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testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
#8701787
10/04/22 10:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485
Uncle Zeek
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485 |
Well, I submitted a Form 1 for an SBR today, and am using the 24 month exception to providing fingerprints, etc. ( 27 CFR 479.63(c) for anyone who wants to look it up).
Will report back as to whether or not they still insist on fingerprints with my application.
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries - but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate, probate & taxes 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 work zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#8702151
10/05/22 01:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,239
blkt2
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,239 |
What I find really strange about the fingerprint requirement is that they don't even attempt to run them, they just file them away. I guess they believe it is a deterrence.
Out of curiosity I Googled how to fake fingerprints and found dozens of places that sold tiny laminate films that stick to your fingers that will give false fingerprints when you either use ink or a digital format for recording them. I guess if the government really wanted things to be foolproof they would take a DNA sample or a retina scan. What's even more bizarre about the NFA is that we're forced to deal with a bureaucracy that is stuck in the 1930s. We should really only be required to pay a $200 transfer tax at the point of sale just like states do sales tax but we all know the purpose of the transfer tax wasn't to raise revenue, it was simply to impose a financial burden on potential customers to encourage us not to buy NFA items. I can't really think of another constitutional right that has a tax applied to it.
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: blkt2]
#8702189
10/05/22 02:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180 |
What I find really strange about the fingerprint requirement is that they don't even attempt to run them, they just file them away. I guess they believe it is a deterrence.
Out of curiosity I Googled how to fake fingerprints and found dozens of places that sold tiny laminate films that stick to your fingers that will give false fingerprints when you either use ink or a digital format for recording them. I guess if the government really wanted things to be foolproof they would take a DNA sample or a retina scan. What's even more bizarre about the NFA is that we're forced to deal with a bureaucracy that is stuck in the 1930s. We should really only be required to pay a $200 transfer tax at the point of sale just like states do sales tax but we all know the purpose of the transfer tax wasn't to raise revenue, it was simply to impose a financial burden on potential customers to encourage us not to buy NFA items. I can't really think of another constitutional right that has a tax applied to it. I sent in my prints in 2012 for a suppressor. I sent in my prints in 2019 for a suppressor. I sent in my prints in 2019 for an FFL. "Hey, how many times do yall need em?" They are not going to give up the revenue. Fine, I'll pay the $200 at point of sale, and walk out with my muffler the same day I decided to buy another one. Run a background check, just like a firearm and be done with it. This whole thing is absolutely stupid!
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#8702416
10/05/22 07:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,244
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,244 |
Well, I submitted a Form 1 for an SBR today, and am using the 24 month exception to providing fingerprints, etc. ( 27 CFR 479.63(c) for anyone who wants to look it up).
Will report back as to whether or not they still insist on fingerprints with my application. Form 1's for a SBR run about 40 days. What wait to send them? They only run a comparison if there is an issue with identification anyway.
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8702479
10/05/22 10:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485
Uncle Zeek
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485 |
Well, I submitted a Form 1 for an SBR today, and am using the 24 month exception to providing fingerprints, etc. ( 27 CFR 479.63(c) for anyone who wants to look it up).
Will report back as to whether or not they still insist on fingerprints with my application. Form 1's for a SBR run about 40 days. What wait to send them? They only run a comparison if there is an issue with identification anyway. Oh, already got confirmation today that they want the fingerprint cards. The agent I spoke with told me that they only exempt sending in the trust documents.
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries - but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate, probate & taxes 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 work zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#8702506
10/05/22 10:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,244
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,244 |
Well, I submitted a Form 1 for an SBR today, and am using the 24 month exception to providing fingerprints, etc. ( 27 CFR 479.63(c) for anyone who wants to look it up).
Will report back as to whether or not they still insist on fingerprints with my application. Form 1's for a SBR run about 40 days. What wait to send them? They only run a comparison if there is an issue with identification anyway. Oh, already got confirmation today that they want the fingerprint cards. The agent I spoke with told me that they only exempt sending in the trust documents. You can go to a Silencer Shop kiosk and get live scanned then order them forever for 15 bucks already printed. I found it easier than inking up and making new ones.
