Do you hunt low fence or high fence?

Just wondering how many people hunt in either high or low fenced lands. I am fortunate to hunt a ranch that a relative owns, which is low fenced, but have not killed a deer on yet. Game cams show whats passing through. But i guess thats whats exciting about it, you never know what you'll see....if anything in my case.

Low fence in Erath.

I hunt a low fence in Mills county that is bordered on one side by a high fence....THAT SUX.....watching 180-200 class deer all morning long knowing they cant cross the fence.....

+2... low fence in Fayette.... .out scouting the trails along the high-fence line and his deer come to the fence and follow~.....

9500 acres in Sonora all low fence.

low fence in south Mason county. We have some high fence places nearby with freakin beasts inside.

Both.

Low fence

I hunt low fence. I've gone shooting on high-fenced places, but wouldn't really call it hunting, but rather trying to fill tags. I know not all high-fenced places are the same, but my experience hasn't been all that positive. I'd never pay to do it. Of course, every property is different.

That said, I've got a friend with over 90,000 acres that are high fenced. I'd imagine you'd have to hunt them pretty hard on that much property.

600 low/no fenced acres in the Hill Country.

low...

Low fence in Fayette, Brown and Mills Counties.

Both

both....our ranch is high fenced but several of my buddies own both low fence and high fence....contrary to what most people believe, the hunting is just as good on some of the low fence places as it is the high fence places.

type of fence dosen't matter, its whether or not your in good country or not

Low

low fence, but about to high fence a few stretches to fix the wagon of Mr 4 hunters on less than 20 acres...

low fence in Llano

low fence

My three leases (220 acres, 250 acres, 7000 acres) are all low fenced, but I wouldn't hesitate to hunt a high fenced ranch as long as there was sufficient acreage and cover.

Low... not a fan of the high in general.

Low only

No fence, but if I had more money, and more land I would high fence at least 2 sides.

really, i don't think many people are, in a perfect world...but like mentioned before, if you have a larger tract, putting money in to managing and feeding your wildlife....and you have a neighbor that has 4 hunters on less than 20 acres blasting anything that moves......im putting up some of that net that stretches 8 foot tall.

I tend to agree. I think a significant percentage of high fences go up not because a landowner really wants a high fence, but because of the actions of his neighbors.

thats why our went up...we were one of the last in our area to high fence...but we were spending a ton of money on protien not to mention time and patience....we had a 400 acre tract to our west that had a 20 foot tower blind 20 yards off our fence....3 times deer "jumped the fence after the shot" and got onto our property.

Guess what we did to remedy that?

Low fence.... But not opposed to high fence if it's a large enough tract of land.
I wouldn't want a "canned hunt", but say on 10,000 acres deer have plenty of room to hide and change habits.

low fence.. couple hunderd in Erath county..

BUSCHWACKER, If you dont mind, can you tell me what town you hunt. You can pm if you want, but this sounds like your right next to me. We hunt in Caradan and have a high fence on one side.

Just curious

Our leases are all low fence , but I am not against hunting exotics in a high fence situation depending on land and cover .

LOW

Both. Our place has been HF'ed for 13 years. We fenced it off because of our neighbors...now they have a Wildlife Coop. Go figure. Our place is on the smaller side at 670 acres but it is covered by 90% oak trees and brush. It is hunting on our place. I had a Dad and son pay for a doe hunt 3 weeks ago. This was going to be their first hunt. It took 3 outings just to find a doe to kill. The buck I killed this year was the best buck we have ever had. He scored 169" gross and the deer are totally native. We had some trail cam pics of him since July. No one ever saw this buck in person until the day I killed him on Nov. 14th. And we had been rifle hunting since October(MLD). If the deer want to hide they can. Another thing you have to remember when hunting on a highly managed ranch is you are usually looking for a select few bucks...not just any buck.

I prefer being HF'ed. There is a greater control of the deer ratio and age structure and thats it. You can pass on middle aged bucks and find them dead of natural causes the next year. The fence doesn't make the deer tame by any stretch of the imagination. You can drive our place all day long and you might see 1 or 2 deer total.

I also hunt on a friends ranch which is partially HF'ed when I'm invited. I love seeing different country and deer.

LOW fence no petting zoo for me.

6,500 acres low fence in Oklahoma.

CB

2000 acres in cooke county LOW FENCE

4500 acres in Lampasas County Low Fence

I am not opposed to hunting high fence as long as it is a big ranch...

Depends on which dirt road I am on.

Low fence for me...

Both

Low fence for me

Low fence only.

Low fence.

Low fence freestone county. Im deer hunting, not zoo hunting !

400 acres low fence here, 350 in Missouri. I have hunted high fence for exotics, unsuccessfully I might add. Have nothing against high fence and will do it again.

Both, lol at folks calling HF hunting "zoo" hunting.

If the deer can't get out, then I don't want to get in. It is fair chase for me. If a man says he can hunt all day, and never see the fence, then what is it there for? I'd rather take a fair chase cull, than a 160 class HF deer. ANY day of the week.

I totally agree. I have had friends track a deer with night cameras and killed it on opening day of rifle season. Buck showed up like clock work and died shortly after the feeder went off...and its LOW FENCED! Deer scored in the low 160's hhhmmmmmmm

Who says they cant get out? I had a friend,who is a member of this forum, call me a week ago. A good friend of his was driving in front of our place and a buck jumped INTO our place and the fence is 8' tall. I have had several TTT tagged does show up at the processing plant in Cisco which were killed by hunters outside of our place. They can jump a fence if they want to.

Can't begin to count the number of deer we've let walk to grow another year that we never saw again....life is hard for deer after 5 1/2 years old, there are no guarantees no matter how high the fence.

We've gone from 1200 acres, to 840 acres, to 300 acres, and I can't say the hunting has gotten any easier. We have a herd of about 50 axis, and If i wanna guarantee I leave me place and go to a 200 acre low fence place in outside bandera. can get a lot more deer there.

we had stands where you would see 30 deer an afternoon, and we had stands where you might only see 3 or 4. we did see quite a number of bucks but that was because the hunting pressure was pretty low, after a few days of shooting they would go into the brush and only feed at night.


Don't know why people call high fence hunting "zoo hunting"

Dont get it either, it's not like these places are 20x20 pens. I think most people that knock it have never done it.

Let me try and comprehend this....
All high fenced places are a zoo...
Yet, on the Bucks of Tecomate, where they shoot MONSTER bucks every year, on both the El Cazador and El Tecomate Ranches (which oh by the way are LOW FENCED), it is not a petting zoo?
I don't see why people think a HF is SOOO bad.
The way I see it is a HF is merely a way of better being able to control your deer herd and make it easier to manage.

+1

EXACTLY!

