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Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9026483 03/29/24 06:15 PM
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Read "One Man's War" and get a picture of how some slaves were treated by their owners. And then how the "rescued" ones were treated by the Union that "saved" them.

He saw the war coming to his yard, and freed all of his slaves. But it was their home, and they wanted to stay. They lived there and they farmed it in tobacco. They asked if they could take up their former owner's last name and he agreed.

Those freedmen and women's greatest fear was the Union Army. And rightfully so.


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Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9026544 03/29/24 09:17 PM
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That really shows what sucks the most about slavery. The way it suddenly ended for a bunch of folks that had little or no personal property/effects, and knew no other way to live.

It was purely a tactical decision and this quote demonstrates the cruelty of throwing sheep to the wolves with no help, or skills, or preparation. Off you go now, good luck!

Go where, and do what? It should have been handled better than that. But in the middle of a civil war, nothing makes sense.

Last edited by 10 Gauge; 03/29/24 09:19 PM.

1 Thessalonians 4:11-14
Re: Civil War [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9026563 03/29/24 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TurkeyHunter
Originally Posted by ducknbass
Lincoln’s famous quote about “saving the union without freeing a single slave” is very important.




Read the whole letter for the complete context.

===============================================

August 22, 1862
EXECUTIVE MANSION,

WASHINGTON, Aug. 22, 1862.

Hon. Horace Greeley:

DEAR SIR: I have just read yours of the 19th, addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements or assumptions of fact which I may know to be erroneous, I do not now and here controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here argue against them. If there be perceptible in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing," as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time save Slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy Slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy Slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union, and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views. I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty, and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men, everywhere, could be free. Yours,

A. LINCOLN.



So he is saying in this letter, that he does not care one way or the other about slavery thank you again for proving the point he wants to “save the union“ but he attacked the south. Which he viewed as part of the union of states. That does not seem like a real good way to treat your fellow countryman.

Lincoln destroyed this country, burnt half of it down the deadliest war in our countries, history, and he will be remembered for that.

Re: Civil War [Re: 10 Gauge] #9026576 03/29/24 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 Gauge
That really shows what sucks the most about slavery. The way it suddenly ended for a bunch of folks that had little or no personal property/effects, and knew no other way to live.

It was purely a tactical decision and this quote demonstrates the cruelty of throwing sheep to the wolves with no help, or skills, or preparation. Off you go now, good luck!

Go where, and do what? It should have been handled better than that. But in the middle of a civil war, nothing makes sense.


The whole deal was pretty awful. We lost more people in the civil war than all other wars combined.


To be determined
Re: Civil War [Re: ducknbass] #9026715 03/30/24 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ducknbass
Originally Posted by TurkeyHunter
Originally Posted by ducknbass
Lincoln’s famous quote about “saving the union without freeing a single slave” is very important.




Read the whole letter for the complete context.

===============================================

August 22, 1862
EXECUTIVE MANSION,

WASHINGTON, Aug. 22, 1862.

Hon. Horace Greeley:

DEAR SIR: I have just read yours of the 19th, addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements or assumptions of fact which I may know to be erroneous, I do not now and here controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here argue against them. If there be perceptible in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing," as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time save Slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy Slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy Slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union, and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views. I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty, and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men, everywhere, could be free. Yours,

A. LINCOLN.



So he is saying in this letter, that he does not care one way or the other about slavery thank you again for proving the point he wants to “save the union“ but he attacked the south. Which he viewed as part of the union of states. That does not seem like a real good way to treat your fellow countryman.

Lincoln destroyed this country, burnt half of it down the deadliest war in our countries, history, and he will be remembered for that.


I recommend reading through this civil war timeline:


https://www.battlefields.org/learn/...MCVQXd-Vns9ucE2KynChPK83psMaAs_pEALw_wcB


To be determined
Re: Civil War [Re: DonPablo] #9026764 03/30/24 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DonPablo
Originally Posted by 10 Gauge
Written by the wealthy elite, for the wealthy elite. The men that fought had no slaves, they fought over taxation without representation.

The average war fighter in those days had never seen a black person in his whole life nor cared about them one way or the other. He cared about not paying 80% of all taxes.

The same elites that played that game then are playing it now from the other side. Those damn whites owe you! But they are not liable 🤣


I would argue that the South was over-represented. In fact from everything I've read in the history books, it seems the civil war was very much about slavery. But not because the northerners loved blacks or because the southerners hated blacks. Rather it was because of the 3/5 compromise. This gave the Southern States more power than the northern states. The northerners wanted to end that while the southerners wanted to retain/expand it.


