Forums46
Topics538,972
Posts9,743,652
Members87,132
|
Most Online25,604 Feb 12th, 2024
|
|
|
?? about handgun jams
#8841560
04/27/23 01:53 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,780
J.R.
OP
Pro Tracker
|
OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,780 |
Occasionally in my spare time I will watch FB videos. Mostly funny dogs, great archery shots on hogs, Pigman...stuff like that to pass the time. But at some point FB offered me a video of an offer-involved shooting and I watched it. Then I watched another. Naturally, now FB throws them at me all day.
One thing I've noticed watching these videos is a absolutely disturbing number of handgun jams when SHTF. Not just 1-2...like, a lot. Most of the officers are clearly well-trained and pretty quick at clearing the jam, but a couple have been rendered useless in a gunfight by their gun jamming up entirely. So, I'm quite curious if someone in the know can help me understand why it happens that much. Is live-combat mis-handling of the guns causing those jams or is jamming just that frequent a problem?
Last edited by J.R.; 04/27/23 01:53 PM.
"First come smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire."
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8841587
04/27/23 02:20 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,249
blkt2
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,249 |
Shooting from awkward positions with your arms flailing around and you pulling the trigger faster than the gun can really cycle will lead to a jam pretty quickly. I've been shooting Beretta 92s for so long that I can work the trigger faster than the gun can cycle and while it does not cause a jam I do have to release the trigger to get it to reset before a shot can be fired. Personally that is the only gun I've ever experienced something like that with. There was a very famous killing of some police officers in California where a passerby picked up one of the officers Remington 870 shotguns and was not able to get a shot off. It was later determined that he wasn't able to work the action of the gun because there was a live round in the breach and it was ready to fire and he was trying to pump it before firing it. All kinds of squirrely stuff can happen when you panic.
Trolling? Heck no, I meant every word of it.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8841590
04/27/23 02:24 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,123
Ranch Dawg
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,123 |
Happens due to not keeping it cleaned. Most only shoot their guns at yearly qualifications. Never to be cleaned until the next qual,,,some never clean them. Crazy.
THE ROAD GOES ON FOREVER AND THE PARTY NEVER ENDS.
F##K YOU JOE BIDEN !!!!!
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8841601
04/27/23 02:45 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,280
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
|
Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,280 |
Occasionally in my spare time I will watch FB videos. Mostly funny dogs, great archery shots on hogs, Pigman...stuff like that to pass the time. But at some point FB offered me a video of an offer-involved shooting and I watched it. Then I watched another. Naturally, now FB throws them at me all day.
One thing I've noticed watching these videos is a absolutely disturbing number of handgun jams when SHTF. Not just 1-2...like, a lot. Most of the officers are clearly well-trained and pretty quick at clearing the jam, but a couple have been rendered useless in a gunfight by their gun jamming up entirely. So, I'm quite curious if someone in the know can help me understand why it happens that much. Is live-combat mis-handling of the guns causing those jams or is jamming just that frequent a problem?
Jams happen, shoot enough competitions and you'll see every gun under the sun jam. Just the nature of the beast. I've seen a full spectrum from $5K custom 2011's be jamomatics down to the $400 Glocks jam up. Most competition shooters are very fast at clearing the jam and continue shooting like nothing happened.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8841606
04/27/23 02:51 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,898
The Dude Abides
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,898 |
#1 reason...people do NOT know how to handle and shoot their guns. Weak grips and limp wrists are the primary cause. Control the firearm, don't let the firearm control you.
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8841665
04/27/23 04:23 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,485
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,485 |
It's because they are showing videos where malfunctions occur to make it more interesting to watch. We had around 5-6 out of more than a hundred during my career. Of those few, most were during well below freezing temperatures when gun oil wasn't as developed as it is today.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: The Dude Abides]
#8841666
04/27/23 04:23 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,717
QuitShootinYoungBucks
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,717 |
#1 reason...people do NOT know how to handle and shoot their guns. Weak grips and limp wrists are the primary cause. Control the firearm, don't let the firearm control you. Boom. Gun loses too much energy moving their arm/hand, which leads to the slide not operating correctly.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8841697
04/27/23 05:10 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,593
TexFlip
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,593 |
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8841716
04/27/23 05:36 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,749
BigPig
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,749 |
Crazy [censored] happens to the human body when fight or flight kicks in. Most officers will take the fight, but you also have to get off the X or it will be a short fight. You train in a perfect world so that when SHTF and the adrenaline dumps and your fine motor skills exit the game and become gross motor skills, you can still function enough to win.