Tye, what is the point of having it if they can get out or in. 8' is minimum for a high fence. Sure there are cases where deer get out of high fences, but if they are getting in or out, what is the point?

deer have to have a reason to get out...also, holes get dug, many go under rather than over.

we've had tagged does wind up on our place, comming under our fence from the neighbors.

but i'd say it keeps 98% of them in

Because most of the time they won't get out. I've seen plenty deer stand and stare at a high fence but never make the jump. If your life was on the line though, can't you say you'd do something crazy too?

I hunted 200ac h/f once and it was a joke.......could'nt bring myself to drop the hammer....talk about zoo hunting... and I told the owner so.....also I never got invited back.However I also get to hunt 4800ac h/f so.Tex. brush country and it is the most difficult hunting I've ever done in my over 40yrs of hunting...(I don't hunt feeders,my choice). Just sayin'..

Low fence 5,000 acres south of Sonora...

Never hunted HF but I imagine that if the place is big enough it's not that big of a deal. What I wonder about HF is do you have to tag a minimum # of deer? It seems like if you weren't tagging enough deer, the population would explode on you pretty quick...

Some years I'll fill my tags, but some years I'll only take one deer; and a lot of the other hunters on our lease are like that too. So if the land was HF'ed, we'd feel pressured/stressed to go out and fill tags. I haven't shot a deer yet this season and plan on only taking 1 deer, 2 at best. I'd have a lot of tagging to do on a HF I guess

THB: you are exactly on target, in that, once the high fence is up the landowner is obligated (at least morally obligated!) to maintain the population, which means taking enough deer off the place every year to keep the population in check.

That exact number, of course, varies with such things as the size of the place, the amount of groceries available, and the weather during the year.

low fence. I've hunted HF and don't have a problem with most of them. IMO the reason alot of people have negative views of HF is there are some ranches out there that are canned hunts and give bad names to the other HF places where you don't know what you're gonna see if you hunt there. That and alot have never hunted HF.

True that. Just like the guy above that mentioned he hunted on a 200 acre HF....WHAT A JOKE!!!!

Our lease is partially high fenced... several exotics get on to our place through holes and sometimes the fence gets washed out down in the creek.

I saw all I needed to about high fence ranches a few year back when I'd read stories about ranches having grass fires and a lot of wildlife being burned to death because they couldn't escape the fire.

Low fence on both leases, small one is bordered on one side by high fence. Like alot of others on here I don't have issue with high fence if we are talking large tracks. I means like 2000 acres. These high fenced little places, show up and shoot, make me sick. As well as the idea of a place buying deer and releasing them to be shot. If you want to buy a high dollar big deer for genetics feel free. Stick a orange tag in his ear and don't shoot him. Once a deer has been caught, drugged, transported, and released I feel you are dealing with livestock at that moment. I give a broad definition to hunting and think all legal means are ok, but shooting in a 300 acre high fence is just that, shooting.

i agree with you about breeder deer, if someone wants to buy one, thats fine, but it's more or less livestock....but unless you have hunted on a high fence you can't judge it....deer still has to come within range, alot of people don't hunt even 300 acres but will call foul when a tract that size is highfenced....i don't get it. like was mentioned before its not a 20x20 acre pen

Most animals ever killed by our group at one time was 9....took about 30 min....on 200 acres in bandera county....low fence

you shoot twice at our place, deer are running into the brush and mesquite and you ARE NOT going to find them.

Its not a matter of the size of a place when low fenced, deer travel and come and go as they want. I feel at 2000 acres(maybe) less the deer have ample chance to flee, as well as to relocate, mature buck busts you he leaves area. Not the case on 300 acres. He may go nocturnal but he ain't leaving. Gives you to much room for error. Sit on him long enough and you get him. Not the case with low fence, or even large high fence. How would you get a sustainable herd on 300 acres anyway. Do you get lucky when the final section of fence is placed that deer are there, Are you feeding heavy with gate open then closing, are do you import deer? If it is a matter of luck fine, if you are importing deer to shoot, problem. If you are pulling in with feed then closing the gates, problem.

I agree with this 100%. I have guided on a ranch that did release bucks from a breeding pen and were able to harvest 2-3 years later. The guy I guided 2 years ago went home empty handed. He did pass on a 150" buck, but he was wanting a buck that would go in the 160's. Never saw one and this place is around 1200 acres with mostly grass land. Even on this place, you could drive a Ranger around and not see a deer. If they don't want to be seen, they won't. Would I ever kill a buck that had been handled or released out of a pen? Nope, thats n ot my cup of tea. But more power to the people who want to. I'm not one to judge them for what they want to do as long as its legal. Just like I wouldn't judge someone from killing a deer with a rifle that can accurately shoot 500 yards compared to a bow that can only shoot 40 yards.

There will never be a "size" of a ranch that will constitute a pen. 5 acres...yes. 200,400,600, 1000 acres all depends on what type of cover is available. We had a cow get on our place 4-5 years ago. Never saw the cow...only tracks. Ranch is too thick.

To kill any buck on a high fenced place wouldn't be difficult just like on a low fenced place. When you have to look for a MATURE buck is a totally different story. The guys I guided this year saw about 4-5 bucks each outing. Unfortunately most were yearling and 2 year olds.

A friend of mine has 1200 acres near Wichita Falls which is HF'ed on 2 sides. I think there is 1 oak tree on the whole ranch. It's not uncommon to see 20-40 deer on their food plots. They have already killed 3 bucks which ranged from 135-mid 150s. Is it ZOO hunting when they see the same bucks on the same fields time and time again? Is it ZOO hunting when you can predict deer movement on a low fenced place with night cameras and kill the buck the next day? Heckm you can even drive next to the fields and the deer just look at you and the majority of the ranch is LOW Fenced.

How many of you have killed a buck that you knew was going to the feeder at a certain time??????? And its not hard to pattern a deer using cameras prior to the rut. They have to show up to the feeder/food plot just like on a HF place. I know there will be some of you that say....I don't hunt feeders. Well, you will be the minority.

