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New Mexico Muzzleloader Hunting Law change #8916428 09/13/23 11:38 AM
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BillS2008 Online Content OP
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New Mexico hunters who take to the field in designated muzzleloader seasons will no longer be able to use scope sights on their guns, the state game commission voted Friday.
On the muzzleloader issue, the commission voted to approve a new, four-year “manner and method” rule setting regulations on hunting equipment. It also gave final approval to rules governing elk and deer hunting. Earlier this year, it approved rules for pronghorn, bighorn sheep and exotic species.

All the rules specify that hunters in designated muzzleloader hunts may not use scope sights. Hunters may continue to use scoped muzzleloaders in “any-legal-weapon” hunts that are also open for use with centerfire rifles.

Stewart Liley, head biologist for the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish, told commissioners on Friday that recent improvements in muzzleloader technology have made the guns nearly as efficient as centerfire rifles. If the commission wanted to continue to allow the use of scoped muzzleloaders in designated muzzleloader seasons, he said the commission would have to reduce the number of permits it offers to avoid unsustainable losses to game herds.

“What we’re seeing biologically is that the harvest is going to be unsustainable,” Liley said of the prospect of continuing to allow scoped muzzleloaders during designated muzzleloader seasons.

Liley said he expects that loss of animals to wounding by muzzleloaders may decrease under the prohibition against scoped muzzleloaders. Although scopes allow hunters to hit animals at long range, he said the animals may not give any indication that they’ve been hit so hunters may not follow up all their shots.

Commissioner Roberta Salazar-Henry cast the lone votes against the change on muzzleloaders. She said she was dissatisfied with the game department’s public education efforts on the issue and said she was concerned that 17,000 muzzleloader hunters will find out next year that they don’t have a chance to use their scoped muzzleloaders anymore.

Re: New Mexico Muzzleloader Hunting Law change [Re: BillS2008] #8917035 09/14/23 12:21 PM
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Lilley's wounding comments seem out in left field to me, but the accuracy and flat trajectories of modern scoped in-lines scarcely constitute anything remotely related to the much-reduced capabilities of a true historical muzzleloader. The inlines' efficiency as tools of harvest must be factored through the lens of success rates to achieve population management objectives. Some will say that prohibiting scopes in designated ML seasons will result in more wounding. That may be the case, but the blame must fall on the hunter who takes a shot he simply shouldn't have.

Re: New Mexico Muzzleloader Hunting Law change [Re: BillS2008] #8917175 09/14/23 03:37 PM
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Stewart Liley apparently makes the assumption that all hunters also have perfect eyesight and therefore do not need a scope! This is the same assumption that Colorado has made. As a result, those hunters who have any type vision difficulty will be forced to hunt only during rifle seasons. If a person is a "right handed shooter" and has bad vision in their right eye, he cannot accurately shoot his muzzleloader without the aide of a scope!!!!!

While they may be able to switch and become a left-handed shooter, it would take hours of practice to do so, and to attempt undo decades of being a right-handed shooter and remove the instincts that have become inert. He is also making the assumption that only muzzleloader hunters make bad shots and wound animals. He seems to not understand the fact that a muzzleloader hunter is logically a better and more accurate shooter, because they can only take one shot and it must be on target.

There are currently a number of rifle sight enhancements that can still be used besides a scope, and many shooters will now begin to utilize them. This regulation is nothing more than an appeasement for bow hunters that overlooks the fact that they too have gone far beyond the "primitive" standard for archery hunting. Today's modern bow can have hundreds of dollars of not only sighting enhancements but also the mechanical enhancements that they all possess allowing the hunter to take shots at much greater distances, thereby increasing the odds for wounding animals at a higher probability.

The primary result of this regulation will be the assumption that the hunter must be closer to the target in order to take the shot with a muzzleloader and that there will now be fewer muzzleloader hunters.

Both assumptions are incorrect.

Last edited by jdickey; 09/14/23 03:39 PM.

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Re: New Mexico Muzzleloader Hunting Law change [Re: jdickey] #8917275 09/14/23 06:33 PM
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kind of a big deal
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Originally Posted by jdickey
Stewart Liley apparently makes the assumption that all hunters also have perfect eyesight and therefore do not need a scope! This is the same assumption that Colorado has made. As a result, those hunters who have any type vision difficulty will be forced to hunt only during rifle seasons. If a person is a "right handed shooter" and has bad vision in their right eye, he cannot accurately shoot his muzzleloader without the aide of a scope!!!!!

While they may be able to switch and become a left-handed shooter, it would take hours of practice to do so, and to attempt undo decades of being a right-handed shooter and remove the instincts that have become inert. He is also making the assumption that only muzzleloader hunters make bad shots and wound animals. He seems to not understand the fact that a muzzleloader hunter is logically a better and more accurate shooter, because they can only take one shot and it must be on target.

There are currently a number of rifle sight enhancements that can still be used besides a scope, and many shooters will now begin to utilize them. This regulation is nothing more than an appeasement for bow hunters that overlooks the fact that they too have gone far beyond the "primitive" standard for archery hunting. Today's modern bow can have hundreds of dollars of not only sighting enhancements but also the mechanical enhancements that they all possess allowing the hunter to take shots at much greater distances, thereby increasing the odds for wounding animals at a higher probability.

The primary result of this regulation will be the assumption that the hunter must be closer to the target in order to take the shot with a muzzleloader and that there will now be fewer muzzleloader hunters.

Both assumptions are incorrect.



had nothing to do with that. Had every thing to do with sub stainable opportunity. They had two options.., keep regs and lower tags, vs change laws and increase tags.

success rates of 500 yard capable muzzle loaders where higher then rifle. when you have rut dates with essentially a rifle you have to either limit tags more or decrease success. They decreased success but gave more opportunity.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: New Mexico Muzzleloader Hunting Law change [Re: BillS2008] #8941462 10/22/23 11:38 PM
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All the smokeless muzzys just became irrelevant in NM. And now all those guns will have to be fitted with sights, since I have yet to see very many with anything other than an optic.


Are you going to pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?
Re: New Mexico Muzzleloader Hunting Law change [Re: Huckleberry75] #8941794 10/23/23 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Huckleberry75
All the smokeless muzzys just became irrelevant in NM. And now all those guns will have to be fitted with sights, since I have yet to see very many with anything other than an optic.


Some good peep sights out now. Gunwerks has a turret style open sight, Willams ghost ring is another good one.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

https://secure.qgiv.com/for/gtgoh/mobile
Re: New Mexico Muzzleloader Hunting Law change [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8943010 10/25/23 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Huckleberry75
All the smokeless muzzys just became irrelevant in NM. And now all those guns will have to be fitted with sights, since I have yet to see very many with anything other than an optic.


Some good peep sights out now. Gunwerks has a turret style open sight, Willams ghost ring is another good one.

Good to know!


Are you going to pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?
Re: New Mexico Muzzleloader Hunting Law change [Re: BillS2008] #8978243 12/26/23 12:33 AM
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For the government bureaucrats, it is about the money and not the hunting.

Herd management is how they justify their actions.

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