This makes a ton of sense to me. I do not list as such, but I also don’t care if others do.

I'm with delrico. While I have never asked a buyer to complete or been asked as a buyer to complete, the reason is all you guys I have dealt with over the years have been great regular dudes on the up and up. However, there are always situations where a buyer or a seller gives you hesitation/reason to warrant one. And if that buyer or seller does not want to deal with the bill of sale, then no need for the transaction. Ideally that is decided before anyone meets.

Interesting topic…I’ve always done whatever the seller wants regarding a BOS/ID. As for selling…most of my selling has been online and went thru an FFL due to being out of state or to buddies.

Truth be told…our stuff is out there, I’m done being paranoid about it. The best thing you can do today is lock all three credit reports and not worry about it. Yes, it’s a pain but it’s about the only true protection you have.

At the end of the day when it comes down to private party transactions you should simply do what you're comfortable with.

An acquaintance of mine bought some Taurus 9mm pistols years ago with the intent of everyone in his household having the same gun. He took them to the range to shoot them and discoveed that they were not very good guns. He listed them on the Texas gun trader and one person bought them all. He was happy because he bought the guns on sale and sold them at retail profiting about 80 bucks per gun. Fast forward a few years and two ATF agents knocked on his door and said that they wanted to talk to him about the guns that he had sold. Apparently they wound up in Massachusetts and had been used in shootings. They questioned him about who he knew in Massachusetts and provided photographs of numerous people none of whom he knew. At the end of the conversation they just insisted that he sign a paper acknowledging that he understood that dealing guns without a license is a criminal offense and they told him exactly what he was allowed to do and not allowed to do when it came to selling a firearm. They brought an agreement with them that said that they wouldn't prosecute him if he signed the papers acknowledging that dealing without a license was a criminal offense. He signed the papers and that was the end of it. This happened well before Biden came into office but I don't remember exactly when. I suspect that if the same thing were to happen today he would be spending some time behind bars.

In I believe 1991 I sold a glock g20 to a man that was a customer/friend of mine and he shot an Allen and a McKinney police officer with it on the side of the road during a traffic stop before he was killed by a state trooper that just happened to be driving by. I went to the police and told them that it was my gun and they really didn't care and were uninterested in where it came from. A month or two later maybe more an ATF agent contacted me and asked about it and I told him that I had sold it to the shooter. He just wrote it down in a little notebook that he stuck back in his shirt pocket and told me to have a nice day.

But did you have his name or address or heaven forbid, please tell me you didn’t have his phone number. If you had his email you may still be locked up! 😂

I don't sign BOA and I don't ask for BOA.

If I see an ad requiring either, I move along and buy elsewhere.

Email wasn't a thing back then. I had his pager number. His name was Scott Olberholtzer; I am not quite sure how to exactly spell his last name.

The fact of the matter is, ever since the Brady Bill was passed, the government has been keeping records on transfers. If I recall, they can keep records of transfers up to 20 years. So they may not have a gun registry, but they for sure have a record of transfers. As far as I know, it dates back up to 20 years.

To be real honest with you, I very seriously doubt if anyone in any government agency is tossing any kind of records on gun ownership. Not even after the 20 year mark. Especially not the ATF, they exist to infringe. Once they have that record they are keeping it.

Based on that, I totally understand why you might want a bill of sale. You want some kind of record that proves a gun is gone in case it is used in a crime in the future. And I suppose you could falsify a bill of sale to give them as evidence you no longer own a given weapon. You could probably serve time in a federal prison for falsifying official documents, too.

My preference? I don’t want to buy from somebody that requires a bill of sale. But if it is a good deal, I will go theough with it.

Why not transfer it through an FFL? I don’t want to pay the FFL fee. That ia the whole purpose of traveling to pick up a new rifle. FFL fees range from 20 bucks, all the way up to $80 in my experience and that $80 FFL fee was way before the last spike in inflation. I passed on that.

Local guy here transfers for $20 and he is a super good dude. Can’t beat that.

So based on all that, if your buyer seems a little shady or for whatever reason are afraid a gun will be traced back to you, use an FFL. Otherwise skip the bill of sale. My DG coupon receipt.

blkt2, by signing that document your Taurus 9mm friend opened himself up to possible civil suits brought on by the Boston victims families. Since he did nothing illegal, why would he sign such a document in the first place? Pressure?

He's an acquaintance, not a friend. I didn't know him when this happened but he keeps the papers in his desk drawer and he'll show them to anyone that wants to see them. He didn't deliberately break a law and simply did it out of naivete. Filing civil suits across state lines poses its own set of problems that most PI lawyers won't mess with. The guy also doesn't have anything to take. He lives on disability in an old falling down house in DeSoto. From what he said it was gang members killing gang members; not exactly the type to sue or live long enough to make it all the way through a case if they do.

I used to really believe in background checks and certain gun control measures, but I have lost faith in the government and it’s agencies to keep the constitution in mind as they execute their duties. There are people so ambitious they would completely sacrifice their integrity if they think it will serve them well in their careers and i have dealt with a few of them. Some, very high ranking government officials that will end your career and destroy your life and many of your peers to make themselves look better on paper. Everything in the government is political right down to the bottom scumbag that works for the IRS.

I don’t want anything that the government could use to track me down as a owner of any weapons at all. But I have done enough “transfers” in my life that it does not matter. Plus being a member of multiple online hunting and fishing forums.

At this point it doesn’t matter. If they come to confiscate guns they are going to just raid everyone that has done a few transfers, they already know who has guns. We gave them the information like 40 years ago.

I am paranoid about it and you should be worried.

If you are worried about the government tracking your gun purchases buying a used one from an FFL if they bought it from a private individual makes it very hard to trace. Buying one in a parking lot also makes them very hard to trace if not impossible.

I am over it at this point, they know who has and who does not have. No way around it, at this point I would almost prefer to sell through an FFL just so when they come to kick in doors and take my guns from my wife while i am on the road, they don’t demand the ones I sold and attempt to imprison me for them. This is seriously where my mind goes.

And sure I would fight over it. But realistically I would not be home and my wife would take them right straight to my safe. It is a scary thought. But it is more realistic than you think. ATF is calling people to verify gun ownership, etc.

Unless they’re willing to go to an FFL for a transfer, that’s how I’m going to avoid selling a gun to a prohibited person. Part of the problem anti-gunners have with our side is the “eff you, freedom!” misguided attitude that any sort of voluntary responsible behavior is equal to support of confiscation before interning us in concentration camps.

The preparations have been made. That is all I am saying. I don’t blame you for using the FFL though.

For me it is really pretty simple: (1) I ALWAYS talk to the buyer ahead of time unless I know them. If they have been on here with a track record I am usually good. (2) If I have trust issues I "may" suggest the FFL route and especially if long distance. (3) Had two or three with REAL trust issues. Didn't sell.

"Better safe than sorry??? Absolutely not. If you do have a bill of sale and try to use it in your own defense a prosecutor will turn it against you in a heartbeat. 'If you were so concerned this person was going to use it in a crime or a felon and you had them sign a BOS why did you not use an FFL to run a check?' I would not want to have that argument used against me in Austin or Houston."

There are thousands of legal hypotheticals like this out there in the gun world (many from people who don't know a damn thing about the law) almost none of which get used in court, ever. Can you point me towards a single bit of case law or a single example of this being used?