I will be "helping" an uncle put together a 308 fun package. It will be a Palmetto State basic PA10 in 308. I'd like to load him both something fun to shoot and a hunting load. Trying to keep it fun and affordable for the retiree. I'm going to give him some brass to help with cost.
Looking for an open discussion on anything related to this. As some know, I love 308 and loading for it but exclusively did it for bolt guns. Hoping to learn something I don't know or if there is something special to consider.

That said, some specific opinions I am looking for are on:
1. Powder Choice - Tac is my first thought but other available options I have are WC846, SW match rifle, IMR 4895 (this was a panic buy and I don't know what to do with it), CFE 223. Feel free to suggest others. Hunting bullet will probably be 150gr and the fun load a 168gr.

2. I like the 150gr Hornaday interlock bullet for the hunting round. There is a Boat tail version and a flat. Is there a difference? I'd lean toward accuracy so I assume boat tail. This will be the hunting load.
Feel free to suggest a good, cost effective 308 bullet as I will be buying these specific for him. I was going to start with the Hornady 168 bthp match for the fun load as it's economical and I have had good success with it before.

I kill hogs and coyotes with a 155 gr Sierra Tipped Match King atop IMR-8208.

Therefore your IMR-4895 is an appropriate burn rate powder for the project.

A modest crimp is appropriate. Or, what I do is run a bushing die that makes for a .005" tension. I.D. around .303"

You can attempt to load -.005" jump to lands, but I bet free bore and magazine length will prevent it. So you are probably going to be loading to magazine length.

What Hodgdon says is published maximum, probably really is maximum. When I was doing my load development, I started seeing pressure signs about .6 to .9 gr below published maximum. But I had already seen a good shooting load prior to pressure signs.

16" barrel + suppressor = 2600 fps MV on my rifle.

As always. do your own research and work up to listed safe values.
In my testing with an 18" .308 AR-10 this is where I landed.
If you don't have or cant get a powder, work with what you have and enjoy the experience in developing your own recipe. An accurate load is better than a fast one.

168 HPBT
44.0 Varget 168 HPBT 2.800 2590 fps
46.0 CFE 223 168 HPBT 2.800 2733 fps

150 SST
49.0 CFE 223 150 SST 2.735 2851 fps
44.5 IMR 8208 XBR 150 SST 2.735 2806 fps

thanks for the confirmation. I will at least start with the IMR 4895 because I have no designated use for it otherwise. I'm now going to plan on crimping as well. Hopefully this Lee die will do fine. I don't own any neck or bushing type dies. Haha, actually thanks to you JG I just get a good quality FL and keep resizing pretty simple.

There's a good chance that I'll shoot more rounds through this rifle than uncle so I'll plan on giving cfe 223 a shot as well. I really list the speeds you are listing. I actually don't want to use my precious Varget stock for this. It's for my 308.

If you are ever north of Houston, near Groesbeck, I have about half a pound or a bit more of Varget. You can have it. I have no use for it, since all my favorite rifle loads use other powders. If you are ever heading to Dallas, just divert my way.

Either (H or IMR) 4895 and 8208 (my fav) will work. The 150 is great, 168 Amax is fine. Mid range loads (2400 fps) will probably work the gas OK. I just use the Lee 308 FCD in mine, no problem. Light taper crimp would be OK too. Oh - use the flat base one. BT is for long range shooting.
Powders, Varget, AR comp, 8208xbr, 4895, blc(2), H335, 3031, etc. All make enough gas.

Look at the loads for Service Rifle, not fast but usually accurate. Avoid the slower powders ( 4064 and Varget should be considered the slowest you should use ) as the gas port pressure will still be too high and its hard on both the brass and extractors. My favorite loads with a 168 gr BT were usually in the 2550-2600 fps range. Below are run in an M1A and 2 AR10s.

loads I used extensively:

39.5 gr IMR 3031 with a 168gr BT
41.5 gr H4895 with a 168gr BT

43.7 gr WC846S with Hornady 150 FMJ or SST (great light load without a lot of blowback on a suppressed 308 gas gun) Similar POI to the above loads with a lighter bullet out to 300 yards. 100% functional in several gas guns.

