question about buying land...

Next year possibly, I may be looking to buy my first piece of land. I have a few questions that i was wondering if someone on here can help me with.

1. is the overall process similar to buying a house?
2. i have EXCELLENT credit, but have heard that securing loans for land are much harder. is this true? what can i expect for a good interest rate?
3. does the land have to be insured, if there are no structures on it? i mean, like monthly insurance?
4. any other info on the process would be great!

Harder than buying a house. A down payment of about 20% is normal, and the loan is usually only for 10 years. I went through the Texas Veterans Land Board, and they require 5% down and 30 year loan. But every bank I tried was 20% and 10 years.

Insurance is not required that I am aware of, but is cheap and I think necessary.

i figured the texas vet's land board would be my best bet. i was unaware of the 10 year land loan at most places... thanks for that info.

if you don't mind me asking, what was your interest rate? on the land board website, it shows over 7%. that seems way high to me.

Yeah, 7%. It sucks, but what else are you going to do. I could not afford the 10 year option. The 20% was no big deal, but the 10 years was not enough. The banks did not beat the 7% by much, you will not get a great interest rate on land. My credit score is over 800 and that is the best I could do.

yeah, i guess that's not bad.

after further reading though, i see that they will only finance up to 80k. that kinda sucks. i found a nice piece of property like 10 miles from my house for 155k. 85 acres. electric, water, already on site. but now it's out of my reach...darnit!

You might check with Texas Land Bank....I got my loan thru them...like Helo said interest rates are poor at best. One good thing about them is they have dividens that they pay each year back to stockholders, my payment last year was over $1700, in addition they hold some interest money on account and after 5 years either pay it to you or apply it to principal....long story short, I they pay back dropped interest rate about 1.5%...good luck

Through Texas Land Bank you can get a 20% down with 25 years. Going rate is about 7% to 7.5%.

great thread for all of us potential land buyers. Keep the good info coming guys! Are there any other unforseen costs that a new landowner should be aware of? I hope to purchase a small piece of land within the next year or two.

Taxes, try to get some kind of exemption. I have the veterans exemption, homestead, and pine exemption.

How much of a tax brake does an ag exemption actually get you?

All my exemptions lower my taxable value from 1100 an acre to 100 an acre.

That is great to know. Thanks Helo. I am hoping to purchase a place in the woods next year sometime.

Your welcome, I am sure there are folks on here that know a lot more about this than me. I only know what I have run across.

TONS! The place I hunt on now is about 300 acres and the taxes are $350 a year. If it is not in AG exempt or some other exempt status currently the process can take up to 3 years to establish the exemption. So it is critical to look at that when purchasing a property.
Other things are electric and water. Just because they are right on the road by your place doesn't mean it will be cheap or that you can tap into it. I know of a place that has electric by the road and it will cost a bit to get it to extend to where it is needed and there is water lines on the road. The kicker is that the water lines are loaded so until they upgrade the system no one else can tie into them. So that means a well if you want water. It's the little things like that will spike your costs once you buy if you don't do your homework.

Hunter_Man.....If you are in San Angelo, you need to check out Crockett National Bank. They do quite a bit of financing for people we sell land to (big and small tracts).

capital farm credit is who i used.
20% down with a 20 yr note.

rates will be higher than with a home loan since they are not tied to the same things on the back end. (how the banks borrow)

Capital Farm Credit does the dividend thing too.

you will want to think about things like tanks if it does not have one too.

we are on wildlife exemption (a form of ag exemption that does not require livestock) my taxes are just over $1 an acre.

Check with an appraiser first on the place you are looking at. Bank is going to go by what they think it is worth in many cases. I sent a place near where I hunt to an appraiser and he came in at 70% of the list value due to no improvements and other sales which can be hard to come by now. Said the bank would not do a loan for it unless you only took a loan out for 80% of the appraisal meaning your down payment would be giant. Maybe that is why it has been for sale for 3 years.

This is a great thread

I'm surprised at the number or people that don't know about the wildlife exemption. It gets you pretty much the same tax break as the ag exemption.

Almost any property that you somewhat manage will qualify. Ask your appraisal district about it.

Basically you have to do 3 of 7 management practices. Supplying suplemental food sorces, Supplying water and taking game surveys should do the trick.

I've seen some people add this exemption to their prperty when they get tired of messing with cattle to keep their ag exemption.

and it satisfies all the habitat managment needs for an MLD permit program if you choose to try MLD

I don't have land but have run into this in the past.
Easement's or possible easments
Windmills, mineral rights, etc
Is your neighbor going to fence you out

I did my deal in May/June....Lone Star Ag Credit...20 year amortization, fixed for 5 years @ 5.85%, and I put about 30% down. My plan is to have about 40% of it paid down by that 5th year, and then deal with refinancing it then or re-amortizing the loan.

Enjoyed dealing with the Lone Star crew out of New Boston.

You must have an AG exemption before you can convert to a Wildlife Exemption. It takes 5 years to build an AG history if the land you are buying does not have an AG exemption so be sure and check the records at the County Appraisal District office.

So is a 25 year with 20% down @ 7.5% about the best out there right now. Looking at some land right now to close within 60 days.

YOu can go lower, but it would likely be a variable rate loan.

For those interested I found a 25 year loan with 15% down @ 6% through Heritage Land Bank. About the best that I could find out there right now.

I'm under contract right now and am using Capital Farm Credit as well. Rates (15 year adjustable):

3 year reset: 5.8%
5 year reset: 6.4%
7 year reset: 7.0%
15 year fixed: 7.9%

I'm putting about 30% down and the loan has been approved, pending appraisal.

Did any of you have any issues with the land appraising at what you thought it would? That's really my only question now.

The appraisal is really nothing more than comparing what similar tracts of land in the area have sold for recently. In my area about 3k an acre depending on what the land looks like and what is on the land (electricity, water, and such).

Helo - Did you see the pics I put up of the place the other day? I bumped it a few times, but wasn't sure if you saw it.

I'm pretty sure I got the land for a steal, so if it doesn't appraise, I'm going to be pissed off.

No, I missed it. Where was it and what was the thread title?

Here it is.

It looks like you did find it. Land is right in between Caldwell and Lexington on the border of Lee and Burleson Counties. I'm trying not to think about it too much, because if it falls through I'm going to be depressed.

Yeah, just on the other side of Bryan. It will work out, might run across some problems, but that is how buying land goes. It seems to work out in the end. I took me about 6 months to close on mine.

This is a great topic. I just went throught this process this year, and it is VERY difficult to find information. Some suggestions from a guy who just went through it:

1) Get a good real estate broker that is familiar with the area to help you. I have bought homes without an agent, but this ain't buying a home. A good broker who is familiar with the area will provide you with a number of advantages:

a) He will know what is for sale out there. Unlike houses, not all land is listed for sale. A good broker will be able to show you things that you never knew were for sale.
b) He will know a great deal about the property you are looking at. Ownership history, bad neighbors, hunting history. These guys have lived there for years and have an amazing amount of knowledge about the history of most properties.
c) He will help you through all the things needed to be done to close. Loans, surveys, well tests, etc... things you likely do not even know need to be done if this is your first time.
d) He will have a ton of contacts to help you find local contractors/services. Want to build a home, fence, well, tank...a good broker can help you find someone.
e) Obviously he will understand the going rate for property in the area you are looking at, almost certainly, better then you do.
f) Finally, and this is BIG. He will help you understand all of the financial implications. I was shocked at how many financial surprises I had in the process were actually positive. Tax advantages of owning and improving your land are amazing, as mentioned earlier, ag exemption is amazing. Land loans are a bit more complicated/higher rates, but they can also have much more flexibile terms. Obviously, those advantages do not take the cost to zero (to be clear, no where close), but it may not cost as much as you think when you figure in tax savings.

Unless you really know what you are doing, get someone to help you, even if you think you know what your are going to buy.

2) Look at a bunch of places. Even if you love the place you are looking at now, look at some more. It will help you get a better feel for what you like/don't like, what you must have, want to have and must not have. I have been on a lot of places, but when I started looking at places from the perspective of this might be mine, I started noticing things that never really stood out to me before and seeing a variety of places helped me understand what was really important to me. You just start looking at things differently when it might be yours vs. just a lease.

3) If you have family and time with them is important to you, your family must LOVE the place too. I spend a lot of time on the ranch and I like being with my family, there has to be something there for my wife and daughter too. My son and I are more then happy being out there building fences, setting up feeders, walking the property. But the creek with the swimming hole attracts my daughter, a decent place to sleep makes my wife enjoy the place more. The final decision was a family decision, not just mine.

4) I would get a real estate lawyer to review all docs. It is really not that expensive and can avoid a nightmare if there are easement or access issues, mineral right issues. It is worth a few hundered dollars just to have a better sense of comfort that there are no surprises, and it is worth the cost of the ranch if the lawyer finds a big problem. I have been through legal issues on an easement associated with my house and trust me nobody wins, even if you win (I did), the cost,frustration, and the discomfort created with your neighbors (if they are involved) are not worth it.

5) Get a CPA or financial advisor and a lawyer (yea, I know that's two lawyers, but if the must exist use them to your advantage :-))who understands the financial impacts of buying property and setting up an agricultural business (if you are going to have livestock or lease grazing rights). Make sure you set this up right so that you do not lose tax benefits.

6) To directly answer one of your questions...Get insurance, it is very inexpensive and will help you sleep at night.

I am sure there is more, sorry this is so long, you just struck a cord with me as I just went through this and was surprised and frustrated by how little information is out there. I will also tell you that about six months into this, I absolutely love it. We use the property all the time, hunting, working, just being in the country it is all fun. I have a 10 yr old daughter and 11 yr old son, and this is just a great experience for them. We live in the city and I am really pleased that they are getting to experience a different way of life to some extent.

ttugmc, great post. thanks for all of your insight. this is a process I hope to experience soon.

You probably don't have anything to worry about. you'll probably be surprised about how close the appraisal comes into the selling price. Unless something is way off you should be fine. If it is way off, it is better that you find out up front.

Another thing you need to do is make sure you know who owns the property. In a lot of cases the land is in some kind of a trust or has several heirs with undivided interests. I say this because we leased 100 acres behind our place and then leased our farm and the 100 acres to a guy who worked the land. We cut three checks to the three owners. One day the family wanted to sell. We didnt buy it but and oil co. did and it turned out that there were 28 people that had an interest in the property. To avoid problems you need to have the abstract brought up to date. Abstracts show the ownership of the property going way back. When the abstract is updated then have an attorney review it to make sure everything is in order and you pay the right people.

Helomech, what is a veterans exemption?

I currently have a wildlife exemption and it seems to be no sweat. It just rolls from one year to the next. However, others have posted that they have to have annual plans that are big PITA's. I assume that each County can do what they want with their taxing authority. If I could change to some kind of veterans exemption, that wouldn't change (assuming again) from year to year.

The biggest factors on buying land are the ag exemption which you have to immediately continue or face huge taxes, NEIGHBORS, access, mineral rights, finances, etc.

If you're just looking for a place to hunt, leasing is usually a lot cheaper. I've often said that if I wasn't a landowner I could afford to hunt Africa and take guided fishing trips at the lakes of my choice.

