Just like Helomech said. We've been takin several deer per year and our herd is still growing.

You have not taken the time to do proper research. We got does cummin out the yin yang and cull bucks as well. If we only got to shoot one a year, we'd never be able to produce the quality bucks we've had the last few years. And no, small acreage owners don't need to be reined-in. I think someone just needs to come down off their high horse.

I'm not on any "high horse". I just think ARs are a dishonest way of achieving a goal.

See, we agree.

Go a step further, there's no need for the goal!!!!!!

we all need goals sig....even TPWD

Good to see someone jump out there and post a suggestion for an alternative to ARs. Would be interesting to see everyone else's suggestion instead of just "AR sux" or finding fault in someone else's idea.

I have a solution for ARs if you dont like em.

HUNT SOMEWHERE ELSE!

Lands been in my family 100 years and your telling me to hunt somewhere else because the government imposed a regulation...how about think before you speak

In Tyler County the bag limit was 2 bucks and 2 does last year and we are AR this year!!! I think if you just lowered the limit to 1 buck 2 does you could accomplished the same thing of allowing more young bucks to survive!!! I don't know much about other AR Counties!!!

OK, how about this, do away with them, cause they........

They are the alternative.

There was nothing wrong to begin with.

And what would you recommend in regards to limits in your county?

Well it was one buck and does by permit only for about 20 years, and they had the greatest growth in numbers ever, healthiest herd, highest fawn rate in North America.... then THEY decided we needed AR's... it wasn't broke. May have been somewhere, but it was getting better year by year up there in Red River/Lamar/Fannin.

As for scientific numbers, I don't have them. But I wouldn't start a program without them either. And if I did have real scientific numbers, I'd share them, and seek the opinion of others, experts or laymen, and make a decision based on deer, not hunters or horns.

I sure don't remember all the complaints when it was one buck and does by permit only....

In the other counties, heck, Archer, you could take 5 a hunter and not hurt any. In Foard, too many does to bucks in my opinion. In Real, one per week would be ok for a year or two.

Bowhunter

New York

ArcherTalk-NY

Alabama

New York

Pennsylvania

Missouri-4 pt rule


Kentucky

Dude, why do u keep changing the title?

Thanks for using google. I appreciate the hits.

Your first article summarizes TPWD rationale.

It also clearly misinforms readers that the counties are making the decisions, using that as evidence of success.

Of course you can prove anything if you use your own statistics... "the deer that are getting killed are older", well of course, the rules made them get older. The percentage of deer that are spikes is down, you think? It's legal to shoot the suckers and you still get to hunt a good deer.

It's spread to other counties, so of course it's a good deal.

Heck, blackleg spread to other counties too, so it must be a good thing.

Still no data, we see opinions (like ours) and hand-picked statistics, what about data?

There's not any, at least not that's public and not that holds up to scientific peer review.

If there was, you can bet it would be on the first page of their website.





Now, will it make deer older. Yes.
Will it make deer better? Better is not a statistical analysis, it's subjective. Could it make the bigggest one bigger, maybe. Could it reduce the number total and reduce hunter success and reduce hunter retention, yes.

They need to get data from somewhere other than a few meat lockers in a few counties in 2002.

Taken from realtree.... http://whitetail.realtree.com/whitetailology/


Setting realistic deer management goals is critical to the success of a QDM program in poor-quality habitat. If the land is n ot capable of producing record-book bucks, this should not be a goal of your program. Your goal should be to maximize your deer herd¹s potential. In many areas of Florida's Coastal Plain, a 3 1/2- or 4 1/2-year-old buck may only weigh 120 pounds and have a rack that scores 105 B&C points. If you set your goals on producing 130-class B&C bucks, you are setting yourself up for disappointment and failure.


there, even QDMA people agree that it just might not work everywhere, that took about 2 minutes to find horn hunters publication that proves my point....

Oh, here's some government thinking in action:

Comment: Many comments were received that simply stated support or opposition without
explanation.
Response: The Department anticipated mixed response from New York deer hunters to the
proposed rulemaking.

HUH?
Hunters expressed support or opposition, and that's what the state expected? Really, bet that took a PhD a year to decide.

They could have come here, we could tell them that some like them and some don't in about 30 seconds.

Great post.