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China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
#9004986
02/13/24 04:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,185
Tbar
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,185 |
The Federal Income Tax/Military Spending thread got me thinking about this. Short sighted foreign & domestic policy has painted us into a corner with a shrinking military while China with their 100 year plan is on the move to be the #1 power in the future. Just read this article about how China is getting the world to pay for their military infrastructure expansion. China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t.While Chinese shipyards are thriving and primed to build at wartime rates, U.S. shipbuilding is in disarray China emerged as a global power by turning itself into the world’s factory floor. It is expanding that power, and its military might, with another striking industrial feat: becoming the world’s shipyard.
More than half of the world’s commercial shipbuilding output came from China last year—making it the top global shipmaker by a wide margin. The once-prolific shipyards of the West that helped forge empires, expand trade and win wars have shriveled. Europe accounts for just 5% of the world’s output, while the U.S. contributes next to nothing. Most of what China doesn’t build comes from South Korea and Japan......
Giant Chinese shipbuilding firms that crank out merchant ships for the world are often the same ones building warships for China’s navy. Their shipyards are thriving, with billion-dollar contracts pouring in not just for warfighting gray hulls but also for containerships, oil tankers and bulk carriers for shipping lines from China, the West and even Taiwan.
With their order books full for years to come, the shipyards have expanded, trained enormous pools of workers and built sprawling supply chains.
China’s military planners have leveraged all that to build up the world’s largest navy, in hull count—a force central to Xi’s greatest ambitions of projecting power overseas, protecting the sea lanes that connect China to the world and absorbing Taiwan.......
The major difference between the Chinese and American shipbuilding industrial bases is that “China benefits from a massive commercial shipbuilding workload,” Rear Adm. Thomas J. Anderson said to a congressional subcommittee in May, when he was the program executive officer for ships in the U.S. Navy. Meanwhile, he said, the U.S. government largely goes it alone, bearing all the costs of the ships and associated infrastructure.
“Clearly China’s commercial shipbuilding industry provides them a massive advantage when it comes to shipbuilding capacity,” he said.
In a protracted conflict, China’s shipyards would give its navy a significant upper hand. Sized to build at wartime rates, they would be able to quickly accelerate production, replace lost ships and repair damaged ones. That is a capability U.S. shipyards brought to the fight during World War II, building Allied vessels faster than German U-boats could sink them.
Today, America’s shipyards are struggling to keep up with peacetime demand. Submarines are bogged down by maintenance delays and new ones are behind schedule. The Navy, for instance, is expecting two new Virginia-class submarines a year, but is receiving the boats at the rate of 1.4, a Defense Department official said last year.......
There isn’t enough trained labor, dry docks are in short supply, and in the case of some critical components, only a handful of vendors are still standing......
When foreign companies pay the Chinese shipyard, a portion of those proceeds is very likely reinvested in the shipyard, said Funaiole. “If the piers and dry docks and assembly halls that are being invested in are also the piers and dry docks and assembly halls that are used to produce military vessels, how do you write that?”
To Shugart at the Center for a New American Security, this is the upshot: “All these countries that are buying ships from China are paying them to build the shipyards they would need to repair their fleet in wartime,” he said, adding, “It’s kind of hard to watch.”......
China’s navy fields 370 battle force ships, more than the U.S. Navy. That number is expected to rise to 435 by 2030. Its shipyards are building increasingly sophisticated warships, such as the large and well-equipped Renhai-class surface combatant. They have also built the world’s largest coast guard and fishing fleets, and an extensive merchant marine—adding to China’s sea power..........
The U.S. Navy is expected, meanwhile, to stay the same size or get smaller in the next several years from the present 292 hulls, retiring more ships than it commissions, before it starts to grow again. The logistics support and sealift fleet that helps the military is aging.......
https://www.wsj.com/world/china/chi...-americas-arent-d6f004dd?mod=djem10point
Make America Great Again
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Tbar]
#9004992
02/13/24 04:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 69,214
NORML as can be
^^Cut the Cord^^
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^^Cut the Cord^^
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 69,214 |
Better start learning Mandarin.