I had an incident a few years ago where I was taken down by a handcuffed prisoner as his partner was pulling out a revolver. I had my gun drawn and was basically using the partner as a human shield. When I went down I caught my sights on the fender and tire, racking the slide just enough to cause a stove pipe. I knew I was about to pop up into a gun battle and I came up from behind that fender already slacking out the trigger. I was right, gun fight was on! I pulled my trigger probably 50 times while I watched the cylinder of his pistol turn. It wasn’t until he stopped to look at his gun did I notice the stove pipe on mine. I dropped to cover, clear the jam, rip the mag and put in a fresh one, roll to back of car to get off the X, rise up and he hauling [censored] away.
Sometimes [censored] just happens for an unknown reason. I truly believe that God didn’t want either of us to die that day. All 6 rounds in his revolver had hard primer strikes, not 1 round went off.
Wade Dews, REALTOR ® Rendon Realty, LLC Frontline Real Estate Team www.RendonRealty.comWadeDews@gmail.com 214-356-2410 Up to 1% for closing costs for First Responders & Veterans Proudly partnered with Assist The Officer Foundation https://atodallas.org/
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8841719
04/27/23 05:37 PM
|
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,243
Smokey Bear
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,243 |
The age old debate. Auto-loader with higher capacity vs revolver with a higher degree of reliability….
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: BigPig]
#8841721
04/27/23 05:42 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,585
hetman
"Trash Master"
|
"Trash Master"
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,585 |
Crazy [censored] happens to the human body when fight or flight kicks in. Most officers will take the fight, but you also have to get off the X or it will be a short fight. You train in a perfect world so that when SHTF and the adrenaline dumps and your fine motor skills exit the game and become gross motor skills, you can still function enough to win.
I had an incident a few years ago where I was taken down by a handcuffed prisoner as his partner was pulling out a revolver. I had my gun drawn and was basically using the partner as a human shield. When I went down I caught my sights on the fender and tire, racking the slide just enough to cause a stove pipe. I knew I was about to pop up into a gun battle and I came up from behind that fender already slacking out the trigger. I was right, gun fight was on! I pulled my trigger probably 50 times while I watched the cylinder of his pistol turn. It wasn’t until he stopped to look at his gun did I notice the stove pipe on mine. I dropped to cover, clear the jam, rip the mag and put in a fresh one, roll to back of car to get off the X, rise up and he hauling [censored] away.
Sometimes [censored] just happens for an unknown reason. I truly believe that God didn’t want either of us to die that day. All 6 rounds in his revolver had hard primer strikes, not 1 round went off. Thats a mindbender !
"Lesser mortals are pitied for the misfortune in not being born Texan."
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: BigPig]
#8841724
04/27/23 05:44 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,780
J.R.
OP
Pro Tracker
|
OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,780 |
Crazy [censored] happens to the human body when fight or flight kicks in. Most officers will take the fight, but you also have to get off the X or it will be a short fight. You train in a perfect world so that when SHTF and the adrenaline dumps and your fine motor skills exit the game and become gross motor skills, you can still function enough to win.
I had an incident a few years ago where I was taken down by a handcuffed prisoner as his partner was pulling out a revolver. I had my gun drawn and was basically using the partner as a human shield. When I went down I caught my sights on the fender and tire, racking the slide just enough to cause a stove pipe. I knew I was about to pop up into a gun battle and I came up from behind that fender already slacking out the trigger. I was right, gun fight was on! I pulled my trigger probably 50 times while I watched the cylinder of his pistol turn. It wasn’t until he stopped to look at his gun did I notice the stove pipe on mine. I dropped to cover, clear the jam, rip the mag and put in a fresh one, roll to back of car to get off the X, rise up and he hauling [censored] away.
Sometimes [censored] just happens for an unknown reason. I truly believe that God didn’t want either of us to die that day. All 6 rounds in his revolver had hard primer strikes, not 1 round went off. THAT sounds hairy as Hell!
"First come smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire."
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8841742
04/27/23 06:19 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,249
blkt2
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,249 |
Crazy [censored] happens to the human body when fight or flight kicks in. Most officers will take the fight, but you also have to get off the X or it will be a short fight. You train in a perfect world so that when SHTF and the adrenaline dumps and your fine motor skills exit the game and become gross motor skills, you can still function enough to win.
I had an incident a few years ago where I was taken down by a handcuffed prisoner as his partner was pulling out a revolver. I had my gun drawn and was basically using the partner as a human shield. When I went down I caught my sights on the fender and tire, racking the slide just enough to cause a stove pipe. I knew I was about to pop up into a gun battle and I came up from behind that fender already slacking out the trigger. I was right, gun fight was on! I pulled my trigger probably 50 times while I watched the cylinder of his pistol turn. It wasn’t until he stopped to look at his gun did I notice the stove pipe on mine. I dropped to cover, clear the jam, rip the mag and put in a fresh one, roll to back of car to get off the X, rise up and he hauling [censored] away.
