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Feb 12th, 2024
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 best defense handgun round
#707880
05/04/09 11:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,155
yam13f
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 Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: yam13f]
#707881
05/05/09 03:23 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 16,730
KC
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Ideally I'd take my .44 Blackhawk. Realistically I'll have my Kel Tec PF9 because I never leave home without it...
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: KC]
#707882
05/05/09 04:43 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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.45 jus has big bulletts lol!!!!!
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#707883
05/05/09 04:52 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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.40 has the more energy than the .45 with more rounds, than both the .45 and the .357.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: helomech]
#707884
05/05/09 11:01 AM
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Posts: 1,155
yam13f
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Quote:
.40 has the more energy than the .45 with more rounds, than both the .45 and the .357.
you beat me to it, lol. alot of people are of the bigger is better train of thought, but if you do the reasearch, the 40 out performs it every way, until you go to the +p 45's that is.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: helomech]
#707885
05/05/09 01:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,191
gogburn
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Quote:
.40 has the more energy than the .45 with more rounds, than both the .45 and the .357.
40 S&W, 180 gr. JHP/XTP 9136
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
950/361 903/326 862/297
Barrel Length (inches)
4" V
45 ACP, 185 gr. JHP/XTP 9090
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
970/386 910/340 860/304
Barrel Length (inches)
5
This is from the Hornady website. Larger diameter, more weight, more velocity, more energy... What am I missing? 
The fact that a given handgun holds "more rounds" really is not pertinent to the discussion of the "best defense handgun round." Is the 9mm a better round than the .40 because it holds more? I don't think so, some rounds just need more. 
Let the old .40 cal vs. .45 cal discussion begin, please keep it civil and stick to verifiable facts, examples would be nice. And remember, I didn't start it. 
Good Hunting,
Gary
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: gogburn]
#707886
05/05/09 04:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,232
janie
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I think the best round is the one your comfortable with and consistintly shoot well.
He is your friend defender your dog. Be worthy of such devotion ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/zhLJAGS.gif)
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: janie]
#707887
05/05/09 04:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,830
Kyle Horn
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i am with janie, what ever you will reliable carry becuase it is comfortable. if i was a bad guy going at some one and took just one round from a good bullet out of a .380 i promise i wouldn't have alot left in me. if i go at a guy with a .45 +p that he left in truck or at home...he is in trouble. sorry this isn't "factual" but it is my opinion. the best caliber depends on what i am wearing that day, and many other varibles.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: janie]
#707888
05/05/09 04:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,841
twice70
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Quote:
I think the best round is the one your comfortable with and consistintly shoot well.
Well said. 
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: gogburn]
#707889
05/05/09 08:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
Quote:
.40 has the more energy than the .45 with more rounds, than both the .45 and the .357.
40 S&W, 180 gr. JHP/XTP 9136
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
950/361 903/326 862/297
Barrel Length (inches)
4" V
45 ACP, 185 gr. JHP/XTP 9090
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
970/386 910/340 860/304
Barrel Length (inches)
5
This is from the Hornady website. Larger diameter, more weight, more velocity, more energy... What am I missing?
The fact that a given handgun holds "more rounds" really is not pertinent to the discussion of the "best defense handgun round." Is the 9mm a better round than the .40 because it holds more? I don't think so, some rounds just need more.
Let the old .40 cal vs. .45 cal discussion begin, please keep it civil and stick to verifiable facts, examples would be nice. And remember, I didn't start it.
From winchester site for .40. That puts it at almost 500 ft/lbs for the .40. Show me a .45ACP that beats that in a standard factory load.
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 50 100
Remington® Express™ 155 499 413 356
Golden Saber™ 165 485 396 340
UMC® 165 485 396 340
Remington® Express™ 180 412 368 334
Golden Saber™ 180 412 368 334
UMC® Leadless™ 180 388 350 319
UMC® 180 412 368 334
UMC® 180 388 350 319
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: helomech]
#707890
05/05/09 08:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
KellyAsh
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Helo and I went through this before. The bottom line in the .40 vs .45 argument is that it really depends on the particular round and barrel length. They are so closely matched that its pretty much a moot point unless you want to argue very specific criteria....but I am gonig to take Helos challenge and find a higher energy .45 
Last edited by KellyAsh; 05/05/09 08:50 PM.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: KellyAsh]
#707891
05/05/09 08:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
Helo and I went through this before. The bottom line in the .40 vs .45 argument is that it really depends on the particular round and barrel length. They are so closely matched that its pretty much a moot point unless you want to argue very specific criteria....but I am gonig to take Helos challenge and find a higher energy .45
Cool, I will be researching higher .40's also. that was just the first site I went to.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: helomech]
#707892
05/05/09 09:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
KellyAsh
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[quote From winchester site for .40. That puts it at almost 500 ft/lbs for the .40. Show me a .45ACP that beats that in a standard factory load. Energy (ft-lbs) Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 50 100 Remington® Express™ 155 499 413 356 Golden Saber™ 165 485 396 340 UMC® 165 485 396 340 Remington® Express™ 180 412 368 334 Golden Saber™ 180 412 368 334 UMC® Leadless™ 180 388 350 319 UMC® 180 412 368 334 UMC® 180 388 350 319
Heres one of a few that I found that beat the .40s ballistics you showed, Helo:
Corbon 200 gr .45 ACP +P
Caliber Bullet Muzzle Vel Muzzle Energy
.45ACP+P 165 gr JHP 1,250 573
Do I win? 
