At what age do you think a deer will achieve his best set of antlers? I like to say “max rack”.
I know there are many many variables but give me your best shot. Try to compare apples to apples by assuming even amounts of rainfall from year to year.
I’m mostly curious about free ranging NON protein fed deer, but please give whatever info you are experienced with. If it’s a protein fed situation then say that.

Start to go down year 7.

6 max out or in exceptional range conditions 7 can be even better.

Agree, Year 6 on avg., past that more declining than rising on avg.

Along with assuming consistent average rainfall, also assume consistent quality range conditions.
Trying to take out environmental factors and just evaluating what the deer is capable of under like circumstances.

THIS article follows a buck from 1.5 until his natural death at 12.5. Good data.

I have hunted the place I hunt now since 2007. Our deer see the biggest jump in score from age 3.5 to 4.5. After 4.5 the racks see minimal gain even in really wet years. In dry years I have even seen them drop below what they were at 4.5. So for our herd I say our deer max out at 4.5 and get better or worse depending on range conditions every year after that. Last year our 4 year old racks looked more like 3 year olds due to the range conditions so I didnt even shoot a deer hoping they would rebound at age 5. Sadly only one of those deer lived to see 5 years old this year and he went from a very average 4 year old 9 point to a nice 5 year old 11 point this year so I took him with my bow.

Have seen best racks anywhere from 5.5 to 7.5 and I believe there are too many factors to predict when a deer will have his best year. I’ve seen bucks have their best years in poor range conditions and they’re worst in good range conditions. I think range conditions are a better predictor for the antler growth at the aggregate herd level rather than the individual level

Yeah, if you take out the environmental factors and just go by growrh thru the ages, the max frowth will be between 7-8yo on average, with some deer continuing to put on antler “score” into 10 years.


But….how can you take away environmental factors when that is exactly what determines a deers phenotypic expression? Range conditions, nutrition, stress (both predator and rut stress being the biggest players, but also climate stress added in as well) all play such huge roles.

It is an interesting concept to discuss max antlers at what age, but no deer is ever living in the situation where you can ignore environmental factors. Kind of like asking what electric vehicle gets the best mile range, when we all know the testing range conditions are never even remotely close to approximating the real driving conditions and the real mile range one gets from one of those EVs.

6.5

I didn’t mean to say ”take out” environmental factors. I’m just assuming average environmental factors. I do want to assume a property with above average natural habitat.
I’m looking at an age class of bucks that have been through life in average conditions and now they are in their prime.
At what max age have you seen their best and what age will be one too many?

For what age will be one too many - we don't pass on 7.5 if we get the opportunity to kill them then. Mortality seems to increase dramatically at that point

Double, good point on natural mortality. Everyone can/should/will make their own decisions on when they think deer will die by either bullet or nature. I’m trying to narrow the focus to just the deer that DO make it to that next year. At what year are they max rack and when is it one year too many? Once again, there’s factors that will cause racks to go up or down year to year but things being equal, what year is the max rack year?

Free range with no protein supplementation I’d say 6 1/2. On a well managed place with unlimited groceries I’d say 8 1/2.

Thanks, Sapp. That is what I have always thought but we have unusually good natural habitat that stays more on an even plane than some country that’s boom or bust with rain. Rain is always big but some mast and woody plants will still be there during hard times.

Galvan doesn’t let trophies go till wildlife mgr pegs videos or photos as being 7. 6 is our minimum trophy age and now. some waiting until 7.

This one wasn’t crap and should’ve been taken prior until he blew up at 7.


It doesn’t always work out. Not always sure about age and range conditions play a large factor. One thing is certain, they don’t get bigger once shot.

Thanks Hud. Do you have pics of DD before 7yr?

We feed protein. We manipulate the browse with herbicide and fire. Habitat is above average. Average annual rainfall is 42”. The population hovers right around carrying capacity. 7.5 is where the majority peak. Somewhere from age
5 1/2 to 7 1/2 many do have a down year that they bounce back from.

Smokey is a man that lives it. No copy paste for him.
Thanks for that excellent insight. 👍
I wonder with the population control, habitat work and good natural habitat, if you didn’t feed protein would they still peak at 7. That’s kind of the end game on this thread for me.

Depends entirely on the property. On well fed and well managed properties, 7 years old is when they want to harvest them.


On another ranch 60 miles away, they may have a hard time carrying a deer past 5 years old. We had a hard time getting a deer past that...i passed on a bunch of 5 year olds trying to get them to 6 and we never saw them again.


