Anyone work in the car sales business, or purchase a new car recently? I've been patiently looking but haven't pulled the trigger yet. Lots of talk over the past few months pointing to a "bubble" in the industry. Also with credit card debt and delinquency up at all-time highs. High auto delinquency as well. I've been to 8-10 dealerships the past several weeks, mainly on Fridays and Saturdays. Most lots are full of vehicles but very few people inside or outside looking to buy. Actually, haven't seen many people at all. Very few salesmen. Are new car sales numbers down? Not much being offered on rebates or interest rates other than Ford and GMAC offering 1.9% for 60-72 months. This is great but very little movement on MSRP price or cash back incentives.

I don’t see how they sell any and I don’t see many paper tags on the street.

The last two vehicles we bought we never stepped on the property from the dealership we purchased them from.

I'm not sure about movement, unless you're looking at specific models. I've seen several advertisements for $9-12k off HD pickups (particularly RAM). Granted, that still leaves the price well above sane levels, but at least there are some deals out there to be had.

I've been looking for a used HD; 6-9 months ago there weren't any on Autotrader that were 'Great deals'. Now I'm seeing a large percentage of green tags, with hefty discounts below blue book. As inventory keeps increasing it will only get better.

Last time I was in the Toyota place, a salesman showed me one of the new Tundras. He was quick to point out that they would come significantly off the MSRP. Didn’t matter to me, I’m out on new trucks.

I'm looking at Mid-sized SUV's. I've seen the HD trucks discounted but not the 1/2-ton trucks or SUVs other than the small SUVs. Kia, Honda and Toyota all have said they are not offering competitive financing rates at this time because they don't have too. The rebates and discounts are minimal. I plan to keep waiting. Hopefully the sales will plumet and get the pricing back in line where it should be.

I don’t see pricing coming down at all given the rising cost of manufacturing and sourcing parts. Just my

I would agree but if they arnt selling they will have to adjust price.

Check out the Subaru Ascent. You can get one fully loaded out the door for under $50K which is $3K+ less than MSRP. They don’t sell nearly as well in Texas as they do in the Northern climates. .

I bought one late last year. Found it at a dealer online along with the pricing. Once I got there and we agreed on a price when they brought the paperwork out for me to sign I saw and extra almost $4K added on to the bottom line. When I asked the salesman he said "those are upgrades like we will replace your fob if you loose it, better floor maps, etc." I told him i did not ask nor want any of that. So he goes and gets his sales manager and this guy comes in and tells me I have to take the add ons. I told him it wasn't going to happen and I would walk out. He relented.

I later found out that this is now a pretty common trick with many dealerships. So just be aware when you do decide what and where to buy. Good luck

I am the opposite, I will only buy brand new most of the time.

If I had a buddy who had a vehicle couple years old and kept in immaculate condition and with service records and had less than 40K miles I may entertian that, otherwise I want it brand new so I know it's history.

I have had very good luck in the past with used vehicles, but they had to be almost new.

I don't know about other makes or models, but here is what Mark Dodge in Lake Charles is offering on Ram HDs as of yesterday. Different business model than dealers here in DFW in that they offer a set price structure with no negotiating. As for price, I don't think we will ever see new vehicle prices come down to sane levels related to year over year inflation. It's the new world. Note build times are very fast now. Not the 7 month wait I had last year. And because of the new rebates, it sounded like they are not having any problems selling them.


IN STOCK 2500/3500s

Total discounts reflect Dealer Discount & 10% Ram Standalone Rebate

Laramie, Longhorn, Limited, Rebel, Powerwagon

MSRP $80K-$89,999 = $17K OFF

MSRP $90K - $94,999 = $18K OFF

MSRP $95K+ = $20K OFF

Affiliate discount for those who qualify good for additional -$500

All sales subject to $425 Doc Fee, $4 Temp Tags, and your state’s taxes/registration



FACTORY ORDERS 2500/3500

Discounts shown separately reflecting dealer discount & Current Rebates

Tradesman & Bighorn = 11% Dealer Discount, $3500 Rebate from RAM

Laramie, Longhorn, Limited, Rebel, Powerwagon = 10.5% Dealer Discount + 10% RAM Rebate

Affiliate discount for those who qualify good for additional 1% off the Mark Dodge price

$1,000 Deposit to place the order, due once you have the VON# and buyers order to sign

All sales subject to $425 Doc Fee, $4 Temp Tags, and your state’s taxes/registration

All orders are price-protected ensuring that even if RAM changes the MSRP or rebate structure, you are locked in at the time of order and your sale price cannot increase – while it CAN improve if the rebates improve.


