Next year possibly, I may be looking to buy my first piece of land. I have a few questions that i was wondering if someone on here can help me with.

1. is the overall process similar to buying a house?
2. i have EXCELLENT credit, but have heard that securing loans for land are much harder. is this true? what can i expect for a good interest rate?
3. does the land have to be insured, if there are no structures on it? i mean, like monthly insurance?
4. any other info on the process would be great!

Harder than buying a house. A down payment of about 20% is normal, and the loan is usually only for 10 years. I went through the Texas Veterans Land Board, and they require 5% down and 30 year loan. But every bank I tried was 20% and 10 years.

Insurance is not required that I am aware of, but is cheap and I think necessary.

i figured the texas vet's land board would be my best bet. i was unaware of the 10 year land loan at most places... thanks for that info.

if you don't mind me asking, what was your interest rate? on the land board website, it shows over 7%. that seems way high to me.

Yeah, 7%. It sucks, but what else are you going to do. I could not afford the 10 year option. The 20% was no big deal, but the 10 years was not enough. The banks did not beat the 7% by much, you will not get a great interest rate on land. My credit score is over 800 and that is the best I could do.

yeah, i guess that's not bad.

after further reading though, i see that they will only finance up to 80k. that kinda sucks. i found a nice piece of property like 10 miles from my house for 155k. 85 acres. electric, water, already on site. but now it's out of my reach...darnit!

You might check with Texas Land Bank....I got my loan thru them...like Helo said interest rates are poor at best. One good thing about them is they have dividens that they pay each year back to stockholders, my payment last year was over $1700, in addition they hold some interest money on account and after 5 years either pay it to you or apply it to principal....long story short, I they pay back dropped interest rate about 1.5%...good luck

Through Texas Land Bank you can get a 20% down with 25 years. Going rate is about 7% to 7.5%.

great thread for all of us potential land buyers. Keep the good info coming guys! Are there any other unforseen costs that a new landowner should be aware of? I hope to purchase a small piece of land within the next year or two.

Taxes, try to get some kind of exemption. I have the veterans exemption, homestead, and pine exemption.

How much of a tax brake does an ag exemption actually get you?

All my exemptions lower my taxable value from 1100 an acre to 100 an acre.

That is great to know. Thanks Helo. I am hoping to purchase a place in the woods next year sometime.

Your welcome, I am sure there are folks on here that know a lot more about this than me. I only know what I have run across.

TONS! The place I hunt on now is about 300 acres and the taxes are $350 a year. If it is not in AG exempt or some other exempt status currently the process can take up to 3 years to establish the exemption. So it is critical to look at that when purchasing a property.
Other things are electric and water. Just because they are right on the road by your place doesn't mean it will be cheap or that you can tap into it. I know of a place that has electric by the road and it will cost a bit to get it to extend to where it is needed and there is water lines on the road. The kicker is that the water lines are loaded so until they upgrade the system no one else can tie into them. So that means a well if you want water. It's the little things like that will spike your costs once you buy if you don't do your homework.

Hunter_Man.....If you are in San Angelo, you need to check out Crockett National Bank. They do quite a bit of financing for people we sell land to (big and small tracts).

capital farm credit is who i used.
20% down with a 20 yr note.

rates will be higher than with a home loan since they are not tied to the same things on the back end. (how the banks borrow)

Capital Farm Credit does the dividend thing too.

you will want to think about things like tanks if it does not have one too.

we are on wildlife exemption (a form of ag exemption that does not require livestock) my taxes are just over $1 an acre.

Check with an appraiser first on the place you are looking at. Bank is going to go by what they think it is worth in many cases. I sent a place near where I hunt to an appraiser and he came in at 70% of the list value due to no improvements and other sales which can be hard to come by now. Said the bank would not do a loan for it unless you only took a loan out for 80% of the appraisal meaning your down payment would be giant. Maybe that is why it has been for sale for 3 years.

This is a great thread

I'm surprised at the number or people that don't know about the wildlife exemption. It gets you pretty much the same tax break as the ag exemption.

Almost any property that you somewhat manage will qualify. Ask your appraisal district about it.

Basically you have to do 3 of 7 management practices. Supplying suplemental food sorces, Supplying water and taking game surveys should do the trick.

I've seen some people add this exemption to their prperty when they get tired of messing with cattle to keep their ag exemption.

and it satisfies all the habitat managment needs for an MLD permit program if you choose to try MLD

I don't have land but have run into this in the past.
Easement's or possible easments
Windmills, mineral rights, etc
Is your neighbor going to fence you out

I did my deal in May/June....Lone Star Ag Credit...20 year amortization, fixed for 5 years @ 5.85%, and I put about 30% down. My plan is to have about 40% of it paid down by that 5th year, and then deal with refinancing it then or re-amortizing the loan.

Enjoyed dealing with the Lone Star crew out of New Boston.

You must have an AG exemption before you can convert to a Wildlife Exemption. It takes 5 years to build an AG history if the land you are buying does not have an AG exemption so be sure and check the records at the County Appraisal District office.