Note, the WC846s from Chad seemed to run faster then BL-C(2) so it met my criteria for burn rate.

I've had luck using WC846S I bought from Chad using 43.3-43.7 with Hornady 150gr interlocks. 2.795 OAL with a light crimp in Lake City brass

Sounds like my 3rd load. BTW mine were also LC brass and I used CCI #34 primers if it matters. COAL was set to fit the shortest of the magazines, light crimp with Lee collet crimp. I ended up loading 200 after the load workup for a shoot with friends. The guy with the suppressor on his gun shot a cloverleaf at 75 years off the railing of the deck we were shooting on. He promptly confiscated all the remaining rounds I had. He later said the SST were hell on hogs.

The load I developed to use in my Ruger SFAR is 41.5gr IMR 4895, Starline LRP Brass, CCI #34 primer, 168 AMAX, 2440 FPS from SFAR 16" barrel. Mild load that shoots and functions well, great hog killer.

IMR4895 will do fine, 8208xbr or AR comp were my favorites. Either 150 or 168gr bullets. Your biggest chore will be getting the gas right and proper cycling. Mil trigger is just OK, there are better. My pig load was FB as no sots over 200 yds. GKs PSA 308 wouldn't eject/cycle - swapped my upper, changed bolts, mags, cut turns off the spring - he eventually bought mine. Yes, he had an AGB on it.

I am going through the same process as a first time reloader for an Ar-10 in 308. I am utilizing LC brass, 150gr Hornady FMJ's and CFE223 for my initial run. I was wondering if anyone is using a set of SB dies when reloading for the AR-10 or does it matter? I already have both types of dies but I really do not see much mention of it in the research I have done as compared to the importance of a crimp.
Thanks,

-Z

@Ziggy, Depends on your chamber and the chambers the brass was shot in. I use standard RCBS dies and it worked for 20 years until I bought some machinegun fired .308 and it was just a tad too tight in a Tikka after it was processed. Ended up running them through a body die because I was not going to take them apart to try to resize them. It was so close prior to the extra sizing but closing the bolt was just a tad too hard. But they fit in an AR10 and an M1A even before the extra processing. Possibly SB dies would have made a difference with the Tikka.

Size a couple and see if the bolt will close on the brass. It should close even if you "ride" it home.

You need head space gauges.

And you need some fired brass from your chamber.

Measure your brass and experiment if your sizing die can bump the shoulder back from your fired brass measurement.

For what little it's worth, my plan was to full size all the brass that is going to be used for this AR. I read/heard that basically bottoming out a standard FL die will return the brass to shortest possible while still in spec. I'm even buying a second 308 FL die because the one I have is perfectly set for the 2-3 thousandths bump for my main bolt action 308 target rifle.

Thanks! Sounds like I am set, just need to break-in the barrel and secure the brass. I will get the measurements from there.

KR, I will be doing the same. I will use the FL SB dies for the AR and keep the standard FL dies for my bolt, minimize the hassle of the back and forth.

Thanks,

-Z

Barrel Break-In:

Clean it, shoot it.

Clean it again when it tells you it needs it. That could be in 30 rounds, or it could be in 300 rounds.

What I mean by tell you it needs it, is it's throwing fliers that you can't explain, on a hand load.

I was full length sizing 308 WIN brass shot in my AR but I started getting case head separation after a few firings so I started bumping my brass .005 based on feedback from JG and others on this forum. My SFAR runs fine on the brass bumped .005" but yours may not. Just have to experiment.

I mostly shoot LC MG fired brass (typically a large chamber), standard FL Hornady or RCBS die, no problem. Just use plenty of case lube. I use a Wilson gauge My press is a SS Lee so I check a couple to make sure HS is right and if the case needs trimming.

huh, think i need to change my plans. I just measured the first 20 spent cases from factory ammo. It varied more than I thought. But the shortest happens to be the same as my target rifle, which the spent case headspace varies much less. Suck a prepped case, no primer, for my bolt 308 into the AR and just slammed the bolt on the back of the upper. seemed to close just fine to me. I hit the forward assist a couple good times too. I measured the brass with my comparator before and after. no change. So i am guessing that this bump sizing is good enough to cycle reliably. Is that safe to assume?
I hate disassembling ammo.