I've seen deer be their best at 4 years old and other times their best at 7. Its really a case by case basis with a variety of factors coming into play.

My gut says age would not change. Protein feeding shines where numbers exceed carrying capacity and in marginal habitat where the deer, by necessity, subsist on lower quality forage. That is not the case where I do the bulk of my hunting. What the supplemental protein stations does best is make it very simple to inventory all the bucks that live on a large tract at night in a relatively small percentage of the property. For that reason alone it is very unlikely the group I hunt with will abandon their feeding program. Genetics and age are the main determining factors on producing big deer. Protein is not the magic it is made out to be. The scrubs live at the protein feeders alongside the deer that get big. The scrubs still don’t get big…

Very true... it wont change their genetics... imo it just gives the deer that are capable of growing to large sizes the best chance of doing so by taking the stress of finding or fighting over food away. The years that mother nature is a bit harsh for plant growth is when it shows the most

its higher in the south then in the north.

Big different in STX vs Kansas vs Michigan

Free to answer your question even if your aren't supplementing with protein, there is still a large different in other supplemental influence like ag: alfalfa, soybeans etc

Assume no ag and assume Tx and Okla.

All my Oklahoma management is either panhandle(irrelevant) or North east’ish along KS border. I can tell you my biggest jumps were from 4.5 -5.5 as a % and most still grew most years into 7.5. 7.5 seemed to be more susceptible to big swings via mother nature, they also has least amount of growth and where more susceptible to EHD and natural mortality as they really started being pushed around.

Before I sold my part, we had dramatically increased buck herd age in general, but still kept about same densities. We really focused on doe harvest and 6.5 or better on bucks. We did start supplemental with bag protein last 2 years I had it but compared to me tilling under coastal and putting in Alfalfa and pulling corn/wheat and moving to soybeans its was minimal. Ag made carry bucks another 1-2 years much easier. With out it wouldnt be worth even thinking 7.5 and 6.5 might been marginal growth to even consider it IMO

Curious Bobo. Is 7.5 where you most often see big mass blossom?
For us that is what when we see. The ones that throw the big mass do it most often then. That is what swayed us to let the high end bucks ride till 7.5. And like you mentioned, it is a calculated gamble. FWIW we hit on that gamble more than we miss. We do miss some but occasionally we hit big. We have also occasionally seen what Hud detailed. Average deer that get that kind of age because nobody will shoot them and then blow up out of nowhere at 7 or 8. Nobody here has mentioned the dirt, but it plays into it. Some geographic areas just grow them big and have for decades. Well before feeding protein was a thing there have been some areas that produced big deer year in and year out… there are more big ones today than there used to be. There are also more people letting the deer get some age on them.

from a score # no, 6.5 was. 7.5 was same mass usually but carried in to times more. Biggest difference was 7.5 was all the little added junk that showed up, but it seemed about 50% chance it didnt off set shorter times.

North of OKC Im not sure the winters make it worth trying to carry past 6.5. In fact north of Red with out heavy ag or supplemental , I wouldn't think about caring over unless he just lost a whole beam. I just dont think its worth the higher risk of natural death vs what you might gain

Friends in KS and Nebraska pretty much see the same thing as 6.5 is about tops. alot of them say they see more declines at 6.5, unless is just an exceptional moisture year. They all annuli deer like we do so while not exact its closer then just observational.

I agree on the dirt, also some areas just seem to get moisture at the right times, consistently , with stout dirt timely rains make for monster deer,

Ok so free set a few parameters and i still will say given the place you hunt, 7.5 is going to be about max score for “most” bucks. You will run the risk of natural mortality from rut past that point, you have way too many 4-5.5 yo bucks with great antlers that will challenge a great 8.5 yo and tear that older guy a new one, but also with the environmental stresses you see there, hot summers and colder winters, i would not be shocked if most bucks are dead by 8.5-9.5 at the latest. Most are probably dying a couple years before that. There will be the occasional non-rutting old buck that may show up older, but by then antlers will be lower than 7.5-8.5.

For your hunting Free, i would believe “most” bucks peak around 6.5-7.5. Not gonna see much after that in gain.
In a drought couple of year you could wait till 7.5, but in a time where mast and natural browse are good and plentiful for several years, 6.5 is probably going to be a good target age.

