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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: TurkeyHunter]
#8943441
10/25/23 07:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642 |
Hadn’t that moron ever heard of the Streisand Effect? oh I think he wins big if its unmasked. They slander and lied to destroy his business, a business that had zero to do with this. I dont agree with his first law suit on devaluation(dumb) but I do on this one Don’t you think the suit location is interesting? “Eshelman needs the identity of the J. Doe behind the fake email address to sue him or her in Germany and India for defamation, according to papers filed in U.S. District Court in the Northern District of California, San Jose Division.” No
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: DJ22]
#8943448
10/25/23 07:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,453
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,453 |
Regardless of ownership; if a travel easement has not been established and recorded, crossing private land is trespassing. If access to Federal land needs to be established, it is not the responsibility of the private land owner to initiate such an easement. The description of the easement is very specific; if it used for any other purpose, the private land owner can immediately reclaim the land (by fencing, ect.). It will then take court order to re/establish the access; which will be scrutinized if the judge is not bias. In the case of retrieval: it varies everywhere. In Texas, Game Officials will not force owners to allow access. In California, the law dictates that recovery of game is mandatory if possible. I’ve called Fish & Game, and they escorted me one time when the owner refused me access. If you give corner-crossers an inch, it will become a foot; then, a foot becomes a yard; a yard becomes a mile; ect. Very important for owners to “nip it in the bud” because un-objected access over time, and change of hands in ownership can create a “conditional use” or “grandfather” clause which can be difficult to defeat in court. Many years ago here, a landowner gave the Boy Scouts permission to access federal land through his property. The property sold and the new landowner put a stop to that. The Boy Scouts sued him to access the land through his property. It cost him quite a bit to defend his property but he won. This is just one example. You nailed it with the give an inch statement. It reminds me of people trying to pass gun control legislation.
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#8943564
10/25/23 10:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 19,903
TurkeyHunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 19,903 |
Should corner crossing be considered trespassing and illegal?
That would be a neat poll.
To be determined
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: TurkeyHunter]
#8943574
10/25/23 10:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,453
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,453 |
Should corner crossing be considered trespassing and illegal?
That would be a neat poll. Fire one up.
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8943586
10/25/23 10:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642 |
Should corner crossing be considered trespassing and illegal?
That would be a neat poll. Fire one up. do two, ask if it should be legal to fly drones in peoples backyards
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: DJ22]
#8943610
10/25/23 11:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 164
harge57
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 164 |
Regardless of ownership; if a travel easement has not been established and recorded, crossing private land is trespassing. If access to Federal land needs to be established, it is not the responsibility of the private land owner to initiate such an easement. The description of the easement is very specific; if it used for any other purpose, the private land owner can immediately reclaim the land (by fencing, ect.). It will then take court order to re/establish the access; which will be scrutinized if the judge is not bias. In the case of retrieval: it varies everywhere. In Texas, Game Officials will not force owners to allow access. In California, the law dictates that recovery of game is mandatory if possible. I’ve called Fish & Game, and they escorted me one time when the owner refused me access. If you give corner-crossers an inch, it will become a foot; then, a foot becomes a yard; a yard becomes a mile; ect. Very important for owners to “nip it in the bud” because un-objected access over time, and change of hands in ownership can create a “conditional use” or “grandfather” clause which can be difficult to defeat in court. Who is crossing private land? Corner crossing is stepping from public to public.
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#8943612
10/25/23 11:14 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 16
Stilhuntin
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 16 |
I think the landowner in question may have his ranch operations such as cattle grazing on the public land that borders his property or ranch employees, guests or others leasing the land use the public land for their enjoyment. Could be hunting, fishing or just roaming around on said property. If the land owner will not agree to allow some sort of corner crossing then the gov’t should post the land prevent any use what so ever for the land owner, his ranch activities (grazing) or ranch employees. Prosecute them for criminal trespass. That gate can swing both ways.
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8943789
10/26/23 07:01 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 19,903
TurkeyHunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 19,903 |
Should corner crossing be considered trespassing and illegal?
That would be a neat poll. Fire one up. I’m still mystified over the whole subject even after reading through the court information. My private personal opinions are clear to me. Seems corner crossings for federal lands are ok according to the courts. If I knew what I know now, 20 something years ago I’d have added a helicopter rating to my pilots license, acquired a Robinson, and along with a couple of friends, found some amazing federal land hunting, locked by private land.
