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Re: Wildcats
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8910981
09/01/23 10:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,534
kmon11
junior
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junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,534 |
I’m pretty sure every cartridge started as a wildcat technically. As mentioned earlier, the .270 Winchester was developed in house and for that reason, never really had a true following within the shooting community before being mass produced. IMO, there must be others who buy in over some length of time to the benefits the load produces in its performance and by making it themselves for it to be deemed a true wildcat. 270 Winchester was developed by Winchester when introduced they made rifle and factory ammo available so it never was a wildcat. .277 diameter bullets were created by Winchester for that cartridge here in the states at least and Winchester did not want a metric designation like 6.5 or 7mm so use .277 which might have come from a Chinese bullet that existed but not popular here. Basically the 270 is simply a 30-03 cartridge necked down for .277 diameter bullet.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8911010
09/01/23 11:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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I see now the OP may have been an attempt to recognize self-grown loads as being wildcats when they have no history or following at all within the shooting community. I could wildcat a .308 Winchester several times. 6-308 also known as .243 Winchester 6.5-308 also known as .260 Remington 7-308 also know as 7mm-08 Remington 338-308 also known as .338 Federal ^^Brass made for them now. No longer wildcat. I could also Wildcat 6.5 Creedmoor several times. 6mm Creedmoor 25 Creedmoor 22 Creedmoor ^^Brass made for them now. No longer wildcat.
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: kmon11]
#8911015
09/01/23 11:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,639
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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Wildcat cartridge designation is simply a name applied to a cartridge that has not been standardized by SAAMI or CIP with NO FACTORY AMMO AVAILABLE. If you are going to shoot a "wildcat" you will need to reload, buy ammo from a person or company that loads for that round and legal to sell it to you in order to do it legally.
This is my thoughts as well. Just because brass is made for a round doesn’t mean it’s not a wildcat any longer. 22 Creedmoor and 25 Creedmoor are good examples. Now that SAAMI has approved the 22 Creedmoor and Hornady is now producing ammunition it’s no longer a wildcat. The 25 Creedmoor unless I am mistaken would still be a wildcat as it’s not been submitted nor is there factory ammo that I have seen.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8911017
09/01/23 11:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,639
DStroud
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that did nothing to change the ballistic performance that first earned its designation as a wildcat cartridge. The designation is earned by ballistic performance? All this time I thought it was someone taking case dimensions and modifying them in an attempt to make something better and/or not already available. Dan you really enlighten me, thanks. You're most welcome. After all, it's improved ballistic performance that drives people to do all those other things to create wildcat cartridges. I'm sure few if any of them do it just because they enjoy playing with brass and gunpowder. So can we get the discussion back to cartridges that had a successful life before some ammo maker decided to hopefully make money selling them? Yea I would say that’s wrong too. “Improved” performance isn’t always the goal and there are many examples like the 300 Whisper AKA 300 Blackout don’t hold a candle to the 30-30 Win but a wildcat that became popular enough be standardized and my old favorite 6mm/223 aka 6x45 which is still very popular in certain circles and overseas but still hasn’t made it to mainstream standardization.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: 6mmguy]
#8911019
09/01/23 11:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 329
fredgus
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 329 |
25 gibbs, 270 gibbs, 6mm international, 257 ai,270 ashurst, 7stw, 30 imperial, 338 06, 30 338, Im sure Ive had other that I cant remember over the years, im kinda tired of fire forming brass nowdays though
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: 6mmguy]
#8911029
09/02/23 12:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,534
kmon11
junior
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junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,534 |
When new cartridge case is developed and made available to the public there will be people that like to tinker and have the ways and means to do it will neck it up or down to different diameter bullets and all those will be "wildcats" until they are made as commercial offerings. Cartridges of the world defines wildcat cartridges as cartridges that there is no factory ammo for or has never been available. That is shortened what a wildcat is defined as per Cartridges of the World which has a chapter dedicated to wildcats. Edit, to add we got off topic so lets guilty myself here but did post what wildcats I currently have
Last edited by kmon11; 09/02/23 03:13 AM.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: kmon11]
#8911082
09/02/23 03:52 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,272
Texas Dan
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Posts: 22,272 |
When new cartridge case is developed and made available to the public there will be people that like to tinker and have the ways and means to do it will neck it up or down to different diameter bullets and all those will be "wildcats" until they are made as commercial offerings. Custom barrel makers often play a pivotal role as well by creating something that will chamber modified designs of these existing casings.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: thedoveshooter]
#8911097
09/02/23 09:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,525
RiverRider
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2007
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One could argue (incorrectly, IMO) that the .256 Newton already claimed that placeholder in the catalog of commercial cartridges...but it's not really just an '06 case necked down to 6.5mm.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: 6mmguy]
#8911124
09/02/23 12:34 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 276
Graycard
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 276 |
25-223 and the 7.62x40 Both are highly accurate and are fun to play with.