I agree with killemall, As long as it is legal, then hunters can do what they wish. Personally, I just choose to hunt low fence. I have zero desire to hunt high fence. The fence is there for a purpose. All this talk about never knowing it's there, and how hard it still can be to hunt in high fence is irrelavant to the fact that the fence is there for a reason, otherwise you wouldnt need one at all.
I know we hunters are passonate about our sport,and we bicker over methods and means. Even though I despise high fence hunting, and hate everything that comes along with it, I will still stick together with the guys who do. There is a movement out there trying to destroy it all. We need to find common ground and fight these maniacs.
But I will say this, High fence hunting will be the first target. You can call it fair chase all you want too, but at the end of the day, the deer are trapped. And a side note, if your neighbor shoots a 2 year old 8 point, then so be it. It isnt your deer to sell! That is how the cookie crumbles.
I hear some say, that on the giant ranches, some deer never see the fence. If so, why is it there? I have YET to hear a straight forward honest answer to that question.
One of the biggest products of a high fence is turning the deer into property or livestock. I see it all the time. I know that some ranchers spend alot of money managing the deer population and quality. Some of them are growing giants. But then they are selling them at a high price too. It is all a big business. And I hate to see such a majestic animal be fenced in and pumped full of protien to grow a freakishly large rack, then sold to someone who will give $25k to the rancher if he kills it. Ethics?..I think not. It is the prostitution of wild game for profit. The whitetail deer doesnt deserve that. They are far too noble to take any other way than free range fair chase. The way this world is getting, if you hunt HF, you better enjoy it now, because it isnt going to be around forever. Just wait and see.
But as long as your legal, then good luck.

"I hear some say, that on the giant ranches, some deer never see the fence. If so, why is it there? I have YET to hear a straight forward honest answer to that question."

Here is a straightforward answer: Often, the fence is there to keep the neighbors' deer out! Without the high fence there are too many deer, and particularly too many doe.

Another straightforward answer: To keep the neighbors from shooting across the fence: "Oh, I shot him on my side and he jumped the fence". Gee, I have never seen a deer with a broken neck jump a fence and run 75 yards...

Yes, its an unfortunate truth that so many of the people who complain the loudest about the high fences have only themselves to blame for the fence's existence in the first place.

Neighbor's deer?....Your deer?...They are the STATE'S deer. Unless you paid money for them they arent yours. And By the way, I have seen MANY deer jump a fence and run farther than 75 yards with half a heart.
As far as does, the state needs to up the limit on does in most areas.

That is crap....It is so they can grow big deer, and sell them.

I agree with most of the comments you made in this post. My main objection to high fences, regardless of the size of the place, is that the deer are trapped and cannot escape. That is unnatural. And Tye, I disagree with your comment that one can't judge a high fence place without hunting it. I don't need to hunt one to know that the deer are trapped. Obviously, all other things being equal, a larger high fence place gives the deer a better chance to escape a particular hunter than a smaller one. But, they still can't escape the enclosure.

My objections are purely personal. I am not advocating that high fences be banned, I just have absolutely no interest in it pursuing game within a high fence myself.

I'm right there with ya Toepuncher.

Too bad that a lot of high fence ranches are bigger than a whitetails normal range...

Guess that shoots down the "trapped" idea.

Anyway, I hunt both and have some hunts that were more challenging in high fence ranches.

High fences started:

1. Because neighbors made it impossible to manage anything in some areas.

2. To maximize the $$$ per acre a landowner can make.

If the fence was outside their normal range, how is it that the neighbors mismanagement affected it. In order to keep deer off the neighbor's land, you have to TRAP them so they CANT'T..
...to # 2 That is exactly right.

Ok, where I typed "neighbor's deer", please substitute "the state's deer currently standing on the neighbor's property"...

The point remains valid: High fences(not ALL)are put up so that the landowner can reduce the population of the STATE'S deer on his property to within the carrying capacity of the range.

And by the way, notice I stated broken neck. Yes, I know a deer can run a long ways and jump several fences without a heart/lung. But they cannot move or jump a fence if their CNS system has been severly damaged (i.e., a shot thru the brain, or spine).

And the state can up the limit on does all it wants to (and in many cases it has) but that doesn't mean folk will fill their tags.

Deer all around the perimeter will be in and out. Fact is that most unmanaged places are shooting young bucks before they reach their potential and letting culls live and breed with too many doe. Makes it heck to manage a low fence property next door....

i love low fence and my neighbors should all be low fence too! the deer can enter on my 16 acre piece of land and leave as they please (I'm surrounded by large parcels of land. plus it takes a whole lot less effort to climb a neighbors fence when I shoot somethin on their side (they usually are gone when I hunt). Do any of yall know how hard it is to cross a high fence at night while carrying a loaded weapon? It ain't fun Ill tell you that lol.

You know, some of you guys in this forum who try to put a smokescreen in front of the fact that these ranchers are selling deer, need to go to the Dallas Safari Club Convention in January @ the Dallas convention center. Talk to some of these ranches. Look at the prices. LOOK HOW THEY CHARGE and what they charge FOR. I bet you can't find ONE that just charges a fee to hunt. But you will find that ALL of them charge by the quality of deer.
If Texas wants to overlook this selling of OUR deer by ranchers, then fine, but you wont see me hunting any of their leases, and with the high prices and big business that it is becoming,it is going to destroy hunting for future generations.
Deer hunting used to be about the exitement of opening day, the comraderie in the field, camp stories, and the wildness of it all. Now it has turned into trophy fees, high fences, deer herd vaccination, ear tags, breeder bucks, management bucks, and a big lodge for the "clients" to stay in. In Texas it has changed dramatically! The hunting that I love resembles something else, but not this.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Easy anwser- Yes most ranches are larger then a deer normal range.

HF are put in place to "limit"(they do not stop) to and from dispersal. Mainly your stopping the perimeter deer not the core deer.

Most HF places are very in tune with the herd density, thus giving thier deer ability for optimumal nutrition. As range conditions change deer will seek other places for food.

HF land owners have basically an all you can eat buffet, caluclated by percentage of deer they have... When high population of deer on the outside eat down thier natural browse, why should the HF land owner open the gate for then to come in when he has worked his arse off to maintain a proper herd numbers based on what the natural habitat can support.

Basically The HF is in play becuase of lack of herd management around it... yes it has a little to do with age structure and to protect young bucks...but the biggest problem most of the state of TX has (EXCLUDING FANNIN- your welcom Sig and Curly) is to high of a deer population of deer(manyly does)for the habitat.

HF has nothing to do with profit... Unless you have a breeder operation and your turning out deer(which i disagree with, but to each thier own). Most HF operations "may" break even on hunt income vs feed and habitat improvements, most don't.

I lost over 200 acres of Alfala because of YOUR deer and antelope. PM your address so that I can send you a bill for YOUR deer. I'm serious to

Hunting prices have nothing to do with what or who is growing what. It has everything to do with the loss of huntable land and other hunters willing to pay more for better quality management and less people.

No body wants to be on a 200 acres lease with 10 people... No one wants to be on a 1000 acre place with 20 people. How many lease have a spot open up and the other hunters pick up the tab so they don't have to add some one... A LOT!!! Wonder why. So stop blaming hunting prices on Land owners or HF's or who ever... I promise you less then 1 percent of hunters can afford those $$$ deer... so look at the other 99 percent which is you and me... Instead of blaming $$$ hungrey landowners and HF's maybe we all should look in the mirror.

deerhunter721:

no one is denying that all the things you dislike are happening. But just becasue a place has a high fence around it doesn't mean it is one of "those places". A high fence is a tool, like a gun or a hammer. It can be used for several purposes. Just because a ranch is high fenced, doesn't mean that it has bred deer, imported genetics, deer priced by the inch, etc.

