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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: erathar]
#8781674
01/16/23 06:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 93
jdangler
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 93 |
How would the trust possess the stabilizing brace before when it was not required to have a stamp? Trust doesn't have to possess the stabilizing brace, it does need to possess the firearm you are using the brace on (ie lower up are using the brace with, or purchased firearm that came with a brace).
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: scot]
#8781678
01/16/23 06:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,522
syncerus
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,522 |
Judging by some of the responses on this thread, I’d say the Democrats strategy of divide and conquer is doing pretty well. I hope those of you who don’t like bump stocks and pistol braces will remember these discussions when you are restricted to only three or five approved rifles or shotguns as in Europe. The smug complacency on this board is amazing.
NRA Patriot Benefactor & DSC Lifer
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: scot]
#8781775
01/16/23 08:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,584
Gumbeaux
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,584 |
I bought an AR pistol a few months back knowing this was in the works. Rumor back then was a grace period with no tax stamp so I figured worst case, I get an SBR w/o paying the $200.
I am actually a little surprised that the ATF went forward with this though. It just opened the door for a court case and it's going to get fast tracked because it has a deadline affecting several million Americans. The courts have not been friendly to regulators lately and I doubt they will be here, either. My hope is that once SCOTUS cracks the door on this one with the ATF, that the NRA kicks it open and goes after everything the ATF has ever "regulated".
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: Gumbeaux]
#8781822
01/16/23 09:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 29,177
TXHOGSLAYER
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 29,177 |
I bought an AR pistol a few months back knowing this was in the works. Rumor back then was a grace period with no tax stamp so I figured worst case, I get an SBR w/o paying the $200.
I am actually a little surprised that the ATF went forward with this though. It just opened the door for a court case and it's going to get fast tracked because it has a deadline affecting several million Americans. The courts have not been friendly to regulators lately and I doubt they will be here, either. My hope is that once SCOTUS cracks the door on this one with the ATF, that the NRA kicks it open and goes after everything the ATF has ever "regulated".
NRA has and will continue to do nothing. GOA will probably get something done though.
LETS GO BRANDON
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: scot]
#8781858
01/16/23 10:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,234
gusick
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,234 |
I don't see much difference between this and the 2017 bump stock ban. A federal court just struck that down, but it will get appealed to the Supreme Court. The mechanical arguments against bump stocks was not much of a factor in court, the argument was mostly about agency power. I don't think there will be any difference between bump stock and pistol braces, in that regard.
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: TXHOGSLAYER]
#8781918
01/16/23 11:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,910
luv2brode
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,910 |
I bought an AR pistol a few months back knowing this was in the works. Rumor back then was a grace period with no tax stamp so I figured worst case, I get an SBR w/o paying the $200.
I am actually a little surprised that the ATF went forward with this though. It just opened the door for a court case and it's going to get fast tracked because it has a deadline affecting several million Americans. The courts have not been friendly to regulators lately and I doubt they will be here, either. My hope is that once SCOTUS cracks the door on this one with the ATF, that the NRA kicks it open and goes after everything the ATF has ever "regulated".
NRA has and will continue to do nothing. GOA will probably get something done though. Yep nra is worthless and continues to side w anti gunners more and more, just plain silly
i am cancelling my subscription, i am tired of your issues!
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: scot]
#8782603
01/17/23 10:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 252
TXHunter0619
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 252 |
All interesting commentary. I'm sort of inclined to register it so I get the SBR, no tax stamp, and no wait time. Figure Uncle Sam knows everything about me anyways. Perhaps I'm ignorant.
I did do quick research on the trust transfer because I had the same question and I did find what perhaps could be the reason that they are saying you can't add it to your trust prior to registering...the $200 tax stamp they are supposedly "waiving".
I'm not a lawyer, so do your own research as well, but apparently anytime you transfer an NFA Item (pistols now called SBRs) to another entity, example individual (you) to your trust, you have to pay a $200 tax stamp, regardless if you had already paid one at point of sale. Follow the money they say...
tough times don't last, tough people do
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: scot]
#8782626
01/17/23 11:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,060
unclebubba
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,060 |
I found this to be very informative.
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: scot]
#8783179
01/18/23 08:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,948
The Dude Abides
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,948 |
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: scot]
#8783188
01/18/23 08:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 29,177
TXHOGSLAYER
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 29,177 |
Instead of introducing this bill, why not just void the rule?
LETS GO BRANDON
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: The Dude Abides]
#8783207
01/18/23 08:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,437
TLew
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,437 |
Was just about to post this, along with how many inaccuracies are in the piece from both the author and Gaetz himself
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: scot]
#8783209
01/18/23 08:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,615
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,615 |
Everyone is acting like this is new. It's not. the NFA was passed in 1934 making a rifle with a barrel length less than 16" subject to the tax stamp. A few years ago the ATF TB advised they really don't care if a brace is fired from the shoulder so a bunch of folks built them. In 2022, Biden directed the ATF to change that opinion. I've had SBR's since the early 90's and knew better than to trust the original brace opinion so I never messed with them.
