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 New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
#837702
08/10/09 11:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,309
PrimitiveHunter
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Has anybody else seen the compact AR style 22 rifles at Academy? I saw a couple of them in Longview this weekend and they looked realy slick! The S&W was $499 and the Colt was $529 or $599. Great looking rifles set up with quad rails and all.
Practice doesn’t make perfect.
Practice makes permanent.
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: PrimitiveHunter]
#837703
08/10/09 11:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 838
uthornfan
Tracker
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Tracker
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I am glad to see that more companies are making these. Since I got my Spikes Upper I have shot the heck out of it and loved every minute of it.
It will be interesting to see what kind of 22LR ammo they function with. The Spikes Tactical 22LR I have is designed with and test fired with the Federal 550 bulk packs. It shoots that stuff with no problems and also shoots the Winchester bulk packs, but it won't shoot the Remington Golden Bullet ammo at all (Spikes sends a note with the gun telling you which ammo their uppers reliably work with, but I had some Remington at home anyway so I decided to test it.) As stated in the note, the Remington stuff won't chamber reliably and when it chambers, it almost always stove pipes after firing.
I have shot some 22 pistols that won't shoot the bulk packs reliably and really need the higher dollar 22LR ammo to function correctly. If the S&W and Colt guns shoot reliably with the bulk packs, they are probably a better deal than the Spikes (which is about $600 for the upper and will work on any AR-15 lower). If you have to use the more expensive ammo in them, the Spikes will pay for itself over time. I also wonder if the Colt and S&W uppers will work on any AR lower or if they will only work on the lower that comes with the gun.
Also, did you look closely at the guns? I ask because I was wondering if they were made of aluminum or polymer. I have seen some 22LR uppers (from Velocity Firearms I believe) that were polymer, probably the same stuff that some of the 22LR pistols are made of. They probably function fine, but I just don't trust plastic to be as strong as aluminum.
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: uthornfan]
#837704
08/10/09 11:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,309
PrimitiveHunter
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I didn't ask them to pull one because I wasn't going to buy it so I don't know anything about them except what I could see from the counter. I hate to have the guys pull weapons if I'm not in the market to buy. I did notice that they are a good 4" shorter than the "standard" ARs they had but don't know if the difference was in the upper or lower. They were bad azz looking rifles though. I was going to buy a 22 upper for my AR but if these rifles will run (we'll know in a few months), I'll just go the whole rifle route. If my phone took pictures, I'd have gotten a shot of them in the rack.
Practice doesn’t make perfect.
Practice makes permanent.
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: PrimitiveHunter]
#837705
08/10/09 11:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,241
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
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Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,241 |
Quote:
I didn't ask them to pull one because I wasn't going to buy it so I don't know anything about them except what I could see from the counter. I hate to have the guys pull weapons if I'm not in the market to buy. I did notice that they are a good 4" shorter than the "standard" ARs they had but don't know if the difference was in the upper or lower. They were bad azz looking rifles though. I was going to buy a 22 upper for my AR but if these rifles will run (we'll know in a few months), I'll just go the whole rifle route. If my phone took pictures, I'd have gotten a shot of them in the rack.
Hmm Has to be in the lower, Otherwise it would be a SBR if the barrel isn't 16"+... I've also been looking to buy me a 22LR upper, I'll have to see how these do...
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: KRoyal]
#837706
08/10/09 11:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 838
uthornfan
Tracker
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If they had collapsible stocks, maybe the stocks on the 22LRs were fully collapsed and the stocks on the other ARs were fully extended? Don't think that would account for four inches of difference, but it could account for a couple of inches. I do know that on my Spikes Upper it is a 16 inch barrel, but 1.5 inches of that is inside the receiver so on the outside it appears to be a 14.5 inch barrel.
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: uthornfan]
#837707
08/11/09 02:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 501
big rack hunter 137
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 501 |
yeah its pretty cool my friend is thinking about getting one
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: big rack hunter 137]
#837708
08/11/09 03:22 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 47
MSC
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 47 |
I would buy one of these instantly if they made them in 22mag
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: MSC]
#837709
08/11/09 03:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 155
1 Bad IH
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 155 |
Quote:
I would buy one of these instantly if they made them in 22mag
Make that a 17hmr!!!