So is a 25 year with 20% down @ 7.5% about the best out there right now. Looking at some land right now to close within 60 days.

YOu can go lower, but it would likely be a variable rate loan.

For those interested I found a 25 year loan with 15% down @ 6% through Heritage Land Bank. About the best that I could find out there right now.

I'm under contract right now and am using Capital Farm Credit as well. Rates (15 year adjustable):

3 year reset: 5.8%
5 year reset: 6.4%
7 year reset: 7.0%
15 year fixed: 7.9%

I'm putting about 30% down and the loan has been approved, pending appraisal.

Did any of you have any issues with the land appraising at what you thought it would? That's really my only question now.

The appraisal is really nothing more than comparing what similar tracts of land in the area have sold for recently. In my area about 3k an acre depending on what the land looks like and what is on the land (electricity, water, and such).

Helo - Did you see the pics I put up of the place the other day? I bumped it a few times, but wasn't sure if you saw it.

I'm pretty sure I got the land for a steal, so if it doesn't appraise, I'm going to be pissed off.

No, I missed it. Where was it and what was the thread title?

Here it is.

It looks like you did find it. Land is right in between Caldwell and Lexington on the border of Lee and Burleson Counties. I'm trying not to think about it too much, because if it falls through I'm going to be depressed.

Yeah, just on the other side of Bryan. It will work out, might run across some problems, but that is how buying land goes. It seems to work out in the end. I took me about 6 months to close on mine.

This is a great topic. I just went throught this process this year, and it is VERY difficult to find information. Some suggestions from a guy who just went through it:

1) Get a good real estate broker that is familiar with the area to help you. I have bought homes without an agent, but this ain't buying a home. A good broker who is familiar with the area will provide you with a number of advantages:

a) He will know what is for sale out there. Unlike houses, not all land is listed for sale. A good broker will be able to show you things that you never knew were for sale.
b) He will know a great deal about the property you are looking at. Ownership history, bad neighbors, hunting history. These guys have lived there for years and have an amazing amount of knowledge about the history of most properties.
c) He will help you through all the things needed to be done to close. Loans, surveys, well tests, etc... things you likely do not even know need to be done if this is your first time.
d) He will have a ton of contacts to help you find local contractors/services. Want to build a home, fence, well, tank...a good broker can help you find someone.
e) Obviously he will understand the going rate for property in the area you are looking at, almost certainly, better then you do.
f) Finally, and this is BIG. He will help you understand all of the financial implications. I was shocked at how many financial surprises I had in the process were actually positive. Tax advantages of owning and improving your land are amazing, as mentioned earlier, ag exemption is amazing. Land loans are a bit more complicated/higher rates, but they can also have much more flexibile terms. Obviously, those advantages do not take the cost to zero (to be clear, no where close), but it may not cost as much as you think when you figure in tax savings.

Unless you really know what you are doing, get someone to help you, even if you think you know what your are going to buy.

2) Look at a bunch of places. Even if you love the place you are looking at now, look at some more. It will help you get a better feel for what you like/don't like, what you must have, want to have and must not have. I have been on a lot of places, but when I started looking at places from the perspective of this might be mine, I started noticing things that never really stood out to me before and seeing a variety of places helped me understand what was really important to me. You just start looking at things differently when it might be yours vs. just a lease.

3) If you have family and time with them is important to you, your family must LOVE the place too. I spend a lot of time on the ranch and I like being with my family, there has to be something there for my wife and daughter too. My son and I are more then happy being out there building fences, setting up feeders, walking the property. But the creek with the swimming hole attracts my daughter, a decent place to sleep makes my wife enjoy the place more. The final decision was a family decision, not just mine.

4) I would get a real estate lawyer to review all docs. It is really not that expensive and can avoid a nightmare if there are easement or access issues, mineral right issues. It is worth a few hundered dollars just to have a better sense of comfort that there are no surprises, and it is worth the cost of the ranch if the lawyer finds a big problem. I have been through legal issues on an easement associated with my house and trust me nobody wins, even if you win (I did), the cost,frustration, and the discomfort created with your neighbors (if they are involved) are not worth it.

5) Get a CPA or financial advisor and a lawyer (yea, I know that's two lawyers, but if the must exist use them to your advantage :-))who understands the financial impacts of buying property and setting up an agricultural business (if you are going to have livestock or lease grazing rights). Make sure you set this up right so that you do not lose tax benefits.

6) To directly answer one of your questions...Get insurance, it is very inexpensive and will help you sleep at night.

I am sure there is more, sorry this is so long, you just struck a cord with me as I just went through this and was surprised and frustrated by how little information is out there. I will also tell you that about six months into this, I absolutely love it. We use the property all the time, hunting, working, just being in the country it is all fun. I have a 10 yr old daughter and 11 yr old son, and this is just a great experience for them. We live in the city and I am really pleased that they are getting to experience a different way of life to some extent.

ttugmc, great post. thanks for all of your insight. this is a process I hope to experience soon.