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: TLew]
#8783381
01/19/23 12:42 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 500
Uncle Zeek
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 500 |
The "21 year rule" mentioned is the Rule Against Perpetuities. In a nutshell, the trust may only last as long as the last surviving "life in being" who was alive at the trust formation + 21 years. So if a person formed an NFA trust and named his newborn grandchild as a beneficiary, the trust could last for that grandchilds lifetime plus an additional 21 years. N.B. There is a new statutory 300 year rule against perpetuities in Texas, but it appears to be in conflict with the State Constitution, so I'm reluctant to use the new rule in trusts that I draft. NFA trusts may own Title I and Title II weapons. If the Grantor assigned Title I firearms with a written assignment of property dated prior to the rule, it would probably qualify (presumably the grantor would have to have some evidence that s/he acquired the Title I firearm individually prior to the rule as well). Finally, an SBR or any other Title II firearm may be sold as a private party sale, provided that the buyer submits a Form 4 to ATF for approval. How would the trust possess the stabilizing brace before when it was not required to have a stamp? Think of the implications:
5-10 million affected rifles Most won't rebarrel and will be enticed by the free tax stamp Submit form 1, ATF is creating a better registry Lower is SBR'd, now it can no longer be part of a private party sale The gun goes back to the government if the individual dies or 21 years after the settlor dies
It's a long game, but not that much of a conspiracy Where is the 21 year rule? May be different but is outlined in how your trust was created. Doesn’t matter though — you can’t Form 1 it on a trust unless it was in the schedule previously For trust applicants, ATF will perform a thorough review of the trust documents provided with the eForm 1 application to ensure the firearm sought to be registered to the trust was property possessed by the trust prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. Therefore, an eForm 1 application to register a firearm equipped with a “stabilizing brace” to a trust will be disapproved if the applicant fails to demonstrate the trust possessed the firearmprior to the date the final rule is published Federal Register.
Last edited by Uncle Zeek; 01/19/23 12:53 AM.
"Decency is not news; it's buried in the obituaries, but it's a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate, probate & taxes AND 07/02 FFL 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205 Flower Mound TX 75028 972-746-0758 work zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: Gumbeaux]
#8783515
01/19/23 05:54 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,615
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,615 |
I bought an AR pistol a few months back knowing this was in the works. Rumor back then was a grace period with no tax stamp so I figured worst case, I get an SBR w/o paying the $200.
I am actually a little surprised that the ATF went forward with this though. It just opened the door for a court case and it's going to get fast tracked because it has a deadline affecting several million Americans. The courts have not been friendly to regulators lately and I doubt they will be here, either. My hope is that once SCOTUS cracks the door on this one with the ATF, that the NRA kicks it open and goes after everything the ATF has ever "regulated".
I wouldn’t count on the SCOTUS. They won’t even hear this one. https://www.foxnews.com/us/supreme-...ilers-bid-block-new-concealed-carry-laws
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8783958
01/19/23 10:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,247
splicer
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,247 |
I bought an AR pistol a few months back knowing this was in the works. Rumor back then was a grace period with no tax stamp so I figured worst case, I get an SBR w/o paying the $200.
I am actually a little surprised that the ATF went forward with this though. It just opened the door for a court case and it's going to get fast tracked because it has a deadline affecting several million Americans. The courts have not been friendly to regulators lately and I doubt they will be here, either. My hope is that once SCOTUS cracks the door on this one with the ATF, that the NRA kicks it open and goes after everything the ATF has ever "regulated".
I wouldn’t count on the SCOTUS. They won’t even hear this one. https://www.foxnews.com/us/supreme-...ilers-bid-block-new-concealed-carry-lawsI think the SCOTUS will ultimately stirke this down, it seems giving the circuits just enough rope to hang themselves is the default way of handling 2A cases now.
Last edited by splicer; 01/19/23 10:34 PM.
"Everything is Somewhere"
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: scot]
#8788774
01/26/23 09:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,517
BoomStick
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,517 |
Without getting into the NFA rules and all the other malarkey going on in this thread....... here is my concern, referencing a bloggers post from the ShotShow when the ATF drafted this new rule and the exceptions given. 1) the ATF stated they will essentially give everyone a free tax stamp for the SBR, okay cool! However, according to this blogger, the FBI told the ATF to stick it and will no longer perform the back ground checks. So no the ATF will have to do said back ground checks. Apparently, they have 88days to complete background check or the application gets automatically denied. So no SBR Tax Stamp. 2) with millions of tax stamp apps being submitted, this seems like many will get denied due to background checks not being performed in less than 88days. So you gave your information, address, gun serial number and pictures proving you have a brace to the ATF. Now they deny your tax stamp. So do they enforce on you for an illegal NFA item? Why would they not. You just proved everything they need to create a case against you!
I will not be submitting for a free tax stamp. I will reconfigure my guns until the dust settles from this.
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Re: Pistol Brace Ban
[Re: scot]
#8788866
01/26/23 11:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,405
scot
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,405 |
I thought the whole point of the e form was it automated the background check?
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