Brushing all high fenced places with the same brush us tantaount to assuming that everyone who owns a gun is a ________ (fill in the blank: murderer, terrorist, hunter, whatever.)

Not hard do a little deer research.....

I HATE CATTLE FENCES Becuase BLACKBUCKS AND ANTELOPE wont jump them

I'd say it would be VERY hard to make a profit off of high fencing a place unless you were a breeder operation. High fence is EXPENSIVE. Once you have it high fenced, you have to maintain reasonably accurage population counts, provide adequate food and water, etc. The landowner typically isn't going to high fence a place and then lease it out. The return likely wouldn't be enough to bother. Maybe you can sell hunts, but that's hard to do profitibly either (unless it is one of the HUGE operations).

We're considering putting a long section of high fence just out of spite for one neighbor in particular. We spend a ton of time and money on our little management plan and have the neighbor that has 4 hunters on less than 20 acres, with all of his feeders on our fence and the stands facing the fence. We're not fencing our deer in, just "adjusting" their travel habits away from his place.

My disagreement is not with the normal range of a deer (yes, I could do that research but it is not relevant to my point). The fact remains that the deer are trapped. They don't have the option of ranging anywhere else. Without doing any research I can say that deer ranges are not static. There are areas that currently hold deer where there were no deer at all a few years ago. If all deer were in high fences, there still would not be any deer in those areas.

Oh really. We fenced ours because of our neighbors and that was about 13 years ago. We spent ALOT of money on 670 acres and got tired of not seeing any deer over 2.5 years of age. With age comes larger antlers for sure. We didn't start offering hunts until 3 years ago. We spent another 60K on a nice bunk house for the hunters. Once you figure out the cost of 8-9 $1000 deer blinds, fence cost,feed cost,taxes,feeders,4 wheelers,Rangers, Walk-in-cooler etc. how much money do you think a ranch makes?????

The hunts we sell don't even pay the feed bill! It is not a money maker for sure. You do it because you love wildlife and you want to see it reach its potential.

au contraire - I can show you one high fenced place that is NEVER hunted. The landowner literally got sick of her neighbors actions and put up the fence to stop them.

I also know of a ranch that only gets hunted by family, they're not making a penny off of hunting, that was high fenced over 10 years ago because of the unregulated killing that was going on next door.

Those are just two examples I'm personally aware of. I'm sure there are many more.

First of all I have never seen a 10ft HF so they are detered not trapped, seen to many go over 8ft fences to call them trapped.

Options? the deer do have options..... to go around and not tresspass

problem is you veiw HF's to keep deer in when in fact its the opposite. All deer aren't and HF's even if they where not all would stay thier. I would be mader if some one built a 8 lane HWY or lake Thats more of a deterent to deer then an HF

Low

Both Low and High...

I prefer HF only being is everything is generally taken care of. I have a LF lease but plan on getting off of it this year to only go on trophy deer hunts. 150" deer and less dont really excite me much any more. I might even give up deer hunting and let my wife do all the shooting.

As I set and think about all of this, regardless of "how much money you spend on management"..Who's deer are they? If I built a $20,000 squirrel feeder to feed squirrels, does that give me ownership of the squirrel? If you do think you own them, answer this...When you built that fence, did you have tags for all of them? I bet not.
Don't get me wrong, I believe EVERYONE should practice sound deer management. If a hunter doesnt want to go along with the management wishes of the landowner, then he should be kicked off the lease and never allowed back.
The skyrocketing prices though, are THE LANDOWNERS FAULT. He is the one charging. He found out that he could make alot of money. This wasnt a problem 20 years ago. If the deer were really causing that much damage, he would pay hunters to come shoot them. And if hunters were causing that much damage, then he would charge them for the damages.
I am not against a man making a profit. I believe in capitalism and free enterprise. But the higher these prices keep getting..and they will continue to go up...the fewer hunters there will be. How are you securing the ability for future generations? Will it only be the rich kids who get to hunt? Hunter numbers get fewer every year in Texas.
I hear all this talk about getting the youth involved in hunting and Who does it benefit the most to get them involved into a hunters lifestyle? Sure a guy will pay for his 9 year old son to hunt, but how many 16-20 year olds have a job to afford such prices? They are the ones who need to be in the woods, and not running around town carousing. And so many guys wonder why hunting is becoming thing of the past. Think what you want, but there is a ceiling to what people will pay..or can pay.

If it's NEVER hunted, that place is going to be in a bind in the future...

Deerhunter721,

The deer belong to the State along with all the other animals. The Land owners of HF'ed places have to follow the same rules as you as far as regulations. How many low fenced places can you name that have the deer below the carrying capacity, have a buck to doe ratio of 1:1 and have bucks in the 5.5 to 6.5 year age class?

There aren't many. Do you ever think what happens when you only shoot young bucks and don't shoot does? Do you know what that does to the dynamics of a deer herd? That is why we HIGH FENCE a piece of property. To use it as a tool to improve the herd and not own the herd. Did you ever think that the high fence keeps the deer located outside of the fence on that property which should help you see more deer? Now it would be up to the neighbor to manage the deer on their property to the way they see fit.

Texas is a State that is privately owned. The owner doesn't have to allow people on it. Yes there is this thing called Supply and Demand. And that is what is nice about Texas. You can Supply access to property and Demand a fee be paid. Same with a hunting outfitter. If people won't pay it, he can either go down on his price or not worry about it. Do you own a hunting property? If so, would you let anyone come and hunt it for free? Or would you keep it to yourself and your close friends?

The skyrocketing of prices is not the land owners fault. It would be the persons fault for paying that high price. Look what happened to the Ostrich(sp) market. The bottom fell out of it. And what was it costing for a breeding pair??? Something like $10,000. The same is about to happen in the Deer Breeding business. There are too many people doing it now a days and it will soon fall apart also.

I guess everyone is truly missing the main point about hunting. To me its about hunting the way you choose, thats right, its our individual rights to hunt how ever we choose as long as its legal.

You can hunt on the ground, in a blind, low fence or high fence as its your choice.

I don't hunt fences as they are everywhere. Never could find one that cooked up tender or tasted worth a darn either!

It already has way too many deer, but she feeds the heck out of them. She also plants every available acre in food plots. You're right, sooner or later something will have to give. It'll be interesting to see how this gets handled.

Land owners charge what HUNTERS WILL PAY THEM. And i perfer not to go back to the old days that you speak of when farmers and ranchers shot all deer on sight.

