Not sure I agree with your definitions, but thanks for stopping by and adding to the discusion. Sorry you have to leave.


Kinda like TPWDs definition of "Contiguous" in the justification to expand ARs. Let it mean what you want to make your point...wrong as it may be.





It went from this:


to this:

How is Northest Texas "contiguous" with the original counties?
(little red dots)


This is contiguous:


If you know anyone that can answer some of the "oppositions" questions send 'em over.

(i.e. What is the detrimental age structure, How did they get arrive at it?)


Hope you didn't take my opinions personally,

"Come back now, Hear",
Phish-TX

Applaud!....PhishTX for head of TP&W, LOL!

You just spoke the magic words I have been waiting to hear Hoytman from an AR opponent. I briefly touched on this earlier in thread about "Limiting out" phase of a hunter. Why don't some outgrow that phase? Hunting to me means so much more than killing anything at all. I don't believe the "junk science" theory, as pointed out here by others, that TPWD used to enforce these restrictions. I know, I've done the TPWD spotlight surveys, the Hahn walking line surveys, the processor surveys that included ageing, weighing, and scoring. I saw firsthand the young bucks being brought in. It was SAD seeing the future laying there dead. I was not impressed by the 40 year old men bringing in their little bucks, after so many years of hunting and claiming they'd killed many in their life. WOW, you accomplished a lot there buddy. Now for the kiddos bringing in their deer, I could not be more happy for them no matter the size. That brings up another point, are the kids being left out with AR? I don't think so. I feel they are being taught patience, sound management practices, and overall enjoyment of nature, etc. The does are there to harvest and maybe a spike buck along the way. If a 13" happens by, that's just icing. I think if kids have too much success early, hunting will eventually be forgotten by them or it will become boring and they'll move on the XBOX360, etc. There is much to learn in the outdoors and I certainly do my part to help the young ones. The fact is that the public overwhelmingly supported this and thus it is law. You guys happen to be the minority and certainly open to voice your opinion. Just so you know, I do not consider myself a trophy hunter...just a mature buck hunter who lives and breathes all things deer and giving something back by managing the herd the best I can. The fact that he is mature is trophy enough for me.

TGBA,

I almost jumped on this first time you mentioned it.
I think you've been reading too many articles. "Phases of hunters" is someone's trumped up opinion to put in print or book.

Might need to outgrow that reading material, and move on to another phase......(roll eyes)

What "PHASE" should TPWD cater to?


WHAT PHASE OF HUNTER IS IT WHEN:
YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE IMPRESSED BY WHAT SOMEONE ELSE SHOOTs !!!


And to the contrary, if kids don't have success they will not be interested in going with dad, and rather stay home and shoot 'em on the XBOX360. WHAT PHASE IS THAT?


I agree with this. That's the problem. If it was OVERWHELMING SCIENCE I could swallow it. But not THIS !!

tbgascorer i have killed so many deer over the last 30yrs and any deer i kill is a trophy to me, see im not into the big horns thing and i dont mind if others are but im there for the huntin and the meat. Im just as happy to kill a spike as i am a 10pt. im just happy to have meat for the freezer and have a good time getting it. Hope ya see im the opposite end if all you care about is those antlers then to me you do the deer a disservice. I can eat the deer but not the horns. Honestly not trying to give ya a hard time just feel differen. I wouldnt have a problem with the ar regs if they would lower the bag limit. Just want to be able to see more deer and kill one or two without worrying about horns that i cant eat anyway.

PHishTX,
No, I don't think the phases of hunters is a made up thing to put in print. I think back on my history and I have evolved as a hunter and as a person. Trust me, I read the most up to date material. Thanks for your concern though

In this case TPWD caters to the majority

Do you not feel happy or excited for someone who bags a large buck or a kid who gets their first deer? Others can be very impressionable.

On the success subject. I was mainly talking about it being too easy for them. For example, if a young one shoots a 180 class buck the first time he goes hunting, he has no where to go but down. I appreciate you trying to make a new PHASE though.

If my memory serves me correctly, I remember a staunch, somewhat belligerent opponent of the AR in meetings for Bosque county years ago. You and him sound a lot alike??

Sure I feel happy "for someone who bags a large buck or kid who gets their first deer." Kids, and neighbors as well as others. Still got one son that needs to get his first, but the ARs are hampering him. Hope I can encourage him to stick with it. Thank GOD we don't have an XBOX360 in our house.

But I also don't look down to those

So if a kid or anyone shoots a (pick a number, I'll use yours) 180" buck what are THEY to do. I'd/they'd go hunting....and shoot another 180" if I saw it....or 130, or a 13" 2.5yo, or a doe for that matter.

Just hope you (a Texas Big Game Awards Scorer? possibly? ) Wouldn't look down on him or me. That is not really a good light for one in a TBGA scorer position to look down on those that bring in their PERSONAL TROPHYS....But Whatever....I don't expect to ever have on scored by ya'll anyways, no matter the size.

Nope didn't go to the Bosque mtg. Glad there is some opposition there though.

I hear ya Hoytman. I had just as soon spend time at the table with family and/or friends eating a yummy meal made of venison as I had sitting in my recliner and looking on my wall and seeing a big set of horns. A big set of horns is just icing on the cake. It doubles my success, venison to eat + horns to look at but venison is priority. I think you can "evolve" as a hunter and human without it being about shooting bigger bucks.