Bergmann's rule pretty much sets the tone,

STX growth at 7.5+ just isn't common placed future north you go. Some of those ranches are taking bucks with live weights at 240+ at 7.5. Thats heavy real heavy, and not happening with out supplemental

Yes, but bergmann isnt doing much from an antler standpoint, only body weight. A massive northern buck may have mediocre antlers because so much of its effort goes to making that big body able to sustain a winter that is harsh. Whereas a big body south texas/oklahoma deer isnt having to expend all that effort to growing body and can grow bigger antlers.

Having said that, i think most northern hunters would say they would love to let bucks get to 7.5 or so, but so few actually can make it that ling due to a number of factors up there.

bigger body weights for harsher winters, equals bigger horns, Also Northern deer hit maturity quicker. Hanson was 3.5/4.5 year old buck, Google a B&C map and its pretty obvious where the big deer come from.

The STX 245lb+ native deer are product of supplemental feeding. Big healthy unstressed deer just live longer. The whole 7.5 -8.5 plus hits max antlers is a straight product of nutrition. But That nutrition level to get a STX buck to 245 is just normal for a Corn belt/midwest deer. Difference is STX have a much less stressful winter

BOBO i respect ypur opinion, but i disagree that bigger bodies automatically means bigger antlers. The B&C belt is there because of the abundant good soil which creates abundant browse and good ag production coupled with winters that are not overly harsh. Bucks grow bog bodies due to the abundant nutrition, arent severely stressed by nature, and if left to grow older can get big antlers, but if you continue north in the WT deer range, the antler size reduces as the effort to survive outweighs antler expression. Sure you can find some big WT in canada and montana/minnesota/up michigan/maine, but these are not as common as deer dont typically grow old and grow big antlers because so much effort is expended just to stay alive, despite big bodies.

This is getting beyond the OP question. but still good discussion.

Good discussion. Appreciate all the thoughts. Hunted hard all day and watched cowboys hard all night. I’ll try to chime in tomorrow but I’ll be hunting hard for a 7yr old buck.

its not automatic, still have genetics, sustainable habitat, thermal cover, age etc, but you can argue with record books…. Western front of CO is pretty definitive, Maine VS Florida pretty definitive . Bigger bodies bigger antlers,

good luck, Slap the horns and stir it up a little

Y’all are going down a bunny trail comparing apples to oranges. There are 16 subspecies of whitetail in North America…
Freerange, keep that in mind when you consider what you want to try.

We feed protein and cottonseed. I have said for years that supplemental feeding is just that. Important in drought years and not so much in good rain years. If we had the irrigation water available we would much prefer food plots.

We also cull does hard in years with good fawn survival and bucks that show no potential. We have water pilas all over the ranch which IMO is huge during drought.

We have seen and tracked bucks that have grown to 10 years old and up that still had great racks. We have had others that dipped at age 6 and then come back strong at 7-8 so of course it varies.

If we are unsure of a buck's age then we pass on it to see what happens the following year.

of the 16 how many have re-stocking DNA from STX and KS

I know bigger bunny trail.

Interesting progression. I find it odd that the 3 YO and 7YO picture are the same. In every set of pictures except 11 YO the white band goes all around the muzzle behind his nose but on 11 YO it’s only on the sides. I also think without ear tags or obvious body markings it’s really hard to look at a clean spike and identify the next set of antlers.

I’m clueless about most. In my part of texas two sub sets of deer were re-introduced in the 1960’s. One group was from Minnesota. For the most part they were ill adapted to Texas and perished. The other group was from the king ranch and they flourished. There is actually a local landmark that still carries the moniker “buck hill” where the releases occurred. The deer we have where I hunt are genetically south texas deer.

Really appreciate the good feedback guys. Hunting hard myself so maybe I’ll address some specific comments later.
For now just keep it coming whether it’s down a rabbit hole or not.
On subspecies, I will say our deer in SC Okla are decent size but not like what I know about some other parts of Okla or Tx panhandle or Kansas. They do often have the reddish tint/accent.
We aren’t super far from Hagerman, so there’s that….,
For this discussion I’m not assuming our deer are real different from NTx deer and our climate is not so different than NTx.

I read there is only one pure DNA herd left. King.

think I read lufkin area has had a Kansas release also.. The deer I saw many years ago on a charity hunt at Boggy sure had the red’ish Kansas coat

Look at a map of the US cropland, it closely, not perfectly, mirrors the B&C map BOBO posted up.