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#8702784
10/06/22 11:36 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,239
blkt2
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,239 |
I'm having a problem with the BATF now because my closest friend was on my NFA trust and two things have happened. He died three years ago of brain cancer and because of that shooting in Sutherland Springs the military has turned all of their medical records over to the FBI and they found out that my friend was put on Prozac for a few months by a counselor in the military when him and his wife lost an infant. They're telling me because of a psych history he is now considered a prohibited person and I'm telling them that he is dead and I can't provide fingerprints for him anymore. In the meantime I've got a rifle that I paid for a year and a half ago sitting in NFA jail.
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: blkt2]
#8702805
10/06/22 12:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,199
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
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Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,199 |
I'm having a problem with the BATF now because my closest friend was on my NFA trust and two things have happened. He died three years ago of brain cancer and because of that shooting in Sutherland Springs the military has turned all of their medical records over to the FBI and they found out that my friend was put on Prozac for a few months by a counselor in the military when him and his wife lost an infant. They're telling me because of a psych history he is now considered a prohibited person and I'm telling them that he is dead and I can't provide fingerprints for him anymore. In the meantime I've got a rifle that I paid for a year and a half ago sitting in NFA jail. You can just edit the trust and take him off. This doesn’t help you on this particular submission, but in the future just take him off the trust.
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: KRoyal]
#8702815
10/06/22 12:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,239
blkt2
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,239 |
^^^ I did that already and they still can't get it through their heads that he's dead and gone and no longer a trustee or whatever you call members of a trust. This only came to light a few weeks ago and they never got around to telling me 14 months ago that they knew there was a problem that had to be resolved. What's really crappy about the deal is that he was law enforcement and rank in an East Texas Sheriff's Department before his passing. Who would have thought that he had been a prohibited person since the '90s. Gun laws and bureaucracy in general drives me up the wall. I'd be willing to let gangs have machine guns to kill each other with just to no longer have to deal with the feds when it comes to my obsession/hobbies. I used to build high-end model rockets and quit because I got tired of the feds believing the rocket engines I used were illegal explosives despite me being completely above board about everything I did.
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#8702830
10/06/22 01:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,199
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
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Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,199 |
Gotcha, yea nothing makes sense when it comes to the Feds.
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: KRoyal]
#8702869
10/06/22 01:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,239
blkt2
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,239 |
Gotcha, yea nothing makes sense when it comes to the Feds. You have no idea how crazy they can be. I along with a half a dozen other people got to get detained once at a rocket shoot while agents dug through all of our gear trying to find a reason to arrest us. You should have seen the look on their faces when they went digging through my truck and found a full auto hk g3 along with my trust paperwork and a copy of the stamp. FYI they performed illegal searches on everyone's vehicles despite our protest. I think what freaked them out the most once they figured out that I was legit was the tax stamp is nearly as old as I am.
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: blkt2]
#8703003
10/06/22 06:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485
Uncle Zeek
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485 |
I'm having a problem with the BATF now because my closest friend was on my NFA trust and two things have happened. He died three years ago of brain cancer and because of that shooting in Sutherland Springs the military has turned all of their medical records over to the FBI and they found out that my friend was put on Prozac for a few months by a counselor in the military when him and his wife lost an infant. They're telling me because of a psych history he is now considered a prohibited person and I'm telling them that he is dead and I can't provide fingerprints for him anymore. In the meantime I've got a rifle that I paid for a year and a half ago sitting in NFA jail. Give me a call. My number is in my sig line.
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries - but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate, probate & taxes 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 work zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#8740642
11/23/22 01:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485
Uncle Zeek
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485 |
well, just got the approved form in today's email. 50 day turnaround time - big improvement over the previous one, which was about five months.
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries - but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate, probate & taxes 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 work zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#8740646
11/23/22 01:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,275
jeepercreeper
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,275 |
If you would have just submitted with trust it would have been alot shorter. I think I got one in 10 days. Now you have to submit trust anyway and not forget, better to just do it up front for most ppl.