Regarding land ownership, you will often hear that they aren't making anymore of it. They don't need to. There was a lot of it made in the beginning and it's still out there. And, right now, it's tough to sell. Not a lot of potential buyers have the credit rating, down payment or disposable income to buy anything used for recreational property.

If you are a disable veteran than you qualify, just bring your disabled veteran paperwork to the county tax office, and it is in addition to other exemptions. You don't have to pick one.

Looks like I may have a done deal. Just waiting on the final survey to split the property up so I can get my 65 acres. This is for recreational duck hunting land. 55 acres in bottom wetlands and 10 acres up top for a cabin later on. If you can qualify, rates and terms are really good right now.
Should be closing Dec. 1st.

Awesome, congrats to you. Hope everything goes smooth.

I just went through all this several months ago. What I learned:

I found a better rate and terms at a local bank than at the federal land bank (agcredit.com). Also was able to get a 15% down payment instead of 20, and the loan is fixed for 5 years and then re-negotiated. I used Jacksboro National Bank.
Insurance is not required without structures, but I took out a 1 million $ liability policy in case some yahoo sneaks in and hurts himself and tries to sue me. It's only about 130$ a year through Farm Bureau.
Electricity and water can be expensive. I'm in the situation someone mentioned above. I can pay 18k$ to run a line from the closest municipality, but that can't happen because they are at capacity. So it's water well time. Drilling a test well is 8$ per foot with a 70' minimum. That will be happening soon.
The AG exemption is worth it. My 115 acres is 180$ per year property taxes with it, 1800$ without it. If you lose an AG exemption, it can take 5 years to get it back according to the Appraisal District folks.
Talk to the locals before you buy. Nothing worse than finally finding a place you really want and then finding out they are getting ready to put in a motocross track next door (believe me, it happens).
You will hemorrhage money when you buy your own place, but it will be for YOU. No more worrying about losing the lease, etc.

have you tried getting a well witcher to find your ideal well location.

i know some dont believe in it, but i grew up watching my dad find water line after water line with a set of copper witches...

on my place, i walked around with the witcher for 30 minutes watching him do his thing. he marked spot after spot and then stopped the witching and went back and triangulated the two best spots where the water tables crossed or where the water source was strongest.

we drilled on that spot and got a nice flowing well out of it.
it was almost 300 feet down to get to water, but it has been a strong well so far.

that was only $200 for his services. he has since done around 10 other wells on the ranch with no "dry wells"

Hunter_Man,
I want to thank you for this thread and I want to thank everybody that has commented.
I have often wondered about every single issue brought up on this thread.
I will be creating a file just for this...
So, when the day comes...I'll have a good idea of the direction to go in.

Oh, one question...what are the qualifications for Ag exempt?

What type of closing costs do you hae to pay for this type deal? Just got my wife's support to buy land instead of leasing.

congrats texas_sooner! I got my wife's support a few months ago too so we are in the process of getting financially "ready" for this. We will need between $4000-$10,000 just for a down payment. Keep us posted on your progress, this will be a fun thread to watch!

Rates won't be great because of the risk associated with land loans that are not within a city's limits. Most Banks won't give more than 80% of the appraised value. From the Bank's point of view, if the loan defaults, what is their ability to collect the loan proceeds through liquidation of the collateral (the land).

thanks dr730. When I mentioned buying our own land, and she said she liked the idea, I spent half the work day looking through websites selling land. Funny how these things change spending priorities. I was looking at a new truck for next year, but now I'll gladly keep my paid off Silverado another few years.

I know exactly what you mean. I'm not even leasing this year in an effort to try to get to where we can actually do this. I'm gonna drive my silverado until the wheels fall off, and then fix it and keep driving it some more! AND, we are gonna stay in our little house instead of getting a bigger place. Priorities! LOL.

You got to have total buy in from the spouse becuase you think you spend a lot of time at the lease. Wait until you own the land and you just want to "go check on it". I took my wife around to see about 4 to 5 properties over the last 6 months. The only property she was happy with was the one that was only 45 minutes away from the house. It was great for me because this was also a place I have hunted for 4 years and know very well already.
The biggest hurdle for most people is the down payment. I'm not sure where the $4,000 to $10,000 came from as stated before you are going to need 20% of the appraised value (so hopefully the appraisal will be same or more as the purchase price). So if you are looking at a small peice of property for $100,000 (on the cheap end) you will need $20,000 just for the down payment. Your closing costs will be anywhere from $2,000 to $4,000.
I'm just very happy that God has given us the opportunity to do this without having to go into debt.

We're closing on Friday. I just built my feeders and have everything ready to go. I'm heading straight from the closing to the property to get everything going.

Process was actually really easy. We went under contract almost exactly 1 month ago.

Congrats cameron00. I be you're really anxious for Friday to get here. If it was me, I'd probably be too excited to sleep Thursday night

If you are building a single family permanent structure and they are a public water supply they can't legally decline service. They'll try....

well I have been looking at smaller places out of state around $30,000-$50,000 and was figuring a down payment of around 15%-20%. If I buy in Texas all that would probably go way up to about what you are talking about.

Sounds like you will have a great place pretty soon! Congrats.

Two of the best sites I've found are www.landsoftexas.com and www.texashuntingland.com

Just burned another morning on the interent looking for some land to buy.

TX_LT230FH, that first website is helpful. Thanks for posting.

happens all the time.... fun aint it!

Man, where I hunt the same listings on landsoftexas have been on there for over a year with new ones added at even higher prices. My old lease is in one of the pictures and it wasn't worth $1,000 total just to lease it. More land for sale than I have ever seen and no comps to support them since nothing has sold even close to what they are asking. And less money out there to buy with. Our own moderators land is down to $1,295 an acre and last year they would not go below $1,600. Times have changed.

Now this is funny! Texas hunting land has South African land for sale!

http://www.texashuntingland.com/Listings/2925SouthAfrica.htm

Well, Im dealing with a purchase right now. Not recreational funting land, but a 70 acre farm. Will be living there. MY loan fell through when they realized how much land was with it. Had a 30 year fixed locked in at 4.875%. But, apparently, no one will do a regular loan when so much land is involved.

So, now the best rate Ive found is a 5 year ARM at 6.5 % and 15% down on a 30 year note with no origination fee. Sure hate to do an adjustable mortgage but so far everyone has told me its impossible to do a fixed rate loan on a farm where most of the value is in the land. That mortgage is with City National Bank in Yantis.

I called several of the AG lenders and their rates where higher.

Anyone have any other suggestions? I can do a down of 20% on the purchase price of 180K. Have great cresit, and income to be approve on a larger loan. Would appreciate any help.

Is the reason they won't do that b/c they don't think current prices will even hold up? Too much risk on their part?

TXduckman,
The money is readily available, at least out this way it is. We have lenders contacting us LOOKING for loans to MAKE. They are local banks and Ag Lenders, but they are there. Terms aren't outrageous either. Of course, it could be because land is still quite a bit cheaper in most of this area than the rest of the state too.

Some good infor here, going to stick it.

Well, I have called a total of 20 banks and ag bank but the only one who comes close to the 6.5% 5 yr ARM is Legegacy Ag in sulphur springs and they offer the same 30yr loan in a 5 yr ARM at 6% but require an extra 5% down, and a $1000 loan fee. Think Ill be going with CNB in Yantis. I even called all the big AG banks around the state. Guess Ill just have to buy it now, and try and refinance within 5 years using my VA loan or something.

Nathan-I'm going with an AG bank becuase of the Co-Op aspect and being paid a dividend each year if the banks does well. I had to pay the origination fee ($1000) but will make that back with the dividends in no time. with similar rate as you are getting with a 5 year ARM on a 25 year note.
Adjustable is how the AG banks are able to be profitable. You can get a fixed rate but you will be looking at 8% or more.

Nathan, Please do not get an ARM. its like playing russian roulette with your life.

Better that you live in a shack, with a future.

than live in a shack becuase you lost everything.

With Obama, + whoever = gambling on the future.

Good advice if there was a real choice. When buying raw land that is how business is done now. Mostly because of AG banks that want to "guarantee" they will make money and not go out of business like some are doing now a days. These aren't regular ARMs that are suckering buyers into more loan than they can afford.

remember the 80's. 15% interest...

maybe you can split this thing up. House + some land. low interest fixed 30yr, low down payment.
the remaining land at 15yrs + max down.

No-Tox is right about these not being the type of ARM's meant to lure people in. The AG Lending institutions are more conservative, and didn't participate in that practice for the most part. The same can be said for many of the local banks that are still very strong.
Most of these 20 year Ammortized, 5 year fixed loans are capped somehwere in the mid to high 8's (at least the ones my clients have gotten lately).

Buy it with your IRA.

be careful and check w/ tax advisor. I'm not sure if the exemption is applicable in this case. Make sure of the tax implications before using a retirement acct. Unless you're over 59 1/2. then doesn't matter.

how important is it to try and get mineral rights these days, it seems that not many people want to give them up or they dont have rights with the sale

Its important IMO but good luck getting them with the crazy oil and gas market now.

Minerals just flat aren't owned by many current owners these days. You can find out who does own them and do your best to buy them out if you want, but they're not going to sell cheap typically.

Read my ad in land and leases. I am giving full minerals and there is a well ..That is the back 15 acres not the front .

I should rephrase that...

There are still plenty of places where you can get minerals on land, but those places are typically places where the likelihood of valuable minerals isn't high. Because anywhere that is a hot spot for oil & gas will have speculators making offers on mineral rights. If the owners turned down the speculators because they didn't want someone drilling on their land, but are now selling it, they will price the mineral rights into the price of the land.

People aren't stupid. Most of the places I've looked at and inquired as to mineral rights have been 1 of 3 answers:

1. Don't own the minerals - sold before current owners bought or current owners already sold.

2. Won't sell minerals or will sell minerals for an additional $40,000.

3. Sure, you can have the mineral rights. This isn't an area where natural gas or oil is drilled for.

Any idea on how water is considered? It may be the most important "mineral" ever!!!!

Some people even keep their water rights, wind rights are being kept in west texas. The most important thing to do is take your time,shop around and make sure your not buying more than you can afford. Don't become discouraged when something goes wrong. My wife and I have used the Texas Land Bank, and they have been great. You do have to have 20% down though, but we got our note for 30 yrs. I second and third the amount of time and money you will spend on your new property, but to me it is well worth having something to leave my kids. Property values only increase, it's the most stable investment anyone can make.

They don't increase when more land keeps popping up in this market. If you buy now, you better be ready to hold onto it for a LONG time.

Starting to be a buyers market if there are buyers. Land is down to $1,800 an acre in Montague on a place near us though it doesn't look that great. That is what it was going for 6 years ago. It was around $2,400+ I believe recently. Values only increase if someone pays the increase. Way too much out there to support the buying levels. We have had land for sale now going on 4 years near us and they won't drop the price... Makes no sense if they are actually serious. Still new properties are popping up for $3,000 an acre but you can lease for a heck of a lot less if you just want to hunt.

http://www.countryhomesoftexas.com/texas/index.cfm?detail=&inv_id=89737

A lot of people list land for sale under the "if the price is right" idealogy. They don't really want or need to sell, but will if they can a certain amount.

That amount is usually way above market value and the land doesn't sell and they don't care. You can tell who really needs to sell by their pricing.

