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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#8825914
03/30/23 12:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,037
huntingbig8
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14 minutes, I guess that's not too bad, and they stopped the threat. Here's how I think about it. There are 9330 public schools in Texas. We can pay to have trained personnel at every school, some schools would need one, some would need 2, maybe 3. Most small schools would need one. On average, let's say there are double the amount trained personnel than schools, so 18,660 trained officers. Pay them about 65,000 a year, would be $1.2 Billion in funds. Provide them a quality AR-15 and optic, about $1500 each, and gear, of about another $500 or so. That's about $37 Million. Total, that's about $1.25 Billion for Texas to pay to have multiple armed and trained personnel on site at every Texas public school. You could cut down the response time and have a show of force already there. It turns a soft target location into hard target location and should decrease the attempts of school shootings. Why can't we push for something like this!!?? What the hell are you doing using common sense?
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8825917
03/30/23 01:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,907
crazyal
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I think going back to Chads original post these would need to be just armed security officers not SROs. SROs get tied up dealing with dope, minor fights, in general just shiihead kids. Dealing with juvenile arrest is a PITA too. You need multiple armed officers per school even small schools as already discussed. You might attract a lot of retirees to the job and a lot of wannabe cops and soldiers to this job and due to boredom probably still have a high turnover rate.
Texas has the Guardian and Marshal programs for teachers to be armed. Schools should give an incentive for teachers to be in the programs and the schools should pay for some training. As far as the teacher being armed I’d rather the teacher have a weapon on their person than locked up.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: der Teufel]
#8825923
03/30/23 01:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,642
DQ Kid
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I'm all in favor of allowing teachers to be armed, but realize that many won't do it. Even the teachers who are willing to keep a firearm in their desk likely won't be doing a lot of training and, as Mike Tyson supposedly once said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". I was in the Army, including a year in Vietnam. A lot of guys, including me, thought they'd be pretty tough when the shooting started. Then the shooting started. When the bullets start flying a lot of people react defensively. Believing that every teacher with a gun will suddenly become a Danger Ranger is not realistic. I think the best strategy for a teacher would be to stuff a kid's sneaker under the door to make it hard to open, then put the kids in one corner with the teacher in another location ready to shoot through the door if a bad guy tries to enter. Expecting teachers to leave their classroom and hunt down an active shooter is asking a lot. Well said and very true, talk is cheap, actions cost and take a lot more. I wouldn't have trusted 50% or more of the folks I did Army Basic with to help defend themselves or us. Lot easier to duck and run than to stand one's ground and fight and defend. Just the plain truth. I still go back to that cowardly sheriff's deputy at Parkland, FL that left the school and shooter inside, unopposed once shots started flying...
Last edited by DQ Kid; 03/30/23 01:19 PM.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8825928
03/30/23 01:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,948
Davis300
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Our idiotic government needs to quit sending money to foreign countries and illegals. Pay teachers more (and first responders) and pay for qualified armed security on campuses.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8825950
03/30/23 01:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,928
The Dude Abides
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School districts are idiots. There are a plethora of qualified veterans and retirees that can volunteer and man a post on just about every school campus across the country.
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: The Dude Abides]
#8825989
03/30/23 02:53 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,690
SherpaPhil
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School districts are idiots. There are a plethora of qualified veterans and retirees that can volunteer and man a post on just about every school campus across the country. I don't want some random geriatric Rambo wannabe trading his perch at the local gun shop for a role defending school kids. I don't think this is a role suited to volunteers.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8825999
03/30/23 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,253
DeRico
Mobius 1
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Posts: 2,253 |
You don’t need to pay anybody to have armed security, just let volunteer dads patrol school grounds. I bet if your children’s school asked for volunteers, the list would be full quick. Just another reason to get your LTC
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8826030
03/30/23 04:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,338
deerfeeder
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I might be way off base here, but from what I remember from when the girls were in school and later observations I think most teachers are of the Liberal persuasion and are against weapons. You may get a few that are capable and willing to tote a gun in some districts, but there is a likelihood in some districts where the students could, and or, would disarm the teacher.
They can find trained folks if they are willing to actually spend the money to protect the kids.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: SherpaPhil]
#8826034
03/30/23 04:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,189
Brother in-law
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School districts are idiots. There are a plethora of qualified veterans and retirees that can volunteer and man a post on just about every school campus across the country. I don't want some random geriatric Rambo wannabe trading his perch at the local gun shop for a role defending school kids. I don't think this is a role suited to volunteers. I agree. A lot of gun toting idiots
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8826038
03/30/23 04:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,338
deerfeeder
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14 minutes was not a bad response time, given that the police were not parked out front of the school. Even running lights and sirens, doesn't give them immunity from driving responsibly. How far away were there when the call came in? These guys did a damned good job...period.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: deerfeeder]
#8826042
03/30/23 04:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,032
unclebubba
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14 minutes was not a bad response time, given that the police were not parked out front of the school. Even running lights and sirens, doesn't give them immunity from driving responsibly. How far away were there when the call came in? These guys did a damned good job...period. Given the circumstances, you are correct. Imagine how fast the response time would have been if they were already in the building. This gives me an idea. Place an office for PD in every school. A place where any patrol officer or Detective can stop in and do paperwork, get a cup of coffee, lunch, etc. It may not be staffed 100% of the time, but I bet there would be an officer there quite a bit of the time during the day.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8826045
03/30/23 04:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,045
Western
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x train qualified teachers as local leo in their jurisdiction and pay them more.
