Smokey, I don’t understand your last sentence above.
Lot of good comments I haven’t been able to stay caught up on and address specifically.
I will say comments have been made and I agree completely that even considering allowing some bucks to reach the very age that’s max rack is not realistic for most hunters. Many reasons for that. I’m certainly not advocating anyone do it. I’m just soliciting comments about what that age may be for max rack so I can make decisions myself with our situation.
A progression of pics of a deer over years is great to look at for this and I’ve got one coming up for y’all to ponder.

Again - in my humble opinion the hunters are the MOST important factor at the end of the day - everybody better be on board with the program or all other efforts become secondary and worthless -

Ok free, numbers are not your thing. Most deer make a jump at 4. After their skeletal frame has reached its full size all the bone they produce can go to their antlers. After that most slow down on bone production and make small incremental gains. Some have the genetics to keep making more bone than their peers. They continue to make substantial antler jumps annually. That is reflected in their headgear. These are the deer we notice and watch. This tendency holds up better over time in the deer with the genetic makeup to do it. Others stagnate and look much the same year to year. They are not the ones that get big. If you carry the ones that don’t get big till 7 it will skew your data to the low side. It is what tlk is referring to with his comment about culling. You have a finite amount of high value browse in every habitat scenario. When it is in low supply all the deer to some degree then transition to second choice, lower value browse. Those big mature bucks are going to consume at least 12 pounds of browse/day. Carrying them all to 7 puts more pressure on the habitat. Consequently all the deer have less high value browse per animal available to them. Understand that in the winter you are not growing much browse. Until spring green up the deer are subsisting on what is warehoused in the available habitat. (This is what they lean on to recover from the rigors of the rut). When the bucks come out of winter in less than optimum condition it impacts all of the antlers. Good genetics and bad genetics alike. It is what STX has stated so many times in the past about removing mouths. To make the most of your bucks you also have to make the most of the available habitat.

I’ve spoke up way more than I usually do in these discussions. I’m about done.

Spot on.

Smokey, I understand everything you are saying and I’m very good at numbers, but I don’t follow how the quoted below sentence fits. It seems the opposite and maybe you mistyped. “Which” “management philosophy” are you referring to that LOWERS your percentage of positive response?
“I am also convinced applying that management philosophy across the board would significantly lower your percentage of positive response at 7.”

And, Smokey, I agree you have been involved more on this thread than you usually do and I appreciate it. Take a break if need be.

If you let all the bucks live till age 7, you will be disappointed. At times I have a gift for being misunderstood.

Maybe it’s my English and not my Math. Maybe I got it.
Maybe you are saying by allowing TOO MANY older bucks to go through(stockpiling and not culling) that you keep too many mouths which is counter productive. I agree with that but If that’s not your point then I’m back to lost.

Well durn, we typed at same time but it looks like all is well.
Now both us old guys need to hit the hay.

That's really cool. And kinda made me sad...

I’ve got history with this buck for 3 years counting this year. I have both sheds for the first year so I know what he scores then.
Should be interesting for y’all to try to age and score him for each year and relate to this max rack discussion. Did he get better or worse and at what age? I don’t take much from a sample size of one but interesting none the less. Remember, we dont feed protein so that may factor into the body/age look.

2021- 5x5 with couple small kickers(4” total)

2022- 5x6 short right side but had the extra typ pt



2023- 6x5 at some point broke half rg1 and half lg3

Looks 4.5-5.5-6.5

I’m trash at field judging score so not gonna try

Free, I'd have ancient history with that guy because he'd be full of a lead diet, lol....

First pic looks like a fluffed up 3.5yo but i am guessing the pic is post rut and he is a little older.
So i will go 4.5 in first thru 6.5 this year. I also know the area holds some of those leggy bucks and those can really be deceiving on aging.

Score-wise, he is about a 150 class in first pic, and drops some second year, then this year he picked up more. Not shocking considering last season had sporadic rain in spring that really dropped off in the summer so finishing range condition was not great. This year there was more timely rain to give better nutrition thru the growing season.
He could be better next year if he survives, but he also may drop again. He sure is pretty this year. I dont see him blowing up to be a 200+ buck but i could see him pushing high 70’s to mid 80’s if we have a great spring/summer. That is the big IF. He is a solid mid-high 160’s buck this year (adding in the busted off part), so i could see him being shot this year.

But looking at averages, most 5.5-6.5 yo bucks are not putting on 20-25% more antler (to get bigger than 180’ class), its more like 10-15%. So figure if he is 6.5, then you might be looking at a really pretty 180” buck. If he is already 7.5 (and one could make the argument he is) then you might be looking at a similar 10-15% drop (on average).

This is why ear tags are so helpful for deer management. You know how old a deer is without question and you know by law of averages which deer is likely to get bigger vs smaller and which are the lower quadrant of their age class, etc. Hard to do ear tags where you hunt tho.

Double AC, you need to get into the field scoring game. It’s fun.
TXBuc, Thanks for your comments. For what it’s worth, Im not trying to get them to 180/200 but I’ll take it when it might happen.
DQ, what’s up with you? You have got to be hands down the most prolific poster on age/score threads and you cant give me an estimate….? I figure you must be busy. Maybe with so many pics over 3 years you feel the need to take your time with a good estimate. Cmon man, Im waiting on you…..