I still stand by the statement the B&C band is more due to natural browse and ag due to excellent soils than simply big bodies. Otherwise, we would see the B&C map as a increasingly northern thing, but it isn't, it is mostly a midwestern thing. I wish I could enlarge that map BOBO posted, everytime I try on my computer it just makes the text bigger but the pic stays the same size. And I can not find it online in a enlargeable format. I would love to to see some info abot the outliers in northern minnesota and northern maine....Other than those two areas, the B&C band follows the ag crop land almost perfectly, except in areas where winters are harsh.

Anyway, great discussions and the subspecies issue brings a whole lot more to the table. That is where I know my limits and don't try to discuss much.

As the crow flies I am less than 30 miles from boggy slough.

I figured since you were in Timber country. It was a cool place. Interesting history and management. I learned a lot about tree farming in that one week. Fun times

I thought that the bucks in South Texas typically grew their best antlers at age seven while Hill Country bucks at age 6. I think the reason for this is the difference in browse. South Texas is weed country, especially winter and early spring which is tender and easy on their teeth. Unfortunately, we don't grow the tender natural vegetation as well in the Hill Country which causes Hill Country buck's teeth to wear out sooner.
Just my two cents...
Adios,
Gary

Probably some truth to that. Also STx just has more country being managed more intensively for Trophies including more committed supplemental feeding. Most places around the state never see a 7 yr old so they have no idea what growth may be. They also are not willing(or able, depending on situation) to do what it takes to get them to that age.

Know the deer but wouldn’t have kept one of just him.

I love hunting south texas but I doubt it would produce anywhere near the number or size body or antler deer it does if it was t intensively managed.

71/2 years young

Yes, it requires patience.

South Texas produces bigger deer and larger antlers because of population density in combination with browse quality.

Cattle typically in great condition if not overgrazed. Used to be a big vegetable growing region. The soil is responsive.

Ok, let’s simplify the question. Everybody should be able to play along now.
HYPOTHETICAL….
-assume 10000 acres of above average natural habitat.
-no supplemental feeding.
-Texas or southern Okla.
-last few years average rainfall.
-160 to 200” deer have been killed on occasion in the past.
-10 bucks are seen this year that score 150 and are all 6 yr old.
QUESTION— if they all live till next year and all conditions stay the same then how many of the 10 get bigger? How many get smaller? How many stay the same?
Looking for 3 numbers, guys.

10 7.5 deer

20-30% get bigger
20-30% stay same
20-30% shrink
10-30% die

you implement late season supplemental

survival and growth grow

STX Or Golden triangle is unique in its forage. One of the few place some deer grow in drought years, due to less palatable but higher nutrient option become a daily necessity.

This

I was wanting to exclude natural mortality but maybe it makes more sense to include it. Obviously there’s a good chance there will be some. If I knew the answer I wouldn’t be asking the questions but I think Bobos numbers make some sense. Hopeful to get others to chime in.

I think you are far enough south that my mortality % is high but I'd rather be surprised then disappointed

Agree on the attitude but wanting numbers from y’all and I’ll factor in the emotions and intangibles:)
We’ve only had 2 or 3 freezes this year. Corn piling up under feeders-lots to eat.
We have an 80 acre wheat field and I just looked at my hunting diary from previous years and we average 60 a sit on that field but this year only a handful. So much natural to eat they aren’t hungry.

What do you want? A spreadsheet?

No, just 3 numbers as best you can estimate….
Each will be between zero and 10.
I think you may have a finance/numbers background so I have faith in you.
Or ask our buddy BW his opinion.

Freerange, the only way you can know the answer is to identify some to let walk and start establishing data points. In time, with enough data points where you are. You can draw some meaningful conclusions. Reality is very few hunters walk that walk. Most likely none of us here have walked it in your location. My advice would be not to go all in from the outset. Pick a few each year to watch and see. There is a finite window. Try to identify the back door of the window you can warehouse the bucks in your area to without giving too much up.

Understand and agree with all that Smokey. Appreciate your time and opinion.
That’s pretty much what my plan is. We have an archive of pics of any “deer of interest”. Not a sophisticated system of tracking but the info is there if we want to go back and look and assess.
I also understand about the walk the walk. We are blessed and I just want to do all I can to maximize instead of waste.
Only 4 of us and we are all patient but no way are we cutting off our nose to spite our face by passing up every 6yr old.
Besides, there is usually enough older deer that some make it through without us trying.
I know what I think we should do in our situation and im prepared to do it. I’m mostly hoping for yalls input to use as fuel to discuss with my other guys. Everyone needs to be on board with all management plans.

