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 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
#911556
09/17/09 06:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,231
HighTechRedneck
OP
redman
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OP
redman
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,231 |
Some of you that are into management of your leases answer a question for me. It seem's we are covered in 3 year old 8 point bucks at our lease. We hunt 1500 acres and are nearly surrounded by ranches that allow NO hunting and one that mainly Duck hunts. We have the oppurtunity to raise some big Bucks but seems that they are reaching 3 and 4 and still an 8 point. Do you shoot your 3 1/2 year old 8's or let them walk till 4 and see what they do? This is probably not a good year to judge there true potential by, due to the drought we had been in all year, but then again this seems to be an on going problem. Letting Bucks walk till there mature and still seeing a lot of 3 year old 8's!!! I had a problem of guys killing young Deer and couldn't seem to train them to age a Deer until I imposed a fine on young Bucks and button bucks. Finally the young ones are walking and growing up but we are still facing the problem of the 3 year old 8 pointers. Thanks for any input.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: HighTechRedneck]
#911728
09/17/09 07:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
For us its a judgement call at 3.5. If we feel that by 5.5 or 6.5 they have a good chance of being in the 140-150" range even if they are still an 8 we tend to let them walk.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: rifleman]
#911755
09/17/09 07:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,290
BenBob
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,290 |
Thye have a better chance of being a better deer just by reaching an older age, so why not let them walk. They are more likely to be a trophy if they are still out there on the hoof rather than in somone's freezer.
Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: BenBob]
#911854
09/17/09 08:13 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,191
Rowney
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,191 |
Deer at 3.5 breed the most. But, until you have let them go to 4.5 to 5.5, you cant tell. The enviroment you have, nutrition, etc, could be dictating that a deer needs a few more years to reach potential. I have seen way to many bucks at 3.5 that were 8's, that were 10's later.
As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind...Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks--Thomas Jefferson
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: Rowney]
#911895
09/17/09 08:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,842
WTGuide
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 3,842 |
8 point genetics are stronger than any other genetic. That's why there are so many 8 pts running around. Our policy is to take every 8 point that is 3.5 or older unless we know the deer had more in a better year. There will be the occassional exceptional "8" that will get walking papers but for the most part...given best case senario for feed/rain/water, etc. 8 points are management items that get harvested first to do our best to control the gene. Everyone has their own opinion but we found this works best for us. 
Think you can/Think you can't/Either way you're right 
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: WTGuide]
#912070
09/17/09 09:36 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,016
SingleShot85
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,016 |
As WTG stated you are never going to get rid of 8pt deer and when mature 90% will score 125-135. Some will be smaller and some will be bigger. A few will even bust out some kickers.
Additionally 2-4 year old bucks make up the biggest percentage of bucks on your property, you'll see them most. The older they get the smarter they get, and fewer there are to find.
If you want to have plenty of deer in this score region let'em walk and take the good with the poor. Or hammer'em and give the resources to other deer.
We tend to kill them if their score is poor or doesn't show potential. I'll take a 150 whatever 6,7,8,9......
KT
Last edited by doctaylor; 09/17/09 09:37 PM.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: SingleShot85]
#912126
09/17/09 10:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,489
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,489 |
I wouldn't but thats me. No buck gets shot at our place under 5.5. He would have to be really worthless to get taken out 4.5, and extremley worthless to get taken at 3.5.
My deer density is probley a lot less then yours.
I wouldn't even begin to set an age to take a deer unless I knew if my current density was high or low for my land.. and then what my sex ratio is.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#913238
09/18/09 12:38 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,231
HighTechRedneck
OP
redman
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OP
redman
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,231 |
TPW biologist was supposed to come do a survey for us to let us know our herd size and ratio etc. According to what we are seeing on our game cams and everything else it looks like we are about a 2 to 1 Doe to Buck ratio, Bucks come to horns good at our lease so that also tells me we have a good Buck to Doe ratio. Right now we have been letting all the 3.5 year old 8's walk but I am seeing inferior 4.5 year old 8's, these will start getting taken out. I appreciate all the input.
