Shooting my new Begara rifle with a Harvester evo.

Bought two boxes of Fiocchi ammo with 150 grain SST bullets.

Sight in at 25 yards and get zero’d there. No issues. Move to 100 and it’s spraying bullets all over the place. One shot is 2” low and center, the next 4” high and 3” right, next shot 6” left of bull, 4th shot 3” high and 3” left.

Take off the suppressor, same story. Check scope screws, bedding screw, suppressor baffles, etc. everything checks out. guy next to me loaned me 6-165 grain GMX hornady bullets….


First two shots are touching. Make an adjustment to scope and send third shot. It’s on. Next Two are also on. Make one little adjustment and send final one…1.5” high and maybe 1/2” to the left. I leave it as that’s good enough for government work, plus I’m out of shells.


In 33 years of shooting rifles ( mostly in preparation for hunts, I’m not a gun tinker) I’ve never had this issue with a rifle shooting a load this inconsistently. Sure, some like one ammo better than others, but nothing like this. Wife’s gun did not like nosler E-tips at all but they would still shoot 3” groups

Anyone ever experienced anything like this?

I have only seen one gun that bad and it was a Browning A-Bolt 2 in 7Mag. It hated EVERYTHING until I gave it some 175 Core Lokts. With the 175’s it has taken pigs well beyond 300 yards every year. Not an ideal load for that gun but if it works it works.

New rifle, new scope, new loads. Makes it hard to find the problem, but I’d try another scope.

I have seen it back when the PMC ammo was on all the shelves around here.

The new ammo was good. First ammo was awful

I'm not a fan of their ammo.

Need FG, but I’ve had it all happen man…

Triple check all you have checked

Once that’s done, try different ammo

It’s possible for all sorts of stuff and it’s a 1 by 1 deal

1 toss in question….is this rifle wearing a QD?

I’ll say this GMX are hippie pils, I only bought them when there was no other options

Worst ever for game

My Savage 308 does not like 168 Winchester Ballistic Tip but loved Federal 168 GMM. The Winchester was printing a very erratic 6-8 inch group at 100 yards, the FGMM was sub 1 inch.

I've had two new rifles that just would not shoot what I wanted to use. (Not as bad as what you described.) Both took several trials of different bullet weights, brands and styles, as well as powders and charges to find something I was happy with. Every rifle is different.

I had a rifle rebarreled by a well known guy. It didn’t shoot that well. Groups were erratic. I wasted a bunch of powder and bullets trying to find the good load. Swapped out the scope and the accuracy was still erratic. Tried an old tried and true scope and found that my rifle was fine. The first two scopes were bad. One was a rather new Nikon and I forget what the other one was, but I think it was a mid level Vortex.

Superformance was the worst. Although the Lite Magnum it replaced shot excellent in the same 7-08.

I had a bad experience with Fiocchi years ago in a 22 Hornet. The rifle shot everything else very well. No more Fiocchi since.

Several years ago bought a savage 243 win and 2 boxes of federal fusion 95 grain. It separated the fusion all over, but shot pretty good with hornady 100 grain spbt’s 100 grain sierras and100 grain partitions.

It is direct thread. No QD.

And I agree, I’m not a fan of copper loads. A 165 grain bullet at 2600 fps does not sound like it would expand all that well.

I’m gonna try a few different loads and see what happens

Never had a rifle that was THAT ammo picky.

Had some bad scopes do that though.

Worst I ever had was a Bushmaster Carbon 15 AR with composite upper receiver....I know it's not a hunting gun but....
It was so flexible that it earned the nickname "The Pool Noodle" and shot dinner plate groups at 100 yards with it's favorite ammo.
Had to put a spread open feed sack on backstop just to find the shots with other ammo.
Only gun I ever had that shot so bad I refused to sell it and put that on anybody else.
Used lower on another project and have stripped upper in a box somewhere.

A couple things about ammo. In general, a rifle does not like or dislike a "bullet". What the rifle dislikes is the load used with that bullet, meaning the powder and powder charge. (Yes, there are a few exceptions, but very rare). When you say "My rifle doesn't like this bullet", that is true and false at the same time. Yes, the ammo you are shooting with that bullet currently does not shoot well with this batch of ammo. But that doesn't mean that same bullet can not be loaded to shoot well.

Second, factory ammo will have about a 1.5 to 2.5 grain spread on the internal powder charges. When I pull bullets of factory ammo, I see this across the course for all of them. When I do load testing, I load my powder charges to .02 grains. My test loads are done in .3 to .5 grain increments. I'm covering an accuracy node with about 5 groups in 1.5 grains (in .3 grain increments) to 2.5 grains (.5 grain increments). I'll find a sweet spot within that range. When factory ammo is already varies that 1.5 to 2.5 grain spread, the accuracy and consistency will be all over the place.

I had a customer bring me a 300 WM and tell me their rifle does not like a 180 grain Accubond. The customer had tried 3 different brands with the same bullet to see what shot the best in his custom rifle and nothing shot good. I asked what his favorite bullet was, and he said the 180 Accubond, but that his rifle didn't like that bullet at all. I told him if that is the bullet he wants, let me work on it. I was able to get it to shoot sub half moa in his custom 300 WM. He was blown away I was able to get it dialed in with it. Again, it's not the "bullet" the rifle dislikes, it's the load used with that bullet. And factory ammo is of very poor quality.

Another thing, shooters purchase the cheapest ammo they can find and expect it to shoot match grade and tight groups. They get upset about it. What do you expect? I had a guy YESTERDAY tell me all about some Fiochi 300 blk out 150 FMJ ammo he was upset about that didn't shoot well. Why would you expect cheap ammo to be one hole groups and consistent? He said he couldn't get a solid zero due to so much POI shifts he was seeing. It's the lowest grade of ammo you can get.