The bigger question is does that buck get bigger next year or does he get smaller?

What are the odds it gets bigger vs smaller and how?

Does a deer like that follow BOBO's rule (I know he didn't come up with it but was the first to post it in this thread) of thirds?
Or does a buck like this have a higher chance of getting bigger?

6.5 this year 158-162 and I'm being conservative

I watched a 175 inch LF buck that was 5 years old. Was very tempting to shoot him but I let him walk. The next year (a total drought year) he added 21 inches - I shot him and he qualified for B & C book

I know this - NOBODY knows what the chances are of a deer getting bigger or going backwards. Too many factors involved. But when in doubt give the deer a pass and hope he grows. A dead deer never grows another inch.

I saw and took video of a 9 point 175 inch buck. We had him at 5 years old so I passed as hard as it was to do. Following year he added 21 inches in a totally drought year. He qualified for B&C and I look at him every day in my home office. I never have regretted passing on him.

It’s fun and I’m decent enough at it on the deer at our place where a big deer is 140-150, I just haven’t been around enough 140+ deer in person though to be able to accurately scale up to that next size class

Beautiful buck and what you said is true, they never grow another inch once shot. It is amazing that deer put on 21” in one drought year, do you have pics of him the year before he was shot? Normal/average growth patterns are 10-15% annually from after 4.5 thru 6.5 yo, so assuming the buck was a 175” buck at 5.5, adding 15% gets you right at 22”, the important thing there is aging him at 5.5. Having three years of history with a buck and seeing the seesaw growth of him the last couple years its hard to say this one (free’s) will grow 20+” but i could see him putting on some NT stuff like yours has or something. The buck FR has shown is a great example of law of averages, decent buck first year who dropped a little then bounced back up.

The bigger question at hand is was your deer fed free choice protein or was this off a non-fed location. We all know feeding protein can mitigate a lot of drought issues. I don’t want to imply anything wrong with feeding, as i do it myself, but in the discussion at hand, we are talking about a non-fed herd subject to just natural browse and some food plot in the winter. So it may be an apples to oranges comparison.


Btw, this is a good discussion, lets keep it going as best we can.

I have a video of him at age 5 and scoring 175 - will try to find it and post. The shed hanging on my mount is what we found when he was the 175 and was his right side. We feed protein free choice so of course that helped with his growth.

-Bobo, thanks for your score estimate. I hope we can get some others estimates. I’ll give the hint that the first year his sheds score 155(18” spread.)

-TxBuc, thanks for your continued posts and insight.

-tlk, glad you got involved in the thread. You have as much experience letting “mature” bucks walk as anyone I know. Would love to see any examples of more than one year with a mature buck.

Anyone else feel free to post any pics of a mature buck from one year to the next. Keep in mind the thread is about gaining insight into the age a buck may reach his max rack. I know there is no right answer cause there’s too many variables but want to explore some percentages/odds/likely hood or non, etc.

Took a look at all of the bucks we've had on camera the past few seasons that we have pics of with multiple seasons of at maturity. I included their age, typical frame and/or total scoreable tines, and a plus or minus on whether they put on or lost inches, as well as their living status or other relevant notes. I won't include the pictures here for sake of post length. To summarize, the majority of deer put on inches up until 6.5 then it was pretty split whether they added or lost inches at 7.5

Buck 1:
4.5, 7pt
5.5, 8pt, +
6.5, 8pt, +
7.5, No Pics, Assumed Dead

Buck 2:
4.5, 8pt
5.5, 8pt, +, Drought
6.5, 7pt plus 3" G2 kicker, -, Drought, Alive

Buck 3:
4.5, 6pt
5.5, 4pt, +
6.5, 6pt, +
7.5, 7pt, +, Drought
8.5, 6pt, -, Drought, Alive

Buck 4:
4.5, 10pt plus 1" G2 kicker
5.5, 10pt, +
6.5, 10pt, +
7.5, 9pt plus 4" G2 kicker, +
8.5, 9pt, -, Shot

Buck 5:
6.5, 8pt
7.5, 8pt, -
8.5, 8pt, -, Died of natural causes

Buck 6
4.5, 8pt
5.5, No Pics
6.5, 8pt, +
7.5, 8pt, -, Shot

Buck 7:
5.5, 8pt
6.5, 8pt, +
7.5, 8pt, +, Drought, Shot

Buck 8:
4.5, 10pt plus 1" base kicker
5.5, 10pt plus 1" base kicker plus 1" G2 kicker, +
6.5, 10pt, -, Drought
7.5, 10pt, - Drought, Alive

Buck 9:
4.5, 8pt
5.5, 9pt, +
6.5, 9pt, +
7.5, 10pt, -, Drought
8.5, No Pics, Assumed Dead

Double AC, that is some great info. I really appreciate you taking time to post all that. I hope you will feel free to post pics. I would love to see them. Understand if its too time consuming.

Well, this thread just took a turn to the world of reality for me personally.
This season I have passed good shots on 5 bucks 150 on up that we all felt were 6 and approved to hunt. One was bow killed Friday and way bigger than I thought.
So now I see a brand new buck yesterday and he’s big enough for me. Issue is I’m torn on him being even 6 much less 7. With no history on a buck it is just super hard to age on hoof.
And Bobo you’re over your pm limit.