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Re: Section 230 appears not to be what Zuckerburg thinks
[Re: CharlieCTx]
#8509259
01/21/22 12:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,419
rickt300
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Nobody is violating anybody's free speech rights. Any private enterprise can regulate conduct on their platform however they want. The first amendment does not prohibit private businesses from censorship.
The only thing the first amendment does is prohibit the government from censoring speech. It doesn't mean that Facebook has to give you a platform to say whatever you want. What he said... I don't understand all of the pissin' and moaning about censorship on a private platform. If you don't like their moderation, just go somewhere else. Charlie There is legitimate censorship, dealing with threats, obscenity, breaking laws such as using platforms for sex trafficking or selling drugs but if the speech does not fall into that category it should be protected. I realize you couldn't have read section 230 or you just don't understand it but the reality of it is the statute was written to protect free speech. It was not written to give a forum the right to shut down political speech their moderators don't agree with. Each platform your complaining about (TxAgs, FB, Twitter, etc.) all have rules they ask you to abid by to use THEIR service/platform. It's not a god or gov't given right to do so. Your interpretation of 230 and how it applies to this is similar to my attempt to represent myself in court for a traffic violation when I was in college. After starting my defense, the judge pointed out to me, law libraries have two sides, Civil and Criminal. I did all the research and built my defense on Civil case law when I was charged with a criminal offense. Even though I didn't know WTF I was talking about, the judge found me not guilty (He was impressed with at least my attempt to prepare). Section 230 includes two main provisions: one that protects online services and users from liability when they do not remove third-party content, and one that protects them from liability when they do remove content. You also have the right to incoherently complain about any topic you wish, I'm not going to get in the middle of that. Carry on please... Charlie You should read the "terms of service", they do not stand by them. Can you identify what Facebooks "community standards" are? Suppose an entity takes government money like the Texasags forum. As far as that goes you go ahead and let them tell you what you can say or not say. What about them treating people differently. If a company takes government money they should have to respect our constitutional rights. https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/...ubsidizing-facebook-and-the-next-bubble/But you also have the right to keep your head in the sand, let private individuals guide the narrative at your expense. Remember when the first amendment is exhausted the second becomes your last line of defense, personally I prefer free speech to chaos and gunfire in the streets.
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Re: Section 230 appears not to be what Zuckerburg thinks
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#8509265
01/21/22 12:22 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,419
rickt300
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Bingo.
and the same goes for jobs requiring vaccines. If you don't want to vax but the employer mandates it (not the feds) then either get the stick or move on. It isn't rocket science. This is america where individuals can do what they want (for the most part) with what they own. If you don't like it, go get something you own and do what you want with it.[/quote]
Off topic a bit but you really feel that an employer has the right to force you to get a shot? Especially one that has killed over 20 thousand people? You feel an employer "owns" you? You ought to stick to Buckeye and dispense with the Texas part of your screen name. [/quote]
Not too terribly off topic, but yes a company does have the right to tell you what you need to do for employment in Texas. I am a business owner> If I wanted to, I could enforce a vaccine mandate. The fact I don't is my choice, but I have the right to do so in Texas as a business owner.
If I want to "censor" my employees on their social media I have the right to do that as well. Doesn't mean I do, but I can fire someone for what is said on social media. It isn't rocket science, it is just reality.
If you feel differently and have proof I can not do this, please let me know. [/quote]
Well suppose I took your "censorship" personally? Made you pay for violating my rights? There are such things as civil rights attorneys. I obviously would not work for anyone with a philosophy of control. Odd that you seem proud of your "power".