Services & Process Included for both IN-STOCK and FACTORY ORDER

We’ll coordinate your shipping directly to you, where you’ll pay the carrier upon arrival
Complimentary driven delivery within 250 miles of Mark Dodge
Complimentary airport pickup within 250 miles of Mark Dodge
No required add-ons, markups, surprise fees, nitrogen tires, locking lugnuts, etc
Freedom to finance with whoever is going to get you the best competitive rate
Complete remote/digital process available – no need to travel or even print a piece of paper

I just bought a used 2022 Duramax with 31,000 miles. Eyeballed a few new trucks first and all were grossly overpriced. I don't have time to dance around and do the haggle BS.

I have seen the same thing with the dealer add On's. I was told as long as its removable and reuseable they can take them off the car and the price.

Sometimes you can make a stink and get them to reduce the add-on cost or waive it entirely. We purchased a new car last year, and everything on their lot gets a “protection package” that’s just clear door edge guards, locking lug nuts, and window tint on the front side windows for a $700 markup. I told them the tint was a dealbreaker because I planned on installing a better heat rejection film immediately, and they came down significantly on the markup.

Ford Coporate got on the dealers about unnecessary markups on new vehicles. The dealers got smart and are now registering brand new vehicles and then putting them on the used lot for over MSRP. A truck I was looking at was $5k over MSRP but listed a used with only 15 miles. Used vehicles typically come with a higher interest rate, so that a no go for me

big discounts on the "plain" vehicles nobody wants.

If you want something cool, you will pay the high price.

I'm still seeing dealers selling Super Dutys at MSRP... not sure what they're smoking though. I didn't even buy mine at MSRP in November 2022 at the height of the ridiculousness.

But I usually buy new these days for a few reasons...
1. People don't take care of their vehicles like they used to. In the last 20 years, I have yet to ride in another person's vehicle that was maintained (inside and out) better than mine.
2. I often travel for work and sometimes for long durations, and I need my family back home to be in a vehicle I can trust (meaning I've done the maintenance, etc.).
3. Used vehicle prices usually make it a no-brainer that new is the better deal, especially with the electronics of the last 10 years and the necessary support of new vehicle warranties.

There are always a few exceptions, but very few.

I have been watching F150 prices for a couple years. Summer of 22 was the last time I talked to a dealer. For a F150 XLT crew 4x4 I was quoted around $57,000 with not a lot of them in stock. Right now web price on same spec'd truck at Grapevine Ford is $49,620 without even talking to them w/ 1.9% on a 72 month note.

I think they'll still come down more, looking to buy in June maybe now.


2023 Ford F-150 XLT Truck SuperCrew Cab V-6 cyl
$49,620
Pricing
Info
MSRP1
$60,870
Grapevine Discount
-$11,250
Grapevine Price
$49,620
Financing Offer : $2,750 on select Ford modelsDetails
-$2,750
Affiliate Offer : $1,500 on select Ford modelsDetails
-$1,500
Affiliate Offer : $1,000 on select Ford modelsDetails
-$1,000
College Grad Offer : $750 on select Ford modelsDetails
-$750

Honda is offering decent rates on the 2024 Pilot (3.9/48) which may even get better in 60 days as the 24 inventory piles up.

Most F150 inventory is still 23 year model. Not sure if that is because of production lag or slow sales. Probably a combination.

[quote=
Honda is offering decent rates on the 2024 Pilot (3.9/48) which may even get better in 60 days as the 24 inventory piles up.[/quote]


I bought a trailsport in December. They came down on the msrp a little and dropped the dealer add ons. Sales guy said they haven't had any problems selling cars bc cars get wrecked, worn out, or people just want a new one.

worst dealership in NTX

on another note

My neighbor just bought a rivian suv , and my wife already hit it

Daughter just bought a 2024 Acura MDX at 2.49% at 36 months. She was able to negotiate about $1,800 down off of asking price. Drove it today…all I can say is WOW! Very quiet and super acceleration.

Bought a 2024 GMC 2500 last week.

I'm seeing 1/2 tons sitting on the lots and dealerships offering better incentives and interest rates on those. Inventory is still slim on 3/4- and 1-Ton trucks, most are having to be ordered and the build price is the price you pay. Interest rates are current market.


I can't speak to Cars or SUV's.

Terrible place

I prefer to buy new vehicles, keep them well maintained, and drive them until the wrecking yard doesn’t want them. To me, they are tools and rides. I recently gave my granddaughter a Toyota 4Runner that I bought new. It was 12 years old, had almost 200k miles and runs like a new one. My Tundra has 150,000+ miles on it

I remember the days when cars with 100k miles were worn out.

We sell every 2500/3500 we get within a few days of arrival. If we get more than two in at once, it's a good bet one is already sold. Price range is $85K-105K.

Next best sellers are full size SUVs. Price range is $85K-105K.

After that, it's small SUVs. Half tons are not selling new as fast as a year ago.