You probably don't have anything to worry about. you'll probably be surprised about how close the appraisal comes into the selling price. Unless something is way off you should be fine. If it is way off, it is better that you find out up front.

Another thing you need to do is make sure you know who owns the property. In a lot of cases the land is in some kind of a trust or has several heirs with undivided interests. I say this because we leased 100 acres behind our place and then leased our farm and the 100 acres to a guy who worked the land. We cut three checks to the three owners. One day the family wanted to sell. We didnt buy it but and oil co. did and it turned out that there were 28 people that had an interest in the property. To avoid problems you need to have the abstract brought up to date. Abstracts show the ownership of the property going way back. When the abstract is updated then have an attorney review it to make sure everything is in order and you pay the right people.

Helomech, what is a veterans exemption?

I currently have a wildlife exemption and it seems to be no sweat. It just rolls from one year to the next. However, others have posted that they have to have annual plans that are big PITA's. I assume that each County can do what they want with their taxing authority. If I could change to some kind of veterans exemption, that wouldn't change (assuming again) from year to year.

The biggest factors on buying land are the ag exemption which you have to immediately continue or face huge taxes, NEIGHBORS, access, mineral rights, finances, etc.

If you're just looking for a place to hunt, leasing is usually a lot cheaper. I've often said that if I wasn't a landowner I could afford to hunt Africa and take guided fishing trips at the lakes of my choice.

Regarding land ownership, you will often hear that they aren't making anymore of it. They don't need to. There was a lot of it made in the beginning and it's still out there. And, right now, it's tough to sell. Not a lot of potential buyers have the credit rating, down payment or disposable income to buy anything used for recreational property.

If you are a disable veteran than you qualify, just bring your disabled veteran paperwork to the county tax office, and it is in addition to other exemptions. You don't have to pick one.

Looks like I may have a done deal. Just waiting on the final survey to split the property up so I can get my 65 acres. This is for recreational duck hunting land. 55 acres in bottom wetlands and 10 acres up top for a cabin later on. If you can qualify, rates and terms are really good right now.
Should be closing Dec. 1st.

Awesome, congrats to you. Hope everything goes smooth.

I just went through all this several months ago. What I learned:

I found a better rate and terms at a local bank than at the federal land bank (agcredit.com). Also was able to get a 15% down payment instead of 20, and the loan is fixed for 5 years and then re-negotiated. I used Jacksboro National Bank.
Insurance is not required without structures, but I took out a 1 million $ liability policy in case some yahoo sneaks in and hurts himself and tries to sue me. It's only about 130$ a year through Farm Bureau.
Electricity and water can be expensive. I'm in the situation someone mentioned above. I can pay 18k$ to run a line from the closest municipality, but that can't happen because they are at capacity. So it's water well time. Drilling a test well is 8$ per foot with a 70' minimum. That will be happening soon.
The AG exemption is worth it. My 115 acres is 180$ per year property taxes with it, 1800$ without it. If you lose an AG exemption, it can take 5 years to get it back according to the Appraisal District folks.
Talk to the locals before you buy. Nothing worse than finally finding a place you really want and then finding out they are getting ready to put in a motocross track next door (believe me, it happens).
You will hemorrhage money when you buy your own place, but it will be for YOU. No more worrying about losing the lease, etc.

have you tried getting a well witcher to find your ideal well location.

i know some dont believe in it, but i grew up watching my dad find water line after water line with a set of copper witches...

on my place, i walked around with the witcher for 30 minutes watching him do his thing. he marked spot after spot and then stopped the witching and went back and triangulated the two best spots where the water tables crossed or where the water source was strongest.

we drilled on that spot and got a nice flowing well out of it.
it was almost 300 feet down to get to water, but it has been a strong well so far.

that was only $200 for his services. he has since done around 10 other wells on the ranch with no "dry wells"

Hunter_Man,
I want to thank you for this thread and I want to thank everybody that has commented.
I have often wondered about every single issue brought up on this thread.
I will be creating a file just for this...
So, when the day comes...I'll have a good idea of the direction to go in.

Oh, one question...what are the qualifications for Ag exempt?

What type of closing costs do you hae to pay for this type deal? Just got my wife's support to buy land instead of leasing.

congrats texas_sooner! I got my wife's support a few months ago too so we are in the process of getting financially "ready" for this. We will need between $4000-$10,000 just for a down payment. Keep us posted on your progress, this will be a fun thread to watch!

Rates won't be great because of the risk associated with land loans that are not within a city's limits. Most Banks won't give more than 80% of the appraised value. From the Bank's point of view, if the loan defaults, what is their ability to collect the loan proceeds through liquidation of the collateral (the land).

thanks dr730. When I mentioned buying our own land, and she said she liked the idea, I spent half the work day looking through websites selling land. Funny how these things change spending priorities. I was looking at a new truck for next year, but now I'll gladly keep my paid off Silverado another few years.