One of our guys took this video at bow range of this buck this morning. I don’t know how post video. He’s the type buck none of us would kill as a Trophy so we have watched him for several years and will continue to. He’s likely 7 or 8 and this is his max rack(so far). It’s not a lot bigger and it’s only a one deer sample size and it was also a good rain year.
At least he didn’t shrink or die

Free - just my opinion. You know way more about deer and deer hunting than 99.9% of hunters - you are the most dedicated hunter I have ever known. So my adivice (even though it was not solicited) is for you as the lease manager to lay down the program and rules for the other hunters. Does not have to be hard core but you do not have to prove yourself to them. Just have a meeting and tell them that this is where we are going with the lease. I am guessing they all respect you greatly so do not worry about hurting anyone's feelings - just let them know here is our program going forward and it is what it is - good luck Brother

Tlk, thanks for the very kind words. I could say all the same about you. We are all pretty like minded and this would not be a big shift so it shouldn’t be a hard sell type thing. Thanks for your input.

I will chime in and basically agree along the lines of what BOBO posted, you are looking at around 30% rule of thumb…

30% will stay about same, 30% will get better, 30% will get worse.

I think the numbers from studies show about that, and also that there is almost zero predictability of who will get bigger vs who will get smaller. The word from the research side is shoot a deer if it gets you excited and don’t worry about next year. Obviously this research is in managed properties with good age structure in place. So if you are getting deer to 5.5+ then the criteria can be shoot away if it fancies you. The ability to say a specific deer will make it thru the winter and grow bigger (in a low fence non-fed situation like we are talking) is so difficult to predict.

"is so difficult to predict."

So bottom line is do not fret over all of the details. Doing math on deer is useless IMO. Lf or HF - feed or no feed. Mother Nature ends up being the deciding factor in most cases of which none of us have any control over.

Use common sense and put in the time to do the basic things that have been proven to work - cull mouths to feed (does and cull bucks), be patient, if in doubt of age do not shoot, find quality hunters to hunt with who do not buy into "if it has horns it is down" - feed or don't feed - neither is right or wrong but obviously feeding can improve the herd. Provide deer a water source if at all possible. My 2 cents worth but what do I know??

Wiser words may have not been spoken tlk…and you live the proof of that wisdom.

The bottom line is, don’t worry about it. If you have enough age, and like the deer, then shoot it.
As tlk said, if worried about the age, then let it walk and hope mother nature does some magic.

Buckeye,
It depends on what kind of deer you’re interested in. If the biggest ones at five or six that do manage to get bigger at 7 are the segment you hunt for, you won’t have any of those walking around if they get shot at five or six. Plain and simple. Where I hunt, natural mortality between age six and seven is well under 10%. The % that get bigger at 7 in my experience, is over 50% of the ones we let go, which are all the high end bucks. Someone else’s mileage may vary depending on the variables in their location. The biggest limitation to maximizing the antlers of free range deer is not feed. It is trigger fingers. Those that pull it off with relative frequency are the ones to pay attention to of that is what you want to accomplish. Those that walk that walk are a relatively small fraternity.

Disturbing or eliminating a reasonable percentage of the climax habitat to promote early successional plant species (forb production) is significantly more impactful than bag protein.

I’m sure all of that probably varies some by geographic location.

Totally understand smokey! And i agree with everything you wrote. 50% is a bog number for growth at 6.5yo but if thays what you have seen then hard to argue it. But that also means a deer that tickles your fancy at 6.5 will be worse half the time (or a little less than half the time) at 7.5….sure it could get bigger but it has a decent chance of getting smaller as compared to a 4.5 yo buck which we almost can guarantee saying it “should” get better the following year.

Trigger finger is the hardest thing to control ultimately. The other stuff is just work (please dont take that to say it is easy work). The willpower to not ahoot a pretty deer in hopes it will get better is really the ONLY thing we can control. Especially as the season goes on and you get that itch to kill something, that willpower can be a tough thing to control.

"Especially as the season goes on and you get that itch to kill something, that willpower can be a tough thing to control"

Over the many years we have had our lease the few mistakes that were made on a hunter shooting a DNK buck was on the final weekend of the the season. A few guys just could not stand it and therefore ............. they were not back with us the following season. Maybe the greatest management tool of all for whitetail deer hunting is patience and self control.

I am not talking about an entire are class Buckeye. What I am describing is identifying the top genetic subset within each age class that exhibit superior antler growth potential and characteristics. The ones that continue to make jumps annually beyond the age their peers stagnate. It is within that subset that the majority seem to reach their zenith at 7. In other words stacking your odds by only betting on the winners. The more liberal your selection criteria is, the lower your response rate, is the conclusion I have came to where I am. For the remainder of bucks, culling starts at the bottom and begins at age 4. I am also convinced applying that management philosophy across the board would significantly lower your percentage of positive response at 7.