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Re: Section 230 appears not to be what Zuckerburg thinks
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#8509277
01/21/22 12:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,365
Duck_Hunter
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Read the First Amendment, there is no mention in the First Amendment that individuals or corporate entities cannot censor what they want. Only the Government is prohibited from censorship. If you want to ride the high horse, go after the Texas State Legislature and the Governor for wanting to censor the libraries of our public schools. The next thing those clowns will want to do is have public book burnings. There is a limit to the 1A though. Someone can not just yell "bomb" in a movie theater and incite a panic. Someone can not use violent language against people just because they want to say it. First amendment does not protect freedom to print and publish pedophilia, child abuse, etc. The issues with some of the library in public schools is they have books (some required readings in other states, not sure about TX) which not only describe in detail pedophilia and child sexual abuse, but celebrate it and make it seem normal and mainstream. I thought the controversy with pedophilia and other subjects being required reading is over parents’ objections to certain subjects being taught in schools. There are books for children being included in curriculum that depict graphic oral sex, and parents felt it was inappropriate for elementary and middle school children to be reading it in a book. That’s a lot different than banning pedophilia in a novel. Child pornography is banned, because children can’t consent. But a novel that has a scene where a child is raped by an adult is most likely going to be protected speech. Arguing whether it’s appropriate for children of a certain age, or whether it should be taught in school at all, isn’t a first amendment issue. It’s parents trying to parent. If the government were to ban a book entirely, that would be a violation of the first amendment. Yelling fire in a crowded theater was never law. It was a remark made by a Supreme Court justice and had nothing to do with the case he was discussing. The case that was being decided was overturned later by the Supreme Court. But those who quote Holmes might want to actually read the case where the phrase originated before using it as their main defense. If they did, they'd realize it was never binding law, and the underlying case, U.S. v. Schenck, is not only one of the most odious free speech decisions in the Court's history, but was overturned over 40 years ago. https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: Section 230 appears not to be what Zuckerburg thinks
[Re: rickt300]
#8509309
01/21/22 01:30 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,419
rickt300
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Before I decide there is no reason to try to reason with the unreasonable the point I am trying to make is forum moderation like Facebook does creates sheep. It reinforces there stupidity when they see people get banned who are trying to get truth into the conversation. It makes them believe the leftist propaganda as anyone who dares disagree is blocked or banned. This is very dangerous as it creates masses of idiots, never underestimate the power of large groups of idiots.
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Re: Section 230 appears not to be what Zuckerburg thinks
[Re: rickt300]
#8509328
01/21/22 01:43 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,690
SherpaPhil
Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,690 |
Before I decide there is no reason to try to reason with the unreasonable the point I am trying to make is forum moderation like Facebook does creates sheep. It reinforces there stupidity when they see people get banned who are trying to get truth into the conversation. It makes them believe the leftist propaganda as anyone who dares disagree is blocked or banned. This is very dangerous as it creates masses of idiots, never underestimate the power of large groups of idiots. I agree with all of that, but when you state that first amendment protections apply to posting on Facebook, you sound like an idiot.
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Re: Section 230 appears not to be what Zuckerburg thinks
[Re: Duck_Hunter]
#8509361
01/21/22 02:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,051
Texas buckeye
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Read the First Amendment, there is no mention in the First Amendment that individuals or corporate entities cannot censor what they want. Only the Government is prohibited from censorship. If you want to ride the high horse, go after the Texas State Legislature and the Governor for wanting to censor the libraries of our public schools. The next thing those clowns will want to do is have public book burnings. There is a limit to the 1A though. Someone can not just yell "bomb" in a movie theater and incite a panic. Someone can not use violent language against people just because they want to say it. First amendment does not protect freedom to print and publish pedophilia, child abuse, etc. The issues with some of the library in public schools is they have books (some required readings in other states, not sure about TX) which not only describe in detail pedophilia and child sexual abuse, but celebrate it and make it seem normal and mainstream. I thought the controversy with pedophilia and other subjects being required reading is over parents’ objections to certain subjects being taught in schools. There are books for children being included in curriculum that depict graphic oral sex, and parents felt it was inappropriate for elementary and middle school children to be reading it in a book. That’s a lot different than banning pedophilia in a novel. Child pornography is banned, because children can’t consent. But a novel that has a scene where a child is raped by an adult is most likely going to be protected speech. Arguing whether it’s appropriate for children of a certain age, or whether it should