The biggest take-away from countries like Italy, is that the treatment received may not be the best every time, but you will never have to worry about going bankrupt. Still, Italians have much better outcomes than Americans. Their system is ranked among the highest performers such as France and Norway, while ours is towards the bottom with Mexico and Algeria.

Take legislation out of it. Where is freedom to enjoy good health written in the Constitution? Maybe if people had to suffer from the consequences of their chosen bad actions, they could live in such a manner as to be more healthy. If not, it is their choice after all, why should we pay for it? If they didn’t, it could save on social security benefits.

The Injuns had it right.

That’s why I made sure to point out that the current affairs aren’t in line with the concept of good government.

I actually don’t like the ACA, which tried to be the national system. It was passed through bullying and deceptive tactics; “we have to pass it to see what’s in it”. Ethically established national healthcare would work like it is in France and Norway.

I use the VHA exclusively and am satisfied. Yes, the wait times can be frustrating, but the savings are worth it.

Ten years, i think you are in health admin or something similar and look at data, but simply looking at data is NOT the whole story. Data can be made to say whatever you want it to say. So trying to compare any other system in the world to the US system is simply a foolhardy attempt to push an agenda, and nothing more.

Name one country you would rather be in if you had a heart attack, a cancer diagnosis, or needed a trauma surgery. Name one other country you would rather be in for choices of care, ability to get care if you are not happy with where ypu are currently receiving care, or ability to switch doctors if not happy.

The VA is nothing like the UK healthcare, in that the VA routinely uses civilian providers to take care of backlog and allow veterans to get timely care or care that can not be provided in the VA system. The UK does not have that fallback option. Medicare is nothing like the canadian system in that the canadian system runs out of money and stops providing services in many provinces, sometimes half way thru the year. Many canadians either come to the US and pay cash or pay cash outside their provincial systems because access is so difficult.

Lumping those systems together and saying they are essentially the same is as disingenuous as using world health scores as a comparison between countries…we all know the metrics are different and this absolutely gives a poorer score for the US since we are not comparing apples to apples, more like apples to watermelons.

I don't think cancer, genetic hypertension, and other maladies are choices.

My personal opinion is that my fellow conservatives refuse to look at most issues from a viewpoint different than "eff you, freedom!", and don't see the big picture. Healthcare is so much more complicated than that. The current state of affairs aside, governments have a duty to provide the best possible environment for its citizens. One of those is health.
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The government forced itself into American’s lives relating to healthcare when it made it a requirement to have health insurance.

Not required. You can simply pay a tax penalty and still get free health care. It’s a crock of crap

Ten years, just one example that is commonly touted by people who are in similar mantra as you:

Infant mortality. The data says the US is not great in the world from infant mortality standards.

However, the US included any baby born, premature and or term. Most countries include only babies born after 36 weeks. Another example Is the cdc co siders infant mortality as any baby death from conception to first year of life, while the WHO considers infant death from the pregnancy thru first 42 days. So we are comparing apples to oranges just because the “metrics” are not the same when looking at that data.

Another example of how it is apples to oranges is the US has a serious drug problem, and most preterm babies are born of drug addicted mothers and these babies in turn are drug addicted. Most countries do not have the same drug problems we do here in the US. Just another way data says whatever you want.

Say what you want, i wont argue anymore with you. If you want to believe something, feel free, i am bot changing that here. But just realize you are touting half truths and sometimes flat put lies.

I wont quote where you sId the VHA was essentially the UK system and medicare was canadian system. The post is just a few up so its easy to see.

. . . In our country, there should never be a need for fundraising so people can get the care they need, or family finances included in care decisions when other countries have already figured it out. Congress certainly thinks we have more than enough since they ship billions to other countries.