To be determined
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: Stilhuntin]
#8943854
10/26/23 12:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,826
Wytex
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,826 |
I think the landowner in question may have his ranch operations such as cattle grazing on the public land that borders his property or ranch employees, guests or others leasing the land use the public land for their enjoyment. Could be hunting, fishing or just roaming around on said property. If the land owner will not agree to allow some sort of corner crossing then the gov’t should post the land prevent any use what so ever for the land owner, his ranch activities (grazing) or ranch employees. Prosecute them for criminal trespass. That gate can swing both ways. He has a grazing leases, not exclusive use of the fed lands. He had no lease for hunting or recreation. The enclosures act prohibits putting up anything that keeps folks off of public lands such as a high fence. Courts rules that going over the corner and using a portion of the air space was not trespassing. Turkey hunter Randy Newberg did the helicopter type hunts on landlocked private , you need a permit to land on federal I believe. Others have as well. We had a local pilot landing on a state section to hunt it and the adjacent LO got the state to sell the landlocked section to them.
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: TurkeyHunter]
#8943898
10/26/23 02:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642 |
Should corner crossing be considered trespassing and illegal?
That would be a neat poll. Fire one up. I’m still mystified over the whole subject even after reading through the court information. My private personal opinions are clear to me. Seems corner crossings for federal lands are ok according to the courts. If I knew what I know now, 20 something years ago I’d have added a helicopter rating to my pilots license, acquired a Robinson, and along with a couple of friends, found some amazing federal land hunting, locked by private land. this suit came about because WY had left their crossing law ambiguous. Other states define it definitively as yes or no. This ruling is WY specific only, I think more states will start having to define rather its legal or not
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: Wytex]
#8943899
10/26/23 02:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642 |
I think the landowner in question may have his ranch operations such as cattle grazing on the public land that borders his property or ranch employees, guests or others leasing the land use the public land for their enjoyment. Could be hunting, fishing or just roaming around on said property. If the land owner will not agree to allow some sort of corner crossing then the gov’t should post the land prevent any use what so ever for the land owner, his ranch activities (grazing) or ranch employees. Prosecute them for criminal trespass. That gate can swing both ways. He has a grazing leases, not exclusive use of the fed lands. He had no lease for hunting or recreation. The enclosures act prohibits putting up anything that keeps folks off of public lands such as a high fence. Courts rules that going over the corner and using a portion of the air space was not trespassing. Turkey hunter Randy Newberg did the helicopter type hunts on landlocked private , you need a permit to land on federal I believe. Others have as well. We had a local pilot landing on a state section to hunt it and the adjacent LO got the state to sell the landlocked section to them. Not sure on USNF but BLM use to have a non- commercial exemption. meaning as long as you weren't paying for the service you could.
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: harge57]
#8944160
10/26/23 09:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 169
DJ22
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 169 |
Who is crossing private land? Corner crossing is stepping from public to public.
Now I’m confused. We talking about airspace? Pilot just has to maintain proper AGL (above ground level) minimums based on what is on the ground (ie: populated areas; MOA’s; Livestock operations; AOA’s; ect.) Grazing is not considered a livestock operation. Crossing public land parcel to another public land parcel? I don’t see what the issue is there. I need to read article
Last edited by DJ22; 10/26/23 09:31 PM. Reason: Definition
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#8944169
10/26/23 09:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,453
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,453 |
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: DJ22]
#8945225
10/28/23 10:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642 |
Who is crossing private land? Corner crossing is stepping from public to public.
Now I’m confused. We talking about airspace? Pilot just has to maintain proper AGL (above ground level) minimums based on what is on the ground (ie: populated areas; MOA’s; Livestock operations; AOA’s; ect.) Grazing is not considered a livestock operation. Crossing public land parcel to another public land parcel? I don’t see what the issue is there. I need to read article
airspace trespass wasnt addressed, still an appeal coming. Possibility it goes to SCOTUS
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#8945232
10/28/23 10:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,642 |
meateater interview w/defendant's civil lawyer was really good for anyone curious.
one of the take aways was this was a surveyed corner with a survey marker, dont trust fences or online apps, find the survey marker. Last 10 min defines alot that could still happen.
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Re: Judge rules in favor of corner-crossing hunters
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8946818
10/31/23 01:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 951
GNTX
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 951 |
That article is wrong about the Causby case. This has been hashed out ad nauseam. The Causby case dealt with what amounted to a “government taking”, because the MILITARY aircraft flew low enough to deprive the landowner of his use of the land. It DID NOT establish a minimum height above private property which would constitute aerial trespass by private aircraft. If i was flying my drone 100 ft above your back yard, I am not trespassing with the aircraft.
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