I know exactly what you mean. I'm not even leasing this year in an effort to try to get to where we can actually do this. I'm gonna drive my silverado until the wheels fall off, and then fix it and keep driving it some more! AND, we are gonna stay in our little house instead of getting a bigger place. Priorities! LOL.

You got to have total buy in from the spouse becuase you think you spend a lot of time at the lease. Wait until you own the land and you just want to "go check on it". I took my wife around to see about 4 to 5 properties over the last 6 months. The only property she was happy with was the one that was only 45 minutes away from the house. It was great for me because this was also a place I have hunted for 4 years and know very well already.
The biggest hurdle for most people is the down payment. I'm not sure where the $4,000 to $10,000 came from as stated before you are going to need 20% of the appraised value (so hopefully the appraisal will be same or more as the purchase price). So if you are looking at a small peice of property for $100,000 (on the cheap end) you will need $20,000 just for the down payment. Your closing costs will be anywhere from $2,000 to $4,000.
I'm just very happy that God has given us the opportunity to do this without having to go into debt.

We're closing on Friday. I just built my feeders and have everything ready to go. I'm heading straight from the closing to the property to get everything going.

Process was actually really easy. We went under contract almost exactly 1 month ago.

Congrats cameron00. I be you're really anxious for Friday to get here. If it was me, I'd probably be too excited to sleep Thursday night

If you are building a single family permanent structure and they are a public water supply they can't legally decline service. They'll try....

well I have been looking at smaller places out of state around $30,000-$50,000 and was figuring a down payment of around 15%-20%. If I buy in Texas all that would probably go way up to about what you are talking about.

Sounds like you will have a great place pretty soon! Congrats.

Two of the best sites I've found are www.landsoftexas.com and www.texashuntingland.com

Just burned another morning on the interent looking for some land to buy.

TX_LT230FH, that first website is helpful. Thanks for posting.

happens all the time.... fun aint it!

Man, where I hunt the same listings on landsoftexas have been on there for over a year with new ones added at even higher prices. My old lease is in one of the pictures and it wasn't worth $1,000 total just to lease it. More land for sale than I have ever seen and no comps to support them since nothing has sold even close to what they are asking. And less money out there to buy with. Our own moderators land is down to $1,295 an acre and last year they would not go below $1,600. Times have changed.

Now this is funny! Texas hunting land has South African land for sale!

http://www.texashuntingland.com/Listings/2925SouthAfrica.htm

Well, Im dealing with a purchase right now. Not recreational funting land, but a 70 acre farm. Will be living there. MY loan fell through when they realized how much land was with it. Had a 30 year fixed locked in at 4.875%. But, apparently, no one will do a regular loan when so much land is involved.

So, now the best rate Ive found is a 5 year ARM at 6.5 % and 15% down on a 30 year note with no origination fee. Sure hate to do an adjustable mortgage but so far everyone has told me its impossible to do a fixed rate loan on a farm where most of the value is in the land. That mortgage is with City National Bank in Yantis.

I called several of the AG lenders and their rates where higher.

Anyone have any other suggestions? I can do a down of 20% on the purchase price of 180K. Have great cresit, and income to be approve on a larger loan. Would appreciate any help.

Is the reason they won't do that b/c they don't think current prices will even hold up? Too much risk on their part?

TXduckman,
The money is readily available, at least out this way it is. We have lenders contacting us LOOKING for loans to MAKE. They are local banks and Ag Lenders, but they are there. Terms aren't outrageous either. Of course, it could be because land is still quite a bit cheaper in most of this area than the rest of the state too.

Some good infor here, going to stick it.

Well, I have called a total of 20 banks and ag bank but the only one who comes close to the 6.5% 5 yr ARM is Legegacy Ag in sulphur springs and they offer the same 30yr loan in a 5 yr ARM at 6% but require an extra 5% down, and a $1000 loan fee. Think Ill be going with CNB in Yantis. I even called all the big AG banks around the state. Guess Ill just have to buy it now, and try and refinance within 5 years using my VA loan or something.

Nathan-I'm going with an AG bank becuase of the Co-Op aspect and being paid a dividend each year if the banks does well. I had to pay the origination fee ($1000) but will make that back with the dividends in no time. with similar rate as you are getting with a 5 year ARM on a 25 year note.
Adjustable is how the AG banks are able to be profitable. You can get a fixed rate but you will be looking at 8% or more.

Nathan, Please do not get an ARM. its like playing russian roulette with your life.

Better that you live in a shack, with a future.

than live in a shack becuase you lost everything.

With Obama, + whoever = gambling on the future.

Good advice if there was a real choice. When buying raw land that is how business is done now. Mostly because of AG banks that want to "guarantee" they will make money and not go out of business like some are doing now a days. These aren't regular ARMs that are suckering buyers into more loan than they can afford.

remember the 80's. 15% interest...

maybe you can split this thing up. House + some land. low interest fixed 30yr, low down payment.
the remaining land at 15yrs + max down.