Excluding hunters that are not on board is part of it I had purposely left out of what I had typed. It is a critical piece of the puzzle.

Smokey, I don’t understand your last sentence above.
Lot of good comments I haven’t been able to stay caught up on and address specifically.
I will say comments have been made and I agree completely that even considering allowing some bucks to reach the very age that’s max rack is not realistic for most hunters. Many reasons for that. I’m certainly not advocating anyone do it. I’m just soliciting comments about what that age may be for max rack so I can make decisions myself with our situation.
A progression of pics of a deer over years is great to look at for this and I’ve got one coming up for y’all to ponder.

Again - in my humble opinion the hunters are the MOST important factor at the end of the day - everybody better be on board with the program or all other efforts become secondary and worthless -

Ok free, numbers are not your thing. Most deer make a jump at 4. After their skeletal frame has reached its full size all the bone they produce can go to their antlers. After that most slow down on bone production and make small incremental gains. Some have the genetics to keep making more bone than their peers. They continue to make substantial antler jumps annually. That is reflected in their headgear. These are the deer we notice and watch. This tendency holds up better over time in the deer with the genetic makeup to do it. Others stagnate and look much the same year to year. They are not the ones that get big. If you carry the ones that don’t get big till 7 it will skew your data to the low side. It is what tlk is referring to with his comment about culling. You have a finite amount of high value browse in every habitat scenario. When it is in low supply all the deer to some degree then transition to second choice, lower value browse. Those big mature bucks are going to consume at least 12 pounds of browse/day. Carrying them all to 7 puts more pressure on the habitat. Consequently all the deer have less high value browse per animal available to them. Understand that in the winter you are not growing much browse. Until spring green up the deer are subsisting on what is warehoused in the available habitat. (This is what they lean on to recover from the rigors of the rut). When the bucks come out of winter in less than optimum condition it impacts all of the antlers. Good genetics and bad genetics alike. It is what STX has stated so many times in the past about removing mouths. To make the most of your bucks you also have to make the most of the available habitat.

I’ve spoke up way more than I usually do in these discussions. I’m about done.

Spot on.

Smokey, I understand everything you are saying and I’m very good at numbers, but I don’t follow how the quoted below sentence fits. It seems the opposite and maybe you mistyped. “Which” “management philosophy” are you referring to that LOWERS your percentage of positive response?
“I am also convinced applying that management philosophy across the board would significantly lower your percentage of positive response at 7.”

And, Smokey, I agree you have been involved more on this thread than you usually do and I appreciate it. Take a break if need be.

If you let all the bucks live till age 7, you will be disappointed. At times I have a gift for being misunderstood.

Maybe it’s my English and not my Math. Maybe I got it.
Maybe you are saying by allowing TOO MANY older bucks to go through(stockpiling and not culling) that you keep too many mouths which is counter productive. I agree with that but If that’s not your point then I’m back to lost.

Well durn, we typed at same time but it looks like all is well.
Now both us old guys need to hit the hay.

That's really cool. And kinda made me sad...

I’ve got history with this buck for 3 years counting this year. I have both sheds for the first year so I know what he scores then.
Should be interesting for y’all to try to age and score him for each year and relate to this max rack discussion. Did he get better or worse and at what age? I don’t take much from a sample size of one but interesting none the less. Remember, we dont feed protein so that may factor into the body/age look.

2021- 5x5 with couple small kickers(4” total)

2022- 5x6 short right side but had the extra typ pt



2023- 6x5 at some point broke half rg1 and half lg3

Looks 4.5-5.5-6.5

I’m trash at field judging score so not gonna try

Free, I'd have ancient history with that guy because he'd be full of a lead diet, lol....

First pic looks like a fluffed up 3.5yo but i am guessing the pic is post rut and he is a little older.
So i will go 4.5 in first thru 6.5 this year. I also know the area holds some of those leggy bucks and those can really be deceiving on aging.

Score-wise, he is about a 150 class in first pic, and drops some second year, then this year he picked up more. Not shocking considering last season had sporadic rain in spring that really dropped off in the summer so finishing range condition was not great. This year there was more timely rain to give better nutrition thru the growing season.
He could be better next year if he survives, but he also may drop again. He sure is pretty this year. I dont see him blowing up to be a 200+ buck but i could see him pushing high 70’s to mid 80’s if we have a great spring/summer. That is the big IF. He is a solid mid-high 160’s buck this year (adding in the busted off part), so i could see him being shot this year.