And as what i'm doing to protect hunting for my future generations... I do more with less and do with out a lot so that I can continue to buy more land.

I have zero sympathey for the cost of hunting. Nor do i have sympathey for those that feel like they have been priced out of hunting.

Sorry if I sound like a jackarse, but I control what I make and what I do for a leaving. I control what excesses i spend my money on or don't. I'll eat lunch at my desk every day instead of going out with co worked for lunch or I set my arse at home instead of going out to dinner... I choose what i drive or don't drive wiether it be a 1980 VW bug or a 2010 King Ranch, I control wether I buy a 1000 sq house or 4000 sq foot house ... you get my drift

Land owners fault this always cracks me up.... Yelp The MAN vs the worker.

If you don't like what he charges go buy your own... Promise you for what you get when leasing is a lot more then you will get buying. prove me wrong then come talk about how Land owners are Making butt loads of cash from hunters...LMAO

Could someone tell me what kind of satisfaction you get from shooting a deer, even a big deer in a small high fenced environment. I pay alot for the 2 leases I am on. Plus feed, equipment, etc. I could easily go on a high dollar hunt and shoot a big deer. To me thats not what it is about. It's about the experience, growing the deer, reaping rewards for the work you put in and the failures to. Showing up, shooting a big deer and paying just does not seem like the same thing. I don't question that it is legal or not I just question what someone gains from the experience. I think that to some it's more about the kill, they feel like they are buying credibility as a hunter with this big deer on the wall. No offense ment to anyone but it is just not my cup of tea.

Low fence

I hunt both every year and absolutely love both ends of it. Just read my sig and it says it all!!!

Low Fence Family property in Llano Co. We are high fenced on two sides. It has defenantly hurt our hunting.

I've hunted property that was partially high fenced, and it does effect the way you hunt and what you see. It's true that a deer can and will jump a high fence, but they won't if they don't have to. I've seen them jump them with ease, but again it's either out of necessity like being chased by hunters riding a fence on a vehicle, or dogs, or either trying to get across because of a hot doe on the other side that a buck just can't resist, but just normally they prefer to take the path of least resistance rather than jump and make a nasty landing.

A high fence can direct deer by a stand if you put a blind in the right place, as it acts as a funnel in some cases, but if you have a high fence that takes in more than two sides, your chances of having deer on modest to small sized place deminish unless you have a big enough place, or your property is shaped in a way that it won't effect their natural travel routes to feeding, and bedding areas, where they have enough freedom to roam.

Low fence is naturally hunter friendly, and deer most of the time will elect to go under or through a few strands of wire rather than jump, and they can go through that kind of fence without missing a step or slowing down and that's without even jumping it.

Looking for a place to hunt that isn't around a ranch with a high fence is getting harder and harder to find, but it's not always a bad thing, and storms happen where trees fall on those fences, and floods happen and wash out sections of fence, and holes get put into those high fences from time to time by hogs and other game, so any big bucks with superior genes can and do end up in the adjoining property.

I've personally seen it happen, and there are a lot of free roaming exotics in the hill country that got out of high fenced places that prove that point.

Yes, high fences can even help the small places, so I say more power to them, and keep the country side well stocked!

I am available!!

I hunt low fence but what do you think happens to livestock in a bad wildfire.Lets keep this country free like it was intended. Theres anuff in washinton that dont think you have the right to hunt lowfence either. Just remember that.

Well said Dave...

As a non-Texan, I made my first hunt in Texas last year. I went with a co-worker to a ranch near Junction that he had hunted in the past. It happened to be HF, and I must admit I was very leary about hunting there. I hunt about 2600 acres in MS, and people barely even bother to put up fences there (actually they are there, just rarely maintained), so my first thoughts were of canned hunts everyone always hears of.

Turns out, we had 3 of us hunting a 6500 acre ranch. I quickly came to appreciate the fact that the owner wasn't going to make any money off of three guys hunting nearly 10 square miles of land after I saw an 18 Wheeler delivering feed pull out as we pulled up.

Now, was there an abundance of game....yes; but my hunting experience was what I made it to be. I had to put 4 long days in to ultimately be successful.

I wanted to see a mature animal, and I was prepared to leave empty handed if I did not encounter the type of animal I expected to see in Texas.

I left with the feeling that the owner of such a ranch has to really enjoy spending money to feed year round in order to produce outstanding animals knowing that whom ever he allows to hunt, no matter how much they are willing to pay, will not allow him to generate a profit from hunting alone. In my opinion, he is just as much a conservationist as a guy trudging through wetlands in North Dakota tagging ducks for Delta Waterfowl.

I'm just pointing out, that this owner was more than responsible and the only animals that were going to leave his ranch were ones that had reached their full potential. That fact was not debatable.

Futher more, it wasn't a shooting gallery. We had 3 days of 25+ mph winds, and the deer just were not moving; just like they wouldn't have moved in Mississippi if I were hunting there.

Low or High, you guys are blessed to live and hunt in Texas; it's a wonderful place to enjoy the outdoors.

We own the property so I get the same enjoyment as you do.(working on blinds,planting fields,filling feeders, watching the improvement of the property and the animals on it etc.) I still get buck fever even though its HF'ed. I killed my biggest buck this year and its the biggest we have ever had on the ranch since we have owned it(1989).

I guess people get the same enjoyment of hunting a HF place as I do hiring a guide for an out of state hunt. All I have to do is show up and most of the scouting is already done, I don't have to cook/clean etc. I get to enjoy the hunt without all the other odds and ends. I finally got drawn for a mule deer hunt in Nevada. It took 10 years to get that tag. $6000 later and 6 days of hunting, I came home empty handed. Thats the way the ball roles. The weather was terrible and the deer weren't moving. The same happens on a high fenced place also. The deer might be there but that doesn't mean they are going to move. By the way, just because a high fence is present doesn't mean there are MONSTER bucks behind every tree and all you have to do is show up,pick one out and shoot it.

I hunt no fence.

High Fences places are a joke and a black eye on hunting. No real hunter will hunt a high fence place.

Now there is an open mind....

seriously...the biggest problem hunting faces is the fact that hunters are too busy fussing and fighting amongst themselves to present a united front to the real enemy. In other words, you sir are part of the problem.

Anyone that thinks hunting animals enclosed in a pen is disturbed, and needs to re-evaluate their compass.

i would hardly call any thing over 640 acres a pen... unless its flat farm land with no trees.

But what ever... I guess you think everything is a pen whether its 640 or 21k...

Guess that depends on your definition of a pen...my definition of a pen is an enclosure from which an animal can not get out of sight. Lots of HF places are plenty big for that. I've never even been on a HF place, nor am I likely to, but I think it's ridiculous to paint every HF place as a purveyor of canned hunts. If you want to preserve our hunting heritage for future generations you may want to re-evaluate your compass, and stand together with all hunters.