No-Tox is right about these not being the type of ARM's meant to lure people in. The AG Lending institutions are more conservative, and didn't participate in that practice for the most part. The same can be said for many of the local banks that are still very strong.
Most of these 20 year Ammortized, 5 year fixed loans are capped somehwere in the mid to high 8's (at least the ones my clients have gotten lately).

Buy it with your IRA.

be careful and check w/ tax advisor. I'm not sure if the exemption is applicable in this case. Make sure of the tax implications before using a retirement acct. Unless you're over 59 1/2. then doesn't matter.

how important is it to try and get mineral rights these days, it seems that not many people want to give them up or they dont have rights with the sale

Its important IMO but good luck getting them with the crazy oil and gas market now.

Minerals just flat aren't owned by many current owners these days. You can find out who does own them and do your best to buy them out if you want, but they're not going to sell cheap typically.

Read my ad in land and leases. I am giving full minerals and there is a well ..That is the back 15 acres not the front .

I should rephrase that...

There are still plenty of places where you can get minerals on land, but those places are typically places where the likelihood of valuable minerals isn't high. Because anywhere that is a hot spot for oil & gas will have speculators making offers on mineral rights. If the owners turned down the speculators because they didn't want someone drilling on their land, but are now selling it, they will price the mineral rights into the price of the land.

People aren't stupid. Most of the places I've looked at and inquired as to mineral rights have been 1 of 3 answers:

1. Don't own the minerals - sold before current owners bought or current owners already sold.

2. Won't sell minerals or will sell minerals for an additional $40,000.

3. Sure, you can have the mineral rights. This isn't an area where natural gas or oil is drilled for.

Any idea on how water is considered? It may be the most important "mineral" ever!!!!

Some people even keep their water rights, wind rights are being kept in west texas. The most important thing to do is take your time,shop around and make sure your not buying more than you can afford. Don't become discouraged when something goes wrong. My wife and I have used the Texas Land Bank, and they have been great. You do have to have 20% down though, but we got our note for 30 yrs. I second and third the amount of time and money you will spend on your new property, but to me it is well worth having something to leave my kids. Property values only increase, it's the most stable investment anyone can make.

They don't increase when more land keeps popping up in this market. If you buy now, you better be ready to hold onto it for a LONG time.

Starting to be a buyers market if there are buyers. Land is down to $1,800 an acre in Montague on a place near us though it doesn't look that great. That is what it was going for 6 years ago. It was around $2,400+ I believe recently. Values only increase if someone pays the increase. Way too much out there to support the buying levels. We have had land for sale now going on 4 years near us and they won't drop the price... Makes no sense if they are actually serious. Still new properties are popping up for $3,000 an acre but you can lease for a heck of a lot less if you just want to hunt.

http://www.countryhomesoftexas.com/texas/index.cfm?detail=&inv_id=89737

A lot of people list land for sale under the "if the price is right" idealogy. They don't really want or need to sell, but will if they can a certain amount.

That amount is usually way above market value and the land doesn't sell and they don't care. You can tell who really needs to sell by their pricing.

If you look on "landsoftexas.com", close to 100% of the listings are very significantly higher than what the land actually trades at. I know that because I've been part of the buying process on 2 pieces I found there:

1 - 40 acres near Hallettsville. Ask: $196k Contract: $122k
2 - 40 acres near Caldwell. Ask: $178k Contract $128k

The ask is basically a suggestion. Many times it's way off.

I am a farm and ranch broker and I agree with cameron00 on his assessment. It is now a buyers market and most sales are 12% to 25% below list price. Some areas of the State are holding up well while others have really taken a hit. Overall sales prices are about where they were three years ago, more in some areas, less in others.

On insurance, you may want to carry liability, even if you have no improvements, etc. If someone (even a tresspasser) gets hurt on your land, you're liable.

It's not quite as simple as this. If you're found to have been contributorily negligent, you can be found partially liable.

Not just cut and dry "If a trespasser gets hurt on you're land, you have to pay them."

If your land has no improvements and isn't used for farming, you're likely already covered under your homeowner's policy. Check with your insurance agent.

The process is similar to buying a house, but expect to do a full income/ asset verification. As long as you haven't had mortgage lates, delinquint accts, no bk's or forclosures, you should be good. Rates will vary for non owner occupied/ vacant land, but with rates today, I would expect high 5's or low 6% range. Taxes for vacant land should be low/very minimal, insurance shouldn't be required as long as the lending institution does not require. Like most have stated, plan on putting 20-30% down financing no more than about 20 years, possibly less...definatly check with your local banks/ credit unions..most of your bigger banks will not do vacant land/ lot loans anymore..
The best advice I can provide::: Make sure you fully understand the terms (rate, fixed/adj, balloon or fully amortized, cost, rate/apr...Remember your signing your name to that note. Good luck!

We have our nearly 1500 acre place SW of Sonora for sale and this is the problem we are running into. No one loaning money out on land, or we would have already had it sold.