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: 1 Bad IH]
#837710
08/11/09 03:56 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 838
uthornfan
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After a little more research (mainly on AR15.com), it appears the S&W is made of polymer, the Colt is made of cheap pot metal and that they are not compatible with standard lowers. Polymer is not a bad thing and can be very strong assuming it is made right. The Colt came out first, so there are more reviews on it but the first S&W reviews are hitting the web).
The main complaint about the Colt seems to center around its use of a proprietary trigger that cannot be swapped out with standard AR triggers and is not easily adjustable (if it is adjustable at all). It was also apparently designed by lawyers because it breaks at 14 pounds. The Smith and Wesson uses a standard trigger which can be adjusted or swapped out if you so choose. Apparently some of the parts on both guns are mil-spec and can be swapped out, but others cannot be. I don't believe the Colt handguards can be changed for instance. The Colt also appears to like the bulk pack ammo just fine, which is a nice thing.
The guns also use proprietary bolts and magazines, so you cannot use the Black Dog Magazines that are compatible with the Ciener-based kits (used by Spikes, Model One Sales and Tactical Solutions).
With a cheap price tag and a polymer build, it appears they are trying to go head-to-head with the GSG-5. If you want a AR-22 that you can customize by swapping out any of the parts, you need a dedicated upper. If you just want a 22LR that looks like an AR-15, the Colt and Smith and Wesson are probably just fine, assuming they are reliable. Since they are so new, we will know a lot more about their reliability in 3-6 months once people get some range time with them.
Last edited by uthornfan; 08/13/09 01:00 AM.
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: uthornfan]
#837711
08/12/09 02:30 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 386
Mr. Scott
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 386 |
The guns look like AR's but are not.
Go to cmmginc.com and get their .22lr conversion kit and use your standard AR as a .22lr. The conversion kit is $200
The Colt is not made by colt, it is made by a subsidary of Walther Germany, and that subsidy is actually an airsoft maker.
Do some looking around and you'll see there is a problem with the Colt receivers breaking where the rear take down pin is.
I haven't read much on the S&W but from what I have read it is better than the Colt and is actually made by S&W.
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: Mr. Scott]
#837712
08/12/09 05:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,241
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
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Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,241 |
Quote:
The guns look like AR's but are not.
Go to cmmginc.com and get their .22lr conversion kit and use your standard AR as a .22lr. The conversion kit is $200
The Colt is not made by colt, it is made by a subsidary of Walther Germany, and that subsidy is actually an airsoft maker.
Do some looking around and you'll see there is a problem with the Colt receivers breaking where the rear take down pin is.
I haven't read much on the S&W but from what I have read it is better than the Colt and is actually made by S&W.
That conversion kit isn't too good for your 5.56 barrel is it???
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: KRoyal]
#837713
08/12/09 05:11 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,187
OFBHWG
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,187 |
Smith & Wesson is coming out with a 22lr only on the ar type platform.
When you need a Piano moved there is always someone around to help you with the stool!
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: KRoyal]
#837714
08/12/09 10:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 838
uthornfan
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Aug 2005
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Quote:
Quote:
The guns look like AR's but are not.
Go to cmmginc.com and get their .22lr conversion kit and use your standard AR as a .22lr. The conversion kit is $200
The Colt is not made by colt, it is made by a subsidary of Walther Germany, and that subsidy is actually an airsoft maker.
Do some looking around and you'll see there is a problem with the Colt receivers breaking where the rear take down pin is.
I haven't read much on the S&W but from what I have read it is better than the Colt and is actually made by S&W.
That conversion kit isn't too good for your 5.56 barrel is it???
It won't hurt your barrel, but you won't get the accuracy you will get out of a dedicated 22LR barrel. The 22LR needs a 1 in 16 barrel for optimum accuracy while the 223s have 1 in 9 and 1 in 7 barrels.
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: uthornfan]
#837715
08/13/09 01:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,241
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
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Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,241 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The guns look like AR's but are not.
Go to cmmginc.com and get their .22lr conversion kit and use your standard AR as a .22lr. The conversion kit is $200
The Colt is not made by colt, it is made by a subsidary of Walther Germany, and that subsidy is actually an airsoft maker.
Do some looking around and you'll see there is a problem with the Colt receivers breaking where the rear take down pin is.