The free Norbern states forced this on the Southern states from the get go. The North didn’t want to count them at all.

Re: Civil War [Re: Hudbone] #9029260 04/04/24 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ducknbass
So he is saying in this letter, that he does not care one way or the other about slavery thank you again for proving the point he wants to “save the union“ but he attacked the south. Which he viewed as part of the union of states. That does not seem like a real good way to treat your fellow countryman.

Lincoln destroyed this country, burnt half of it down the deadliest war in our countries, history, and he will be remembered for that.


I would argue that the south forced his hand. People always want to blame Lincoln but look at the timeline. So many southern states seceded before he even took office. What did Lincoln do at that point? All he had “done” was get elected. The confederates that supposedly wanted peace were forcedly taking US forts. I think he waited way longer than he should have to respond with force. Imagine if El Paso county (during Trump’s presidency) decided to secede from TX and kicked the fed government out of Fort Bliss while simultaneously taking ownership of all of its equipment/armory. Would you expect Trump to hem and haw over the situation the way Lincoln did? Or would you expect him to act swiftly and decisively?

So much of the angst was over slavery in the territories that weren’t even states. Why? It was all about power and a (mistakenly) perceived solidarity among slave owning states.

Originally Posted by Hudbone
The free Norbern states forced this on the Southern states from the get go. The North didn’t want to count them at all.


They didn’t want to but they had no choice. We’ll never know and can only speculate but I’d bet that if Lincoln only wanted to repeal the 3/5 Compromise, the result would’ve been the same.

Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9029280 04/04/24 08:29 PM
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The next one will be know as "The war of Democrat /Communist Aggression."

Re: Civil War [Re: deerfeeder] #9029309 04/04/24 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by deerfeeder
The next one will be know as "The war of Democrat /Communist Aggression."

Yep. Sad state of affairs but we've been witnessing the ever so gradual changes for a few decades.


Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
I was wrong...on anything technical.

Originally Posted by Sailor
Fitz............. is right, ya know............
Re: Civil War [Re: The Dude Abides] #9029497 04/05/24 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by The Dude Abides
I'll wait until it comes out for free!

Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9029577 04/05/24 01:21 PM
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The causes of the war and why individual Confederate soldiers fought can be two entirely different things. To say a poor kid from the hardscrabble Freedom Hills of Alabama who had never owned a slave was fighting to uphold slavery is ludicrous. They fought because their family, friends and state meant more to them than life itself. Both my GG grandfather and his brother went through the entire war in Company I, 48th Alabama Infantry, ANV. To say they were poor is an understatement. They fought for each other, nothing more, nothing less.

Re: Civil War [Re: J.G.] #9029585 04/05/24 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by J.G.
Read "One Man's War" and get a picture of how some slaves were treated by their owners. And then how the "rescued" ones were treated by the Union that "saved" them.

He saw the war coming to his yard, and freed all of his slaves. But it was their home, and they wanted to stay. They lived there and they farmed it in tobacco. They asked if they could take up their former owner's last name and he agreed.

Those freedmen and women's greatest fear was the Union Army. And rightfully so.


Yep. We probably wouldn't be in the mess we are today had the South won. It led to the expansion, power, corruption and lawlessness we see of the feds today.

Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9029621 04/05/24 02:42 PM
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Like two days before Lincoln became president, a bill was passed forcing Southerners to pay a 40 percent tax on all imports. I think it was the Morrill Tariff. But basically, Southerners were paying about 80 percent of all Federal taxes. Congress had plans to raise taxes on Southerners even more, they were basically increasing taxes on the South to pay for the industrial revolution.

If you try to google it up you will basically get a bunch of persuasive articles that try to spin it, they will pretty much say it was nothing to do with taxes, them evil Southerners just wanted slaves. But almost nobody had slaves, only something like the top 3% most wealthy of the South.

Last edited by 10 Gauge; 04/05/24 02:49 PM.

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Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9029622 04/05/24 02:55 PM
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As for war fighters, I am pretty sure there were many that joined the Army to escape poverty, white or black. That hasn’t changed much!

Last edited by 10 Gauge; 04/05/24 03:11 PM.