But looking at averages, most 5.5-6.5 yo bucks are not putting on 20-25% more antler (to get bigger than 180’ class), its more like 10-15%. So figure if he is 6.5, then you might be looking at a really pretty 180” buck. If he is already 7.5 (and one could make the argument he is) then you might be looking at a similar 10-15% drop (on average).

This is why ear tags are so helpful for deer management. You know how old a deer is without question and you know by law of averages which deer is likely to get bigger vs smaller and which are the lower quadrant of their age class, etc. Hard to do ear tags where you hunt tho.

Double AC, you need to get into the field scoring game. It’s fun.
TXBuc, Thanks for your comments. For what it’s worth, Im not trying to get them to 180/200 but I’ll take it when it might happen.
DQ, what’s up with you? You have got to be hands down the most prolific poster on age/score threads and you cant give me an estimate….? I figure you must be busy. Maybe with so many pics over 3 years you feel the need to take your time with a good estimate. Cmon man, Im waiting on you…..

The bigger question is does that buck get bigger next year or does he get smaller?

What are the odds it gets bigger vs smaller and how?

Does a deer like that follow BOBO's rule (I know he didn't come up with it but was the first to post it in this thread) of thirds?
Or does a buck like this have a higher chance of getting bigger?

6.5 this year 158-162 and I'm being conservative

I watched a 175 inch LF buck that was 5 years old. Was very tempting to shoot him but I let him walk. The next year (a total drought year) he added 21 inches - I shot him and he qualified for B & C book

I know this - NOBODY knows what the chances are of a deer getting bigger or going backwards. Too many factors involved. But when in doubt give the deer a pass and hope he grows. A dead deer never grows another inch.

I saw and took video of a 9 point 175 inch buck. We had him at 5 years old so I passed as hard as it was to do. Following year he added 21 inches in a totally drought year. He qualified for B&C and I look at him every day in my home office. I never have regretted passing on him.

It’s fun and I’m decent enough at it on the deer at our place where a big deer is 140-150, I just haven’t been around enough 140+ deer in person though to be able to accurately scale up to that next size class

Beautiful buck and what you said is true, they never grow another inch once shot. It is amazing that deer put on 21” in one drought year, do you have pics of him the year before he was shot? Normal/average growth patterns are 10-15% annually from after 4.5 thru 6.5 yo, so assuming the buck was a 175” buck at 5.5, adding 15% gets you right at 22”, the important thing there is aging him at 5.5. Having three years of history with a buck and seeing the seesaw growth of him the last couple years its hard to say this one (free’s) will grow 20+” but i could see him putting on some NT stuff like yours has or something. The buck FR has shown is a great example of law of averages, decent buck first year who dropped a little then bounced back up.

The bigger question at hand is was your deer fed free choice protein or was this off a non-fed location. We all know feeding protein can mitigate a lot of drought issues. I don’t want to imply anything wrong with feeding, as i do it myself, but in the discussion at hand, we are talking about a non-fed herd subject to just natural browse and some food plot in the winter. So it may be an apples to oranges comparison.


Btw, this is a good discussion, lets keep it going as best we can.

I have a video of him at age 5 and scoring 175 - will try to find it and post. The shed hanging on my mount is what we found when he was the 175 and was his right side. We feed protein free choice so of course that helped with his growth.

-Bobo, thanks for your score estimate. I hope we can get some others estimates. I’ll give the hint that the first year his sheds score 155(18” spread.)

-TxBuc, thanks for your continued posts and insight.

-tlk, glad you got involved in the thread. You have as much experience letting “mature” bucks walk as anyone I know. Would love to see any examples of more than one year with a mature buck.

Anyone else feel free to post any pics of a mature buck from one year to the next. Keep in mind the thread is about gaining insight into the age a buck may reach his max rack. I know there is no right answer cause there’s too many variables but want to explore some percentages/odds/likely hood or non, etc.