I truly hope your son gets his first buck this year, I really do.

I disagree with you on the keep hunting scenario of a kid shooting a large buck. Maybe in some cases, but surely not all. I just think they would be disappointed in their hunting adventures after that, just my opinion.

I know you've said there was not a problem in your area before the AR was implemented, but if it was to get even better over time, would you support AR or attribute the increase to something else? Also, something we haven't touched on, how many acres do you control? I assume you are a landowner with the roots from the past you've mentioned.

Yep the big horns are icing and i dont mind people waiting to get a big ol buck its just not my thing, and if ya saw my waist line you will know what my priororaty is LOL. I really hope i dont change and evolve into a horn hunter because unless i get rich it will never come to that.

Thanks

We let 'em shoot the first legal one they want on the first. When his brother (who had shot 3-4 doe over the years) got his first, (just before ARs were implemented) a 12 3/4" 2.5yo buck came out and he shot it. He was excited, I was excited, he made a good shot, AWSOME experience. But the best part is the 16" 3.5 yo 10pt (that we didn't see), ran off when he shot, made it, snicker, snicker,
We do like to let them mature, too.



#1) I will not support a lie, and dishonest regulation if there was a 180" buck behind every bush. PERIOD !!

#2) Like I said it hasn't effected me too bad yet. other than my son. Which I don't like. But I don't like what it does to Hoytman, or others across the state either. It isn't just about me.

Based on the above I think acreage is irrelevant. I only control the few acres that my bullet will travel.

No, just a wild-ass-guess, Family + neighbors (that I know are of like mind) could be 3,000 or so. Low fence free range farm/ranch, that happens to have deer on it.

Bag limits manage deer population only in the poorly populated areas.
I could'nt kill enough deer for meat to hurt the population on my place.
When the day light gets low, I'll see 50 - 60 deer at least and up to 180 on my wheat field in some settings.
Now I could kill enough to make'em move to my neighbors places.
Back to my point.
Other than to stop extinction why is it the business of government to say what I leaglly kill on my place?
I trophy hunt and some years I don't pull a trigger.
But thats my choice.I like watching deer and thats it.
The regulations are bulit on false, sloopy information and thus it is bad.
You would'nt want your doctor to rely on poor information to treat you would you?
But you accept poor regulations base on poor surveys of dead deer in a locker? Please!
We all should have the right to take what we want but if you have the money or connections you can get any law you want passed.
Just as in bass fishing (size, and catch and release) change the mind set of the hunter and profit.
There is nothing wrong with keeping a fish to eat, but over the years catch and release has far surpassed the eaters through changing the preferrence of the sportmans not the requirements so much.
I talk to alot more hunters today that call thenselves trophy hunters than 10 to 20 years ago. They are changing themselves and not because someone has forced them to.

As far as comparing deer hunting to bass fishing, I have the choice to fish a catch and release only bass lake such as Purtis Creek, a slot bass lake such as Fork or a lake where I can keep bass 14" or larger such as Tawakoni. Point is, I still have the choice lake to lake on whether on whether or not I want to better my chance to catch a trophy bass or to just go catch bass to eat. I just about have to be a trophy deer hunter county to county now with ARs. It's awesome you see that many deer on your trips oneshot. Wish I could. On our lease, if a hunter doesn't shoot the first legal deer he or she sees to get some venison, they might not get that chance again the rest of the season. It's been like that for 25+ years on my lease with or without the ARs. It's a family lease, a family of basically meat hunters, so I'm not going anywhare, sucky huntin' or not.

Hey I'm with you.
I want you to kill what you feel you want.
Thats my point!
Why are you tied to regulations that are suppose to raise the average of a herd?
If trophys are what I want then I choose differently from the meat hunter.
Thats my mind set.
That 's not the case for the meat hunter, you have a different mind set.
Because government is trying to force you to follow flawed science you get restrictions that probably hurt more than it helps you or the herd.
Government needs to stay the hell out of your choice.
If you want to kill the first thing you see thats great.
That was my mind set for several years then I said it's time to up my requirements(for me)probably because I know that there can be meat on the table anytime "I" want it, but mostly because to just kill a deer was not a challenge.
Thus my mind set changed.
But TPWD did'nt force me with regs.
I did it.

Ah I get it now! I tend to get confused.

I keep hearing overwhelming majority support for AR...where are they???? Best i can tell it MIGHT be 50-50 in this thread. Those that are for it sure dont hang around long

Hhhmm, come to think of it......

Things that make you say Hmmmmmm....

Oneshot ill trade ya some hogs for deer! LOL. is the huntin that much better in cooper? All for people who want to trophy hunt as long as i dont have to.

I've seen a lot of big bucks around the lower end of Cooper Lake dam.

Me too just wish i could hunt that area!

Most complants are coming from areas with low deer population. Is that just a coincidence

Nope. Most people hunting areas with low deer populations wont have much to shoot at for a few years. And IMO there's no gaurantee that the quality will get better either. there will just be more 8 point basket racks running around that still wont be legal to shoot.

It just seems most people want to complain that the AR's are hurting their hunting land. But like you said deer populations were low how is it that not shooting those basket 8's wont help that population.

I don't spend much time hunting here around Cooper although I have some property close to the lake that has a few deer on it.
I spend my season hunting Mills Co.