Long Long time friend came in today from Arkansas to enlist my help on duplicating the Hornady 28 Nosler factory ammo loaded with the 162gr ELD-X.
His Swarovski scope was calibrated with it using velocity printed on box at 3175fps.
He and I loaded ladders with both Retumbo( my preferred powder) and H1000 with neither loaded all the way to Max in the Hornady manual but the top loads were max in the Nosler book.
So first we needed to see how fast the Hornady ammo was really going…. I am thinking 3150ish with his 24 inch Carbon barrel which is a factory Christensen by the way.
Well I was wrong way wrong 3320/ 3299/3320 with slick extraction no excessive pressure signs at all.
Well that’s interesting but hey we should be able to duplicate that with our ladders.
Our starting loads were 3240 with Retumbo and H1000 was 3199.
The Retumbo starting load was sticky and the next step up locked up the bolt and I am still two grains under max in both books? So looks like 3150 is about all I am going to get with Retumbo.

No luck with H1000 either same scenario my starting load was Max in this rifle at 3199 so I guess we will just be happy we can duplicate the speed on the box just not the actual ammo speed.
That doesn’t happen very often. Really liked the looks of the Retumbo load as it shot exact same point of impact as factory and ES was 4 fps but can’t be running hunting fodder that close to the edge.
Anyway Hornady must have some pretty dialed in powder is all I can say.

Interesting…

I’ve had no pressure signs to over 3200 (26”) with either LRT or 869. To be honest, I’ve passed 3200 without really trying to test the limits. Hornady 162 eld-x, of course. Bergara Ridgeline 1:9.5 (ugh). All velocities were taken on a LabRadar.

You still won’t use Hornady

Mostly true...I have some of their brass but it's the bottom rung of quality...amax and vmax are decent bullets but I've seen enough eld's pencil I'm out. When my 162 eld-x's run out on my AR10 pig gun...I won't buy more and I won't shoot them at something that matters.

They are the Walmart of bullet and brass manufacturers...still good info for DS to share and to know. Knowledge is power BP

David, how full of powder is the factory ammo? Can you hear powder shake inside or is it a compressed load? With those factory velocities, the only way to get those speeds is a slow burning double base powder. Most likely a ball powder. I'd like to see what their powder looks like, and how much of it is in there. My guess around 88 to 92 grains of powder, maybe a little more. With the right powder, it's certainly possible. We've run the 180's in the 3200+ fps range.

Old school meet new school. I have settled down some with age but, I do still like to go fast. Get Winchester cases. Buy twice what you need. If you do all the prep work then cull and sort hard, what you are left with will be more than consistent enough for your purpose. It will also have a generous internal capacity. You can parley that into a velocity boost. Then pick up a second boost by loading one of the new more energetic double base powders.

Any chance those chronograph numbers with the Hornady factory ammo were erroneous?

It is more than it isn't.

Getting DOPE on lots of factory Hornady ammo, the ammo is usually significantly slower than what is printed on the box.

MV gets nailed down 600 to 800 yards. It always tells the truth. Working backward into the ballistic calculator, I usually get within 10-20 fps of good chronograph data.

And Hornady uses a 24" test barrel. I've seen Christensen 28 Noslers with 22" barrels.

I got a hundo that says DS was shooting next to a lab radar....he ain't guessing numbers, this isn't a rookie we are speaking about.

If forced at gunpoint to assume anything at all, that would be my guess. Nobody's pointing a gun at me at the moment, though.

My money is on a proprietary double based powder.

Wouldn't be the first time.

Yes chronograph was Lab Radar so pretty confident in the numbers. Also I will pull a factory once I return home for inspection but absolutely know it’s a special blended powder that’s not off the shelf stuff.

How good was his laser cut dial or calibration if his input was actually 125-150fps slower than actual?

Ive never seen factory ammo run faster than advertised but I’ve seen a few run close to it.

Was that ammo the “Precision Hunter” or some superformance variant??

He had only shot the rifle out to 500 yds and he said it was shooting high at distance which makes sense considering velocity and yes it was the Precision Hunter ammo.
I too normally see the ammo close to advertised but usually a little shy but not this stuff.
Thus the post.
I have chronographed the 223 Superformance several years ago when it first hit the shelves and it was the fastest stuff I had seen from factory…..even duplicated my hot N133 load.
Which is one of the reasons I don’t really buy into the 5.56 ammo loaded hotter as it normally doesn’t come close to Superformance 223 stuff in performance/speed.
Hornady has access to the newest special blend wonder powders that we don’t at this point so I am just going to try some High Energy stuff and get as close as I can.

They also have access to R&D tools that are well beyond the reach of the everyday reloader.

A Metromess Police Sniper team is shooting Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 147 gr ELD-M.

Chrono data showed 200 fps less velocity than what was printed on the box.

I know better than to do this but curiosity also killed the cat. Specifically what R&D tools would make the speed of this ammo what it is?

R&D tools that focus on bullet construction and performance, including velocities created at the muzzle and at various downrange distances.

Hornady offers several videos that reflect why Hornady engineers focus much of their attention on the bullet, rather than the powder pushing it. Of course, the everyday reloader is limited to working with whatever powders and bullets are commercially available. Hornady engineers enjoy the luxury of performing R&D on both.

I guess you could perform your own modifications to whatever bullets and powders are available to you, but I digress.

Link

Well, there you have it, Judd, a perfectly good if not excellent NON-ANSWER to your question.

Thanks...same bullet was used by both DS and the factory Hornady ammo. I get now you were referencing and commenting more on the statement about them having access to special powders than you were the OP topic.

There isn't any R&D tools that would make the factory load faster than loads we can make besides propellent/case capacity/primer (primer possibly but that's stretching it in my experience).

C'mon man. If you I gave you one of the many reasons why bullet construction impacts velocities at and beyond the muzzle, you wouldn't watch the video.

The bullet is the same in the thread subject ammo as Hornady factory ammo, so how does the bullet make the difference in velocity in this example.

Hornady does have access to powders that the reloader does not though and has used them in their factory ammo. Examples Lightmag, Superformance and Leverevolution lines of Hornady ammo. Leverevolution was made available by Hodgdon several years later under that name and is the same powder Hornady had been using for some time as an example.

^^^ Yep it is the powder.
We had an ammo manufacturer go out of business here in town, they could not sell the powder to the public but other "components " of the business were sold to pay off folks locally they had stiffed. Big reloading presses and such but everyone was interested in the powder.