(R-TX) .-- " TCNN CURL CRLB VFF VRNO AYR SNDL CGC TLRY MSOS "
_=====___=________==-
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Tbar]
#9005099
02/13/24 08:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 8,149
Homer Jay
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 8,149 |
CCP propaganda
China does not have a legit blue-water navy.
"Like a slice of fried gold!"
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Homer Jay]
#9005111
02/13/24 09:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,185
Tbar
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,185 |
CCP propaganda
China does not have a legit blue-water navy. ??? WSJ, Niharika Mandhana sources: Center For Strategic and International Studies, Congressional Research Service Clarkson Research etc
Make America Great Again
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Tbar]
#9005124
02/13/24 09:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,156
kry226
The General
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The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,156 |
The Federal Income Tax/Military Spending thread got me thinking about this. Short sighted foreign & domestic policy has painted us into a corner with a shrinking military while China with their 100 year plan is on the move to be the #1 power in the future. Just read this article about how China is getting the world to pay for their military infrastructure expansion. China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t.While Chinese shipyards are thriving and primed to build at wartime rates, U.S. shipbuilding is in disarray China emerged as a global power by turning itself into the world’s factory floor. It is expanding that power, and its military might, with another striking industrial feat: becoming the world’s shipyard.
More than half of the world’s commercial shipbuilding output came from China last year—making it the top global shipmaker by a wide margin. The once-prolific shipyards of the West that helped forge empires, expand trade and win wars have shriveled. Europe accounts for just 5% of the world’s output, while the U.S. contributes next to nothing. Most of what China doesn’t build comes from South Korea and Japan......
Giant Chinese shipbuilding firms that crank out merchant ships for the world are often the same ones building warships for China’s navy. Their shipyards are thriving, with billion-dollar contracts pouring in not just for warfighting gray hulls but also for containerships, oil tankers and bulk carriers for shipping lines from China, the West and even Taiwan.
With their order books full for years to come, the shipyards have expanded, trained enormous pools of workers and built sprawling supply chains.
China’s military planners have leveraged all that to build up the world’s largest navy, in hull count—a force central to Xi’s greatest ambitions of projecting power overseas, protecting the sea lanes that connect China to the world and absorbing Taiwan.......
The major difference between the Chinese and American shipbuilding industrial bases is that “China benefits from a massive commercial shipbuilding workload,” Rear Adm. Thomas J. Anderson said to a congressional subcommittee in May, when he was the program executive officer for ships in the U.S. Navy. Meanwhile, he said, the U.S. government largely goes it alone, bearing all the costs of the ships and associated infrastructure.
“Clearly China’s commercial shipbuilding industry provides them a massive advantage when it comes to shipbuilding capacity,” he said.
In a protracted conflict, China’s shipyards would give its navy a significant upper hand. Sized to build at wartime rates, they would be able to quickly accelerate production, replace lost ships and repair damaged ones. That is a capability U.S. shipyards brought to the fight during World War II, building Allied vessels faster than German U-boats could sink them.
Today, America’s shipyards are struggling to keep up with peacetime demand. Submarines are bogged down by maintenance delays and new ones are behind schedule. The Navy, for instance, is expecting two new Virginia-class submarines a year, but is receiving the boats at the rate of 1.4, a Defense Department official said last year.......
There isn’t enough trained labor, dry docks are in short supply, and in the case of some critical components, only a handful of vendors are still standing......
When foreign companies pay the Chinese shipyard, a portion of those proceeds is very likely reinvested in the shipyard, said Funaiole. “If the piers and dry docks and assembly halls that are being invested in are also the piers and dry docks and assembly halls that are used to produce military vessels, how do you write that?”