That's the type of faulty logic that created the Residential Mortgage Crisis/Bubble of the 2003-2008 time frame. The banks were underwriting 10%+ annual appreciation into their models, which was clearly unsustainable, and resulted in a huge bubble. I think land banks in Texas are clearly more conservative than that, and realize we may be in a time with 0% appreciation for the next 10 years or so (if you're lucky, it could be negative depending on this current recession!).

Good topic here by the way!

I went thru the texas veterans land board. It took about 4 months but it was worth it 5% down and thirty year note of 519.00 on 76 acres in west texas. Ive got nice bucks,turkey,quail,aoudad,hogs,dove,bobcats, and a mountain lion to boot. Tell you what its the best thing ive done with my 401k money. There is nothing like calling your place your own. Remember there not making land anymore, and it is only going to go up. I remember seeing 295.00 acred prices in land in sanderson texas now its going for a little over a grand. Just about everyone else is 20% down and no one will finance more than 20yrs. If your a veteran and you are interested my neighbor is selling his 55 acre tract for 1000.00 acre.

I can sell you land in sanderson/dryden area for $395/acre all day long....anyone interested?

Great post and a lot of good information. I recommend getting an agent that represents you that has vast experience in buying and selling land. Restriction, mineral rights, easements, water, electric, roads, power lines, neighbors and a lot more need to be considered. Buying land is very tricking and there can be possible hidden problems that are known or unknown to the seller. Just as a side note, I have learned that out in the country, good fences make good neighbors. Good luck.

The process is similar. However, typically the lender will require at least 25% down. This environment is not the best; however, lenders are (were) willing to lend out to 25 years. No, if there is no structure to insure, the lender typically will not require insurance. For small tracts, the seller may be willing to owner finance. In a year, no telling what interest rates will be. Unless there is some real banking/wall street reformn as the current adminstration seeks, things very well might be the same they are now in terms of credit availability - very poor. Under the deregulation policies, banks were allowed to go into much more lucrative businesses and they just are loaning money out these days.

buying land (as a place to hunt) is harder than buying a house. you either have to have enough money to buy a big enough place that what your neighbors do isn't a big deal. or you have to find a smaller tract that isn't already surrounded by other small tracts. it takes a while to locate the right place.

you do not have to carry insurance on it. you can, but it is not mandatory. the only reason you would carry insurance is for liability purposes if the property is leased or saw lots of hunting guests.

for financing, most traditional banks will not finance land for more than 15yrs. you need to look for a land bank. check with texas ag finance or capital farm credit. they will lend out to 30yrs.

we bought our place 3yrs ago now. it took us six years to line it up though. don't get in a hurry on it. do your homework on the places.

Erich

Land is tough to buy, I bought my ranch 5 years ago...at that time down payments were 20%,Now they are 30% so get ready to shell out some cash. As far as insurance I dont have any and its not required,as far as good interest rates, dont expect that any more, we have excellent credit,and own stores that we have paid close to a million dollars for, we get better interest on them than the land. A good land interest I would look to pay at least 8% now. My payments on 504 acres that I paid 650.00 an acre for and put 58000 down on, are 33,000 a year, I make bi-annual payments 16,500 twice a year.Things have changed in the last 5 years, money is harder to get, and land is higher, good luck !!!

Hi, I'm new here, but I have been saving and have a down payment for some land. I know not all or even many realtors do this, but I have to ask: For those of you who've bought land using a buyer's realtor, how do you know they have your best interest in mind since they get paid on commission? Finding a good rate is one thing, but the price is still a huge factor up front. I know when I bought my second house, I used a buyer's realtor and it made the seller's realtor very angry and was generally an unpleasant experience.

I'm looking to buy 100-150 acres to hunt in east Texas within the next year or so.

Also, are there any suggestions on factors to look for when judging deer population without the ability to spend a season scouting it first?

lots of cameras and corn piles and see what all is showing up. I went in blind hunting a new property a while back. I had been hunting on my lease and my g/f, now wife, said there was an old deer stand on the place she had just bought, we should go sit in it and just see what walks out. I gave her the go-ahead to pull the trigger on the first buck that stepped out..... a cpl weeks later we put cams out and I've been kickin' myself ever since for telling her to shoot that deer.

Thanks Rifleman.

I've never bought hunting land before, but my dad bought some rural land as an investment (he doesn't hunt) in East Texas and there were no deer signs at all (had a few hogs come through though).

Is it typical for a seller to allow you to go put out feeders or cameras? I wouldn't think they'd be too open to that.

I was assuming you meant judging the pop. after purchasing the place. I wouldn't think it would be too easy to get cameras on the place before hand.

What area are you looking to buy?

I have a pretty wide area I'm looking at. My family is all in Smith and Anderson county, so pretty much anything in that area (Tyler, Palestine, Jacksonville, Athens, etc.). Henderson County, Cherokee County, Anderson County... I'd imagine Smith county's not worth it with the higher population. Maybe a little further west, but not too much further west than that. One of the sights had some Neches River frontage that might be good for fishing or ducks, too, it was about $1,500 an acre, which seems more reasonable than other places I'd seen.