If you are bump sizing brass for a semi auto, you need to verify the case dimensions of the shoulder (head space) and the case web area on fired brass and compare that to your sized brass. These are the 2 areas that will cause a problem chambering in an AR. After completing your bump sizing, I would take a Sharpie and mark up a case or two, and slide it in carefully into the chamber manually, and close the bolt on it. I would look for any scratch marks in those 2 areas. Bump sizing brass is certainly an advanced reloading technique, and can cause issues in a semi auto.

It would not be how I would size my brass and load my ammo for a semi auto. There's too much work into doing it, and you won't know if you have a problem until you get chambering issues and failure to eject problems (from the brass sticking in the chamber and causing hard extraction issues). The bump sizing is fine for a bolt gun, since you are manually chambering the round (and can force the bolt closed, if needed) and you can feel if the case is chambering hard. You can bump size bolt gun brass .002 to .004" or so and be fine. But for a semi auto, you need more clearance than that, which puts you near a regular FL size anyway. It just wouldn't be a method I would do for my AR's.

I'm sure you've seen the trouble you mention.

For my personal AR's, I haven't. But, I bump the shoulders .005" as opposed to .002" for a bolt action.

As far as bullets are concerned, if you try 168 hpbt match and your rifle likes them don't be afraid to use them for both hunting and target shooting. I've been shooting pigs and whitetail for several years now with the SMK 168's and they are devastating on animals. I know some will argue they are a "match" bullet, bla bla bla... Haven't had an animal take a step after the shot. Save you the trouble and expense of working up two different types of loads.

I take the same approach, but I've found that there seems to be a pretty fine line between enough bump and NOT enough bump. One night while sitting in a blind with an AR15 chambered in 6mm AR (the 6mm ARC's daddy, if you ask me) I had some hogs appear a hundred yards away and had the whole sounder dead to rights. I had chambered a round long before they got there, of course, and had the gun on "safe." I let the safety off, aimed, and pulled the trigger and heard a loud click. I cycled the action, letting the bolt slam home with a loud "clack," thinking the hogs would evaporate but I really had no choice but they stuck around, surprisingly enough. When I pulled the trigger again, all I got was another "click." I went through this two or three more times, and while I am sure the hogs could hear it they did not react. I finally got one round to chamber and we were off to the races. I tell the story because it's good for a laugh and it serves as an example of what can go wrong (or at least one of so many things...I know many of them) and that it will bite you at the most inopportune time, typically.

In an attempt to be certain that my sized brass will actually fit the chamber of an AR, I'll separate the upper from the lower and drop a sized case into the chamber. Then I stick my pinky into the back end of the carrier and see how easily (or not) I can get the carrier to cam the bolt closed on the case. It's not something I do often because once I get a die set I secure the locking ring and do not mess with it anymore unless it becomes apparent that a little more tweaking is needed. Measuring the movement of the shoulder during die setup is a great idea and it helps to avoid errors that cost time, but I ultimately go with how it feels when the bolt locks into the lugs whether on a bolt gun or something like an AR. I won't accept a hard to close bolt just because a measurement *seems* to be telling me I've got it where I want it.

I have one I built on an LR308 lower and it is one of my favorite guns for just running around shooting and having fun (3gun and the like) - I don't generally hunt with it, but that's simply because I have other preferences for hunting not because it wouldn't make an excellent hunting rifle. I always FL size. I shoot a ton of the Hornady 150 GR SP's with it... Only powders that you mentioned that I've used with it are IMR4895 and CFE223 and I haven't had any issues with either, they both work well. The powders I've been using most recently are SW Tactical and VIHT N140 and I have great loads worked up for both. I also have some old loads worked up on WIN748 that works great.

As a firm believer in the position that what works for my gun isn't necessarily going to be the same for your gun, I'll spare you the specifics on powder charges for my loads but I will say that I don't load anywhere near maximum... closer to mid-range of the published Hornady min-max data - my lead for this gun tends to fly between 2500 - 2600 FPS.