To Shugart at the Center for a New American Security, this is the upshot: “All these countries that are buying ships from China are paying them to build the shipyards they would need to repair their fleet in wartime,” he said, adding, “It’s kind of hard to watch.”......
China’s navy fields 370 battle force ships, more than the U.S. Navy. That number is expected to rise to 435 by 2030. Its shipyards are building increasingly sophisticated warships, such as the large and well-equipped Renhai-class surface combatant. They have also built the world’s largest coast guard and fishing fleets, and an extensive merchant marine—adding to China’s sea power..........
The U.S. Navy is expected, meanwhile, to stay the same size or get smaller in the next several years from the present 292 hulls, retiring more ships than it commissions, before it starts to grow again. The logistics support and sealift fleet that helps the military is aging.......
https://www.wsj.com/world/china/chi...-americas-arent-d6f004dd?mod=djem10pointNo lies detected...
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Tbar]
#9005136
02/13/24 10:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,503
reeltexan
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,503 |
China is broke and they're going to be a lot more broke when Trump is elected.
"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under." Ronald Reagan
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: reeltexan]
#9005157
02/13/24 10:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 19,289
Biscuit
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 19,289 |
China is broke and they're going to be a lot more broke when Trump is elected.
That’s a fact
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Tbar]
#9005200
02/13/24 11:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,211
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,211 |
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Tbar]
#9005493
02/14/24 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,248
DeRico
Mobius 1
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Mobius 1
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,248 |
Chinese made products
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: DeRico]
#9005534
02/14/24 06:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,070
Cool Mo D
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,070 |
Chinese made products I think we have some chinese made products around here in the house somewhere!
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Tbar]
#9006248
02/16/24 12:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,744
psycho0819
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,744 |
Those yards would be craters if they ever became a real threat. We've fought a protracted war before.
Tolerance is the virtue of a man without conviction.
The end of the world began the day it was created, and life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Tbar]
#9006263
02/16/24 12:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,797
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,797 |
Our B1 Bombers can fly around the world and deliver nuclear weapons without ever stopping to refuel. And then return to the point of origin.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Tbar]
#9006316
02/16/24 01:33 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,338
Dave Davidson
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,338 |
China is broke? Source please
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: psycho0819]
#9006330
02/16/24 01:47 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031 |
Those yards would be craters if they ever became a real threat. We've fought a protracted war before. Not under FJB.
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: reeltexan]
#9006338
02/16/24 01:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,723
tigger
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,723 |
Trump love it when it runs sideways and under 14
Tigger If it isn't white it is not a birddog.
KC Lying is lying. Don't bitch about one doing it and condone another. That's called hypocrisy. _________________
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: NORML as can be]
#9006340
02/16/24 02:01 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,870
Grit
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,870 |
Better start learning Mandarin. If they take over, will I have to learn Mandarin in order to eat Chinese food?
Garrett
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: tigger]
#9006351
02/16/24 02:28 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031 |
Trump love it when it runs sideways and under 14 Can you complete a [censored] sentence please? and if your comment is in reference to what I think it is, YOUR kid sniffing weird comment making totally [censored] illiterate daughter molesting self enriching America hating brain dead pedophile president is the one you should be focused on. Not the orange man.
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Tbar]
#9006903
02/17/24 04:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,177
Bee'z
The Beedazzler
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The Beedazzler
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,177 |
America spends more on unhealthcare than anybody. I am not that scared to be honest and that is the one hope my tax dollars go towards.
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Re: China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9006923
02/17/24 04:37 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,851
DannyB
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,851 |
China is broke? Source please There are a lot of links about China's Evergrande real estate debacle, just not the link I wanted to find. It is possibly crashing the Chinese financial system. However, US banks, financial brokerages, hedge funds, etc. don't want us to know that because of the collateral damage to our financial system. Years ago there was a saying in our financial markets that went something like, "When China sneezes we catch a cold." China is doing more than sneezing right now.
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