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Brother in-law]
#8826062
03/30/23 05:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,546
ntxtrapper
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School districts are idiots. There are a plethora of qualified veterans and retirees that can volunteer and man a post on just about every school campus across the country. I don't want some random geriatric Rambo wannabe trading his perch at the local gun shop for a role defending school kids. I don't think this is a role suited to volunteers. I agree. A lot of gun toting idiots Yep.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8826128
03/30/23 07:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,928
The Dude Abides
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Posts: 9,928 |
School districts are idiots. There are a plethora of qualified veterans and retirees that can volunteer and man a post on just about every school campus across the country. I don't want some random geriatric Rambo wannabe trading his perch at the local gun shop for a role defending school kids. I don't think this is a role suited to volunteers. I agree. A lot of gun toting idiots [quote=The Dude Abides]School districts are idiots. There are a plethora of qualified veterans and retirees that can volunteer and man a post on just about every school campus across the country. I don't want some random geriatric Rambo wannabe trading his perch at the local gun shop for a role defending school kids. I don't think this is a role suited to volunteers. I agree. A lot of gun toting idiots Yep. Yep...Uvalde comes to mind. But wait, we want untrained or under-trained teachers to carry guns in schools? Where's the logic?
Last edited by The Dude Abides; 03/30/23 07:32 PM.
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8826142
03/30/23 07:41 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,402
Dave Davidson
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I’ve said it before: The Uvalde problem was chickenshit cops. Remember the live pics on TV of the cops in the hall backing away when they heard shots? Those shots were children being slaughtered. No $, no program, is going to overcome that. The cops didn’t have a dog in the fight. Trained parents would.
Last edited by Dave Davidson; 03/30/23 07:45 PM.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8826144
03/30/23 07:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,152
2000cbr929
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There were parents begging to get in that day.
After eating Payne's sausage I don't know if I can go back to the regular store bought stuff. "Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money" Tom T Hall
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8826172
03/30/23 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 34,274
Buzzsaw
OP
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Full MILITARY Uniforms, Body Armor, Full Auto weapons
VISIBLE presents.
There are hundreds of companies who do this all over the world. Unfortunately, America needs it now.
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#8826396
03/31/23 06:34 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,546
ntxtrapper
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I’ve said it before: The Uvalde problem was chickenshit cops. Remember the live pics on TV of the cops in the hall backing away when they heard shots? Those shots were children being slaughtered. No $, no program, is going to overcome that. The cops didn’t have a dog in the fight. Trained parents would. Cherry picking one incident, out of all the times officers have responded appropriately to active shooting situations, doesn’t prove much.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Brother in-law]
#8826403
03/31/23 10:03 AM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,407
onlysmith&wesson
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School districts are idiots. There are a plethora of qualified veterans and retirees that can volunteer and man a post on just about every school campus across the country. I don't want some random geriatric Rambo wannabe trading his perch at the local gun shop for a role defending school kids. I don't think this is a role suited to volunteers. I agree. A lot of gun toting idiots True. But, there are at least a dozen gun carriers in my neighborhood that are not. I have an Elementary school right behind my house that I share an alley with. A solid program with properly vetted and trained volunteers would be very easy for this one school to manage if they had the will and right to do so.
Last edited by onlysmith&wesson; 03/31/23 10:05 AM.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#8826415
03/31/23 11:22 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,296
blkt2
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I’ve said it before: The Uvalde problem was chickenshit cops. Remember the live pics on TV of the cops in the hall backing away when they heard shots? Those shots were children being slaughtered. No $, no program, is going to overcome that. The cops didn’t have a dog in the fight. Trained parents would. What happened in Uvalde is a perfect display of an institutionalized mindset. When leadership refuses to lead the troops get stuck in one spot and momentum is lost. Once momentum is gone it's almost impossible to regain it. Someone lower on the command structure than the chief should have rallied everyone and made their assault. Even if every officer involved in the first assault died there was enough manpower pouring in that multiple waves of assaults could have been done. A single person taking charge is all that it would have taken.
Trolling? Heck no, I meant every word of it.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8826420
03/31/23 11:52 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
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Full MILITARY Uniforms, Body Armor, Full Auto weapons
VISIBLE presents.
There are hundreds of companies who do this all over the world. Unfortunately, America needs it now. I would switch schools if my child’s school did that.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#8826438
03/31/23 12:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,296
blkt2
Veteran Tracker
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Full MILITARY Uniforms, Body Armor, Full Auto weapons
VISIBLE presents.
There are hundreds of companies who do this all over the world. Unfortunately, America needs it now. I would switch schools if my child’s school did that. I wouldn't send my kids to a school like that either unless I was the one standing there with a rifle and even then I would be very discreet. I'm pretty sure about the same number of kids have been killed by tornadoes hitting schools as there have been killed by school shooters. I don't see anyone running around saying we need to build schools stronger to prevent damage and death from tornadoes but doing so would also make them a lot harder for a mass shooter to get into.
Trolling? Heck no, I meant every word of it.
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: The Dude Abides]
#8826456
03/31/23 01:13 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,189
Brother in-law
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Great another worthless news story
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Re: 14 minute response time??
[Re: The Dude Abides]
#8826465
03/31/23 01:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,747
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
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Kids are getting their "training" from video games. Games today are very realistic and have basic and advanced tactics built into them. Not hard to figure out Hell, LE use video training to some degree as well. JMO of course. lol, thats not training. Riding a stick horse doesnt make you a competitive bronc rider or reigning champion. You are essentially saying watch enough monday night foot ball and you can play on Sat or Sundays…. you know all the advanced techniques and stuff. video games give a false sense of competence… which can go either way, depending on if you think it empowers or makes shooters more incompetent
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