Took a look at all of the bucks we've had on camera the past few seasons that we have pics of with multiple seasons of at maturity. I included their age, typical frame and/or total scoreable tines, and a plus or minus on whether they put on or lost inches, as well as their living status or other relevant notes. I won't include the pictures here for sake of post length. To summarize, the majority of deer put on inches up until 6.5 then it was pretty split whether they added or lost inches at 7.5

Buck 1:
4.5, 7pt
5.5, 8pt, +
6.5, 8pt, +
7.5, No Pics, Assumed Dead

Buck 2:
4.5, 8pt
5.5, 8pt, +, Drought
6.5, 7pt plus 3" G2 kicker, -, Drought, Alive

Buck 3:
4.5, 6pt
5.5, 4pt, +
6.5, 6pt, +
7.5, 7pt, +, Drought
8.5, 6pt, -, Drought, Alive

Buck 4:
4.5, 10pt plus 1" G2 kicker
5.5, 10pt, +
6.5, 10pt, +
7.5, 9pt plus 4" G2 kicker, +
8.5, 9pt, -, Shot

Buck 5:
6.5, 8pt
7.5, 8pt, -
8.5, 8pt, -, Died of natural causes

Buck 6
4.5, 8pt
5.5, No Pics
6.5, 8pt, +
7.5, 8pt, -, Shot

Buck 7:
5.5, 8pt
6.5, 8pt, +
7.5, 8pt, +, Drought, Shot

Buck 8:
4.5, 10pt plus 1" base kicker
5.5, 10pt plus 1" base kicker plus 1" G2 kicker, +
6.5, 10pt, -, Drought
7.5, 10pt, - Drought, Alive

Buck 9:
4.5, 8pt
5.5, 9pt, +
6.5, 9pt, +
7.5, 10pt, -, Drought
8.5, No Pics, Assumed Dead

Double AC, that is some great info. I really appreciate you taking time to post all that. I hope you will feel free to post pics. I would love to see them. Understand if its too time consuming.

Well, this thread just took a turn to the world of reality for me personally.
This season I have passed good shots on 5 bucks 150 on up that we all felt were 6 and approved to hunt. One was bow killed Friday and way bigger than I thought.
So now I see a brand new buck yesterday and he’s big enough for me. Issue is I’m torn on him being even 6 much less 7. With no history on a buck it is just super hard to age on hoof.
And Bobo you’re over your pm limit.

I can generally age them within .5-1 yr. which is plenty good enough for me. I get within that and like what I see, I'm shooting, no overthinking things Free.

DQ, you’re an authority on here on age and score but no estimate with all those pics over 3 years???? Cmon man……

Free, too much work for me unless I'm the one sighting in on them. Great specimens though Free, all mature and for sure shooters for where I'm currently hunting...I will continue to go with 5.5-6.5 on max deer rack, on avg...

I hate this thread is fizzling out. Seems a topic worthy of more but likely not enough hunters are used to passing up 6 yr old bucks.
I’ve got a reason to bump the thread cause yesterday I got the first real good pics of the buck I posted with the three year progression of pics. If anyone wants to consider/reconsider age/score go ahead.
One of the guys is trying to hunt him so with some needed luck we may have a score soon. If not then fun to see what he does next year.

He sure is a pretty deer. Solid mass and nice width. I still think 21+' inside, mass will be solid, beam length will be good, and the curve tot he tines will make him score better than he appears.

Nice body for a post rut buck too. I sure do hope the hunter gets some tape on him, I want to see how my score estimate relates to real life....

arse has lost a-lot of muscle since 22. Pretty deer

I have 101 down

Callouses on the knees usually come with jelly in the brisket.

has a really cool cape too

Yes he has a very cool cape.
He also has callouses below the knees at his feet/ankles(the 38th characteristic?). I’m not used to seeing/looking for that.
Bobo we really close on down-I got maybe inch or two more.

One of guys bow hunts with us this morning killed the buck we’ve been talking about age and score on.
I’ll post pics moro but any more guesses on age score?
Hint-beams close to 25 and about 21 wide. Field dressed 146.

i figured him heavier then that.

101 down
46 down

147(150 if brow was still there)

Field dressed 146# is pretty good for post rut deer, would have put him in the 170-180# field dressed range pre rut and then live weight would be well over 200#

He is gonna push 160 even with the missing brow, not including any extra which it doesn't appear he has much. I will make a stab and say 10' more than BOBO, 157 as is....

I would guess 7; although I’ve heard that a true 12 point “typical” deer is rare, like 1 in 10,000, and can be 5 to 7 years old. I do see many 10’s and very few 12’s.

That's a spectacular buck!

congrats, a buck of a lifetime !!

I missed mass I bet by 5 106-107 down

Very close on down. Heck of a frame.
Bobo thanks for playing along so much and TxBuc and others as well.
Looks like not too much interest anymore, so I’ll post score moro probably.