I'd hate to buy land and find out there hasn't been a deer there in 20 years. That would kind of ruin it for me. I live in Waco now, so something close to a 2-3 hour drive would be nice, especially since I can stay with them while I'm hunting.

have a cpl friends who have land between Alto & Rusk and they have some bruisers to hunt every year. If I remember correctly, I saw an oil company selling land around 800-1200/acre around New Summerfield.

Yeah, New Summerfield would definitely be in the area I'm interested in. Thanks for taking the time to give me your input.

your welcome.

Last question - is 100 or 150 acres worth it? It's a big price up front, but I've been saving money for almost 10 years now and I've hardly hunted at all because of work, so I'm a little rusty on deer hunting in general.

I'm guessing that it depends mostly on the specific tract of land... I mostly hear about these 1,000 acre leases, 10,000 acre leases, etc... can 100-150 acres be managed to produce good deer if it's a good tract of land (i.e. not 150 acres of cow pasture, next to a shopping mall, etc.).

sending you a pm.

Honestly, buying that amount of land with the intent to grown big deer is very, very hard. It has to be in a very good location that allows you to siphon deer off of a much larger tract of land. It certainly can be done, but remember location, location, location. If your sole purpose is deer hunting, get a lease If its to have an investment in the future, I think its a good idea (just bought 140 AC's myself). I was looking for the right place/price for about 2 years before pulling the trigger.

Thanks Kevin!

This has been a really informative thread! I hope to own a piece of Texas soil one day too.

We went through capital farm credit to finance the raw land.We have a 30 yr mortgage and had to put 20% down.Capital farm is usually 2% above prime unless they have changed. Most banks dont like to finance raw land or more than 15 acres, even with a house it. Usually if ag exempt in some way you will pay only a fraction of the taxes. You can look what the person paid the year before online or the realistate agent will tell you. But i will tell you the cheapest taxes is usually on tree production even cheaper than other types of ag.

Do these rates change if you purchase land with a small house on it? Say you purchase 50 acres with a little 1400 sq. foot home, wouldn't it then fall under a typical home loan with a better rate thus saving you money?

Interest rates are really low for people who are keeping cds in the bank. You may consider trying to buy the land on a land contract. I have worked on alot of these and they work really well if the seller does not need all the money up front. You can negotiate your down payment any where from ten to twenty percent down. Since a "CD" only pays one to three percent, sometimes the seller is happy to get 5 to 6 percent on there money. In short, the seller becomes your banker.

hey guys i need some help....im looking to buy some land somewhere close to dallas county and i found one in bowie county..does anybody know how the hunting is down there?any good sized bucks??

East Texas? Good luck unless it is big! Unless you want live on property, you better get something big like 1000+ acres or you better lease if you want to manage deer. When you can pay $9 an acre for somerhing worth $2,500 an acre, not a bad deal to lease... No guarantee it will go up and it hasn't in 8 years.

how about red river county..anybody know about the hunting there...and thanks txduckman.

Getting into land ownership is hard - Getting out might be harder. Owning can be relentless work and with limited results. At this stage of the game I don't think I would recommend it. Perhaps when you could count on values to rise it made more sense., But it isn't so today, in fact the land prices are falling in many areas. I get the "run your own place" thinking but you most definatly can lease cheaper. Yes, I'm trying to throw ice water on the idea as a favor to a wavoring future land owner. Just pay the lease fee and roll on brother.

might keep this in mind, the more improvements you build the more your taxes will be.

one thing to consider is...you own it, you are never broke.

Great thread. Alot of good info here. So, my brother and I are looking for a place between here and Oklahoma City - we have family there that would use the place. So far, we've considered several places in Texas and Oklahoma. My question is this: If I live in Dallas, and deer and turkey hunting are the most important thing to me, how far east can I go and still be pleased with the place? For example, there is a place in Titus County out by Mt. Pleasant. Are there any deer out there? Anyone know anything about the deer and Turkey in Atoka, OK? Thanks

Yes, there are deer in titus county. The hunting is so-so ;there may be a few turkey (eastern strain) more novelty than serious hunting population. Not to belabor the point but reread what I'm telling you about land ownership (reply above) Don't do it --- I'm your best buddy right now trying to save you from yourself.
As far as if you own it you are never broke --- uh, your always broke, taxes,repairs, that one more project to get it just right.

Thanks, olducker. I appreciate the insight. Regardless of lease or own, anyone else know how far east from Dallas I can go and still have a good place to Deer and Turkey hunt? Maybe I'm asking the wrong question. Put it this way: where is the best country between OKC and Dallas, to hunt deer and turkey (can go east or west a bit)?

YellowDog, I have owned several pieces of Texas and Okla, currently have a place in limestone county. Turkeys east of 1-35 in Texas are hit an miss, have a buddy with a place outside of Atoka that has turkeys but they are not over run with them. like olducker says there is always one more project to do.. but if you have family and friends there is no better place to bond than your own land. As far as being broke that has not happened to me, if you want it buy it, life is short and I have never seen a casket with a cash lock box in it.....