If you look on "landsoftexas.com", close to 100% of the listings are very significantly higher than what the land actually trades at. I know that because I've been part of the buying process on 2 pieces I found there:

1 - 40 acres near Hallettsville. Ask: $196k Contract: $122k
2 - 40 acres near Caldwell. Ask: $178k Contract $128k

The ask is basically a suggestion. Many times it's way off.

I am a farm and ranch broker and I agree with cameron00 on his assessment. It is now a buyers market and most sales are 12% to 25% below list price. Some areas of the State are holding up well while others have really taken a hit. Overall sales prices are about where they were three years ago, more in some areas, less in others.

On insurance, you may want to carry liability, even if you have no improvements, etc. If someone (even a tresspasser) gets hurt on your land, you're liable.

It's not quite as simple as this. If you're found to have been contributorily negligent, you can be found partially liable.

Not just cut and dry "If a trespasser gets hurt on you're land, you have to pay them."

If your land has no improvements and isn't used for farming, you're likely already covered under your homeowner's policy. Check with your insurance agent.

The process is similar to buying a house, but expect to do a full income/ asset verification. As long as you haven't had mortgage lates, delinquint accts, no bk's or forclosures, you should be good. Rates will vary for non owner occupied/ vacant land, but with rates today, I would expect high 5's or low 6% range. Taxes for vacant land should be low/very minimal, insurance shouldn't be required as long as the lending institution does not require. Like most have stated, plan on putting 20-30% down financing no more than about 20 years, possibly less...definatly check with your local banks/ credit unions..most of your bigger banks will not do vacant land/ lot loans anymore..
The best advice I can provide::: Make sure you fully understand the terms (rate, fixed/adj, balloon or fully amortized, cost, rate/apr...Remember your signing your name to that note. Good luck!

We have our nearly 1500 acre place SW of Sonora for sale and this is the problem we are running into. No one loaning money out on land, or we would have already had it sold.

That's the type of faulty logic that created the Residential Mortgage Crisis/Bubble of the 2003-2008 time frame. The banks were underwriting 10%+ annual appreciation into their models, which was clearly unsustainable, and resulted in a huge bubble. I think land banks in Texas are clearly more conservative than that, and realize we may be in a time with 0% appreciation for the next 10 years or so (if you're lucky, it could be negative depending on this current recession!).

Good topic here by the way!

I went thru the texas veterans land board. It took about 4 months but it was worth it 5% down and thirty year note of 519.00 on 76 acres in west texas. Ive got nice bucks,turkey,quail,aoudad,hogs,dove,bobcats, and a mountain lion to boot. Tell you what its the best thing ive done with my 401k money. There is nothing like calling your place your own. Remember there not making land anymore, and it is only going to go up. I remember seeing 295.00 acred prices in land in sanderson texas now its going for a little over a grand. Just about everyone else is 20% down and no one will finance more than 20yrs. If your a veteran and you are interested my neighbor is selling his 55 acre tract for 1000.00 acre.

I can sell you land in sanderson/dryden area for $395/acre all day long....anyone interested?

Great post and a lot of good information. I recommend getting an agent that represents you that has vast experience in buying and selling land. Restriction, mineral rights, easements, water, electric, roads, power lines, neighbors and a lot more need to be considered. Buying land is very tricking and there can be possible hidden problems that are known or unknown to the seller. Just as a side note, I have learned that out in the country, good fences make good neighbors. Good luck.

The process is similar. However, typically the lender will require at least 25% down. This environment is not the best; however, lenders are (were) willing to lend out to 25 years. No, if there is no structure to insure, the lender typically will not require insurance. For small tracts, the seller may be willing to owner finance. In a year, no telling what interest rates will be. Unless there is some real banking/wall street reformn as the current adminstration seeks, things very well might be the same they are now in terms of credit availability - very poor. Under the deregulation policies, banks were allowed to go into much more lucrative businesses and they just are loaning money out these days.

buying land (as a place to hunt) is harder than buying a house. you either have to have enough money to buy a big enough place that what your neighbors do isn't a big deal. or you have to find a smaller tract that isn't already surrounded by other small tracts. it takes a while to locate the right place.

you do not have to carry insurance on it. you can, but it is not mandatory. the only reason you would carry insurance is for liability purposes if the property is leased or saw lots of hunting guests.

for financing, most traditional banks will not finance land for more than 15yrs. you need to look for a land bank. check with texas ag finance or capital farm credit. they will lend out to 30yrs.

we bought our place 3yrs ago now. it took us six years to line it up though. don't get in a hurry on it. do your homework on the places.

Erich

Land is tough to buy, I bought my ranch 5 years ago...at that time down payments were 20%,Now they are 30% so get ready to shell out some cash. As far as insurance I dont have any and its not required,as far as good interest rates, dont expect that any more, we have excellent credit,and own stores that we have paid close to a million dollars for, we get better interest on them than the land. A good land interest I would look to pay at least 8% now. My payments on 504 acres that I paid 650.00 an acre for and put 58000 down on, are 33,000 a year, I make bi-annual payments 16,500 twice a year.Things have changed in the last 5 years, money is harder to get, and land is higher, good luck !!!

Hi, I'm new here, but I have been saving and have a down payment for some land. I know not all or even many realtors do this, but I have to ask: For those of you who've bought land using a buyer's realtor, how do you know they have your best interest in mind since they get paid on commission? Finding a good rate is one thing, but the price is still a huge factor up front. I know when I bought my second house, I used a buyer's realtor and it made the seller's realtor very angry and was generally an unpleasant experience.

I'm looking to buy 100-150 acres to hunt in east Texas within the next year or so.

Also, are there any suggestions on factors to look for when judging deer population without the ability to spend a season scouting it first?

lots of cameras and corn piles and see what all is showing up. I went in blind hunting a new property a while back. I had been hunting on my lease and my g/f, now wife, said there was an old deer stand on the place she had just bought, we should go sit in it and just see what walks out. I gave her the go-ahead to pull the trigger on the first buck that stepped out..... a cpl weeks later we put cams out and I've been kickin' myself ever since for telling her to shoot that deer.

Thanks Rifleman.

I've never bought hunting land before, but my dad bought some rural land as an investment (he doesn't hunt) in East Texas and there were no deer signs at all (had a few hogs come through though).

Is it typical for a seller to allow you to go put out feeders or cameras? I wouldn't think they'd be too open to that.

I was assuming you meant judging the pop. after purchasing the place. I wouldn't think it would be too easy to get cameras on the place before hand.

What area are you looking to buy?

I have a pretty wide area I'm looking at. My family is all in Smith and Anderson county, so pretty much anything in that area (Tyler, Palestine, Jacksonville, Athens, etc.). Henderson County, Cherokee County, Anderson County... I'd imagine Smith county's not worth it with the higher population. Maybe a little further west, but not too much further west than that. One of the sights had some Neches River frontage that might be good for fishing or ducks, too, it was about $1,500 an acre, which seems more reasonable than other places I'd seen.

I'd hate to buy land and find out there hasn't been a deer there in 20 years. That would kind of ruin it for me. I live in Waco now, so something close to a 2-3 hour drive would be nice, especially since I can stay with them while I'm hunting.

have a cpl friends who have land between Alto & Rusk and they have some bruisers to hunt every year. If I remember correctly, I saw an oil company selling land around 800-1200/acre around New Summerfield.

Yeah, New Summerfield would definitely be in the area I'm interested in. Thanks for taking the time to give me your input.

your welcome.

Last question - is 100 or 150 acres worth it? It's a big price up front, but I've been saving money for almost 10 years now and I've hardly hunted at all because of work, so I'm a little rusty on deer hunting in general.

I'm guessing that it depends mostly on the specific tract of land... I mostly hear about these 1,000 acre leases, 10,000 acre leases, etc... can 100-150 acres be managed to produce good deer if it's a good tract of land (i.e. not 150 acres of cow pasture, next to a shopping mall, etc.).

sending you a pm.

Honestly, buying that amount of land with the intent to grown big deer is very, very hard. It has to be in a very good location that allows you to siphon deer off of a much larger tract of land. It certainly can be done, but remember location, location, location. If your sole purpose is deer hunting, get a lease If its to have an investment in the future, I think its a good idea (just bought 140 AC's myself). I was looking for the right place/price for about 2 years before pulling the trigger.

Thanks Kevin!

This has been a really informative thread! I hope to own a piece of Texas soil one day too.

We went through capital farm credit to finance the raw land.We have a 30 yr mortgage and had to put 20% down.Capital farm is usually 2% above prime unless they have changed. Most banks dont like to finance raw land or more than 15 acres, even with a house it. Usually if ag exempt in some way you will pay only a fraction of the taxes. You can look what the person paid the year before online or the realistate agent will tell you. But i will tell you the cheapest taxes is usually on tree production even cheaper than other types of ag.

Do these rates change if you purchase land with a small house on it? Say you purchase 50 acres with a little 1400 sq. foot home, wouldn't it then fall under a typical home loan with a better rate thus saving you money?

Interest rates are really low for people who are keeping cds in the bank. You may consider trying to buy the land on a land contract. I have worked on alot of these and they work really well if the seller does not need all the money up front. You can negotiate your down payment any where from ten to twenty percent down. Since a "CD" only pays one to three percent, sometimes the seller is happy to get 5 to 6 percent on there money. In short, the seller becomes your banker.

hey guys i need some help....im looking to buy some land somewhere close to dallas county and i found one in bowie county..does anybody know how the hunting is down there?any good sized bucks??

East Texas? Good luck unless it is big! Unless you want live on property, you better get something big like 1000+ acres or you better lease if you want to manage deer. When you can pay $9 an acre for somerhing worth $2,500 an acre, not a bad deal to lease... No guarantee it will go up and it hasn't in 8 years.

how about red river county..anybody know about the hunting there...and thanks txduckman.

Getting into land ownership is hard - Getting out might be harder. Owning can be relentless work and with limited results. At this stage of the game I don't think I would recommend it. Perhaps when you could count on values to rise it made more sense., But it isn't so today, in fact the land prices are falling in many areas. I get the "run your own place" thinking but you most definatly can lease cheaper. Yes, I'm trying to throw ice water on the idea as a favor to a wavoring future land owner. Just pay the lease fee and roll on brother.

might keep this in mind, the more improvements you build the more your taxes will be.

one thing to consider is...you own it, you are never broke.

Great thread. Alot of good info here. So, my brother and I are looking for a place between here and Oklahoma City - we have family there that would use the place. So far, we've considered several places in Texas and Oklahoma. My question is this: If I live in Dallas, and deer and turkey hunting are the most important thing to me, how far east can I go and still be pleased with the place? For example, there is a place in Titus County out by Mt. Pleasant. Are there any deer out there? Anyone know anything about the deer and Turkey in Atoka, OK? Thanks

Yes, there are deer in titus county. The hunting is so-so ;there may be a few turkey (eastern strain) more novelty than serious hunting population. Not to belabor the point but reread what I'm telling you about land ownership (reply above) Don't do it --- I'm your best buddy right now trying to save you from yourself.
As far as if you own it you are never broke --- uh, your always broke, taxes,repairs, that one more project to get it just right.

Thanks, olducker. I appreciate the insight. Regardless of lease or own, anyone else know how far east from Dallas I can go and still have a good place to Deer and Turkey hunt? Maybe I'm asking the wrong question. Put it this way: where is the best country between OKC and Dallas, to hunt deer and turkey (can go east or west a bit)?