I myself have five vehicles, newest being 2014 (177K miles). MY wife has driven the same 2003 Denali since 2008 when I bought it used. I am not a barometer, just a witness.

Needed a new work truck so I can hire someone so I went into Toyota of Dallas a couple of weeks ago late on a Friday to buy a Tacoma. Already knew which one I wanted and already knew what I was willing to pay. Told the salesman that and they said deal. Didn't have enough in any one checking account to pay for the truck out right so I gave them a deposit and told them I planned on financing. Really my intent was to pay it off with the first payment that I made. Took them forever to do the paperwork and by the time I signed it it was 2:00 in the morning. When I went to sign it I told them that their numbers weren't adding up but told them I was going to sign it anyway and I was going to look at it the next morning when I woke up and that if it didn't match up to the deal that we had agreed on I was going to bring the truck back. Got up the next morning, added things up, and discovered that the finance manager or whoever slid several thousand dollars worth of extras in on the deal after the fact. Called the salesman and told him to have the amended paperwork ready for me to sign and that I was going to be into the dealership after I got off work. Hit the dealership at about 5:00 or 6:00 on Saturday and asked for the new paperwork. Of course it wasn't ready. They hemmed and hawed and tried explaining to me how thousands of dollars added to the contract really wasn't there and that I was misunderstanding things and that I should just take the deal. Extended warranty, lifetime oil changes, tracking system, locking lug nuts for $500, Etc. These were all things that I specifically told them I had no interest in. I have an extremely short temper when it comes down to BS and finally had to tell the guy that things were going to get violent if he opened his mouth again. I told him that I had already stopped payment on the check and handed him the keys back and left with the salesman trailing me out the door pleading for me to still buy the vehicle.

Can someone explain to me what world they live in where they think it's okay to try to steal $4000 or $5,000 from someone by playing games with paperwork?

You were in the finance department until 2:00 am to buy a $40k truck?

I’m gonna file this under things that didn’t happen….

Last truck I bought from Grapevine Ford was in 2004 when I think they were still Payton Wright. I talked to them in 2015 when I bought my current truck but sales guy didn't know crap and I found a much better deal out at Karl Klement.

Haven't been on that lot or talked to them since even though they are about 1/4 mile from my office. Good to know they are douche bags so thanks for that info.

Last 5 vehicles I have bought I don't go to the lot til the deal is pretty much finalized via text and email. Don't have the time or patience for bs sales and finance shenanigans.

Why would you sign a contract / document that you thought was wrong in the first place.......Especially if you thought then numbers weren`t adding up.

I was hoping that during the 6 month wait I had someone who ordered one would drop out and I would be able to swoop in and pick it up. Only 1 truck came available and it was black, so I passed on it.


They had an AT4 that came in about a week before I got mine that was on the lot for 3 days then sold. They have one know in thunderstorm grey that is on its 3rd day....bet it won't make the weekend.


Drove past Toyota today and they had probably 50 Tundras in stock if not more. They are flush. The Ford Dealership has about 5 Super Dutys on the lot and a handful of 150's, but some of them are the conversion models by Rocky Ridge or whatever and the others Tremors. Only a few "normal" half-tons. Ford is offering incentives on 1/2 tons and "select" models of Superdutys.

Stick it up your rear. I am pizzed off enough about it without getting lip from people over it.

I only stepped into the back office to sign the papers and sat on my rear for hours at a desk in the showroom . There were complications because it was being purchased by an out of state company that I own and was going to be registered in that state. Took them a while to figure it out.

Acuras are nice cars.

The MDX is consistently rated in the top 10 for reliability. I'm not a big fan of them myself but I wouldn't hesitate to put my wife in one.

I always enjoy "The Chase" for new vehicles. Thinking about another C8 Vette, High output Ram, Tacoma, 4-Runner,

I hate the whole process of buying a car. This is the longest its ever taken me to purchase one. After Months I finally bought one Saturday. Picked up a 25' Honda Pilot Trail Sport.
Surprisingly the whole process took less than 3 hours. I was able to get really close to the deal I wanted. Made a deal for several thousand under MSRP. I did put a time limit on the salesgirl and manager. They were only 5 mins. late on agreed upon time. Best experience I've ever had buying a car that wasn't from a close friend.

Honda are good to us , wife has 2017 Honda Pilot , see loves it . but she thinks she wants a Chevy SUV , loaded
I just bought a 2024 Chevy Z71Crew Cab Baby Diesel , it is nice , i had a 2020 Z71 , gas , i loved it . Get what you want

The only "pleasant" experience that I've ever had buying a new vehicle was with Classic BMW (they sold the business to Sewell a couple years ago). Yes, you are paying a premium for a BMW, but they didn't try any funny business and got us in and out of there fairly quickly. Also had a brand new loaner for us anytime we needed service and all maintenance except tires was included for the 1st 4 years.