I have now owned my property for about a year now and am loving it. Is it costing me more than a lease, YES. But it is also nice to know that I'm the owner and any improvements I do on the property is mine. I don't have to worry about leases being pulled out from under me or dealing with others. Mine is only 65 acres, but my main hunting is ducks so the 50 acres of wetlands is what I wanted.
The one thing you want to keep in mind is try to get something within reasonable driving distance if you have a family. Trying to mix in family time and working on the property is hard if you are driving more time than spending on the land.
Money isn't going to get any cheaper to borrow than it is now. Most land is at the lowest you are going to find it. So if you have the means to do it now, I say go for it.
YellowDog31 - Try to get something east of I-35 around the Red River, either side of it.

Some have suggested using qualified money (i.e. inside a retirement plan) to purchase real estate. While I am not providing specific tax advice, I would caution that personal use of that land could cause the entire basis (purchase price) or a portion thereof to be a deemed distribution. Additionally, placing debt on property purchased with qualified money can cause issues as well. It can possibly be done but I would suggest using one of the companies that specialize in that area.

Another suggestion is to not just get a real estate broker but get a broker with experience in ranch sales. There is a big difference. A farm/ranch broker can evaluate the value of standing grass and timber. This can help you determine what food sources are available. Do the same when you get the appraisal. A farm/ranch bank will know this but a standard bank may send out your standard residential appraiser. Usually the bank drives the choice but you can make sure you are getting someone that knows ranch land.

You can also consider buying a place that has adjacent crop land. You can lease the crop land to help defer the carrying costs. This type of set up COULD (consult your tax advisor) allow you to deduct some of the carrying costs. Consult a tax advisor experienced in farm/ranch as they can give you more insight than someone with less experience.

If you own land that is not your primary residence and want to sell it for better land, consider a tax free exchange, specially if you have a gain on it I.R.C Section 1031. There are different ways to do this and you need to plan this IN ADVANCE.

If you don't turn it into a farm/ranch property have your tax professional consider attaching an election to your return to capitalize carrying costs. This can add usually non-deductible expenses to the basis (cost) of the property so when you do sell it you will have less taxable gain.

If you don't have the mineral rights, consider the likelyhood that someone may want access to those minerals someday. With some restrictions, you cannot block access to the minerals. This means if you own the surface rights and they want to drill on your property, you may not have a lot of say, but you can and will get reimbursed for damages.

Consider the environmental aspects. If you buy land in certain areas and it is determined that those areas have habitat conducive to endangered species, you may lose your ability to hunt the property. Not likely to happen but it needs to be considered. Under the current legal framework, if you discover endangered species on your property you are held hostage, not rewarded, which is why SSS seems to be the standard operating procedure. Bassackwards incentive but that is what you get with congress.

Once you start to own land, specially if it is out of state, update your will and if you have little ones I would suggest a trust be created. Talk to a lawyer, I'm not one but I play one TV.

Just my 175/hr suggestions but free for all of you who keep our hunting traditions alive.

Last bit of advice. Talk to your attorney and tax professional. Don't assume anything is chisled in stone.

Great posts and information from all.

Some more FYI I thought Id pass on.

I just got off the phone with Heritage land bank. He said my wife has to be on the loan app. Which is a deal killer because we just got married and her credit has some bruises from a few years back.

Also on the down payment, most banks are just looking for equity to start, not necc money out of you pocket. If you buy land for 1500 and acre and it appraises for 21-2200 an acre you wont have to come out of pocket almost anything

If you have a sizeable nest egg and you don't need at retirement, the qualified money ie (ira) is a good avenue. Just be careful, no personnel use. All money made on leasing off ag or hunting rights have to go back in ira capsule. Take out an acre or two for your home. Get a professional company to handle for you and pay a small maintenance fee per year. Entrust in Houston Tx. is such a company for self directed investments.If you buy now and land goes up, you will pay apprasial price (which could be exorbitant) when you decide to start removing it back out of ira. But I would check with a pro. My 2 cents.

Great post....Hopefully getting ready to take the plunge in Montague county or Leon County. Budget is $200,000...25% down....

If there are no structures your Home Insurance/Liability will cover it. Depending on who as access to your land and what you do with it...you will want to consider raising your liability coverage

Anyone have experience with using the Texas Land board route for a loan?

Everyone. I'm new to this forum and am amazed at how much info is freely shared between all of you. I, myself, have been looking to buy some acreage and this info has been very informative. Thanks!

I really wish my wife and I could purchase some land for my boys to grow up with. Problem is that saving 20% is dang near impossible for us. May take years to do that. And I make good money. When we bought our house I was able to get in it on a 15 year note at 0% down. My credit score is in the High 700s. Has anyone ever heard of anyone getting a loan at 0% down?

most banks won't touch it, but not sure exactly of what requirements they have to go by.

I have seen owner financed places for 10 percent down. I talked to a few local banks that will do 15 percent down. If you qualify for Texas vets they have a low down plan. Good luck.