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: 6mmguy]
#8911127
09/02/23 12:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,991
GasGuzzler
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,991 |
I'm not reading all that but anyone with half a brain knows that when a discussion is started about wildcat calibers, an obvious tenet of the topic is that the caliber being discussed is CURRENTLY a wildcat. Almost every cartridge design known to man had to be invented and therefore WAS a wildcat at some point. Bringing up any cartridge from 50+ years ago because it USED TO BE a wildcat is plain dumb.
Pass the gravy.
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8911134
09/02/23 12:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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When new cartridge case is developed and made available to the public there will be people that like to tinker and have the ways and means to do it will neck it up or down to different diameter bullets and all those will be "wildcats" until they are made as commercial offerings. Custom barrel makers often play a pivotal role as well by creating something that will chamber modified designs of these existing casings. So good at sticking your foot in your mouth. Custom barrel makers have nothing to do with it. They make calibers .17, .204, .224, .243, .257, .264, .277, .284, .308, .325, .338 Thousands of cartridges fit in that list. Tool and die makers play a role in new cartridges. Reamers have to be made, to ream out the barrel, brass has to be made or modified, and sizing/seating dies have to be made. Now is probably the easiest time in history to come up with a Wildcat. I've spoken to reamer makers and die makers. They will do the work, from a drawing. It will take a wait time and money, but can be done.
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: 6mmguy]
#8911138
09/02/23 01:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,038
pertnear
"Demolition Man"
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"Demolition Man"
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,038 |
When I was having fun building AR's, I built a 6x6.8 wildcat. It shot & functioned beautifully. Dies were easy & cheap since I just needed to get a 6mm bushing for my 6.8 SPC die. It was a fun diversion but nothing exciting. I sold the barrel & don't miss it.
The North has double last names. The South has double first names.
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: 6mmguy]
#8911160
09/02/23 02:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 1,506
Nolanco
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 1,506 |
My first was the .30 Herrett that kmon mentioned -- for a Contender with 10-inch barrel. I found the case forming much less onerous than expected, using a hardened RCBS trim die with a file. Apply Imperial wax, run her on up, saw off the excess, file her smooth and deburr. Had the TCUs in 6, 6.5 and 7mm. On the '06 case, 6.5-06, .338-06 and .400 Whelen. On the .30 WCF case family, a .35-30 that I should have kept, and a .25-35 Tomcat project, now in the capable hands of Dave Manson of reamer fame. It was based on blowing out the shoulder of the .25-35 in order to get the 117-grain RN up to about 2800 fps. It was designed around the hearth of Francis Sell's home near the Oregon Coast in company with Sell's friends Parker Ackley and Chick Donnelly, who knew a thing or two about wildcats and barrels. See Rifle issue No. 83 for more on this worthy wildcat.
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: 6mmguy]
#8912294
09/05/23 05:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,570
garyrapp55
Extreme Tracker
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: 6mmguy]
#8912322
09/05/23 06:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 880
218 Bee
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 880 |
Per the OPs question: I'm down to three wildcats...6x45, 6 TCU and .338-06AI.
Some interesting perspectives here. I'll choose two points to weigh in on:
1) Wildcatting is not now (nor has it EVER been) a driver in the non-standard cartridge development role. A rifled tube (custom or otherwise) neither knows nor cares what cartridge is stuffed in its bum. That's a function of chambering and chambering is the realm of the reamer wizards...always has been, always will be.
2) As much as I love my old .25-06, it ain't no wildcat. If it was old enough to have ".25 Neidner" stamped on it that would be an only slightly different story...but it doesn't. And it will STILL eat factory .25-06 ammo...that's been commercially available since '69!
"I always take care to fire into the nearest hillside and, lacking that, into darkness". - the late Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: 6mmguy]
#8912465
09/06/23 12:16 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,133
HandyMan91
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 3,133 |
No wildcats for me. Sounds like something I would enjoy if I had time and space though.
The only thing flat earthers have to fear is sphere itself
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: 6mmguy]
#8912537
09/06/23 02:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 329
fredgus
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 329 |
i left out 22 k hornet 22 creed and 6.5 06 and what else
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Re: Wildcats
[Re: 6mmguy]
#8914535
09/10/23 06:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,045
David Maas
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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A couple or three
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