Last edited by HighTechRedneck; 09/18/09 12:39 PM.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: HighTechRedneck]
#913289
09/18/09 01:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 877
fishhound
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 877 |
How many 3.5 yr old 10+ pointers do you have? That's what I would consider first. If a good 3.5 yr old on your place is typically an 8 then let em go. If you know you've got a good number of 10+ pointers then cull the heck out of em.
Main thing that I've always believed is if you can tell a deer is a cull at 3.5 then shoot em all. I don't beleive in limiting the number of culls that are taken just to preserve the ratios.
A cull is a cull and if you don't want those genetics deal with it now rather than later. The ratios can be corrected over time but if you let bad genetics reproduce then your not being nearly as efficeint as you could be.
Again this is general. You have to decide what a cull is for your place though. I do believe in culling deer at 3.5 no younger.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: HighTechRedneck]
#913297
09/18/09 01:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 751
M16
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 751 |
I shoot most 3.5 year old eight pointers on my ranch. If one is an exceptional eight pointer I let them walk. Might not be the best way to do things but I really like 150+ eight pointers.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: fishhound]
#913307
09/18/09 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,564
rsquared
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,564 |
as stated above, it has got to start with data....
you really want to know your basic deer density and buck doe ratios.
we just finished our MLD surveys 2 nights ago and it looks like we landed around 1 mature deer per 4 acres... or way too many deer.
buck doe ratios were just over 2 does for every buck.
so for us, we will let the younger looking 8ptrs go by along with some of the 10 and 12's that are 3.5 range.
but we will be more aggressive on culls, spikes, etc...
this is not a spike debate, only that since we have so many deer per acre, our plan calls for us to take 24 bucks with most of them being culls. so we need to do some hunting just to help lower the population a bit and allow the best deer to use the natural resources of the land. if i happen to see a fully mature 8ptr (over 6.5), i will likely take it given our numbers for this year.
just my two cents worth
Stuff my dad said in the deer blind
"I can dive deeper and come up drier"
"did you do that?"
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: rsquared]
#913863
09/18/09 05:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 42
deerhuntnow
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 42 |
Since you have a large place and no hunting around you, you should take all 8s over 3.
Drought and nutrition may have an effect on antler and body size but won't alter the "points".
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: fishhound]
#918033
09/21/09 05:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,231
HighTechRedneck
OP
redman
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OP
redman
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,231 |
That's anoher point well taken fishhound. I am not seeing ANY young 9 or 10 pointers on my cameras. We are really stretched out as far as the lay of the land and some of the guys up front hadn't had there cameras going as of yet so I am not sure about the front pastures. From what I am seeing on the back half of the property and from what I saw on stand last year we have a ton of 8 pointers. Some are pretty impressive young 8's and I think should walk this year and see what they do next year. Some are definately scrub horn bucks, spindly main beams with short tines. Just not seeing anything so far above an 8 pointer and most of those are 2 to 3 years old. We do have some older Bucks with split G2's and 10 pointers etc. that I have seen on camera so I know we have some decent gentetics just frustrated with all the 8's I guess.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: HighTechRedneck]
#918091
09/21/09 05:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 877
fishhound
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 877 |
Sounds to me like you just need some more age on those 8s and they might make fork horns or 10s. At least they'd make nice big 8s. You could start shooting the weaker 8s at 3.5.
Don't get me wrong I love seeing big high scoring bucks just like anyone else but you have to manage to the potential of your place. Some places won't grow 150 class deer unless you fence them.
Sounds to me like you have a nice place though. Just concentrate on getting some age on those bucks. I'd love to have a place with a bunch of big mature 8s and a few 10s. To me the age of a buck is as much of a trophy as the horns. My two trophys were both at least 7.5 years old. I love those old moss backs.
I've got an eight on film that goes easy 150 and probably pushes 160. People don't beleive me till I bust out the picutres. That's the ultimate trophy if you ask me.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: fishhound]
#918550
09/21/09 08:58 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,794
ILUVBIGBUCKS
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,794 |
There are lots and lots of variables that need to be taken into consideration before shooting a 3.5 year old 8 point. To me, 1st and foremost would be is your B to D ratio what it should be and is the carrying capacity where it needs to be. Is there plenty of food available all year long for this deer herd? Was there a drought the year this 3.5 year old class was born? If the answer is yes to those questions then this is the way I see it. You have to take a look and see what your average 3.5 year old buck looks like. What I mean by this is there a lot of 9, 10+ points that age running around? If not, then I sure as heck wouldn't kill all the 3.5 8s I see. I'd much rather pass up a 120" 3.5 year old 8 point with a good frame, then a 120" 10 point that is 4.5 years old and has a smaller frame!
