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 Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: deerhunter721]
#1124654
12/23/09 08:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 880
mideon2000
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 880 |
i love low fence and my neighbors should all be low fence too! the deer can enter on my 16 acre piece of land and leave as they please (I'm surrounded by large parcels of land. plus it takes a whole lot less effort to climb a neighbors fence when I shoot somethin on their side (they usually are gone when I hunt). Do any of yall know how hard it is to cross a high fence at night while carrying a loaded weapon? It ain't fun Ill tell you that lol.
I only lie when I tell the truth.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: deerhunter721]
#1124660
12/23/09 08:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 139
deerhunter721
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 139 |
You know, some of you guys in this forum who try to put a smokescreen in front of the fact that these ranchers are selling deer, need to go to the Dallas Safari Club Convention in January @ the Dallas convention center. Talk to some of these ranches. Look at the prices. LOOK HOW THEY CHARGE and what they charge FOR. I bet you can't find ONE that just charges a fee to hunt. But you will find that ALL of them charge by the quality of deer.
If Texas wants to overlook this selling of OUR deer by ranchers, then fine, but you wont see me hunting any of their leases, and with the high prices and big business that it is becoming,it is going to destroy hunting for future generations.
Deer hunting used to be about the exitement of opening day, the comraderie in the field, camp stories, and the wildness of it all. Now it has turned into trophy fees, high fences, deer herd vaccination, ear tags, breeder bucks, management bucks, and a big lodge for the "clients" to stay in. In Texas it has changed dramatically! The hunting that I love resembles something else, but not this.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: txbobcat]
#1124671
12/23/09 08:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 490
Toepuncher
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 490 |
Too bad that a lot of high fence ranches are bigger than a whitetails normal range...
Guess that shoots down the "trapped" idea.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: deerhunter721]
#1124685
12/23/09 08:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591 |
Too bad that a lot of high fence ranches are bigger than a whitetails normal range...
Guess that shoots down the "trapped" idea.
Anyway, I hunt both and have some hunts that were more challenging in high fence ranches.
High fences started:
1. Because neighbors made it impossible to manage anything in some areas.
2. To maximize the $$$ per acre a landowner can make. If the fence was outside their normal range, how is it that the neighbors mismanagement affected it. In order to keep deer off the neighbor's land, you have to TRAP them so they CANT'T.. ...to # 2 That is exactly right. Easy anwser- Yes most ranches are larger then a deer normal range. HF are put in place to "limit"(they do not stop) to and from dispersal. Mainly your stopping the perimeter deer not the core deer. Most HF places are very in tune with the herd density, thus giving thier deer ability for optimumal nutrition. As range conditions change deer will seek other places for food. HF land owners have basically an all you can eat buffet, caluclated by percentage of deer they have... When high population of deer on the outside eat down thier natural browse, why should the HF land owner open the gate for then to come in when he has worked his arse off to maintain a proper herd numbers based on what the natural habitat can support. Basically The HF is in play becuase of lack of herd management around it... yes it has a little to do with age structure and to protect young bucks...but the biggest problem most of the state of TX has (EXCLUDING FANNIN-  your welcom Sig and Curly) is to high of a deer population of deer(manyly does)for the habitat. HF has nothing to do with profit... Unless you have a breeder operation and your turning out deer(which i disagree with, but to each thier own). Most HF operations "may" break even on hunt income vs feed and habitat improvements, most don't.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: deerhunter721]
#1124696
12/23/09 08:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591 |
You know, some of you guys in this forum who try to put a smokescreen in front of the fact that these ranchers are selling deer, need to go to the Dallas Safari Club Convention in January @ the Dallas convention center. Talk to some of these ranches. Look at the prices. LOOK HOW THEY CHARGE and what they charge FOR. I bet you can't find ONE that just charges a fee to hunt. But you will find that ALL of them charge by the quality of deer.
If Texas wants to overlook this selling of OUR deer by ranchers, then fine, but you wont see me hunting any of their leases, and with the high prices and big business that it is becoming,it is going to destroy hunting for future generations.
