I'll go as far to say that because of AR's in many counties, the average hunter now has a much better chance to shoot a deer of notable size, whereas before they would have to spend time and money to travel, access and hunt a deer of the same caliber. It eveled the playing field in many ways.

Not sure of the future. On one hand, I like the idea of letting them grow. But, I’ve seen a lot of big bodied healthy bucks that will never make AR. And those guys will dang sure breed quicker than a younger deer with wider antlers but smaller bodies. I know which one would win a butt whipping contest.

Give it a chance.

Exactly how I feel. I like to hunt , I respect my kill and use it well I don’t waste it. I appreciate it and am thankful for it It’s aggravating to have to pass on deer that I’d be perfectly happy with And these stats and suck I just don’t put much stock in , tbey also say corns not good for a deer too but if that’s so why is it I can go hunt Nebraska or other corn heavy farm lands and the deer there are if a superior weight and health …. If corns not goo tbey sure don’t know it. They’re doing pretty good on it.

Bucks are the most sexually active at 3 and 4 years old...which is a few years younger than what is commonly believed.

That was taken into account when AR's were implelented.....let more mature deer do the breeding instead of a bunch of yearlings. Thats how a natural herd structure works.

The simplest response to your questions to me txtrophy 85 is this . In east Tx I cannot see any difference in the numbers of matures vs young bucks but I will say that it’s made it a lot harder to bag a buck because of the AR and it’s disheartening to hunt both bow season and general in and out the rut as hard as I have just to see a lot of nice bucks that don’t fit the AR rules and have to let them walk and not see a shooter . To those who have more land etc this may not be an issue but when you have a small 43 acre place and only a few bucks running on it it cuts your chances way down of getting a deer this is my issue with it I’m seeing a lot of really tall antlered deer that I can’t shoot that are not immature deer but they don’t meet this AR rule. Does on the other hand are plentiful but shoot legal bucks that’s another story . I just would like the freedom to shoot what I have here but big brother telling me no is a little aggravating. Ty for the info.

What county are you hunting in? I would venture a guess that some of those mature bucks you are passing on as not being legal are actually sporting a 13+ inch spread. I killed a deer last week that was inside his ears that had a 15” spread. Based on the “ear chart” he would have been marginal. He wasn’t a large bodied deer either.

AR’s are not perfect…nothing is. But it’s about as good a system as one could come up with to get a buck to 3 years of age or older.

Good luck hunting and I hope you get a whopper this season

I wish theyd drop the 'spike' buck rule. Shooting a yearling buck is not letting bucks mature and there is way too much evidence that yearling spikes turn into good deer most of the time

WARNING: TL; DR!

Actually there isn't that much evidence, just a couple of well-publicized studies that are latched on to by people trying to argue the Kerr study (which is horrible). Honestly, allowing animals at the bottom of the age class to be harvested isn't necessarily bad, given the large population in most TX counties. But which ones do you target? How do you know?

Spikes are primarily the result of four things: 1. Lesser genetics, 2. Bad parenting, 3. Bad range conditions, 4. Late birth. All of those are fairly easy to see as they result in what is typically a smaller animal that will appear inferior in every way to his peers from the same year. But they are also hard to identify, and only one, genetics, is something you really want to do anything about (if you could).

A twin buck born to a young mother who manages to raise both fawns will likely have low birth weight, weaning weight, mature weight and antler development the majority of his life versus his peers. He might come close to catching up but I can tell you, having had a hand in birthing and raising 6,000 sheep and goats in my life, that a ruminant that is dinged at a young age like that rarely catches up. As a smaller animal, he will be dominated his whole life around food sources. This perpetuates his status as a smaller animal and makes it harder for him to even maintain, let alone catch up. A buck with a bad mother or lost mother will face the same challenges, as will one who faces a severe illness or bad parasites in that young window. Late borns will also likely fall into this case, where they are smaller and behind for a very large part of their life.

Genetically, you might have a yearling buck that is a match for everyone else in his class except in the antler department. But do we know if that's a predictor of him being smaller his whole life? What if his genetics are that he builds his body first and then at maturity his antlers are on par or even larger than the others? Maybe his particular main food source packed on pounds but not bone on his head? Hard to argue eliminating these at this age since they have a much better shot than any of bad parents/late-borns do.

Bad range conditions typically results in a much higher than average number of spike bucks. Granted it's a very small sample size, but on my 600 acres this year in Mills (after two horribly dry years) I'm seeing about twice the number of spikes as we see in a decent year. There just wasn't anything for them to eat. I still see the 45lbers and the 70lbers, but very few of the yearling bucks have forks or better this year. Should they all get a pass? Pretty easy to take some out that you wouldn't necessarily want gone.

So what's the answer? I don't have it. I think the spike rule is about 50-50. Most of them killed, IMO, will be deer that were already looking at an uphill climb to maturity. I don't think you'll miss them unless you're shooting the larger ones. But there are so many variables about why the young dude is just a spike, you're not making an informed judgment call when you shoot him.