YellowDog, I have owned several pieces of Texas and Okla, currently have a place in limestone county. Turkeys east of 1-35 in Texas are hit an miss, have a buddy with a place outside of Atoka that has turkeys but they are not over run with them. like olducker says there is always one more project to do.. but if you have family and friends there is no better place to bond than your own land. As far as being broke that has not happened to me, if you want it buy it, life is short and I have never seen a casket with a cash lock box in it.....

I have now owned my property for about a year now and am loving it. Is it costing me more than a lease, YES. But it is also nice to know that I'm the owner and any improvements I do on the property is mine. I don't have to worry about leases being pulled out from under me or dealing with others. Mine is only 65 acres, but my main hunting is ducks so the 50 acres of wetlands is what I wanted.
The one thing you want to keep in mind is try to get something within reasonable driving distance if you have a family. Trying to mix in family time and working on the property is hard if you are driving more time than spending on the land.
Money isn't going to get any cheaper to borrow than it is now. Most land is at the lowest you are going to find it. So if you have the means to do it now, I say go for it.
YellowDog31 - Try to get something east of I-35 around the Red River, either side of it.

Some have suggested using qualified money (i.e. inside a retirement plan) to purchase real estate. While I am not providing specific tax advice, I would caution that personal use of that land could cause the entire basis (purchase price) or a portion thereof to be a deemed distribution. Additionally, placing debt on property purchased with qualified money can cause issues as well. It can possibly be done but I would suggest using one of the companies that specialize in that area.

Another suggestion is to not just get a real estate broker but get a broker with experience in ranch sales. There is a big difference. A farm/ranch broker can evaluate the value of standing grass and timber. This can help you determine what food sources are available. Do the same when you get the appraisal. A farm/ranch bank will know this but a standard bank may send out your standard residential appraiser. Usually the bank drives the choice but you can make sure you are getting someone that knows ranch land.

You can also consider buying a place that has adjacent crop land. You can lease the crop land to help defer the carrying costs. This type of set up COULD (consult your tax advisor) allow you to deduct some of the carrying costs. Consult a tax advisor experienced in farm/ranch as they can give you more insight than someone with less experience.

If you own land that is not your primary residence and want to sell it for better land, consider a tax free exchange, specially if you have a gain on it I.R.C Section 1031. There are different ways to do this and you need to plan this IN ADVANCE.

If you don't turn it into a farm/ranch property have your tax professional consider attaching an election to your return to capitalize carrying costs. This can add usually non-deductible expenses to the basis (cost) of the property so when you do sell it you will have less taxable gain.

If you don't have the mineral rights, consider the likelyhood that someone may want access to those minerals someday. With some restrictions, you cannot block access to the minerals. This means if you own the surface rights and they want to drill on your property, you may not have a lot of say, but you can and will get reimbursed for damages.

Consider the environmental aspects. If you buy land in certain areas and it is determined that those areas have habitat conducive to endangered species, you may lose your ability to hunt the property. Not likely to happen but it needs to be considered. Under the current legal framework, if you discover endangered species on your property you are held hostage, not rewarded, which is why SSS seems to be the standard operating procedure. Bassackwards incentive but that is what you get with congress.

Once you start to own land, specially if it is out of state, update your will and if you have little ones I would suggest a trust be created. Talk to a lawyer, I'm not one but I play one TV.

Just my 175/hr suggestions but free for all of you who keep our hunting traditions alive.

Last bit of advice. Talk to your attorney and tax professional. Don't assume anything is chisled in stone.

Great posts and information from all.

Some more FYI I thought Id pass on.

I just got off the phone with Heritage land bank. He said my wife has to be on the loan app. Which is a deal killer because we just got married and her credit has some bruises from a few years back.

Also on the down payment, most banks are just looking for equity to start, not necc money out of you pocket. If you buy land for 1500 and acre and it appraises for 21-2200 an acre you wont have to come out of pocket almost anything

If you have a sizeable nest egg and you don't need at retirement, the qualified money ie (ira) is a good avenue. Just be careful, no personnel use. All money made on leasing off ag or hunting rights have to go back in ira capsule. Take out an acre or two for your home. Get a professional company to handle for you and pay a small maintenance fee per year. Entrust in Houston Tx. is such a company for self directed investments.If you buy now and land goes up, you will pay apprasial price (which could be exorbitant) when you decide to start removing it back out of ira. But I would check with a pro. My 2 cents.

Great post....Hopefully getting ready to take the plunge in Montague county or Leon County. Budget is $200,000...25% down....

If there are no structures your Home Insurance/Liability will cover it. Depending on who as access to your land and what you do with it...you will want to consider raising your liability coverage

Anyone have experience with using the Texas Land board route for a loan?

Everyone. I'm new to this forum and am amazed at how much info is freely shared between all of you. I, myself, have been looking to buy some acreage and this info has been very informative. Thanks!

I really wish my wife and I could purchase some land for my boys to grow up with. Problem is that saving 20% is dang near impossible for us. May take years to do that. And I make good money. When we bought our house I was able to get in it on a 15 year note at 0% down. My credit score is in the High 700s. Has anyone ever heard of anyone getting a loan at 0% down?

most banks won't touch it, but not sure exactly of what requirements they have to go by.

I have seen owner financed places for 10 percent down. I talked to a few local banks that will do 15 percent down. If you qualify for Texas vets they have a low down plan. Good luck.

Did you ever get any feedback? Several people on here used that avenue including myself. I bought 11 acres this year smack in the middle of 1000 wooded acres. Got a 30 year fixed with 7% down and 7% interest. Life is good, as I have many critters that funnel through my property. Hope you had some good luck. the process seemed long to me but not much longer then buying my house. either way a good deal.

Chief
Is that a bobcat or lynx pic?
We use to see both on our East Texas land but mostly fox now.

I've been looking too..thinking about a property that is nothing but swamp, but it will do exactly what I am wanting and that is a waterfowl property......I've been looking at it for about a year. It has $27k in harvestable timber and if I can buy it, I was thinking about putting it in some sort of conservation program as well and it is big enough that I could probably lease part of it out to guides and waterfowl hunters.. I can do almost any down payment but I'd like to at least have a 20 year note. Also, my wife and I are talking about buying a foreclosed home in the town my son is attending college as well to help out on expenses of college. We plan to buy something 3/2 or better bed/bath, and put him in one bedroom and rent the other two or more out to other students, basically paying for his housing and maybe even make a little profit. If this works out we will buy more houses to rent to students by the bedroom..... The catch 22 to the whole thing is I need for one property purchase to facilitate the other. In other words I'd like to walk away from closing on one deal with enough money to pull off the other purchase. It's a long shot I figure but if I have to choose between the two purchases I'll go with the house first. I figure that will eventually create an opportunity to buy a recreational property if we keep at it.

What kind of financing is being done on higher priced farm or ranch lands, say in excess of $450,000. The tpical 20% DP is a hefty figure, as well as conventional mortgages of 25-30 years. Are "balloon notes" still being done on the higher priced properties?

The smaller 300 to 500 acres farm/ranch at $1000 to $1500 per acre are fairly common, but who is doing fincancing for these type places?

these guys can probably answer all your questions:

http://www.capitalfarmcredit.com/

Thanks, I'll give them a call too. They are just up the road from Texas Land Bank here in Waco.

Okay, ya'll...I'm sure you've had this question already, but I'm really really curious. I'm currently Active Duty Army and am here in Afghanistan. I've really thought about buying a tract of land to go hunting on and also to someday pass on to my daughter.

The issue is that I don't have a huge nestegg to pay a 20 or 10 percent down payment. Does anyone know of any programs out there that will allow me to buy for 0% down or somewhere close to that? I've bought a house with VA help, but it seems the land situation is quite a bit difficult. Thanks for any info anyone can provide.

Art

Art: Check out the Texas Veterans Land board. they provide low interest loans to vets for buying land, and only require 5% down.

http://www.glo.texas.gov/vlb/index.html

Thanks for your service, and Godspeed.

Thanks JJH. I appreciate the info!

I sell land for hunting as aprofession. i wont try to push anything on anyone but if youd like my number ask me and i will give it to you. The Texas Vet Loan has a current down 5% but is a layered loan. The first 20k is at a low rate. The next layers are also 20K until you reach a max of 80k and they are at market rate. There are banks depending on where you buy that require less than 20% down but its usually no less than 15%. 20% down is the standard. The few exceptions are owner financed property.
Hope that helps.

Yes this sounds about like the best deal available. I am also lookin gfor property at the moment and am using Tx ag loans. They have different regional offices all over the state. They also pay Dividends on there loans. about 7 to 7.7 for 20 years with 20% down is normal. Cant get out of the down payment unless you are buying ADJOYING land. If this is the cae you can put up your own property as a down payment. The shorter the term loan 5 yrs 7 yr 10 yr. The better the interest rate.

I see a lot of people on here looking for property. I want to know if people are being realistic in the fact that a monthly payment of this size is very large. Dont get in over your head and put a strain on yourself and your family.

yes buying land is for those in the position to do so and to have an investment that pays off down the road. Leasing is much less expensive and thats the thing stay within budget as you said

There are new loan programs out there. I own a company that sells ranches. If you have any other questions feel free to email me at justin@texasselectproperty.com Be happy to help. Just sold a ranch in Freer with 10 percent down

I own a company that sells ranches. There are new programs out there. Just sold a ranch in Freer with 10 percent down. If you have any other questions feel free to email me justin@texasselectproperty.com
Be happy to help

Check with a company Called Farm Credit Services. I have a land loan with them for 20yrs at 5.8% Closed this loan last yr and had to put 20% down. I am not sure what they have in TX as our land was in IL.

Selling land it what my company specializes in and most of this thread is very true. Both Texas land bank and capital farm pay dividends. Both are going to require 20% down but the rates can vary depending on how you structure the loan. I can tell you that it is getting much harder to purchase land than a home. But there are other options available, like splitting between owner financing and a bank loan. I would suggest to anyone that they take every possible tax exemption they can and make sure to check out what exemptions the property has before purchasing it. Some exemptions around here can take records from up to five years to get the exemptions. If you have any questions about purchasing land feel free to PM me or give me a call. Im never to busy to talk to a fellow hunter!! Trey 254-715-5671

Lots of good info above,I also am a realtor that specializes in land transactions.One thing I will say is just because you have endangered species on your land DOES NOT mean you can't hunt it.We own 3 places in hill country and 1 in North central Texas and all of them are considered Golden-cheeked warbler habitat,no problem at all.

Don't shoot Golden-cheeked warblers or black capped vireo's and you'll be fine.

Call Bobby Priestly in Lcokhart Tx at first lockhart national bank. He got me a very nice deal on a ranch loan.

I didn't know about the Wildlife exemption when my Ag exemption went away. Can anyone recommend a company to get the process started for Wildlife Exemption?
I called one and they wanted $5,000.00 in attoreny fees alone!

Thanks
Robert

Correct Erathkid, but there are instances of land owners being limited in the use of their land due to the presence of endangered species. Habitat conducive to an endangered species is not the criteria. Presence of the endangered species is. For instance, I looked at a piece of property in Somervell county that did not have black cap virios (sp?) on it but did have that certain tree that they nest, live and exist off of. While there were no current restrictions to using that property, if they were discovered to be present, it could have prohibited me from doing any activty that would harm or harass them, including firing a weapon. I'm not saying you should not purchase land that has habitat conducive to an endangered species but it should be considered.