Deer hunting used to be about the exitement of opening day, the comraderie in the field, camp stories, and the wildness of it all. Now it has turned into trophy fees, high fences, deer herd vaccination, ear tags, breeder bucks, management bucks, and a big lodge for the "clients" to stay in. In Texas it has changed dramatically! The hunting that I love resembles something else, but not this. I lost over 200 acres of Alfala because of YOUR deer and antelope. PM your address so that I can send you a bill for YOUR deer.  I'm serious to Hunting prices have nothing to do with what or who is growing what. It has everything to do with the loss of huntable land and other hunters willing to pay more for better quality management and less people. No body wants to be on a 200 acres lease with 10 people... No one wants to be on a 1000 acre place with 20 people. How many lease have a spot open up and the other hunters pick up the tab so they don't have to add some one... A LOT!!! Wonder why. So stop blaming hunting prices on Land owners or HF's or who ever... I promise you less then 1 percent of hunters can afford those $$$ deer... so look at the other 99 percent which is you and me... Instead of blaming $$$ hungrey landowners and HF's maybe we all should look in the mirror.
Last edited by BOBO the Clown; 12/23/09 08:34 PM.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: deerhunter721]
#1124697
12/23/09 08:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,901
JJH
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,901 |
deerhunter721:
no one is denying that all the things you dislike are happening. But just becasue a place has a high fence around it doesn't mean it is one of "those places". A high fence is a tool, like a gun or a hammer. It can be used for several purposes. Just because a ranch is high fenced, doesn't mean that it has bred deer, imported genetics, deer priced by the inch, etc.
Brushing all high fenced places with the same brush us tantaount to assuming that everyone who owns a gun is a ________ (fill in the blank: murderer, terrorist, hunter, whatever.)
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: Toepuncher]
#1124698
12/23/09 08:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591 |
Too bad that a lot of high fence ranches are bigger than a whitetails normal range...
Guess that shoots down the "trapped" idea.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Not hard do a little deer research.....
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: JJH]
#1124701
12/23/09 08:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591 |
deerhunter721:
no one is denying that all the things you dislike are happening. But just becasue a place has a high fence around it doesn't mean it is one of "those places". A high fence is a tool, like a gun or a hammer. It can be used for several purposes. Just because a ranch is high fenced, doesn't mean that it has bred deer, imported genetics, deer priced by the inch, etc.
Brushing all high fenced places with the same brush us tantaount to assuming that everyone who owns a gun is a ________ (fill in the blank: murderer, terrorist, hunter, whatever.) I HATE CATTLE FENCES Becuase BLACKBUCKS AND ANTELOPE wont jump them
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#1124708
12/23/09 08:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,615
MELackey
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,615 |
I'd say it would be VERY hard to make a profit off of high fencing a place unless you were a breeder operation. High fence is EXPENSIVE. Once you have it high fenced, you have to maintain reasonably accurage population counts, provide adequate food and water, etc. The landowner typically isn't going to high fence a place and then lease it out. The return likely wouldn't be enough to bother. Maybe you can sell hunts, but that's hard to do profitibly either (unless it is one of the HUGE operations).
We're considering putting a long section of high fence just out of spite for one neighbor in particular. We spend a ton of time and money on our little management plan and have the neighbor that has 4 hunters on less than 20 acres, with all of his feeders on our fence and the stands facing the fence. We're not fencing our deer in, just "adjusting" their travel habits away from his place.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#1124716
12/23/09 08:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 490
Toepuncher
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 490 |
Too bad that a lot of high fence ranches are bigger than a whitetails normal range...
