a threat.
1 - Not in her own home. Had no reason to be in his habitation. See 30.02 of Penal Code if desired as well. 2 - See #1 3 - See #1 4 - See #1 5 - See #1 6 - See #1 Ok Counselor..... Can you explain how Sec. 30.02. BURGLARY, applies to this case?? But if you want to play that card..... It further strengthens her defense that she did not commit Burglary. Specially if she believed it to be her own home. Plus “reportedly”..... she did not do so “with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.” What if I go get high then go into the wrong apartment thinking 100% in my mind it is my apartment with no intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault?
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: bassfishinglawyer]
#7616332
09/25/19 09:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
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Ok Counselor..... Can you explain how Sec. 30.02. BURGLARY, applies to this case?? But if you want to play that card..... It further strengthens her defense that she did not commit Burglary. Specially if she believed it to be her own home. Plus “reportedly”..... she did not do so “with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.” No intent is required - re-read the statute closely: A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner, the person: ... enters a building or habitation and commits or attempts to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.I'm sure they'll argue no felony or assault, but the definition of assault is: intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to anotherI'm done with the case until we hear a verdict. I hope everyone's dreams are fulfilled. Here the problem with your attempt to apply that to this case. She did not enter, what she thought was her own home, with the intent to commit an assault. However, while she was there, she did commit the definition of an assault, in self-defense. Using you argument this would apply to anyone that “assaults” a burglar in their own home. Sec. 30.02. BURGLARY. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner, the person: (1) enters a habitation, or a building (or any portion of a building) not then open to the public, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault; or (2) remains concealed, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault, in a building or habitation; or (3) enters a building or habitation and commits or attempts to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: Dustnsand]
#7616334
09/25/19 09:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
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[quote=Texas buckeye] 1. No duty to retreat. Especially in her own home. . Also see #6 2. She believed it was her home, not his. 3. Reportedly...... She gave commands he didn’t follow. 4. She was in full uniform with a gun pointed at him and yet he still continued to approach. 5. Reportedly...... He was shot at a distance of 13’. At that distance a non-responsive male approaching her is a huge threat and also no longer at a safe distance to retreat from. He could close that gap before she could even get out of the way. 6. She has a different mindset than you in that she has had extensive training to not retreat from a threat.
1 - Not in her own home. Had no reason to be in his habitation. See 30.02 of Penal Code if desired as well. 2 - See #1 3 - See #1 4 - See #1 5 - See #1 6 - See #1 Ok Counselor..... Can you explain how Sec. 30.02. BURGLARY, applies to this case?? But if you want to play that card..... It further strengthens her defense that she did not commit Burglary. Specially if she believed it to be her own home. Plus “reportedly”..... she did not do so “with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.” What if I go get high then go into the wrong apartment thinking 100% in my mind it is my apartment with no intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault? Then you can not be tried for Burglary. According to penal code 30.02.
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7616352
09/25/19 10:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,043
Texas buckeye
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OK, so if "I THINK" it is my home, does that by matter of law "MAKE IT MY HOME"
I have a hard time following this line of thought. Just because I think the speed limit is 70, if the speed limit is actually 55 and I get pulled over, my thoughts of the matter don't change the fact of the matter.
Similarly, just because a squatter thinks my home is theirs, it doesn't become theirs unless I abandon it, correct? If I think your home is mine, can I just walk in and assume it is mine?
THE APARTMENT WASN"T HER APARTMENT....therefore, she should not be entitled to self defense as it was her assaulting someone, not the converse.
Am I wrong here? Any lawyers feel free to speak up, because I am not one and I don't understand why this concept is eluding me...
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7616359
09/25/19 10:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,970
ChadTRG42
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A comparison I'm seeing, is if a schizophrenia patient hears something and "thinks" he's being attacked and kills someone innocent. Then because this patient thought that he was being attacked, it's ok to kill someone and they should not be held responsible. That line of thinking is what's wrong. She was in the wrong apartment by her own mistake and killed someone. It may not be murder, but it sure is something related to it, and not a self defense situation.
If you see what she did was in self defense, then that's the problem. She will be found guilty of some form of manslaughter or homicide.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7616364
09/25/19 10:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
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1. No duty to retreat. Especially in her own home. . Also see #6 It wasn't her home 2. She believed it was her home, not his. She was wrong. 3. Reportedly...... She gave commands he didn’t follow. According to her...and he may have followed them and she shot him anyway. Or she may have said, "Stop, boom,boom" within a span of half a second before he had time to respond. Nothing she says can be trusted as fact. 4. She was in full uniform with a gun pointed at him and yet he still continued to approach. Again, according to her. It was his own damn apartment, and I'm sure he wanted to see who was in his house. Maybe he didn't understand what she said and all he did was stand up or what she said was unintelligible. 5. Reportedly...... He was shot at a distance of 13’. At that distance a non-responsive male approaching her is a huge threat and also no longer at a safe distance to retreat from. He could close that gap before she could even get out of the way. Key word, "reportedly" by the killer. Do you trust a murderer to incriminate themselves? She could and should have stepped a couple feet back into the hallway. 6. She has a different mindset than you in that she has had extensive training to not retreat from a threat. Likewise she should have extensive training to not kill someone unintentionally. Which she did.