Gotcha.They nest in chest high scrub oak's,lacy,vacy oaks.Black capped vireo's,what black capped vireos?

Talk with your real estate agent but I think you need to find a piece of property with the agricultural exemption in place at the time you purchase it for tax purposes. Most Texas counties require 5 years of running livestock before you can establish the exemption if it is not in place when you purchase the land. The agricultural exemption is not technically an exemption. It is an assessment valuation based on agrucultural use. Landowners may apply for special appraisal based on their land's productivity value rather than market value. Typically, a productivity value is lower than market value, which lowers property taxes. Landowners must use their land in agriculture. There is a rollback tax for taking such land out of its productivity use.

Property owners may qualify for agricultural appraisal if land meets the following criteria:


The land must be devoted principally to agricultural use. Agricultural use includes producing crops, livestock, poultry, fish, or cover crops. It also can include leaving the land idle for a government program or for normal crop or livestock rotation. Land used for raising certain exotic animals (including exotic birds) to produce human food or other items of commercial value qualifies.


Using land for wildlife management is an agricultural use, if such land was previously qualified open-space land and is actively used for wildlife management. Wildlife management land must be used in at least three of seven specific ways to propagate a breeding population of wild animals for human use.


Agricultural land must be devoted to production at a level of intensity that is common in the local area.


The land must have been devoted to agricultural production for at least five of the past seven years. However, land within the city limits must have been devoted continuously for the preceding five years, unless the land did not receive substantially equal city services as other properties in the city.

If land receiving an agricultural appraisal changes to a non-agricultural use, the property owner who changes the use will owe a rollback tax. The rollback tax is due for each of the previous five years in which the land received the lower appraisal. The rollback tax is the difference between the taxes paid on the land's agricultural value and the taxes paid if the land had been taxed on its higher market value. Plus, the owner pays 7 percent interest for each year from the date that the taxes would have been due.

See link below for wildlife exemption:

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/landwater/land/private/agricultural_land/


Hopes this helps

Junction guy,great post and welcome.

Here are some general tips on how to buy land article. http://www.thelandblog.com/2008/10/land-buying-information-and-tips.html

Great thread! I've got land fever right now, and I'm trying to better educate myself on the subject before I rush out and make a bad decision.

I'm not even 1/4 the way through this book (link below), and it is already worth every penny I paid for it.

If you are wanting the in's and out's and the do's and dont's of buying land, and every other aspect often overlooked (like water wells and the due diligence involved, which is the chapter I'm currently on), this book is for you. Written by a real estate attorney who has owned rural properties for four decades and helped countless clients with their real estate transactions. This book is the fourth edition.

http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Buying-You...0447&sr=8-1

Place the land in a seperate trust from your other assets. If anything were to happen on your property and somebody sued you, they could not tap into other assetts that were not in that trust.

just my .02

Finding the right land is very time consuming and buying land is a big commitment. Most people do not realize the 'carrying" costs and fail to factor them in prior to purchasing.

IMO the banks with their tighter lending policies are inadvertently doing most people a favor by making them prove their commitment by coming up with a hefty down payment.

Simply put,do not make the commitment until:1)you know you are able and are not just fooling yourself and 2)you are willing to forego other things you could do with the money spent servicing a land note. And make sure what you buy fits your needs. Worst thing ever is being financially bound to a piece of property you don't want.

Having said all that, I got extremely lucky and was able to buy some property that suited me to a "T". It was a big commitment but I have enjoyed having it more than anything I have ever owned. There is absolutely no substitute for knowing the land you are walking on belongs to you and all that comes with that.

Good luck to all you guys thinking about making the plunge!

I have bought and sold land and timber for a living since 1992 and worked as a petroleum landman for the last 6. Those are my credentials, here is my advice:

1) I agree with those who suggested Texas Land Bank. Its been my experience that the "land banks", "farm banks" and "ag banks" give the best rates, longest terms and lowest down payments. Shop around!

2) Get an ag or timber exemption to pay the least amount of taxes (I am not familiar with the "wildlife exemption"). The tax assessor/collector will be glad to provide the information you need for exemptions. All of the exemptions have some "requirements" but most are not difficult and none require you to spend massive amounts of cash to fill the requirements. I, or any other forester, can write you a timber plan sufficient for tax purposes in 20 minutes.

3) No insurance on the "dirt". You can buy insurance on any crops, including timber, growing on property, but its EXPENSIVE!

4) see next post - this is getting long

4) Mineral rights may or may not be included. Most title companies, which you will use for closing if you borrow the funds, will NOT provide any information on mineral rights. These will have to be searched in the county records. (PM me for more info on this - massive amount of information)

5) Title insurance - you will also pay for this at closing if you borrow the money. The title company will also check for liens, back taxes, judgements, etc. that encumber the property.

6) DON'T SIGN ANYTHING IF YOU ARE NOT SURE!! Again, DONT SIGN ANYTHING IF YOU ARE NOT SURE!

good luck!

Last advice, buy land with road frontage. County road, city street, farm to market highway, etc - it doesnt matter. Easements (the right to travel across someone elses property) are ALWAYS a problem! (well not always, but I advoid them if at all possible)

PM me if you have more questions - I keep thinking of things to post ha


good luck

My grandmother has been letting me hunt on a 360 acre parcel of unimproved land she owns for free. She is 91 and may not be with us much longer. She suggested I purchase the land before she dies and it goes to probate in her will to be devided among the 3 daughters.

Based on reading all 7 pages, I do not want to attempt to have a bank finance the property. My mother suggested an "owner finance". My grandma and I would figure out the sale price and payments. The payments would just go into her estate to be distributed amongst the heirs. I can afford the property, but dont want to deal with the hastle of bank financing.


I have never heard of this. Is this a common practice for intra-family land sells? And what else do I need to know (specific to the owner finance)?

be glad you have a grandma that is willing to do that!

i would set up an escrow account to be deposited directly quarterly that pays out to her estate.

you can buy the property owner finance, get with a good title company and have a real estate lawyer draft up a contract.

they will handle all the paperwork.

You have to have Ag Exemption in place in order to get a wildlife exemption.

Agree with texastrophy85 on the grandma deal.

Once you've signed the contract allowing owner finance of the land with your grandma, the terms cannot be altered by her estate.

Get that taken care of asap. If you wait much longer, her direct heirs could probably successfully argue that the contract was signed when she wasn't in right mind to enter into a legally binding contract (the elderly are often taken advantage of, even by their own families).

I have done conversion of ag to wildlife and it really is pretty simple.

agree 100%

do this right now if you haven't done it already

As a new land owner myself there is a lot of good information in this thread. One thing I would recommend is not just looking at the price per acre, but the improvements to the property such as house, water, electric, fence line, cleared timber and tanks or lakes. Dozer work generally runs 75 to 100 per hour and a large lake cost big $$. You will also need to consider the cost to maintain the property and tractors are not free. After you purchase your place you will drive by other ranches and appreciate nice fences and beautiful pastures

Im looking at buying land right now. My hometown bank is offering 6.4% 15yr , but refinance after 7yrs. Is that bad? It was 6% two months ago, just wish i would have found something months ago.

Just found this forum and this thread and had to reply. There is some really good information posted here. I'm a certified wildlife biologist and real estate broker. I just recently started a new blog dedicated to wildlife management and hunting properties. This forum has given me some great ideas for future articles. Below are a few blog post that I hope may be informative. Please feel free to PM, email, or give me a call.

http://erwildlifeme.wordpress.com/2012/0...a-prerequisite/

http://erwildlifeme.wordpress.com/2012/0...rty-should-ask/

http://erwildlifeme.wordpress.com/2012/0...ing-properties/

http://www.wildlifeme.com
http://erwildlifeme.wordpress.com
eritter@wildlifeme.com

I used Capital Farm Credit...they were great...financing similar to a house...

If you are going to have people out to hunt, 4 wheel, etc. get an umbrella liability policy.

Best advice I can give you: if the property doesn't have water and electricity find out what it will cost to get both. They can be a huge cost.

Check out www.whitetailproperties.com for all your hunting and ranch land needs!

Our Land Specialists are hand selected based upon their individual expertise within the real-estate, hunting land management, and farming trades. They share a passion for the outdoors and have a firm understanding of how to show hunting and ranch land while explaining the benefits of land ownership.

Hey bud, If you find the right property you might not even need to get a big loan. I work for Mossy Oak Properties of Texas and I am constantly running into little stuff that is already Ag Exempt. If you are willing to go smaller like under 100 Ac you might be able to buy something for under a 100K. it seems that everyone got hung up on the financing but for the most part it is very similar to buying a house. However, do not have the real-estate agent that helped you buy your house help you buy a ranch. That is my biggest tip, a home Realtor can seriously muck up a farm and ranch deal.

Also, do what Ekdahl said and go to a bank that specializes in rural real-estate. They are Way more helpful.

Having just purchased 100+ acres recently, my advice is to offer considerably less than the asking price. I was very surprised to close my deal for 75% of the original asking price, on what already looked like a very good deal. The guy was just ready to sell it after no offers for a relatively long time.

So, I am thinking of buying some hunting land in my name and then leasing half of it back to my company(I own it) for hunting. My question is, can I take money out of my retirement for a down payment? If it has a house on it wouldn't it be considered a second home and therefore I would not have to pay a penalty on the money coming out of my retirement? Does anyone know the answer? I plan on meeting with my CPA about it also. I need to do this before the land prices start going up again. Thanks for any info.

I would suggest you to consult a Realtor in your area. He will help you throughout the land buying process.

Wow this thread is almost 3 yrs old

FWIW I bought my place by looking up the owner on the tax rolls

He lived out of town and we worked out a deal between us with no real estate agent
it was nice just dealing direct with out the agent being a go berween
we mutually picked a lawyer to do the close and I covered myself by making him by a deed policy and I got a survey and appraisal

Good info. I am not a vet but my dad is. He loves the vet loans bc you can get a 30yr fixed note on land. Owner financing is another great way to go if the documents are drawn up properly.

My wife and I are looking into buying some land in south texas, in the near future. We are new to buying land for hunting, so my questions are is there any cons with owner financing than going through a bank? What's the lowest offer should I begin with on a ranch for example, a ranch that is for sale at 170,000? And how motivated are ranch sellers?

Awesome thread! Trying to establish my knowledge base so I can buy smart in near future. Thanks for great insight!

I got tired of trying to find deer leases..getting screwed on the cost etc so I recently bought my own 40 acre hunting property.its not huge but 75% hardwood and cedar and has never been touched. 100s of surrounding acreage untouched as well. I was surprised that the landowner was willing to do owner finance with the right amount down.very easy transaction and I'm excited at never having to look for a place to hunt. good luck to you future land owners.

A question regarding the Ag exemption, tax rollback: Let's say someone bought land a few years ago having the Ag exemption and suddenly decided he was going to turn his property away from crops and cattle and into a paintball Extravaganza :-D Anyway, he contacts the appraisal office and indicates the land would no longer be used for agriculture. As soon as the land appraisal status is changed, would the land owner be liable for the rollback of the few years, even though the land had legitimately been used for agriculture previously? The piece I read was a bit confusing to me in the wording. Thanks....