This forum is always dissagreeing on what is and is not right. No matter what kind of hunting you do there will always be someone that comes behind you and says they work harder at it than you do so you're not really a hunter OR you didn't deserve whatever you harvested.

I hunt 7700 low fenced acres and wasn't able to hunt nearly as much as I'd have liked to this year so I wasn't able to put forth the effort that I intended to. I didn't see anything that I felt didn't need to live a couple more years before I would shoot it in my 1 buck county. Shot a doe and it sure tastes good ( thanks Joshua Deer Processing ).

I think/hope all here would agree that a pen raised ( pet deer ) buck or 20 acre hunt is not sporting but where is the cut-off as far as acres of high fence? That's up to the individual and nobody deserves to be berated unless they're trying to pass off their harvest from a canned hunt ( small acreage )as a trophy.

To some, the work involved obtaining a deer is more important than the actual harvest. To others, only the end result is important. If a guy/gal wants to impress his friends with a huge buck mounted on his wall he may be satisfied in taking that buck the easiest way possible. For me, that buck would be much, much better if I had a great hunting story to go with it.

To each their own. Whatever your decision, be sure it's right for you and don't worry about the other guys.

I would hunt a HF but would prefer it to be a "lease" even though I know that would be very expensive. At 51 years old I still get excited about " being there " and seeing game. If that excitement ever leaves, I'll quit hunting.

well said

Oh, please, mighty one, could you share with us what a "real hunter" is?

if you have to ask, then you really shouldn't be hunting.

Oh, I am so glad we have been blessed with your presence and knowledge...it is good that you are here to guide us with your omnipotence. We have been lacking a voice to decide who is worthy and who is not...we are saved!!

Well, I hunt the way my daddy tought me back in the '50's. And I'm sure my daddy could whip your daddy.

Now, do you have anything to contribute to the conversation? Or do you just enjoy taking pointless pot shots?

i guess you could say the same thing about fishing in a stock tank....that any 10 lb bass is somehow less than one caught at a reservoir?

I don't fish in ponds; the fish are trapped there and can't fairly escape my hook.

Wheres that mentality stop. I say it stops with the comfort level of each hunter or fishermen. I love catching big bass in tanks. But it donsnt mean much to me. These so called hunters that try to degrade the decision of hunters and land owners who choose HF places. Do they really think that hunting deer on low fence place the deer needs that low fence to avoid them. Sorry but the deer doent need all that rm to evade you in most cases. Same goes in the larger HF places. The deer you pursue on low fence ranch doesnt give up its home range because your there,he just does his best to avoid you. Sometimes he wins sometimes he dont. Those that downgrade HF hunting on here need a ego ck.

You get some florida strain bass, a large aquarium, feed heavy until one finally makes it to record, then move it to your pond, catch it, submit it. End up record holder but is it the same thing? High fence guys always put the argument forth that they are improving the herd, whose herd, I am a landowner, I can restrict access to my property, ie who hunts it or accesses it.I have never come to terms with restricting movement of game which belongs to the state. I am going to guess the whole deal got started with exotics, which I consider a different deal. (I would not shoot one out of a pen either) How do the deer end up on a high fenced property, especially a small one. Is it luck when you close the fence, are they drawn in with feed then gates are closed, Are they bought and stocked like cattle. If it is luck fine. If it is like a cattle deal the they are livestock, If you are drawing deer onto a property then restricting their ability to leave I take issue with that. Somebody tell me how you get a sustainable herd on a small high fenced property. They don't fly.

Nice try but that is a ridiculous analogy. Bass have the choice to hit your lure or not, whereas a HF deer has no escape and it will be shot no matter where it goes. You can keep justifying that your HF lease or day "shoot" is actually hunting, but the rest of us who grew up being taught how to hunt and find wild game know the difference.

"...a HF deer has no escape and it will be shot no matter where it goes."

That qualifies as the most ignorant comment ever posted on this forum.

that is some of the dumbest sh*t i have ever heard.

bass have a choice to hit the lure, but a high fence deer has no escape....i guess they are forced to come into shooting range of the blind whenever it is occupied by a hunter. i guess no deer ever dies of old age on a high fence place, no matter what the size, becuase they have no escape and will be shot no matter where it goes..never mind all the brush, trees and other inaccesable places they hide in.

it is obvious by your statement that you have done little to no deer hunting. if you can't provide an intellegent post stay off the forum and keep our topics uncluttered from ignorant bulls*t

some of you guys posts amaze me....how do you people function in today's society with the lack of common sense your portray by these posts.

We highfenced our ranch (1200) acres, back in 94. we estimated that we had around 50 deer on the place. we kept our harvest low, fed the crap outta them. 10 years later we have 300 deer.

In a nutshell, deer breed and if they don't get shot live and breed some more....this in turn makes for more deer!

This is day one stuff man

Yep.. keep on believing HF is actually hunting, and come home and show off your kill to your wife and kids. Little do they know it came from some 250 to 750 acre HF ranchette that 3/4 of place is covered in food plots, feeders, monitoring systems that track each deer all over the property.

another thing that amazes me is that a number of folks who cry foul over shooting a whitetail under a high fence line up to shoot these ferel sheep bought at auction on some "exotic ranch".

somehow thats okay but the former isn't

yep, i have a gps on every single deer, know there exact coordinates at any given moment.....come on now your being rediculous. btw only an 1/8 of our property is covered in food plots.....

anyway, its no secret that i hunt on several high fence properties....my wife could give a sh*t less.

Its unfortunate that a lot of the people on here complaining about high fences wish they were hunting a high fence ranch!!!

If people would hunt and manage properties that actually hold and "raise" deer and not hunt whatever jumps the fence from the neighbors a lot less high fences would be up. Sad to say but true.

Could't have said it better

You got that right...do we have an anti here on the board ???

I dont hunt HF I am not saying I wouldnt. But its legal and a person that owns land can do it within the law. When I was younger I guided on 55oo acre HF place. Its not the given you think it is. If you are so hec bent on controling the freedoms of others because your ego tells you that your a better hunter mr lowfence.Your just another commie democrat. MOve up north please.Or at least visit a northwest state site , like the chick from washington that was on this site a few weeks ago. She doesnt like the way texan low fence hunters have feeders and down grades that. You got the Lib mind set for sure.

They may have had a little too much free goverment alcohol celebrating pelosi and reids health care bill that was passed !!!

some of you guys posts amaze me....how do you people function in today's society with the lack of common sense your portray by these posts.

We highfenced our ranch (1200) acres, back in 94. we estimated that we had around 50 deer on the place. we kept our harvest low, fed the crap outta them. 10 years later we have 300 deer.