No mercy from me. Royal f-ups like this deserve a very, very stiff penalty, IMO. It's the only way to help prevent them in the future.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7616368
09/25/19 10:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,744
Mickey Moose
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...can I just walk in and assume it is mine? Well, it happens every day on our southern border so there's that. I'm kidding - only stirring the pot a little.
My botnet is bigger than yours.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7616369
09/25/19 10:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,572
ducknbass
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Not gonna read all this. Nor argue but here's my 2 cents.
I personally do not want anyone in prison for a pure d accident/ mistake. Should she be an officer? No. It does not benefit us as society by having someone like her in prison. She is not threat to society. Putting someone in prison will not make them a better person. It will not make them a productive member of society and I'll have to pay for it. Then they'll get out not be able to function in society which means.... More tax burden.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: ducknbass]
#7616373
09/25/19 10:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,043
Texas buckeye
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Not gonna read all this. Nor argue but here's my 2 cents.
I personally do not want anyone in prison for a pure d accident/ mistake. Should she be an officer? No. It does not benefit us as society by having someone like her in prison. She is not threat to society. Putting someone in prison will not make them a better person. It will not make them a productive member of society and I'll have to pay for it. Then they'll get out not be able to function in society which means.... More tax burden.
I would agree IF this were an accidental discharge (I know there is no such thing, but you know what I am saying) or a ricochet or something like that. This was someone who made a mistake and then the mistake worse by pulling the trigger on an unarmed man. She had intent to kill, it was no accident. It turns out her intent was misplaced in her wrong place, but that's on her...no accident here.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: ducknbass]
#7616377
09/25/19 10:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,970
ChadTRG42
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Not gonna read all this. Nor argue but here's my 2 cents.
I personally do not want anyone in prison for a pure d accident/ mistake. Should she be an officer? No. It does not benefit us as society by having someone like her in prison. She is not threat to society. Putting someone in prison will not make them a better person. It will not make them a productive member of society and I'll have to pay for it. Then they'll get out not be able to function in society which means.... More tax burden. I'm sure Mr. Jean would differ with those statements. She's already proven she's a threat to society by making a big mistake of entering into someone else's apartment and shooting them. No, she's not a hardened criminal, but her ignorance/stupidity caused her own problem and someone else died due to her mistake. People have to pay for their mistakes. She should have to pay for her mistake. No one wins in this deal. The worst off was Mr. Jean. That's a sad deal.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7616413
09/25/19 10:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,682
snoopy
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She’s done. The lead investigator of the Texas Rangers took the stand today, he stated that he does not believe there was an offense committed.
This testimony was not in front of the jurors. The judge decided to not allow his testimony to be presented to the jurors. She’s [censored]. To your point, she was done as soon as she pulled the trigger. White on black, his house, no trouble getting a prosecution on that one. Whatever the facts of the case and the law state, she was done as soon as she pulled the trigger. Its an unfortunate effect of the times we live in. Dallas will have a chit show riot that takes place if she gets acquitted. We all know it, the judge and prosecution know it, its is the inevitable. Sad but likely outcome of a chit show that shouldn't have happened to begin with. Exactly! This case is drenched in race politics; involving a cop compounds the situation. They MUST find her guilty of something with jail time. No matter what, the amount time won't be enough. Therefore, possible rioting and the opportunity to damage and steal stuff. We've seen versions of this movie before.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: Duck_Hunter]
#7616440
09/25/19 11:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,672
Sneaky
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[quote=Texas buckeye] 1. No duty to retreat. Especially in her own home. . Also see #6 2. She believed it was her home, not his. 3. Reportedly...... She gave commands he didn’t follow. 4. She was in full uniform with a gun pointed at him and yet he still continued to approach. 5. Reportedly...... He was shot at a distance of 13’. At that distance a non-responsive male approaching her is a huge threat and also no longer at a safe distance to retreat from. He could close that gap before she could even get out of the way. 6. She has a different mindset than you in that she has had extensive training to not retreat from a threat.
1 - Not in her own home. Had no reason to be in his habitation. See 30.02 of Penal Code if desired as well. 2 - See #1 3 - See #1 4 - See #1 5 - See #1 6 - See #1 I just can’t understand how people keep bringing no duty to retreat, SYG, Castle Law when she wasn’t in her home. It was his home. She went into the wrong home. How can you SYG or have no duty to retreat if it’s not your home? Seems like that would obviously nullify stand your ground, no duty to retreat and Castle Law. Boggles the mind, doesn’t it?