I think it's pretty clear in the information on the Texas Comptroller's website. If the property use is changed from agriculture to non ag use, you will lose the AG valuation exemption. When that happens, you pay the rollback tax for the previous 5 years. The rollback is the difference between the taxes that were paid, and what would have been paid without the exemption each year. They also tack on 7% interest per year for the taxes that would have been paid.

You might want to consider only changing a small part of the property to Non-AG use, unless the roll back taxes are pretty small.

If you are buying land and paying cash what all closing costs would be involved besides broker fees,title ins., survey fee. Im sure there is a nickel anddime list of fees? As a buyer what all would you try to push off on seller?

who pays the closing costs are negotiable.

typcially the seller pays his poriton and the buyer pays his. seller typically pays for the title policy.

and your right, there is a nickle and dime list of fees. they will be described in your HUD statement

Let the cows stay.... would just be extra cover for the paintballers....

Since the tax office is closed for the day anybody have any info on how much acreage in collin county to qualify for ag? I was thinking 10 acres unless you have a home on property then its 11. Just curious and couldnt find on website and im sure i want get a call back till next week.

Texas land prices and ROI over time factored for inflation.

http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/rland/

That's a neat site.

Recently purchased 26 acres in east texas. Mostly hills and valleys all wooded with thick underbrush.

Problem is even with the boundary survey, I can't tell where the property lines are. All the corners are marked but the surveyor didn't make cut throughs or put stakes in between the points.

The property is somewhat shaped like a triangle with one side being 2227' long! How can I accurately establish lines between the points?

Thanks!

Ok let me warn you about another issue. I have land I purchased about 14yrs ago. I made improvements cabin lake etc. I am now being sued by some people claiming my title is not good. This land was purchased from the president of the county realty board. It was a tract out of a 5700acre ranch he owned. I used a reputable and local title company and received a survey. If I lose this lawsuit I will be paid what I paid for the property from the title insurance company. There will be no repayment for the improvements. The plaintiffs have no real assets so counter suing is useless. I can not sell my land until I settle the suit. It is a year since their filing and I still do not know what their basis of claim is. I am having to pay a lawyer out of my pocket because the title co. lawyers may chose to just pay me and be done if it is cheaper.
Anybody with 200 dollars can jack you up forever,,,, don't do it.. don't buy property
Oh by the way the guy I bought it from is dead and the title company is out of business

Wait a second...you have title insurance and you're still going through this? Unreal.

When you loss the case its mean they will pay you the amount that is shown on your ownership document and they don't pay any amount of money for improvement.And some time they don't pay more than the value that written on that agreement.

Sorry to hear that , Edward. It's very rare for something like that to occur, thank God. Your title policy should cover the amount you paid for the property. Even if the title company is gone, the policy is underwritten by a large insurer. If you have a loan on the property, the lender will most likely get involved to protect their asset as well.

The best way is to have the surveyor come back out and set stakes for you.

Surveyor/ set stakes??? it was surveyed originally. The suit is for a portion of the land. Aproximately 102 acres (refered to in veras spanish land grant term) out of 300. As stated I still don't know where on the parcel they contest the title. Right,, I have a title policy and it will pay what I paid for the land 14yrs ago with out improvements. Never mind the appreciation. I will also take it in the teeth if the land is split in two making the separated parcels worth less. I followed the rules of correct land purchase and still getting the shaft. There is no lender. I paid cash. There is no justice I bought land...

nice thread, wish I had read it 15 years ago when I retired. remember one other thing, if you don't own the mineral rights you don't own anything but the right to pay taxes. one of the worst rip offs our politicians ever put on us, letting surface and mineral rights be seperated.

agree with ken

Well......I know this thread is old but I found it very helpful in my research. I will finalize the paper work within a couple of weeks.

Here is what I learned during my purchase.

1. Land purchasing is way easier than buying a house. I didn't need a contract or any BS, we agreed on terms and shook hands.
2. Only use a realtor if that's your preference. You can find plenty of info by internet research and getting neighboring contacts from the land owner. Or go to the local coffee shop a few times and make conversation.
3. Any land that is advertised on a website, realtor, etc.... needs more detailed research. The land I purchased was only advertised by word of mouth. If a person is wanting to sell their place, they will tell people they know first. I found that, if land is listed, there is a reason why it hasn't sold yet.
4. Check the land around you for future buying availability. I will eventually have a chance to buy the land that surrounds my place, as three of the land owners are elderly. Because of the down payment, I have established equity. If I want to purchase that land, all the lender has to do is adjust the note/terms. Simple.
5. Deal with a farm lender co-op. Their specialty is land lending and they are the best at it. They offer the best rates and can close faster than a bank. I reached out to 4 banks, only one came close. Gave me the impression they really didn't want to mess with it. Plus I will get dividends within a couple of years.

Wow, great thread and good timing...looking in to buying land myself. Thanks to all for sharing knowledge!

Heather Johnson w/ keller-Williams reality
817-891-4089

I have some serious questions about buying land. We have located a small parcel that we can afford, but we are getting a little skeptical on some of the terms.

1. Survey - seller is not providing. Should this typically be a cost born by the buyer?

2. Mineral rights - not coming with the land. The land is ~7k an acre around Sam Houston. When looking at HAR for acreage in the same quantity and general features, it seems comparable. But none indicate they come with minerals. Does it sound right to not receive mineral rights at that price point?

3. 100 year flood zone. How do I find out if the land, or parts of it are in the zone. Went to the fema.gov site and it seems like a worthless site. Why is there not a feature in like google maps that just shows the flood zones? They can map and photograph the US roads, but not show us something as critical as if it has a high/low probability of flooding? I would like to see the flood zone before actually putting my hard earned money on the line.

Pm me and I will be happy to answer your questions

I'll go ahead and answer your questions here

first off, Seller should have a survey. he might have one that is outdated, but he should have one. If it is not available, one will have to be provided to the title company. it may be outdated and not acceptable to the lender so it may have to be re-surveyed anyway. in most cases, the seller provides a survey but this is a negotiable option. cost of survey will depend on the size of the tract.

Mineral rights: Are they retaining what they own and how much is believed to be owned? if they don't own any they can't convey what they don't own. Without seeing the size of the tract its hard to say whether or not the tract is priced fairly without minerals. Comparable sales will be key in seeing if its being bought in line with the current market. Is there any production in the immediate area? if not, its hard to place a value on non-producing minerals

100 year flood plain. some counties have FEMA maps, some do not. any parts of the property located in the flood zone should show up on a new survey. FEMA has an online program that shows the location of the floodplain, you should be able to find that out online. I have used it in the past. The county courthouse may also be able to provide some help in that area

http://heatherjclay.kwrealty.com/
My realtor, she can answer any qeustions you have, and has a great lender cloes them fast as 2weeks

I hate spammers.

This has been a very informative thread and you come and spam it, like you have done any number of other threads here.

Is your sole purpose to come here and spam the board with this agent's website?

Sorry to offend anybody, New member here...and was just trying to help...as most realtors can only work certain areas in there MLS regions...I was extremely stoked when she went out of her way for my little peice of Heaven... 149acres Bosque county...drove every back road helping me find right spot, she actually cut her commission to lower the price so i could get approved! Not many agents do this...Least i could do is refer her out!
I guess i Thought we was here to help eachother out....

My first "land buyer" was an oilman from Houston. Picked him up off a call on a ranch listing I had in La Grange. I traveled all over Texas for this buyer. I showed him and his wife probably 50 ranches. They were so unrealistic with their expectations, despite hours of meetings, phone calls with them explaining market data, demand, supply, real estate economics ,etc...and he was no dummy. Just a cheap [censored]. I managed to make 3 offers on their behalf; 2 fell through because the sellers lied about mineral rights or other issues and there were major conflicts I uncovered for them through my own due diligence. The other one, the sellers broker and I offered to eat a percent of our commissions to try to get a deal done. They hemmed and hawed and backed out under option because they got cold feet.

After 8 months of my devotion, time away from my family, driving from Sutton down to Webb up to Montgomery counties and all points in between, these people ended up writing a check for a FSBO they found in Kerr County that their friend told them about.

The moral to the story:

1) Not all realtors are lazy and greedy. A lot of them will go above and beyond to help their clients and a good land agent can save even savvy buyers time, money, and potential heartache .
2) At the end of the day, buyers and sellers are going to do whatever they have to do to get the best deal.

Buyer, seller and Agent beware.

I am NOT a realtor but a forester and a landman. Over the last 22 years, I have bought/sold/leased thousands of acres of land, timber, timberland, ranchland, royalties and minerals. I can answer your questions about buying land, leasing minerals, leasing land, selling land, etc.

But I cant keep up with all the questions - PM me and I will be glad to answer any questions you may have - no strings attached ... unless you have a bass lake I can fish in!!!

Glad to see I'm not the only landman on here!

We own a surveying company- And while I can't speak for every surveyor I can help explain some things msot might not understand with their first land purchase- you can PM me to if need be- no strings-

Why is it better to have road frontage?

It gives you direct access to your property. If you are relying on an easement, you may have to go to court to enforce it. Might also turn out that the easement isn't valid, didn't transfer with the land, expires, has use restrictions (like no utilities) or whatever else. And you can't always rely on the land owners the easement is on being cooperative even if you talk with them in advance. They might die or decide they want your land and not giving you access to it is a good way to get you to sell cheap.

I would also say that if you are looking at land that has easement access, it should be deeply discounted relative to general price in the area.

Great Post

Very helpful thread....haven't read all pages so this may be a repeat...land I found has an old 'fixer upper' that I may just tear down....would that qualify for a home loan vs. land? Thank you.

do you all know of any land near dallas looking for 50 to 100 acres

PM me. I can call you and we can talk... I would like to help you if I can.

Does a wildlife exemption regulate what you can do with the land? I am from Montana and if you register for the Wildlife exemption there you cannot build on the land that is qualified and you need to return any of it to original state if there are building or other improvements on it. How does it work inn Texas?

Good thread here with lots of helpful info...now to just find a small 100 acre piece of property within about 2 hours of San Antonio

You can build on it. Just need to get with the county appraiser to okay anything you do first so it doesn't change the plan originally setup. The main thing is the land must have been under an ag or timber exemption for 5 of the last 7 years prior to converting to wildlife exemption. One good thing about cows is they reduce fuel for wildfires.

I didn't read this whole thread obviously but why does the Texas Land Board say it only requires you to put 5% down but everyone on here is saying 20% and higher?

I assume you meant Tx VLB = Texas Veterans Land Board.
The "TX land board" is a veterans program, the only way non vets /general public can buy through them is their forfeited tracts.

Less down = higher monthly payments & greater lender risk.

Conventional financing through most lenders will require 20% down unless the property is being sold considerably below market/appraised value, or you have a fairly long history with the lender.

Vets don't have to put as much down and get a lower interest rate.