I haven't read much on the S&W but from what I have read it is better than the Colt and is actually made by S&W.
That conversion kit isn't too good for your 5.56 barrel is it???
It won't hurt your barrel, but you won't get the accuracy you will get out of a dedicated 22LR barrel. The 22LR needs a 1 in 16 barrel for optimum accuracy while the 223s have 1 in 9 and 1 in 7 barrels.
So how bad of accuracy are we talking here???
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: KRoyal]
#837716
08/13/09 01:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 838
uthornfan
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 838 |
With my dedicated upper I can get half inch five-shot groups easy at 50 yards with bulk pack ammo. The conversion units I have shot (I have only shot two of them but have read enough that I believe what I have seen is the norm) seem to shoot two to three times that.
I also believe that 223 bullets are larger than 22LR bullets. Aren't 223/5.56 bullets .224 in diameter and 22LR bullets .221 in diameter? Not much of a difference, but enough to make a difference if you want match accuracy. I have a regular Green Mountain barrel in my Spikes kit and it is plenty accurate for what I use it for. I have heard that by upgrading the Spikes with a Lothar Walther barrel, it is even more accurate.
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: uthornfan]
#837717
08/13/09 04:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,241
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
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Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,241 |
Quote:
With my dedicated upper I can get half inch five-shot groups easy at 50 yards with bulk pack ammo. The conversion units I have shot (I have only shot two of them but have read enough that I believe what I have seen is the norm) seem to shoot two to three times that.
I also believe that 223 bullets are larger than 22LR bullets. Aren't 223/5.56 bullets .224 in diameter and 22LR bullets .221 in diameter? Not much of a difference, but enough to make a difference if you want match accuracy. I have a regular Green Mountain barrel in my Spikes kit and it is plenty accurate for what I use it for. I have heard that by upgrading the Spikes with a Lothar Walther barrel, it is even more accurate.
I'm not really looking for match accuracy, it would just be a easy way to convert my AR to shoot 22LR mainly just for plinking and wasting cheap 22LR ammo, if they aren't bad for the AR I might just have to get me one...
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: KRoyal]
#837718
08/14/09 08:58 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 838
uthornfan
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Aug 2005
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I can vouch for Spikes Tactical making a great product and have heard good things about Tactical Solutions, but I have never dealt with them personally. If you got one of the bolts from them and put them in your AR, I am sure you will not be disappointed.
Both the Spikes and Tactical Solutions bolts are based on the Ciener design, but I believe they have slightly improved/modified the original design. Justin Ciener also sells the conversion kits himself but I have heard that he has a horrible reputation and customer service to match. His products work great, but he refuses to communicate with people, talks down to customers and generally acts like an a$$hole 24/7.
Let us know what you decide to do. I got my Spikes a couple of months ago and have about 2,000 rounds down it with very few misfires and failures to feed. It is certainly fun to shoot your AR for the better part of an afternoon and not have to worry about the cost of ammo. Just make sure you get lots of mags (BlackDog Magazine makes mags for all the Ciener kits). I just had two at first and spent almost all my time loading. I now have six and it is much better.
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Re: New AR Style 22 Rifles at Academy
[Re: KRoyal]
#837719
08/14/09 12:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 232
DavKind
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 232 |
Quote:
Quote:
With my dedicated upper I can get half inch five-shot groups easy at 50 yards with bulk pack ammo. The conversion units I have shot (I have only shot two of them but have read enough that I believe what I have seen is the norm) seem to shoot two to three times that.
I also believe that 223 bullets are larger than 22LR bullets. Aren't 223/5.56 bullets .224 in diameter and 22LR bullets .221 in diameter? Not much of a difference, but enough to make a difference if you want match accuracy. I have a regular Green Mountain barrel in my Spikes kit and it is plenty accurate for what I use it for. I have heard that by upgrading the Spikes with a Lothar Walther barrel, it is even more accurate.
I'm not really looking for match accuracy, it would just be a easy way to convert my AR to shoot 22LR mainly just for plinking and wasting cheap 22LR ammo, if they aren't bad for the AR I might just have to get me one...
I've been shooting a conversion kit with my Colt sp1 for over 20 years with no problems and it's a lot of fun, shoots pretty good too.I've never scope it to see just what it would shoot, but it'll put the hurt on a coke can at 50yrds
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