In a nutshell, deer breed and if they don't get shot live and breed some more....this in turn makes for more deer!





I think I said small property, meaning 300-400 acres, not 1200. I understand the biology. You would be suprised how well I function. You may call it what you want you are resticting movement of the animal. No different than raising cattle. You are limiting the animals access to other properties, it won't be hit by a car, no one else will shoot it. It will not be pushed from it's range by another buck. You are raising these deer the same as a steer. When it gets to a certain size you harvest, barring sickness or injury the outcome is not in doubt. And if you are running 300 deer on 1200 acres then they are livestock exactly.

As ignorant as I think this guy is for spouting all is baseless gibberish about high fences, blaming high fences solely on the hunting of low fence neighbors is silly too. There are lots of us that manage quite intensively, and reap the benefits without having to resort to high fence. No doubt it makes management easier, but it is just a tool and not the solution. You can manage and harvest top of the line deer without HF...

Your right rockin , my son hunts on low fence place . Its been managed for 13 yrs he killed a 204 gross this yr.

That's awesome, congrats to him.

you can manage deer without a high fence, but it does take substantial acreage and good neighbors.

never in any of my posts have I ever said that you can never grow big deer without a high fence....but it takes certain things that are pretty rare

Never mind...I admit that i grow deer, the same native deer that were on the property when we bought it, for the purpose of enjoyment through watching them grown and hopefully harvesting a big one now and then.

raising them imo requires things like medicating them, bottle feeding them, cubeing them to make them gentle, etc.

i do none of that.

anyway, you continue to hunt the way you please, and I'll continue to do things the way i've done it for the last 10 years. You may call it Raising deer, I call it management

Hey, if you guys like shooting captive deer and hanging it on your living room wall that is fine. Just be sure when your telling the story of "Bucky" to your friends and neighbors, be sure and explain to them it came from a completely enclosed property with no means of escape.

Like trying to teach a pig to sing...

your an idiot....go get yourself a mocha latte and a pedicure and stay off the forum

Tell Pelosi and PETA hello for us...

Think about what youve said. With no means of escape. Have you you ever hunted on a HF ranch or even visited one. I have seen helicoper surveys been way off there mark. I have seen animals that nobody thought were still living on the ranch.Granted theres small places under HF I wouldnt hunt if given the oppertunity . But Its someone elses right to do so. As americans and texans lets support that right. Please alot of men have been where the metal meets the meat so we can live where a mans land and hm are his to do within the rights granted to us. Lets all support and respect it.

Do you guys throw insults because you cannot defend your argument. A person is not an "idiot, involved in PETA, or a democrat" because they believe that shooting animals in a captive environment is a little short of sporting. Nobody supports canned hunting and there is a difference between the two but they are in the same ballpark. You are holding an animal in an enclosed area until harvest. In some cases these animals are bought and brought in. If that is your cup of tea enjoy, it is what it is.

LOL... nice response.

Go back to your petting zoo and watch your livestock grown until they get big enough to shoot.

Here's one problem with HF places IMO....there is a local HF ranch that offers whitetail hunts. The acreage is a little over 3,000 acres, much larger than the "pen" type places, right? They boast a 95% success rate and take an averge of 60 bucks per year. I'm not sure whether they breed or buy/sell deer or not, which I also don't like, but 60 bucks taken annually on 3000 acres? It just ain't natural. And that combined with the advertised 95% success rate resembles shooting and not hunting.....but that's me.

I've been to several large and reputable HF ranches, one of which I could have taken something but declined. Quite frankly I was shocked at how easy it was to locate the game just riding through the ranch with a guide.

You guys shouldnt be insulting hunters that are hunting LEGALLY!!! Canned hunts are a different story.

By the way my lease is LOW FENCE

Hunting with corn or any type attractant, from an enclosed blind, or anything other than a spear is NOT HUNTING...

Are you reading what this guy is saying? Do you really think hunting 3,000-10,000 acres HF is in the same ballpark as a canned hunt? Have you ever spent much time on a place that big? I hunt close to 11,000 LF, and we do helicopter surveys every year, and most years we kill deer that the helicopter guys didn't get pics of. We kill deer that we never get trail cam pics of. We also get helicopter and trail cam pics of deer we never see. Hunting pressure and food sources have way more to do with how easy a deer is to kill than a fence.

When does it not become canned, 100 acres, 200, 1500, 15,000. Does the animal have to be born on the property, 1 year, 2nd generation deer. What is the difference really. And deer are my only gripe. If you are shooting an elk in Central Texas you know exactly what you are doing. People seem to want to justify deer.

A canned hunt has nothing to do with acreage. A HF doesn't make it a tame herd.

RockinU lookup canned hunt on wikipedia does not have to be tame. Simpily in an enclosed area to increase the likelyhood of success. Dictionary def is that is is raised on a game ranch until big enough to harvest. Highfence increases likelyhood of harvest, it is an enclosed area, its highfenced to allow these animals to reach a certain size. The more I think about it I think it is canned, some cans are just bigger than others.

A canned hunt is pick him out of a catalog, and go shoot him. A turn-out hunt, things of that magnitude. HF may increase the opportunity of killing a big mature deer because it may increase a deer's likelihood of reaching a mature age. It may increase the number of deer that reach a mature age to be killed. So I guess it does increase the likelihood of success by some definitions, but a wild deer on a HF place can and will still go nocturnal and take other measures to avoid hunters. A tame deer in a can environment will not. Big difference...

Not to the definition I read. What about an elk in central Texas, what about a black buck, or an Axis. Is this ok. Why do deer get separate treatment. You are holding the deer captive. You are trying to justify a position by saying its still not easy. I get that but it is not the same. You now they are there, they are not going anywhere. And just saying its legal, its my right does not make it ethical. Just because the herd is healthy does not make it ethical. Ethics are for each person to set for themselves and this does not meet my standard.

Couldn't have said it any better myself Tye.....I agree 100%

First of all, so what the definition you read...have you seen some of the junk on wikipedia? Elk in central Texas? Never hunted them, I want to hunt Elk where they are from, part of the experience. Other exotics, never been a fan myself, but for those that are...they know if they do it right or not, don't know much about the whole deal, but it's still apples and oranges, I'm talking about white-tails in their natural habitat. I hunt LF, and I know some of the deer that are there. I killed a 163" eight point that I have been passing on for 2 years...knew he was there, knew he wasn't going anywhere. Everyone that uses trail cams have an idea of what is there. Most mature bucks don't go anywhere anyway, they have an established territory, and there they stay. They have chased radio collared bucks long distances from their home range, and they always come back...just where is it that you think these deer want to go? On a big place the only deer that have to adjust their home ranges are the ones on the edges of the perimeter, and you logically probably loose half of them when the fence goes up, so it's a wash. You make it sound like people are hemming the deer up in the corner of the fence and shooting them...it's fine if it's not your deal, it's not mine either, it's also for neither of us to condemn the practice...as long as it's wild deer that is.