Do you really believe all factory ammo is of very poor quality? I'd agree that some is, but not all. As you say the price of ammo is all over the place so quality will vary. He did get the rifle shooting very well with the factory Hornady ammo that the nice guy at the range loaned him. That's assuming the "bullets" was actually factory loaded Hornady ammo.

Abso freakin' lutely. Have you ever pulled bullets on factory ammo? Have you ever run extreme spread (ES) numbers on factory ammo? Yes, there are some that have decently low ES numbers. If you only shoot at 100 yards, you may never see that much of a difference. But for shooters who need ammo to be consistent and shoot well at longer range, factory ammo won't cut it. For example, Hornady's new 7 PRC. Just last week a guy came to me because he was chasing vertical groups at long range due to high ES on factory ammo. He was low, then he was high, and back a forth at long range. You will not see this at 100 yards. But for shooters who chrono the ammo and shoot high-end custom rifles, many times factory ammo can't keep up.

This was just shot on Wednesday by my customer. 28 Nosler with 175 ELDX. This is my standard load. The rifle was already dialed in and this was the first 4 shots. 1 round at 200 to confirm zero, and 3 shots at 1010 yards. 11 ES and about a 4"-5" group at 1010 yards. Good luck on getting factory ammo to within those kind of tolerances. I can't tell you how many calls I get about poor factory 28 Nosler ammo from Hornady and Nosler. And Nosler being the worst.

No, and yes. It was so close that you told me that something had to be wrong with my chronograph. I've shot and killed with Hornady ammo out to 550 yards. I shoot it year round, different lots out to 500 and it's been on the money for the last 8 years. I have way too many experiences from the field and range with factory ammo to believe that "all factory ammo is of poor quality".

Custom loads that you sell are better in some cases. But is the juice worth the squeeze? What is the charge to do load development to include 100 rounds of ammo? I shoot three off the shelf rifles, factory Hornady ammo, all 1/2" 100 yard groups. I shoot them on paper out to 200 and on steel (8"Ø) out to 4, sometimes 500 yards. I do like the consistency from the .300 Blackout ammo I buy from you, been consistent for a very long time. I also bought some of your .300 BO from KRoyal, it was also good. For that gun, you have what I need and can't get anything that good anywhere else. For my other hunting rifles, the Hornady I buy is great quality. To have something better than what I get from factory ammo may not be worth the $, if even possible.

I think it depends when talking factory ammo vs had loads. In general there is just very much less quality control on factory ammo. I have shot some great groups with factory stuff even green and yellow cheap factory stuff. Have also seen it with a 250+\- fps velocity spread.

Is it less good than a custom tuned load developed by someone who knows what they are doing? Most likely. Is it all poor quality? I’d say definitely not.

Chad, I don't want to dispute what you say, but I think you may have left something out. If you are shooting a bullet weight (which really translates bullet length) that is wrong for the twist, you'll get bad results. In that case, the problem really is the bullet. At least in my experience.

I agree with this. But again, it goes back to the requirement. If I can take ethical shots out to 500 yards with factory ammo, no need to change. The OP got it done with factory ammo that was a superior quality over what he started with.

Ok, let's not even talk about custom load development. This 28 Nosler ammo was my "standard" match ammo. Match ammo meaning, it's loaded single stage to within .02 grain powder charge consistency. On my 300 blkout ammo, it's made on a progressive press, which the powder charge is loaded by volume. I don't even consider my 300 blk out ammo match grade since it's loaded on a progressive press and the powder charges are not going to within .02 grains. On my 300 blk out ammo, you'll see probably 30-50 fps ES, which is perfectly fine for a 300 blk out. It's not a round you will be shooting long range, but you can. But it's a load I have worked on for years and dialed it in.

My point is, a shooter may never see or be able to tell the true quality of ammo when only shooting at 100 yards on paper. When getting a few rounds on target out to about 500 yards, you still may not even see a lot of variation. You may not be far enough out to see vertical at that distance. When you test the limits of factory ammo, you will quickly see it's limitations.

It makes me laugh when I talk to some customers and they compare Remington Core Lok ammo to my custom ammo. That tells me immediately they do not understand the differences of quality ammo. Some do balk at the price with that comparison. And my answer is generally they should stick with that lower-end Cor Lok.

That is 100% correct!! But why would a shooter try to get a bullet to work in a rifle with inadequate twist rate where the bullet is unstable?

On the topic of twist rates, you'd be amazed at what bullets will shoot well in certain twist rates. I see often (even on this forum) where guys say their 308 Winchester won't shoot a heavy (heavier) bullet in a 1:12" twist. I've worked up loads up to 200 grains with a 1:12" twist. And it shoot bug holes.

I currently have 2 factory Tikka T3 varmint rifles in 223 Rem that are 8" twist. My customer wants to shoot the 75 grain ELD-M out of both (he has a modified magazine to accept the longer COAL). One rifle shoots the 75 grain right at 1/2 moa, it's a hammer! The other rifle with the same exact loads (doing a load work up with varying powder charges) I can't get to shoot better than about 2 moa. I had some match ammo in my truck for my personal AR-15 ammo with a 68 grain BTHP, and it shot 5/8" right off the bat. I'll be trying a different powder (less aggressive powder) to keep dialing it in. We had 2 identical rifles and we were hoping to get one load for both rifles. Unfortunately, it won't work this time. (We originally wanted the 80 grain ELD-M but I had one bullet key hole, so we knew that wouldn't work)