Guess that shoots down the "trapped" idea.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Not hard do a little deer research..... My disagreement is not with the normal range of a deer (yes, I could do that research but it is not relevant to my point). The fact remains that the deer are trapped. They don't have the option of ranging anywhere else. Without doing any research I can say that deer ranges are not static. There are areas that currently hold deer where there were no deer at all a few years ago. If all deer were in high fences, there still would not be any deer in those areas.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: deerhunter721]
#1124719
12/23/09 08:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,410
Tye
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,410 |
Yes, its an unfortunate truth that so many of the people who complain the loudest about the high fences have only themselves to blame for the fence's existence in the first place. That is crap....It is so they can grow big deer, and sell them. Oh really. We fenced ours because of our neighbors and that was about 13 years ago. We spent ALOT of money on 670 acres and got tired of not seeing any deer over 2.5 years of age. With age comes larger antlers for sure. We didn't start offering hunts until 3 years ago. We spent another 60K on a nice bunk house for the hunters. Once you figure out the cost of 8-9 $1000 deer blinds, fence cost,feed cost,taxes,feeders,4 wheelers,Rangers, Walk-in-cooler etc. how much money do you think a ranch makes????? The hunts we sell don't even pay the feed bill! It is not a money maker for sure. You do it because you love wildlife and you want to see it reach its potential.
If you shoot a young deer because a neighbor will shoot it, you are that neighbor.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: deerhunter721]
#1124725
12/23/09 08:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,851
Texan Til I Die
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,851 |
Yes, its an unfortunate truth that so many of the people who complain the loudest about the high fences have only themselves to blame for the fence's existence in the first place. That is crap....It is so they can grow big deer, and sell them. au contraire - I can show you one high fenced place that is NEVER hunted. The landowner literally got sick of her neighbors actions and put up the fence to stop them. I also know of a ranch that only gets hunted by family, they're not making a penny off of hunting, that was high fenced over 10 years ago because of the unregulated killing that was going on next door. Those are just two examples I'm personally aware of. I'm sure there are many more.
Silver spurs and gold tequila
keep me hanging on.
Pretty girls and old cantinas
give me shelter from the storm.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: Toepuncher]
#1124729
12/23/09 08:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591 |
Too bad that a lot of high fence ranches are bigger than a whitetails normal range...
Guess that shoots down the "trapped" idea.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Not hard do a little deer research..... My disagreement is not with the normal range of a deer (yes, I could do that research but it is not relevant to my point). The fact remains that the deer are trapped. They don't have the option of ranging anywhere else. Without doing any research I can say that deer ranges are not static. There are areas that currently hold deer where there were no deer at all a few years ago. If all deer were in high fences, there still would not be any deer in those areas. First of all I have never seen a 10ft HF so they are detered not trapped, seen to many go over 8ft fences to call them trapped. Options? the deer do have options..... to go around and not tresspass problem is you veiw HF's to keep deer in when in fact its the opposite. All deer aren't and HF's even if they where not all would stay thier. I would be mader if some one built a 8 lane HWY or lake Thats more of a deterent to deer then an HF
Last edited by BOBO the Clown; 12/23/09 09:03 PM.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: txtrophy85]
#1124733
12/23/09 08:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,282
michael rice
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,282 |
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: michael rice]
#1124738
12/23/09 08:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,248
Longhunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,248 |
Longhunter >>>-------> Make It Count!!!<><
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#1124743
12/23/09 08:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 9,776
mustafa
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 9,776 |
I prefer HF only being is everything is generally taken care of. I have a LF lease but plan on getting off of it this year to only go on trophy deer hunts. 150" deer and less dont really excite me much any more. I might even give up deer hunting and let my wife do all the shooting.
Team Barbacoa Pro Staff.
Dallas Safari Club Life Member
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: Toepuncher]
#1124773
12/23/09 09:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 139
deerhunter721
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 139 |
As I set and think about all of this, regardless of "how much money you spend on management"..Who's deer are they? If I built a $20,000 squirrel feeder to feed squirrels, does that give me ownership of the squirrel? If you do think you own them, answer this...When you built that fence, did you have tags for all of them? I bet not.
Don't get me wrong, I believe EVERYONE should practice sound deer management. If a hunter doesnt want to go along with the management wishes of the landowner, then he should be kicked off the lease and never allowed back.
The skyrocketing prices though, are THE LANDOWNERS FAULT. He is the one charging. He found out that he could make alot of money. This wasnt a problem 20 years ago. If the deer were really causing that much damage, he would pay hunters to come shoot them. And if hunters were causing that much damage, then he would charge them for the damages.