I have 425 acres for sale in Crockett County, above the Pecos River canyon. This place has electicity installed, 30x54 pole barn, water, and is ag exempt. Great hunting. dssewell425@msn.com

We have a Wildlife exception on our place 90 acres taxes around $140 year. Takes everything said in previous threads posts. The other side is we spend a good chunk of money out for things to meet the Wildlife plan. IE: feed, feeders, water, nest boxes etc.. Plus all the logging and record keeping. Some counties are tougher to get one approved also. Edwards for us was a 2 year run and gun battle of bureaucratic paper work and reviews, but in the end we did get it. I am over simplifying the process here but, basically you have a pretty good size list of Wildlife Practices that you have to select three off and implement on your place. Another FYI: maintain good records the county has the right to contact you and inspect to see if you are doing it. All this to depends on which county you are in.

For us it works out to be only slightly cheaper than just paying the accessed values. The main reason why we do it is at least the money spent is on YOUR place and not going to the county's coffers. We have been doing our plan for 3 years now and I have to say the animals are looking great. Ironically the Axis deer a non game species seems to absolutely thrive and multiply also. Hope this gives you some insight on the matter. Good luck and wish you nothing but the best in your efforts.

With all due respect, that is completely untrue.

I bought my land through the Texas Veterans Land board and this was not forfeited land. In fact, the Forfeited land is land someone bought through them and did not pay for, period, and many tracts are offered to Veterans only, at first.

You can find any land out there that is at least 1 acre and use their land loans to buy land at 5% down. The reason they have it is that Texas offers it's Veterans all sorts of things that other states do not, like low down Land loans... low down house loans and home improvement loans.

Call them and look them up at http://www.texasveterans.com and find out exactly what they do.

And this is not a spam post... I just hate when people post what they do not know about.

Another thing to note that while their interest rate MAY be higher than most at first... the fact you can get in to it for 5% down AND do like we did.. improve it and then refinance it a year later at a much better interest rate....that helps. We would never have been able to buy our ranch had we not gone through them.

The Home loans and home improvement loans are at the going rate minus half a point, plus another half a point if you have a 30% disability.. so those loans are awesome and easy to get.

Like I said.. click the link above and ask them anything you like. It is totally free of charge and they will walk you through the entire process.

Russ

That is true. The main thing I did not like about the Tx vet land purchase is that they to not include improvements such as water,barns, electrical etc in their appraisal...just raw land. So if they appraise it at $100,000 and you pay $120,000 based on improvements...you have to come up with additional 20,000 at closing.

Totally true statement and yes it is a pain. We stuck to unimproved land and we financed when they were at 7.25% financing. I think they have it at like 6.75% now. Anyway, we improved it and then refinanced at 3.1% with a lender because we had plenty of equity at that time.

Lots of ways to do it and lots of things, like what you mentioned, to think about when getting land of any sort, but if you are like me and could never save 20 grand for a down payment, it sure is a nice easy way to get into a ranch.

Russ

You can build a house on it, but have to define the area around it...usually at least an acre....and that land and the house will be taxed at the residential rate

New member and sorry to pile onto old thread, and much of this may have already been stated, but I think the experiences and lessons learned from buying land can be helpful for the next guy. We went through every one of the scenarios I've seen mentioned in the posts I've read here and learned a lot in the process.

Like many, I have been on deer leases on and off for decades - more were good than bad, but the bad situations were pretty dismal. As a result, I started thinking about buying a small place, with lots of wildlife, and the potential for living on it full time after retirement. We started looking at places all over - from southern Oklahoma to central Texas. We found a nice place in Oklahoma, but it was tied up in an estate with nearly 30 heirs. Next! Long story short, we looked at a lot of land before finding a beautiful place about 2 1/2 hours from Fort Worth, and started the purchase process.

A couple of lessons - 100% go through a land bank. The rates are a bit higher than a conventional mortgage, but with the Patronage programs paid at the end of the year, it brings most loans back on par with a traditional mortgage interest rate. Regardless, getting a reasonable loan from a traditional lender, even one where you have a relationship, is very difficult. With a land bank, be prepared for a 20% down payment, and max 20 year term.

A couple of real attractive things I was looking for when we were shopping for land. 1) Water, either tanks or running, and at a minimum, seasonal. 2) Same with drinking water, either a well or RWD, but for long term it is critical. 3) Available power - if you have to bring power in from the grid, get ready to bend over. Very expensive these days. 4) And this is important! Existing Ag Exemption. Once the land is purchased, it is up to the BUYER to demonstrate that the land has met at least the minimum usage for the past 5 years. Get an affidavit from the seller to prove they've met the requirements. If not, the NEW OWNER can be held responsible for the difference in taxes for those 5 years, and then need another 5 years to get it back under the AG valuation. Complicated, but can be a huge problem if you are not aware.

Not to make this more difficult, but the place we found is a bit smaller than I was hoping, but I went in with a plan that as other parcels near me go on sale I will try to purchase them to add to what I already have. For example, there is a piece across the road for sale, but simply by looking at it, I know that it is not meeting the AG Valuation requirements - no fence, no water, no cattle, no nest boxes, nothing but unimproved land. As a result, when someone new buys it, and if the County plays hardball, the County CAN charge the new owner the 5 year difference between the Exempt Value and Non-Exempt Value. Not saying they necessarily WILL, but can, and it would probably be several thousands of dollars.

I will over-simplify this, so don't get caught up on the words, but for several reasons, we chose to move off an AG Usage to a Wildlife Usage. It was not difficult, and I probably could have done the paperwork myself, but chose to hire a consultant who assisted through the process. That is a longer story, but it worked out well for us. Be sure to go look at your land's County website for their specific rules. The standards are set by the State, but the filing is done with the County and they may have a unique request. In ours, you have to identify a specific species for management, 100+ acres is needed for deer management unless you are part of a management group, etc. It has been my experience that the County Assessor's Office has been pretty easy to deal with, and they are just truing to do their job with the least hassle. Your county staff may be different.

Finally, insurance. Check with your provider, but in many cases as long as the land is not being used to generate income, it may be covered under your homeowner's policy - up to a certain limit. To be safe, even if covered for loss, it may be worth bumping up liability limits. A $1M liability policy may only add $20 or $30 a year to the policy and well worth it.

I've learned a lot of lessons in the time we've owned the land and hope this bit helps someone else. Building barns, buying equipment, building fence, etc. etc. Just ask!

Thanks, Dalroo. I've been researching this for a while in preperation to try and buy in the next 2-3 years and this is very helpful information.

Excellent post, Dalroo

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(806) 698-6884 Look forward to talking to you!

pm sent

My inlaws are currently in the process of purchasing land/retirement home and I am trying to help them along the way. I have read through this entire thread and learned a lot. I myself am interested in purchasing land someday in the far distance future so any help is appreciated.

What they have had issues with so far in the process is finding someone (i.e. Land broker, real estate agent, etc.) that would represent them in finding a place. From my understanding it is best to have someone represent you instead of using the seller's agent listing the property (correct me if I'm wrong). Most places they have looked at has been with the seller's agent. So my question is how to you go about finding someone that is actively looking for properties to put on the market, but looking out for your interest when it comes to purchasing the property from the seller? Or is this something you need to do the leg work yourself along with some cold calling?

They are looking for property in McLennan, Bosque, Hill, Falls, and Coryell counties. Feel free to PM if you know of any land brokers that work those counties or any leads in that area. Thanks again.

By all means, find someone to represent you that knows the area. One of the things about land in the middle of nowhere is that the "deals" are all in the back pockets of the local realtors.

Go there, find a nice place to eat that is a local dive and then look at the business cards left around the register. Go talk to them, ALL of them.

Then, look on landsoftexas and see who is selling the land in that area. When you see a place you like, try to deal with someone that is not representing that person. You may not get the chance...heh.. but it is possible.

Then, ask questions like:

1 - If there are trail cam pics, are they recent? No dates? Why? Where is the high fence?

2 - Are the trail cam pics of that land? Ask to see the exact feeder they came off of. Lots of people use the same photos for different ads. Check that stuff.

3 - Ask to see the comps and for the sake of God, if it says it has a WLM, make sure it is in full good standing, not probation, etc.. GO to the CAD and ask them, do not take ANYone's word for it. I have seen a lot of folks lose a WLM / AG because it was not filed and in the process of being revoked and all they did was check the CAD site that only lists it's current standing.

Ask anything ya like here.

I just bought a hunting property. It is very similar to buying a house. It has to be appraised, the loan application uses the HUD forms, title companies, etc.

Financing the manufactured home was worse than buying the property since it is our second residence.

I financed my land through the Texas Veterans Land Board. If you are a veteran check it out. Great benefit. The developer I bought from referred me to a bank for financing as an option to TVLB.

We live in La Grange and financed a remodel/expansion of our retirement home through a local bank. Much easier to deal with than a Wells Fargo or the like. Closing on the loan cost me all of $250.00. The banker even said he didn't need a survey because he knew where the house was. Financing land through a local bank might not be as difficult as it might seem.

Raw land does not have to be insured but liability would be a good idea unless you are the only person to ever be on the property.

Getting electricity, septic, well, and all that goes with it has been interesting but for the most part enjoyable because of all the down to earth genuine good people I met along the way.

BTW, Texas Veteran Land Board will now finance $150,000.00.

My hunting buddy and I are looking to purchase some hunting property. We are looking for bottom land that floods and has a good amount of timber.

What would be the best process for buying land jointly?

What % down payment are we looking at?

If we wanted to put in levees and water control, who do we need to contact about using water from a creek or river?

It's your life and money, but...I would never own land with a buddy.

x2

Good way to loose a buddy!!!!

What would be the best process for buying land jointly?
Most of the time you can use the same lender and split the property up without having to get it platted (550 CR 628 Tract #1 and 550 CR 628 Tract #2). This way you can finance half in your name and your buddy can finance half in his name. I know this works with veterans land board because I closed one with them 2 weeks ago.

What % down payment are we looking at?
Generally you are looking at 10-20% down (Unless you use texas veterans land board which is only 5% down and upto $150k financed per person).

If we wanted to put in levees and water control, who do we need to contact about using water from a creek or river?
You would have to contact the county office in which the property is located.

I'm a licensed buyer's agent living in Fort Worth and can answer any other questions yall have. Thanks

Russell Ott
940-206-9322
russell@ottfamilyrealty.com

Land newbie here. Looking to buy some land for family fun and potentially some hunting. Something ~30-80 acres would be ideal since I am willing to spend ~$150K, need to be within 2.5 hours of DFW. What counties would y'all suggest to look?

If deer hunting, then Eastland, Stephens, Brown would be my choices. You should be able to get land there if you don't rush yourself for $2,500 an acre. That would put you at around 60 acres. But, to enjoy anything that you buy, you need to have a budget in addition to the land cost. So, don't go spending your whole 150k on land is what I am saying.

Maybe a bit out of your budget, but I looked at a piece this past weekend in Brown County that is roughly 85 acres. Prime hunting area for deer, turkey, hogs, etc. It is a bit far from my place or I would be more interested. Just far enough I would have to trailer my tractor over. I think it is listed at 207k, which I think is too high, but maybe worth making an offer - who knows. If interested, PM me and I will send the link.

Just an FYI, I have bought three pieces of land and I found all of them on
landsoftexas.com you can filter by county, price and number of acres.

Capital Farm Credit is awesome you can get 4 to 6% with excellent credit.

wow popular post..over a half million views in 2 months

It is a very informative thread. Let me know if anyone has any questions. I stand ready to serve you and your family. I have helped several members purchase ranches and I am ready to help you buy or sell. I can always be reached on my cell phone.