Every ranch is different and the same ranch can be very different from just one year to the next!
I think the best practice is if the 3.5 year old buck that is standing in front of you falls below what you would deem as acceptable for the particular ranch at that time, bust his arse. What I mean is if you've got a 90" 8 point standing between two 120"+ other bucks that are the same age, kill him!
Call me crazy but I would much rather kill a 150" slick 8 then a 160" slick 10!!
High fence, low fence, no fence, it really doesn't matter as long as you're hunting!
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: ILUVBIGBUCKS]
#918623
09/21/09 09:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550
rtp
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550 |
There are lots and lots of variables that need to be taken into consideration before shooting a 3.5 year old 8 point. To me, 1st and foremost would be is your B to D ratio what it should be and is the carrying capacity where it needs to be. Is there plenty of food available all year long for this deer herd? Was there a drought the year this 3.5 year old class was born? If the answer is yes to those questions then this is the way I see it. You have to take a look and see what your average 3.5 year old buck looks like. What I mean by this is there a lot of 9, 10+ points that age running around? If not, then I sure as heck wouldn't kill all the 3.5 8s I see. I'd much rather pass up a 120" 3.5 year old 8 point with a good frame, then a 120" 10 point that is 4.5 years old and has a smaller frame!
Every ranch is different and the same ranch can be very different from just one year to the next!
I think the best practice is if the 3.5 year old buck that is standing in front of you falls below what you would deem as acceptable for the particular ranch at that time, bust his arse. What I mean is if you've got a 90" 8 point standing between two 120"+ other bucks that are the same age, kill him!
Call me crazy but I would much rather kill a 150" slick 8 then a 160" slick 10!!
Your post is spot on. The things you mentioned most people never consider. BTW, Im still looking for that 150" slick 8.
Last edited by rtp; 09/21/09 09:45 PM.
Let'em grow old
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: rtp]
#919184
09/22/09 02:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,768
killemall
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,768 |
We don't shoot anything till 4.5 unless it is obvious genetic mess. Even then we like to see 2 years of bad horns on an individual deer. Nutrition has alot to do with it as well. At 3.5 alot of energy still going to body weight development. At 4.5 it has shifted to horn growth.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: killemall]
#924173
09/24/09 03:28 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5
wtexaswave
Green Horn
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Green Horn
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5 |
A new study on buck dominance and age, and their respective effects upon herd genetics just got published by the guys down at Texas A&M. You can catch the highlights in this months Field and Stream. The primary conclusions of the study were that dominant bucks are not necessarily the dominant breeders in the herd and that the primary drawback of harvesting a quality deer in the 3.5 to 4.5 year old age range was that he wont be there next year to be bigger, not that it will negatively impact your herd genetics.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: wtexaswave]
#924205
09/24/09 03:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,162
TexasDefender
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,162 |
Do what you want, there is little chance that buck will stay on your place when he is 5,6,7,etc. If we would have shot all the 3 year old 8s on our place, we wouldn't have this guy: 
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: TexasDefender]
#929209
09/27/09 01:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 59
Chivo
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 59 |
IMHO if you don't selectively take out young 8 pts then after a period of time you will never see anything bigger. I say this from experience on a place about 20 miles south of Sheffield. 8 points were taken for 2 years after the rut and the 3 rd year, horn quality took a huge jump.
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Re: 3 year old 8 point Buck management question.
[Re: Chivo]
#929334
09/27/09 03:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258
AmoCuernos
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,258 |
IMHO if you don't selectively take out young 8 pts then after a period of time you will never see anything bigger. I say this from experience on a place about 20 miles south of Sheffield. 8 points were taken for 2 years after the rut and the 3 rd year, horn quality took a huge jump. huh? Culled for 2 years and antler quality took a huge jump? Was that in your yearlings or your buck fawns??? It COULDN'T have an effect on any other age class...
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