I am not against a man making a profit. I believe in capitalism and free enterprise. But the higher these prices keep getting..and they will continue to go up...the fewer hunters there will be. How are you securing the ability for future generations? Will it only be the rich kids who get to hunt? Hunter numbers get fewer every year in Texas.
I hear all this talk about getting the youth involved in hunting and Who does it benefit the most to get them involved into a hunters lifestyle? Sure a guy will pay for his 9 year old son to hunt, but how many 16-20 year olds have a job to afford such prices? They are the ones who need to be in the woods, and not running around town carousing. And so many guys wonder why hunting is becoming thing of the past. Think what you want, but there is a ceiling to what people will pay..or can pay.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: Texan Til I Die]
#1124777
12/23/09 09:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 793
RockinU
Tracker
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 793 |
Yes, its an unfortunate truth that so many of the people who complain the loudest about the high fences have only themselves to blame for the fence's existence in the first place. That is crap....It is so they can grow big deer, and sell them. au contraire - I can show you one high fenced place that is NEVER hunted. The landowner literally got sick of her neighbors actions and put up the fence to stop them. I also know of a ranch that only gets hunted by family, they're not making a penny off of hunting, that was high fenced over 10 years ago because of the unregulated killing that was going on next door. Those are just two examples I'm personally aware of. I'm sure there are many more. If it's NEVER hunted, that place is going to be in a bind in the future...
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: RockinU]
#1124833
12/23/09 09:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,410
Tye
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,410 |
Deerhunter721,
The deer belong to the State along with all the other animals. The Land owners of HF'ed places have to follow the same rules as you as far as regulations. How many low fenced places can you name that have the deer below the carrying capacity, have a buck to doe ratio of 1:1 and have bucks in the 5.5 to 6.5 year age class?
There aren't many. Do you ever think what happens when you only shoot young bucks and don't shoot does? Do you know what that does to the dynamics of a deer herd? That is why we HIGH FENCE a piece of property. To use it as a tool to improve the herd and not own the herd. Did you ever think that the high fence keeps the deer located outside of the fence on that property which should help you see more deer? Now it would be up to the neighbor to manage the deer on their property to the way they see fit.
Texas is a State that is privately owned. The owner doesn't have to allow people on it. Yes there is this thing called Supply and Demand. And that is what is nice about Texas. You can Supply access to property and Demand a fee be paid. Same with a hunting outfitter. If people won't pay it, he can either go down on his price or not worry about it. Do you own a hunting property? If so, would you let anyone come and hunt it for free? Or would you keep it to yourself and your close friends?
The skyrocketing of prices is not the land owners fault. It would be the persons fault for paying that high price. Look what happened to the Ostrich(sp) market. The bottom fell out of it. And what was it costing for a breeding pair??? Something like $10,000. The same is about to happen in the Deer Breeding business. There are too many people doing it now a days and it will soon fall apart also.
If you shoot a young deer because a neighbor will shoot it, you are that neighbor.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: Tye]
#1124843
12/23/09 09:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,868
krs_2007
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,868 |
I guess everyone is truly missing the main point about hunting. To me its about hunting the way you choose, thats right, its our individual rights to hunt how ever we choose as long as its legal.
You can hunt on the ground, in a blind, low fence or high fence as its your choice.
"Hard work is the price we must pay for success, I think you can accomplish anything if your willing to pay the price." ~ Vince Lombardi
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: krs_2007]
#1124852
12/23/09 09:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170
Jimbo
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170 |
I don't hunt fences as they are everywhere. Never could find one that cooked up tender or tasted worth a darn either!