be taught in school at all, isn’t a first amendment issue. It’s parents trying to parent. If the government were to ban a book entirely, that would be a violation of the first amendment. Yelling fire in a crowded theater was never law. It was a remark made by a Supreme Court justice and had nothing to do with the case he was discussing. The case that was being decided was overturned later by the Supreme Court. But those who quote Holmes might want to actually read the case where the phrase originated before using it as their main defense. If they did, they'd realize it was never binding law, and the underlying case, U.S. v. Schenck, is not only one of the most odious free speech decisions in the Court's history, but was overturned over 40 years ago. https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/You are correct about the writing part. I was thinking child porn and such things and got mixed up and wrote print and publish. Was specifically thinking of the stuff josh duggar got busted for, as my daughter has followed that closely, but got twisted in my head of the library books. You are absolutely correct about those books. I was not trying to equate banning books in libraries with 1A issues. I used that second paragraph to address the part of one of the responses that stated something about such actions. Thank you for clarifying my mistake
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Re: Section 230 appears not to be what Zuckerburg thinks
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#8509380
01/21/22 03:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,365
Duck_Hunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,365 |
Read the First Amendment, there is no mention in the First Amendment that individuals or corporate entities cannot censor what they want. Only the Government is prohibited from censorship. If you want to ride the high horse, go after the Texas State Legislature and the Governor for wanting to censor the libraries of our public schools. The next thing those clowns will want to do is have public book burnings. There is a limit to the 1A though. Someone can not just yell "bomb" in a movie theater and incite a panic. Someone can not use violent language against people just because they want to say it. First amendment does not protect freedom to print and publish pedophilia, child abuse, etc. The issues with some of the library in public schools is they have books (some required readings in other states, not sure about TX) which not only describe in detail pedophilia and child sexual abuse, but celebrate it and make it seem normal and mainstream. I thought the controversy with pedophilia and other subjects being required reading is over parents’ objections to certain subjects being taught in schools. There are books for children being included in curriculum that depict graphic oral sex, and parents felt it was inappropriate for elementary and middle school children to be reading it in a book. That’s a lot different than banning pedophilia in a novel. Child pornography is banned, because children can’t consent. But a novel that has a scene where a child is raped by an adult is most likely going to be protected speech. Arguing whether it’s appropriate for children of a certain age, or whether it should be taught in school at all, isn’t a first amendment issue. It’s parents trying to parent. If the government were to ban a book entirely, that would be a violation of the first amendment. Yelling fire in a crowded theater was never law. It was a remark made by a Supreme Court justice and had nothing to do with the case he was discussing. The case that was being decided was overturned later by the Supreme Court. But those who quote Holmes might want to actually read the case where the phrase originated before using it as their main defense. If they did, they'd realize it was never binding law, and the underlying case, U.S. v. Schenck, is not only one of the most odious free speech decisions in the Court's history, but was overturned over 40 years ago. https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/You are correct about the writing part. I was thinking child porn and such things and got mixed up and wrote print and publish. Was specifically thinking of the stuff josh duggar got busted for, as my daughter has followed that closely, but got twisted in my head of the library books. You are absolutely correct about those books. I was not trying to equate banning books in libraries with 1A issues. I used that second paragraph to address the part of one of the responses that stated something about such actions. Thank you for clarifying my mistake no worries, sir.
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: Section 230 appears not to be what Zuckerburg thinks
[Re: SherpaPhil]
#8509385
01/21/22 03:10 AM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 319
log cabin
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 319 |
social media owns part of our government
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Re: Section 230 appears not to be what Zuckerburg thinks
[Re: rickt300]
#8509406
01/21/22 03:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,466
ndhunter
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,466 |
They don't have to own you to modify the contract. Employment at will in Texas, "either party in an employment relationship may modify any of the terms or conditions of employment, or terminate the relationship altogether, for any reason, or no particular reason at all, with or without advance notice"
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Re: Section 230 appears not to be what Zuckerburg thinks
[Re: rickt300]
#8509859
01/21/22 04:35 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,386
nsmike
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,386 |
The social media platforms have become the de-facto public square, Congress if it chose to do so, could declare it so and extend First Amendment protections to them. The social media platforms can enforce their rules as long as they are considered private.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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