One of my dreams later on in life is to have my own land that my wife and I can retire on. This is going to sound crazy, but what are the first steps y’all would recommend doing once I graduate college? I’m a senior at the university of Arkansas studying supply chain right now. I know this dream is so far out of the picture in my life currently, but I’d like to get a great head start for saving money, etc. I’m just trying to gain some wisdom from y’all!

First step, pay down student debt.

Second step.....find a career avenue to make a lot of money

I may be a bit late to the game, but IMO 2.5 hours is too far unless you are able to make regular overnight trips. You'll be shocked at the amount of work that goes into maintaining a place. Mine is a little more than an hour, and I am constantly hurrying both there and back to get the most basic stuff done. In fact, I'll be making a rushed trip this weekend to get stuff ready for dove hunting.

I know its a late response, but to Razorback how you live the next couple of years will either really set you up for life or have you playing catch up for the next several years. If you're like most students you're probably used to getting by with little money, try to stick as close to your student budget as you can for the first couple of years being out of school and really pay down debt and save as much as possible. Lenders like to lend money most to people who don't need it. You're a lot more likely to get approved and get better rates ithe more you have in liquid savings

I have not read all the posts here so this may have been answered already. Apologizes if this was already addressed. I am looking to buy some land and do not need financing. I'll be paying cash. Does anyone know of a good lawyer that does not charge a fortune to go over the closing documents for me? The property will be in Delta County and is less than 60 acres. This is my first land purchase so any advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance

Steve - the title company you use for the transaction will have a lawyer on staff. They will gladly go through the documents with you prior to closing, and should not charge a fortune. Explain to them that this is your first land purchase and they will help you out!

The fee attorney at the title company is not YOUR attorney. If you have questions/issues or just want someone to look through the contract vs the closing documents, you should retain a real estate lawyer that is working for you. The fee atty will explain what documents you are signing but he/she will not determine if the documents are drawn as they should be. I don't know anyone in that area but maybe someone will chime in. Did you have a broker on your side of the transaction involved?

I agree

I’m sorry but this is incorrect. Texas state law forbids attorneys working at title companies from giving legal advice. Their sole purpose is to review the internal documents for their employer, the title company.

Jetdad is 100% correct.

...unless something changed in the last three years since I retired.

I agree.

Either you guys have more information that what was originally asked or I missed something. I stand by my statement that the title company will gladly go over the documents with you prior to closing.

Most likely a difference in the definition of " go over the documents ".

Just about anyone can read & understand the basics of the document(s) they're asked to sign.
A simple what is this for, what do these words or this paragraph mean, sure the TC attorney will answer.

To go over the documents and get an actual legal opinion on any or all documentation with the buyers best interests as #1 priority, you need your own attorney.
These folks do it all day every day, you'd be surprised how much a decent 'buyers' attorney can catch and how many transactions take place & are recorded with defects and things that do effect the buyer.

The title company attorneys are impartial. It's that simple. They cannot be there for the buyer and the seller at the same time. As Rustler said, explaining the documents is one thing. Conveying intentions from the negotiations, contract and closing docs is a different matter. If you have never done this before, you should get some guidance. It shouldn't be that expensive.

One side note. Delta county is very sparsely populated. There's a good chance the seller and the title company attorney have some kind of connection. Be it friend, distant relative or whatever. Not trying to offend anyone but it does happen.

Thanks everyone. I do want to get an attorney that represents me and can validate all documents. I asked my Legal Plan that I participate in and they do not cover non primary resident closings so I will have to look for a real-estate attorney on the Internet. If you have a lead for me please PM me.

Thanks,
Steve

I don't know what part of the state you are in - I am an Ag Lender for AgTexas Farm Credit. This type of financing is what we do and in my opinion nobody can compete with our products, rates, patronage, - this is what we do - I would encourage you to reach out if you are still looking.

Steve said he was paying cash...not financing....

Its hard to get the 3 %' ers to pay attention...

Nearly 11 years ago, and 1 wife ago, I posted this post originally. So I wanted to check in and say in 2017 I purchased 100 acres. Have it 1/2 paid off now. Planning on building a house there as soon as the land is paid off.

Will say it is the best investment I’ve ever made. In just over 3 years I have had a well drilled (now have 2), brought in electricity, put my own septic in, have a dozen cattle and purchased an rv to stay in when we want.

If anyone has questions please feel free to contact me

Also, through my land I found a second business selling solar water well pumps! If anyone needs one let me know

Congrats Hunter_Man, that’s really impressive!

I read over this thread twice now and am surprised at the amount of info it contains. I think I’ve come to a point where I’m going to start saving/planning for a purchase of some land to hunt and enjoy. Of course that means finding more ways to save and make additional money.

Firesheriff, not sure. I have a wildlife exemption in Montague County but went to it and cancelled my Ag exemption at the same time. No cows to mess with or fences to worry about. When I did it, you could only do it when you were going to it from an Ag/grazing exemption. Without an exemption, I couldn't afford to own the place.

Here's what I did in 1983. I started calling realtors within a 100 mile radius of my home in Hurst. I told them about my desires and most weren't interested. Then I talked to one in Bowie. They had such a place. 133 acres of total junk that didn't even have a road through it. $400 an acre for 133.752 acres. Nobody else was interested in it because it was so heavily wooded/rocky that there was no way to get any production (grazing) off of it. I financed some of it with a Veterans Land Board loan. The sellers carried the rest. Then the sellers got into a divorce and needed $ so I cut a deal to pay them off. Then I went through a divorce but, due to the VLB loan in only my name, she couldn't touch it. Later, when I got over being dead broke from the divorce, I paid the whole thing off.

Over time, I had a road dozed that has now totally washed out and good for only a tractor or 4 wheeler. Then a camper trailer that I replaced with a white trash trailer house that I have remodeled and added electricity. Had a well dug. Then a 1 acre stock tank/pond that I stocked. Next was building a tractor shade and an old construction office trailer for storage. Next a shipping container for more of my junk and 4 wheelers.

It's taken years and still have to do "stuff" there just like I have to do at home. I still need to do more on the trailer house but it's mainly our home away from home.

My advise: Don't look for a square peg for a square hole. But, define your objectives. I'm not the smartest guy here but what I bought in 1983 for about $50,000 is now worth about $500,000 and, due to the exemption , taxes are negligible.

I would have spent more on deer leases.

This is some good info, thanks for posting 🙂

Hi All,

In the early stages of looking for land and have some questions was hoping yall might know.

We want a house of some type on the property, but if we find land we like with no type of home on the property whats the best option? mobile, modular, manufactured?

can that be finaced into the property or does it need to be separate? or if both are an option is one better?

Utilities, reading this has helped me understand that even if utilities are close doesnt mean they can be hooked into. How do you find out if you can?

if you cant how do you find out cost to get them?

can that be financed into the property or does it need to be separate?

I’d get liability insurance, minimally.

Helomech, you can get more than one exemption? I went through the VLB along time ago. Now paid off.

Hello all,

I am looking at buying some land in East Texas for hunting and am a first time land buyer. I have seen some listings in Bowie county that I plan on checking out this weekend, I was wondering if anyone knew how the hunting is in this county? Mostly looking to hunt deer and hogs. The properties I am looking at are from US-259 and east, west of TX-98, and between US-67 and US-82.

I have heard of poaching issues in this county but not sure of the details, a lot of what I have read are of land owners poaching on the property they leased to others but I would like to know if anyone has any real knowledge on this.

Thanks

Why not check with the Game Warden there, he would know the honest facts?

PM sent
And welcome to the forum.

Game warden and neighbor is best resource

Hello Mr T, I had the same question. Mind sending me any info? Unfamiliar with the area

Helomech, I had no idea that you could use more than one exemptions.

Well,if you wait the cost will probably go higher. Just sayin'. Seems to be the way of things. For instance, the taxes the first year (10 yrs ago) was $1500 and has climbed to $2300.

Anyway, I began by using the TVLB, then my wife decided she wanted to be 1/2 partner and we paid cash. It is a fact that the interest rates for TVLB seem usurious, but where ya gonna go? They are veeeeery easy to do business with. Little money down, few restrictions and quick close in many cases.

Anyway, the taxes on our little ranch keep climbing every year. And, no, I don't have Ag exempt or any other kind of exempt. So...I lease it and use that money to defray the expenses. It never was Ag exempt, and I am not going to put livestock out there. Bees? You have to pay per hive and it takes time. So does Wildlife exemption. Hey, not impossible but takes time and effort. And before some of you trolls on this Forum start spouting off: I've been very busy until recently in the Healthcare field. Owning land etc. has had to be on the back burner due to time and responsibility constraints.

Oh, I have learned so much from my tenants. Almost all have been upstanding, honorable, decent dudes. They have made me a better steward of my land, and definitely a better hunter.

As for water: I don't have it on my property. But, luckily bought land that is low fenced and everyone around me has tanks full of water. That matters.

Another thing to consider might be mineral rights. Which I do not have. Did you know that if you don't, you only own the surface of the land? Legit. Or so I understand. So, if you can get the rights, so much the better.

All said, I have enjoyed land ownership on the Edward's Plateau. It has fed me and my family and friends. Just being out there is a blessing. Listening to the coyotes at night is to me a symphony most folks never get to hear. And the STARS! Big and bright! Got fer it! Get some land.

In my experience, the neighbors are usually the ones taking advantage of the absentee owner's property out this way.

You got that right. The owners away the neighbors will play.

Wow! Got a call from a buddy that is a realtor around where my land is; Bowie. He said that land prices/values have really gone nuts. He just sold a POS, recreational property like mine for $$8,000 per acre. It had no structures, no water well, stock tanks, lousy fences, no electricity, nothing but trees and rocks. The buyer was from Seattle.

It's been that way in Montague for a year now. Land around my lease has tripled since covid. What was $2k to $3k an acre is almost $10k now in 2 years. Thanks China and California. There is a new subdivision south of Nocona. Selling 2 acre plots for $49,000 in the middle of nowhere. $99k is you want a barndo shell. Most inquires are Californians asking about it on the FB ads. There is a less than 2 acre patch of dirt next our place asking $69k for. Go look at Lands of Texas for the county. Your place will bring a million easily.

I feel like I won't be able to buy my own land any time soon. Small parcel, sure, but 100 acres or more seems like a long way away. Trying to focus on getting two kids through school in the coming years, still have a "new" house payment. My family, going back to great grandparents NEVER owned any land so there was none to pass down, etc. It is a bummer to get online and look at what is out there and be completely SHOCKED at the prices. I might have to buy something out in Presidio, Val Verde or Brewster County just to afford something. But really, I have been lucky to have access to a few pieces of land from time-to-time and that is good for now. Blessed to have that at least!

I can’t believe I started this thread 13 years ago. Finally bought my land in 2017 and will pay it off next month. 100 acres Coke county.

Lots of good info in here!

Congrats!!

X2

I also noticed the 2009 start.

What are some of the ways to bring in income? What I was thinking is buy some land and don't use it for a while, lease out grazing rights, hunting rights, etc. Would that be enough to cover the mortgage payments. Outside of Del Rio I ran into a guy that told me his buddy/friend ran an exotic hunt operation but stopped. He did it to get the property free and clear.

Leasing out hunting rights should also include a liability insurance policy.

Do you have details on your land, if you don’t mind.