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7616445
09/25/19 11:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,960
Sniper John
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The fact she was wearing a dept issued uniform, dept issued badge, carrying a dept issued firearm and may or may not have identified herself as a police officer just before shooting may put her in an "Acting under Color of Law" situation. It is too far over my head to know if that is a good thing or bad thing for her or how it could play into a subsequent civil lawsuit.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: ducknbass]
#7616446
09/25/19 11:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,672
Sneaky
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She is not threat to society. .
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: ducknbass]
#7616452
09/25/19 11:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,358
Duck_Hunter
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Not gonna read all this. Nor argue but here's my 2 cents.
I personally do not want anyone in prison for a pure d accident/ mistake. Should she be an officer? No. It does not benefit us as society by having someone like her in prison. She is not threat to society. Putting someone in prison will not make them a better person. It will not make them a productive member of society and I'll have to pay for it. Then they'll get out not be able to function in society which means.... More tax burden.
That’s not what prison is for. Prison is a punishment. She also is obviously a danger to society.
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#7616454
09/25/19 11:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,043
Texas buckeye
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I have thought about this all day since I first heard it...is this just a cop covering up another cops mistake? What am I missing here, really what am I missing? She killed a dude. With intent. By mistaking his house for hers. Someone please tell me how this is not at least manslaughter? I just don’t get it, the nuance of the law. Recklessly causing a death vs intentionally causing a death, how do we parse the language and how do we parse the decision to charge a crime? Someone please help because I really do not get it.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#7616462
09/25/19 11:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,358
Duck_Hunter
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It wasn’t in front of the jury and the judge won’t allow him to testify his opinion in front of the jury. David Armstrong has his own past with an accident and someone dying and not being punished, despite him breaking department policy. http://lawflog.com/?p=2058(Link to the lawsuit is in that blog post, and there are also media reports about the incident if you google, but I don’t have a subscription to the SA Express, so I couldn’t read their article.)
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7616468
09/25/19 11:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,348
ntxtrapper
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I have thought about this all day since I first heard it...is this just a cop covering up another cops mistake? What am I missing here, really what am I missing? She killed a dude. With intent. By mistaking his house for hers. Someone please tell me how this is not at least manslaughter? I just don’t get it, the nuance of the law. Recklessly causing a death vs intentionally causing a death, how do we parse the language and how do we parse the decision to charge a crime? Someone please help because I really do not get it. Sec. 8.02. MISTAKE OF FACT. (a) It is a defense to prosecution that the actor through mistake formed a reasonable belief about a matter of fact if his mistaken belief negated the kind of culpability required for commission of the offense. He's a Texas Ranger and knows the Penal Code quite well I'm sure.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7616529
09/26/19 01:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,941
Simple Searcher
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I keep on hearing that she thought it was her apartment, because this is what she said. Has anyone ever considered that she intentionally went into his apartment. We will never know otherwise. So many are defending her on what she claims happened.
"Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#7616551
09/26/19 01:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,539
SnakeWrangler
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I have thought about this all day since I first heard it...is this just a cop covering up another cops mistake? What am I missing here, really what am I missing? She killed a dude. With intent. By mistaking his house for hers. Someone please tell me how this is not at least manslaughter? I just don’t get it, the nuance of the law. Recklessly causing a death vs intentionally causing a death, how do we parse the language and how do we parse the decision to charge a crime? Someone please help because I really do not get it. Sec. 8.02. MISTAKE OF FACT. (a) It is a defense to prosecution that the actor through mistake formed a reasonable belief about a matter of fact if his mistaken belief negated the kind of culpability required for commission of the offense. He's a Texas Ranger and knows the Penal Code quite well I'm sure. The fact that the judge won't let his testimony, the senior investigator of the incident, be heard by the jury sets her up for an appeal if convicted....
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7616567
09/26/19 02:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,348
ntxtrapper
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He testified, just not about his opinion. His testimony was very favorable to the defense. He testified the investigation concluded that 15% of the residents of the building on all floors have parked on the wrong floor in the garage and went to the wrong door, believing it was theirs, and put their key card in the wrong door.
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7616584
09/26/19 02:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,369
Bildo
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What would the motive be for her to go in his apartment intentionally and kill him. I have not heard any theories on this. Did I miss something
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#7616618
09/26/19 02:47 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
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He testified, just not about his opinion. His testimony was very favorable to the defense. He testified the investigation concluded that 15% of the residents of the building on all floors have parked on the wrong floor in the garage and went to the wrong door, believing it was theirs, and put their key card in the wrong door. And when it didn't work they didn't go in anyway and kill the person who lives there. Are the apartment numbers not on the door??? Or next to the door??
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Re: What is it about the Guyger trial....
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7616625
09/26/19 02:52 AM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 332
Rounder
Bird Dog
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Awww.... just send her to Gatesville for 36 months. Shut down the media b.s. and spare the innocent folks from all of the fallout that will happen.
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