Thursday at 12:45 PM
#33
Once i learned that i didn't "NEED" to kill something, and that if i did kill something all the fun stopped and work began, i was a much better hunter.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: RockinU]
#1124882
12/23/09 09:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,851
Texan Til I Die
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,851 |
Yes, its an unfortunate truth that so many of the people who complain the loudest about the high fences have only themselves to blame for the fence's existence in the first place. That is crap....It is so they can grow big deer, and sell them. au contraire - I can show you one high fenced place that is NEVER hunted. The landowner literally got sick of her neighbors actions and put up the fence to stop them. I also know of a ranch that only gets hunted by family, they're not making a penny off of hunting, that was high fenced over 10 years ago because of the unregulated killing that was going on next door. Those are just two examples I'm personally aware of. I'm sure there are many more. If it's NEVER hunted, that place is going to be in a bind in the future... It already has way too many deer, but she feeds the heck out of them. She also plants every available acre in food plots. You're right, sooner or later something will have to give. It'll be interesting to see how this gets handled.
Silver spurs and gold tequila
keep me hanging on.
Pretty girls and old cantinas
give me shelter from the storm.
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: deerhunter721]
#1124902
12/23/09 10:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,591 |
As I set and think about all of this, regardless of "how much money you spend on management"..Who's deer are they? If I built a $20,000 squirrel feeder to feed squirrels, does that give me ownership of the squirrel? If you do think you own them, answer this...When you built that fence, did you have tags for all of them? I bet not.
Don't get me wrong, I believe EVERYONE should practice sound deer management. If a hunter doesnt want to go along with the management wishes of the landowner, then he should be kicked off the lease and never allowed back.
The skyrocketing prices though, are THE LANDOWNERS FAULT. He is the one charging. He found out that he could make alot of money. This wasnt a problem 20 years ago. If the deer were really causing that much damage, he would pay hunters to come shoot them. And if hunters were causing that much damage, then he would charge them for the damages.
I am not against a man making a profit. I believe in capitalism and free enterprise. But the higher these prices keep getting..and they will continue to go up...the fewer hunters there will be. How are you securing the ability for future generations? Will it only be the rich kids who get to hunt? Hunter numbers get fewer every year in Texas.
I hear all this talk about getting the youth involved in hunting and Who does it benefit the most to get them involved into a hunters lifestyle? Sure a guy will pay for his 9 year old son to hunt, but how many 16-20 year olds have a job to afford such prices? They are the ones who need to be in the woods, and not running around town carousing. And so many guys wonder why hunting is becoming thing of the past. Think what you want, but there is a ceiling to what people will pay..or can pay. Land owners charge what HUNTERS WILL PAY THEM. And i perfer not to go back to the old days that you speak of when farmers and ranchers shot all deer on sight. And as what i'm doing to protect hunting for my future generations... I do more with less and do with out a lot so that I can continue to buy more land.I have zero sympathey for the cost of hunting. Nor do i have sympathey for those that feel like they have been priced out of hunting. Sorry if I sound like a jackarse, but I control what I make and what I do for a leaving. I control what excesses i spend my money on or don't. I'll eat lunch at my desk every day instead of going out with co worked for lunch or I set my arse at home instead of going out to dinner... I choose what i drive or don't drive wiether it be a 1980 VW bug or a 2010 King Ranch, I control wether I buy a 1000 sq house or 4000 sq foot house ... you get my drift Land owners fault this always cracks me up.... Yelp The MAN vs the worker. If you don't like what he charges go buy your own... Promise you for what you get when leasing is a lot more then you will get buying. prove me wrong then come talk about how Land owners are Making butt loads of cash from hunters...LMAO
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Re: Do you hunt low fence or high fence?
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#1125371
12/24/09 01:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,768
killemall
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,768 |
Could someone tell me what kind of satisfaction you get from shooting a deer, even a big deer in a small high fenced environment. I pay alot for the 2 leases I am on. Plus feed, equipment, etc. I could easily go on a high dollar hunt and shoot a big deer. To me thats not what it is about. It's about the experience, growing the deer, reaping rewards for the work you put in and the failures to. Showing up, shooting a big deer and paying just does not seem like the same thing. I don't question that it is legal or not I just question what someone gains from the experience. I think that to some it's more about the kill, they feel like they are buying credibility as a hunter with this big deer on the wall. No offense ment to anyone but it is just not my cup of tea.
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