I'd rather be beaten with a garden hose than buy a car from a dealership. I spent less time buying my house than each of my last two vehicles.

Why does everyone talk about buying a car like it’s the worst thing in the world?

I’ve bought around 10 new cars and never had a bad experience. Easy in/easy out.

For me the worst part is finding the one you want. After that it should be very simple.

Last truck I bought I ordered, was in and out in under an hour for the order process and when it got here I was in/out in less than an hour once it arrived.

It's my experience, along with that of family and friends, that if you are in and out that quickly, you are likely to be overpaying and/or getting hit with fees/product/services that you did not initially agree to.

Things have changed dramatically over the past two years. I bought a car two years ago and the dealerships wouldn’t negotiate on anything and we’re throwing all kinds of BS crap on top because there was no inventory. Bought a used car this past weekend and they were falling all over themselves to get people to buy. Lots of discounts were available and no BS add-ons anywhere to be seen. If you’re buying, now is a good time

if you are looking for objective, factual data...market hasnt really softened yet in new cars, used cars are a different story. Manheim (auto auction operator) publishes an index of used car pricing. You can also get some objective facts from the St. Louis Fed data (FRED database) on new cars. Prices will come down soon on new cars, IMHO...I would wait about 6 months...

https://site.manheim.com/en/services/consulting/used-vehicle-value-index.html

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUUR0000SETA01

They can all choke on their prices for a while as far as I'm concerned. The dealerships that added all the BS fees during Covid deserve every pain that's coming their way. They consider themselves "businessmen." They're not. Paint-by-numbers idiots that play a legal con game. Pound sand losers.

The auto industry has been in my opinion taking advantage of buyers.. I mean stupid people buying them are as much to blame but whatever. I won’t buy a new vehicle till some sanity comes back.

That 2020 i traded in didn't make it to the lot , it sold that fast . It had 19,000 miles , i bought it there in 2020

I’m not looking to buy anytime soon. I buy new and drive vehicles until the wrecking yard doesn’t want them. I also don’t think I have ever gotten a bargain on one .

Is there a consensus on what % of list price I ought to accept?

"Is there a consensus on what % of list price I ought to accept?"

No. All depends on the market and the exact model you want. Base models have less margin. Hard to find or top of the line units have a way more margin by percentage but demand eats up potential discounts. In the middle is where the juicy part is. Taking advantage? Well if people lined up at the door begging to over-pay, most would take it. That's a different matter than coming up with bogus charges. Like anything else, people that make blanket statements regarding an entire segment of the economy are generally ignorant.

Yes, it’s quite simple. The finance guy is a glorified salesman and they make commissions on how much extra crap they can try to slip by you at the time of signing the deal. I believe they also make extra money on how high they can make the interest rate on dealer financing.

I’ve seen stories of dealers covering the name up and trying to show customers with good credit a report from someone else with bad credit just to convince them that they didn’t qualify for a lower interest rate.

The whole back and forth with going to the manager during negotiation is just a ploy to keep you there as long as possible to wear you down until you’ll sign anything just to get out of there.

Nowadays, they will build their dealer financing into the negotiated price and if you then say you are going to pay cash or have your own financing, they’ll say that they now have to increase the price of the car because of it. They also try to build any manufacturer’s rebate into the negotiated price.

They have a lot of tricks and they do this every day. You are on their home court and they have the advantage over all but a few skilled negotiators.

The last two trucks I bought were conducted largely over the internet. I researched heavily for a couple of weeks beforehand. Had multiple dealers after my business. Finally came to an agreement with a dealer on the documented and detailed total price they emailed me. Walked in with my own pre-approved financing. At the beginning, politely told the finance guy I expected the numbers to match. Declined the finance guys offers. Paperwork was done in like 20 minutes.

'Went to high school with a guy that's the "Finance Manager" at a local Toyota dealership. 30+ years ago he was selling Amway and at the time assured me that he would spend the rest of his life in the Virgin Islands starting in about 5 years.

I quit going to that dealership for anything when I picked up my 4Runner after having it serviced and the entire contents of the glovebox was strewn all over the front passenger seat, I guess to get at the fuse box, AND there was a nice card with a scribbled signature saying they'd washed the vehicle - they hadn't.

Talked to ole friend at James Woods Decatur , he said Chevrolet dealers prices right now should be about the same . Trade -ins no , these guy's brother is GM at James Wood Decatur , and he works in Used Cars and trucks at Decatur , Randy Williams , he is a hoot .

Just like anything else, be careful with blankets and the word "they".

i guess it pays off having family as sales mgr/GM haven't been to a dealership in years. tells me when is a super deal, handles it all and delivers it . takes a few seconds to sign or present cash payment