Wild being the key word.

I agree with that completely

You dont get it. If a man buys a ranch for 3 millon bucks spends 200000 on fence and another 400000 or what ever I dont care if he pens the deer he bought in a 1 acre plot and throws handgrandes in there a squeegys them into a hog trough. Its not one bit of your damm business. And for the post of driving throw a place that the game was everywhere. Maybe this guy hasnt been to a low fence place in many parts of tx that hasnt been properly managed. Theres ranchs that are like driveing threw africa. And there low fence.

Just admit it now dem or lib. If it looks like a duck Quacks like a duck its a duck.

Lifelong conservative. Since when have being conservative and having an opinion about what is sporting and not been mutualy exclusive.

What a guy spends does not make it right or wrong. If a place is mismanaged or not is not the point either. That is ends justify means. You are shooting captive animals. What is to get?

Not sure why anyone cares if someone else wants to hunt a high fence over low fence?? It IS up to the hunter and I don't care what others want to do. We are all hunters, but some got the cash and need to kill something big every year.

Most of us are hunters to spend quality time outdoors w/ family and friends and away from this city crap. A little wildgame on the table is another reward I really enjoy. If I'd add up all of the money I spend gearing up, ammo, gas, food, lodging, processing and the lease I got some pretty damn expensive 1lb vacuum sealed meat in the freezer. I would consider it GOLD if it weren't edible.

Can't we all just get along?

Take a gander in "The Journal of the Texas Throphy Hunters" magazine. Dr. Kroll wrote an article in this month about hunting being a sport or a recreation.

HF supporters will never get it, because they never learned how to actually go out and work for the game they wanted to kill. Stalking, Tracking, Studying Land Topography, Walking property for miles and miles during the off season, etc. The only thing they know is pouring more money into their hunting, then BAM the next thing they are on a HF hunting club where livestock is being raised to justify getting the big rack they want.

Yes you got the lib part part, it is actually Libertarian

Learning the land and and your quary are great things. I just think that your missing my point to respect the rights of others. I myself have spent a lifetime afield, doing many of the things youve mentioned. But not everyone has the time to do that. I have been fortunate to have 20 acre tanks to fish in but rarely do I love the challenge of finding fish in bigger impoundments. I myself cant go on hard physicaly demanding hunts any longer. But still find away to hunt deer. My point is theres hunters in other states that think the way you do about HF if you hunt feeders. I have known men that wont hunt in the snow and dont think much of hunters that take a trophy in it.All I ask is that as hunters we respect that right. Some would say its not a right its a privelage same as driveing. I think IMO its a god givin right over the dominon of wildlife. I will end it at that . GOOD HUNTING HF OR LF have a MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Like it takes a rocket scientist to figure out the habits of a whitetail deer, where the travel routes are, where the bedding areas are,where the feeding areas are etc. With the use of a night camera or walking the area, you can figure that out really quick.

Is hunting with an outfitter in New Mexico for an Elk on public land not hunting if you didn't do all the research or scouting? What about a Stone Sheep hunt in British Columbia with horses when you don't know how to saddle a horse or pack a sheep out? What about fishing offshore when you don't own a boat or know how to find the fish? Would anything caught or killed make it less of an experience? I wouldn't think so. You simply enjoy the time you spent doing it. It might cost the same as spending 4 days in Cancun, but you are hunting and not spending time on the beach sipping a margarita.

I support their right to hunt HF. I hunt LF, and it is doubtful many spend much more time scouting the off-season than I do, or walk too many more miles. I cover lots of miles during the season too...I just choose not to be narrow-minded, judgmental, and condescending.

Hunting a high fence is like hunting a zoo. C'mon guys. Lose the feeders and high fences and be a sport, just to see if you can do it. Ol' Bucky sez you can't and ain't got the huevos, stamina, and stalking experience, to do it.

I've done all of that, probably longer than you have. Hunting means as much to me as anyone.

What you don't seem to grasp is that every ranch that has a HF is not a game preserve, or a zoo, or whatever you want to call it. Many HF ranches have a lower deer/acre density than surrounding properties.

For about 20 years,I hunted a family place of about 500 acres in the Hill Country. I shot 4 does every year and never saw a buck over 1.5 years old. The neighbors on all sides shot anything with horns. The place was crawling with malnurished does and young bucks. And the flora suffered because of it.

Many HF's are put up to control this type of problem. A HF is a tool, it is not evil. It does not define canned hunts, nor does lack of a HF guarantee fair chase.

Most of us here can agree that canned hunts stink. What I don't understand is why some of you seem to think that a HF is the ONLY factor which determines whether a hunt is "good enough", or "tough enough" to be a "real hunt". I have been on LF ranches where you could ride around in a pickup and mature 10 point bucks would lay under a mesquite tree 15 feet off the road and watch you drive by. But I guess I could have stuck my rifle out the window and shot one, and I would be a mighty "real hunter" 'cause I got him on a LF ranch.

Been there and done all that, too. What if I just want to go out and sit in my box blind and enjoy the cold clean air, watch the sunrise and the wildlife come to life and maybe shoot a deer if the mood strikes. Does that make me less of a man? Hunting is an avocation. We do it for fun.

I've got grandkids so that proves I at least had huevos at one time. I have stalked the Rocky Mountains. I have carried deer and elk out on my back for miles. I have stalked deer and shot them at pistol range. What does that prove?

Guess you gotta be a rough and tough man like you to be a "real hunter".

Sorry, if you don't mind, I'll enjoy the campfire, the camaraderie, and watching the kids and grandkids learn to enjoy the outdoors.

And if all this happens to be behind a HF, guess I'll just have to learn to endure your scorn.

Brother....

I'm gonna go ahead and call BS on you!

if you are a libertarian, you will be familiar with the term FREE WILL. Get off your soap box; becasue "Libs" generally believe in NON-INTERFERENCE. Let me help you understand.....an individual that is a libertarian answers to HIMSELF! Not YOU!.....but you knew that RIGHT!

You make allot of assumptions....let me make one....I guess you don't eat veal!

JJH - I like the way you think -- and live. You sound like a good guy.

BTW, I don't hunt HF or use feeders, but you won't hear me criticizing those who do.

You mean putting up a high fence in Red River County won't make the deer turn into 160's ????????


You are absolutely right on sir.

We hunt both, low fence in west, High Fence in South, and NO fence in East Texas

Postoak: thank you for the kind words. They are much appreciated. I hope you and your family, and everyone here on the THF are having a blessed Christmas day.