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Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9031414 04/09/24 01:46 PM
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Watching :

How did the Cival War actually happen ? (Part 1)

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Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9032399 04/11/24 01:52 PM
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By far the most comprehensive explanation I've ever read can be found at this link...I suggest you all read it.

https://www.ushist.com/general-information/10_causes_of_the_war_between_the_states.shtml

Re: Civil War [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9032408 04/11/24 02:01 PM
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It was not a tax but the tariff

1. TARIFF
Prior to the war about 75% of the money to operate the Federal Government was derived from the Southern States via an unfair sectional tariff on imported goods and 50% of the total 75% was from just 4 Southern states--Virginia-North Carolina--South Carolina and Georgia. Only 10%--20% of this tax money was being returned to the South. The Southern states were being treated as an agricultural colony of the North and bled dry. John Randolph of Virginia's remarks in opposition to the tariff of 1820 demonstrates that fact. The North claimed that they fought the war to preserve the Union but the New England Industrialists who were in control of the North were actually supporting preservation of the Union to maintain and increase revenue from the tariff. The industrialists wanted the South to pay for the industrialization of America at no expense to them. Revenue bills introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives prior to the War Between the States were biased, unfair and inflammatory to the South. Abraham Lincoln had promised the Northern industrialists that he would increase the tariff rate if he was elected president of the United States. Lincoln increased the rate to a level that exceeded even the "Tariff of Abominations" 40% rate that had so infuriated the South during the 1828-1832 eras (between 50 and 51% on iron goods). The election of a president that was Anti-Southern on all issues and politically associated with the New England industrialists, fanatics, and zealots brought about the Southern secession movement.

Re: Civil War [Re: TX_Birddog1L] #9032415 04/11/24 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TX_Birddog1L
It was not a tax but the tariff

1. TARIFF
Prior to the war about 75% of the money to operate the Federal Government was derived from the Southern States via an unfair sectional tariff on imported goods and 50% of the total 75% was from just 4 Southern states--Virginia-North Carolina--South Carolina and Georgia. Only 10%--20% of this tax money was being returned to the South. The Southern states were being treated as an agricultural colony of the North and bled dry. John Randolph of Virginia's remarks in opposition to the tariff of 1820 demonstrates that fact. The North claimed that they fought the war to preserve the Union but the New England Industrialists who were in control of the North were actually supporting preservation of the Union to maintain and increase revenue from the tariff. The industrialists wanted the South to pay for the industrialization of America at no expense to them. Revenue bills introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives prior to the War Between the States were biased, unfair and inflammatory to the South. Abraham Lincoln had promised the Northern industrialists that he would increase the tariff rate if he was elected president of the United States. Lincoln increased the rate to a level that exceeded even the "Tariff of Abominations" 40% rate that had so infuriated the South during the 1828-1832 eras (between 50 and 51% on iron goods). The election of a president that was Anti-Southern on all issues and politically associated with the New England industrialists, fanatics, and zealots brought about the Southern secession movement.



up

Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9032417 04/11/24 02:19 PM
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I think we'll go check it out tonight, I'll let john know how it goes.

Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9032466 04/11/24 03:35 PM
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No it was those damn evil whites in the south them evil men just wanted SLAVES! Don’t you know them evil white mans all had slaves? They were SLAVERS of SLAVES!

SLAVERY SLAVERY SLAVERY!

Ole Honest Abe saved the world from them doggone evil white slavers of the south, everybody knows that. Yup and that’s why all the whites owe everything they have to the African Americans. Them greedy whites and all their future generations need to give it up and go live in poverty, forever in perpetuity!

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Last edited by 10 Gauge; 04/11/24 03:40 PM.

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Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9032866 04/12/24 04:57 AM
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In the county I was born and raised in Northern Illinois, I estimated that 20% of the military aged male population died in the war. It's sobering to drive through the rural county seats in that area and see the memorials to the fallen soldiers in these little towns where there might be 20 names listed for WWII, 6 or 7 names for WWI, 4-5 for Vietnam, then 95 for the Civil War.

The impact on the communities and families must have been huge at that time, North & South


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Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9032870 04/12/24 05:16 AM
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Whammer a little history from my neck of the woods, be sure to read about the nine boys.

http://www.fayettecountyhistory.org/praha.htm


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Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9032910 04/12/24 11:16 AM
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It was okay, not what I was expecting. I wouldn't pay to see it.

Re: Civil War [Re: S.A. hunter] #9033040 04/12/24 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by S.A. hunter
It was okay, not what I was expecting. I wouldn't pay to see it.

I'm hearing "Purge" like in nature but with better acting, script, directing and bigger budget. Going to see later today. Enjoyed the Purge movies for what they were, a bit of fantasy...

Re: Civil War [Re: Buzzsaw] #9033059 04/12/24 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DQ Kid
Originally Posted by S.A. hunter
It was okay, not what I was expecting. I wouldn't pay to see it.

I'm hearing "Purge" like in nature but with better acting, script, directing and bigger budget. Going to see later today. Enjoyed the Purge movies for what they were, a bit of fantasy...


It's a kind of a mind experience, us against them, but they are us, and we are them.....there are basically two story lines.

The wife enjoyed it more then I did.

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