Sometimes [censored] just happens for an unknown reason. I truly believe that God didn’t want either of us to die that day. All 6 rounds in his revolver had hard primer strikes, not 1 round went off. THAT sounds hairy as Hell! Harry? What are you talking about? I'd be high as a kite happy for days after that.
Trolling? Heck no, I meant every word of it.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: Smokey Bear]
#8841746
04/27/23 06:22 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,249
blkt2
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,249 |
The age old debate. Auto-loader with higher capacity vs revolver with a higher degree of reliability…. I've seen countless times where a gunsmith will shorten the screw that touches the hammer spring on a Smith & Wesson revolver in an effort to get a reduced trigger pull. Usually the guns will no longer fire with imported ammo because PPU and S&B and most European ammo in general has harder primers. It works fine with domestically produced stuff. This is such a common problem that I keep brand new screws handy to replace the shortened ones with. The gunsmith at Ray's Hardware does this on darn near every Smith & Wesson he gets his hands on and it drives me batty.
Trolling? Heck no, I meant every word of it.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8841772
04/27/23 07:19 PM
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 191
driftwood257
Woodsman
|
Woodsman
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 191 |
In my experience bad/cheap ammo will do this . A bunch .
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8841950
04/28/23 12:08 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,910
luv2brode
Extreme Tracker
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,910 |
I would be interested in what the “jams” are. In a fight for your life a lot can go wrong, grip could be bad, is the slide release being engaged, there is a long list of things that can induce a malfunction and the square range only trains you for so much.
i am cancelling my subscription, i am tired of your issues!
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: driftwood257]
#8842118
04/28/23 06:26 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,485
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,485 |
In my experience bad/cheap ammo will do this . A bunch . Quality ammunition for duty use is used by even the smallest of agencies.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8842207
04/28/23 01:23 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,476
RedRanger
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,476 |
My uncle got into a fight with a Dallas Cop many years ago, they were out drinking with a group of friend and I think a fight broke out
Off Duty pull guns and tries to shot and it jams, my Uncle beat him up pretty bad and got arrested. They had him charged with attempted capital murder or something similar, it was when I was 20 years old, Grand Jury No Billed him
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8842267
04/28/23 03:02 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,170
Brother in-law
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,170 |
Please share a video as an example.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: Brother in-law]
#8842272
04/28/23 03:18 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,280
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
|
Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,280 |
Please share a video as an example. My 1911 jammed a bunch in competition but this is the only time my Glock jammed. 2 minute mark. Factory Federal 124gr 9mm.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8842283
04/28/23 03:41 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,249
blkt2
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,249 |
In the failure you just showed in the video of did a cartridge fail to feed or did it fail to eject all the way?
Trolling? Heck no, I meant every word of it.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: blkt2]
#8842285
04/28/23 03:45 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,280
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
|
Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,280 |
In the failure you just showed in the video of did a cartridge fail to feed or did it fail to eject all the way? I really don't remember was around 3 years ago at my first USPSA competition. I cleared it so fast and kept shooting I don't really know what happened.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: KRoyal]
#8842289
04/28/23 03:49 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,898
The Dude Abides
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,898 |
Please share a video as an example. My 1911 jammed a bunch in competition but this is the only time my Glock jammed. 2 minute mark. Factory Federal 124gr 9mm. Great job for being your first shooting event. You did exactly what you should have done, cleared the stoppage and kept going.
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: The Dude Abides]
#8842324
04/28/23 04:53 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,280
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
|
Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,280 |
Please share a video as an example. My 1911 jammed a bunch in competition but this is the only time my Glock jammed. 2 minute mark. Factory Federal 124gr 9mm. Great job for being your first shooting event. You did exactly what you should have done, cleared the stoppage and kept going. Thanks I had a blast shooting pistol comps, but just don't have much time anymore. Rimfire PRS has taken all of my competition shooting time I have left now. Really want to get back into it when my son gets old enough to compete.
|
|
|
Re: ?? about handgun jams
[Re: J.R.]
#8842646
04/29/23 02:01 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,854
Adchunts
Pro Tracker
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,854 |
Over the years, I’ve had a couple of no-fires even with good primer strike. All were with higher-end factory ammo. One cost me a tank 8-point. I’m not suggesting at all that bad primers cause the issue JR refers to, but just a reminder stuff does happen and you better be able to deal with it when it happens. Missing a big buck sucks, but getting shot by a bad guy sucks way more.
Last edited by Adchunts; 04/29/23 02:03 AM. Reason: Spelling
|
|
|
Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, hetman, jeh7mmmag, JustWingem, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, rifleman, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
|