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: jeepercreeper]
#8740652
11/23/22 01:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485
Uncle Zeek
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485 |
If you would have just submitted with trust it would have been alot shorter. I think I got one in 10 days. Now you have to submit trust anyway and not forget, better to just do it up front for most ppl. That was e-filing with my trust, and I didn't forget. Was seeing what effect it has on approval time if you use the 24 month exception in the statute. Now that it's approved, I'll amend/restate the trust and scan the amended docs for future applications.
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries - but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate, probate & taxes 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 work zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: J.G.]
#8741812
11/24/22 11:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,404
Stickchunker
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,404 |
What I find really strange about the fingerprint requirement is that they don't even attempt to run them, they just file them away. I guess they believe it is a deterrence.
Out of curiosity I Googled how to fake fingerprints and found dozens of places that sold tiny laminate films that stick to your fingers that will give false fingerprints when you either use ink or a digital format for recording them. I guess if the government really wanted things to be foolproof they would take a DNA sample or a retina scan. What's even more bizarre about the NFA is that we're forced to deal with a bureaucracy that is stuck in the 1930s. We should really only be required to pay a $200 transfer tax at the point of sale just like states do sales tax but we all know the purpose of the transfer tax wasn't to raise revenue, it was simply to impose a financial burden on potential customers to encourage us not to buy NFA items. I can't really think of another constitutional right that has a tax applied to it. I sent in my prints in 2012 for a suppressor. I sent in my prints in 2019 for a suppressor. I sent in my prints in 2019 for an FFL. "Hey, how many times do yall need em?" They are not going to give up the revenue. Fine, I'll pay the $200 at point of sale, and walk out with my muffler the same day I decided to buy another one. Run a background check, just like a firearm and be done with it. This whole thing is absolutely stupid! I didn't read the entire thread....stopped here! Amen!! My job requires me to have a full blown Homeland security background check every 5 years, prints and all! I feel that I should be able to show my little card that's in my pocket at all times (with my picture on it) and buy a dang suppressor! They already know everything about me!
In these times , 'I'll keep my God , my freedom , my gun and my money. Anyone that supports this insanity can keep "THE CHANGE".
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#8741863
11/25/22 01:27 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485
Uncle Zeek
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 485 |
. . . and here's why I was waiting for the tax stamp. Fun on a bun!!
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries - but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate, probate & taxes 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 work zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: testing out the 24 month exception for ATF e-forms
[Re: Stickchunker]
#8741873
11/25/22 01:43 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 15,998
Jimbo1
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 15,998 |
What I find really strange about the fingerprint requirement is that they don't even attempt to run them, they just file them away. I guess they believe it is a deterrence.
Out of curiosity I Googled how to fake fingerprints and found dozens of places that sold tiny laminate films that stick to your fingers that will give false fingerprints when you either use ink or a digital format for recording them. I guess if the government really wanted things to be foolproof they would take a DNA sample or a retina scan. What's even more bizarre about the NFA is that we're forced to deal with a bureaucracy that is stuck in the 1930s. We should really only be required to pay a $200 transfer tax at the point of sale just like states do sales tax but we all know the purpose of the transfer tax wasn't to raise revenue, it was simply to impose a financial burden on potential customers to encourage us not to buy NFA items. I can't really think of another constitutional right that has a tax applied to it. I sent in my prints in 2012 for a suppressor. I sent in my prints in 2019 for a suppressor. I sent in my prints in 2019 for an FFL. "Hey, how many times do yall need em?" They are not going to give up the revenue. Fine, I'll pay the $200 at point of sale, and walk out with my muffler the same day I decided to buy another one. Run a background check, just like a firearm and be done with it. This whole thing is absolutely stupid! I didn't read the entire thread....stopped here! Amen!! My job requires me to have a full blown Homeland security background check every 5 years, prints and all! I feel that I should be able to show my little card that's in my pocket at all times (with my picture on it) and buy a dang suppressor! They already know everything about me! If you were with DHS/ICE, I probably adjudicated your background investigation/security clearance at least once. I feel the same way...prints are prints, but, yes, we actually do(did) run them again every 5 yrs. I'm retired military and recently retired DHS. Our government loves redundancy!
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