Agreed. IMO if everyone shot a spike that could wipe out an entire age class of deer in one season potentially.

One year down south, we had a year where 98% of yearlings were spikes. next year as 2 year olds prolly 80% had 8 points. had we shot spikes we would have effectively killed an entire age class of deer.


but, as previously mentioned, I think that TPWD threw the meat hunters a bone to be able to shoot a "meat buck" if they couldn't find a mature one that met the spread requirements.

I hunt panola and Rusk counties

I want to clarify some of the things I posted I went back and read them and they sound way more aggressive and attacking to hunters than I wanted them to . If I have offended anyone here I apologize my intent was not to offend I’ve been really frustrated about the AR laws for awhile but I don’t have any right to be condescending to other hunters who agree with them and for that I apologize I could very well be wrong on how this rule came in place, I picture its from someone sitting behind a desk somewhere that does not even hunt or want to hunt that came up with it. Someone who has watched some hunting tv and read some books on it and assumes that all hunters are geared like the trophy hunter and we are not all like that . I do not dislike trophy hunters or trophy hunting as long as the game taken is appreciated and used. I have no problem with it . I hunt more because I enjoy the hunt than I do for the antlers, I have learned a lot over the years by watching does, fawns, young and old bucks without even attempting to take one, a and I’m . Sure many others here have as well, I still don’t like the rule but I don’t want anyone here reading what I have posted and to leave with the feeling that of offense to them or that I dont like those who hunt for big horns and such, my frustration got the best of me and that’s not how I feel at all. I do hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable hunt that has good experiences and makes some good memories with their friends and families regardless of their age experiences level or reasons for hunting . Good luck to you all and have a great time and God bless you all.

It’s all good Rowdy. Most of us don’t like ARs; but it’s necessary when millions of people are actively harvesting. Most every hunter wants a trophy in life; but the connection to the environment varies by the style of hunting when one first engages in the activity. Spot and stalk with a recurve certainly brought me closer to the environment when I first started.
Once again; ARs can be greatly improved starting with the implementation of exceptions. Judging the length of an imaginary stick across a spread has been proven to be too difficult. And game gets wasted. That’s a fact. Judging length of an visual stick such as 2 tines is much easier for all. 7-9 points with 2 tines as long as his ears should be a legal buck regardless of the spread. Is that too much to ask of a hunter to determine before killing an animal? Not if he or she loves the environment.

South of Bowie. Haven’t seen a really big buck in years. No bucks seen again this year that would be legal. Have t heard a shot. Why? I really believe a 4 year drought has made a difference. Once again, I couldn’t plant wheat.

Holy cow, I can't believe you are serious about any of this. So instead of 'Buck looks at me, beams outside ears, BOOM' I now have to count the number of LEGAL points, compare TWO different points to his ears, which start where, the base, the cupped opening, somewhere else? I don't see where it's been 'too difficult' for 200-300,000 hunters each year in Texas.

Also wasted game is a fact? Please show me. That's strictly your opinion. Please show me the huge pile of 12" bucks that got tossed in ditches. There are two very easy ways around wasting a deer that doesn't meet ARs. One, process him yourself into a cooler; two, take him to the processor and have them give you the antlers. Processor doesn't care if it meets ARs-most aren't even going to look at the tag to see if the county involved has ARs. I've watched it happen live at two different processing plants. All they see is $.

Is there an opportunity for improvement? Sure, but your suggestion is far from easier.

You only have to count to 10. My daughter has some great flash cards if you need em. Don’t know anyone myself that would admit to poaching. Except maybe you. Not my cup of tea. Furthermore; I would much rather shoot every buck when he’s not looking at me. He certainly is less likely to jump; giving me the advantage of a perfect shot every possible time. I hunt big game with a bow. Pheasants too.

There has already been a lot of points proving how a tine based system vs spread would be detrimental to TPWD goals and to the herds health. It also has the exact same issue as spread because you have to assume that G4 or that browtine is actually 1" and not 7/8". Either way you are estimating a measurement.

a 4 point per side minimum would expose a significant number of 2 year old bucks to harvest. The goal is to get them to 3. Thats why a point per side minimum won't work.

I hope it stays... in our counties at least... it does wonders... other counties may need to be analyzed better but its been best case for any blanket rule they could have added

Same here, I hunt counties around Waco and its made a hell of a difference for the better, #1 better buck doe ratio and with more bucks getting the pass and #2 with more bucks we get a shorter fawning season. #3 Bigger trophy deer than in the past is just an additional benefit, but #1 and #2 are the main reasons for the restrictions not to create more trophies. IMO the places that aren't seeing good results the locals aren't following the restrictions and just shooting two bucks regardless of size and obviously that's going to make the hunting worse than when the counties were one buck.

Nope, too many daddys shooting deer themselves during youth season...