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: KellyAsh]
#707893
05/05/09 09:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
KellyAsh
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Hahaha I love a good challenge.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: KellyAsh]
#707894
05/05/09 09:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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LMAO, now I need to start looking.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: KellyAsh]
#707895
05/05/09 09:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
[quote
From winchester site for .40. That puts it at almost 500 ft/lbs for the .40. Show me a .45ACP that beats that in a standard factory load.
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 50 100
Remington® Express™ 155 499 413 356
Golden Saber™ 165 485 396 340
UMC® 165 485 396 340
Remington® Express™ 180 412 368 334
Golden Saber™ 180 412 368 334
UMC® Leadless™ 180 388 350 319
UMC® 180 412 368 334
UMC® 180 388 350 319
Heres one of a few that I found that beat the .40s ballistics you showed, Helo:
Corbon 200 gr .45 ACP +P
Caliber Bullet Muzzle Vel Muzzle Energy
.45ACP+P 165 gr JHP 1,250 573
Do I win?
Where did you find that? I want to see what they list the .40 at.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: KellyAsh]
#707896
05/05/09 09:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
[quote
From winchester site for .40. That puts it at almost 500 ft/lbs for the .40. Show me a .45ACP that beats that in a standard factory load.
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 50 100
Remington® Express™ 155 499 413 356
Golden Saber™ 165 485 396 340
UMC® 165 485 396 340
Remington® Express™ 180 412 368 334
Golden Saber™ 180 412 368 334
UMC® Leadless™ 180 388 350 319
UMC® 180 412 368 334
UMC® 180 388 350 319
Heres one of a few that I found that beat the .40s ballistics you showed, Helo:
Corbon 200 gr .45 ACP +P
Caliber Bullet Muzzle Vel Muzzle Energy
.45ACP+P 165 gr JHP 1,250 573
Do I win?
Nope you don't win yet.
I got a 115 grain at 614ft/lbs energy.
http://gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Chart_C/AMMUNITION+BALLISTICS+FOR+.40+S%2526W
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: KellyAsh]
#707898
05/05/09 10:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 839
ilike2hunt2
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Ok guy and gals, put all the "ballistics" stuff aside for a minute. I have worked a whole lot of shootings and here is some real world advise. Pick a gun that "point shoots" the best for you. Studies show that most gun fights take place within 3 to 7 yards and just like most of you, I don't need sights at that range. Like a camera, you just point and shoot. Then get some really good "people stopping" ammo and once you do all that....PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!! Just $.02 from your friendly local LEO.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: KellyAsh]
#707899
05/05/09 10:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,203
Koenig
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 never trust a man that rents pigs....
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: ilike2hunt2]
#707900
05/05/09 10:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
Ok guy and gals, put all the "ballistics" stuff aside for a minute. I have worked a whole lot of shootings and here is some real world advise. Pick a gun that "point shoots" the best for you. Studies show that most gun fights take place within 3 to 7 yards and just like most of you, I don't need sights at that range. Like a camera, you just point and shoot. Then get some really good "people stopping" ammo and once you do all that....PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!! Just $.02 from your friendly local LEO.
You are correct, me and kelly ash are just having fun. It started on a post a while ago.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: ilike2hunt2]
#707901
05/05/09 10:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
KellyAsh
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We dont want to put the ballistics aside. Thats what this thread is about. We are currently trying to find which round, the .40 or the .45 provides the most energy as touted by manufacturers.
We've had a ton of discussions on the defensive tactics subject and will have plenty more. Get with the program lawman! hahahaha Seriously though, welcome to the discussion. Its funny you mentioning the not using sights comment. I drilled out my factory sight paint and left them plain so they wont tempt me to try and waste time trying to get a good sight picture....point and shoot, just like you said.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: KellyAsh]
#707902
05/05/09 11:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,191
gogburn
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Kelly, I will bow to your greater expertise and pass this battle on to you. The .45ACP discussion appears to be in very capable hands. Besides, I'm going out of town and didn't want Helo to think I just gave up. I'll check in when I get back. Good Luck.
Good Hunting,
Gary
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: gogburn]
#707903
05/05/09 11:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
Kelly, I will bow to your greater expertise and pass this battle on to you. The .45ACP discussion appears to be in very capable hands.
Besides, I'm going out of town and didn't want Helo to think I just gave up. I'll check in when I get back. Good Luck.
LMAO, come on it is just getting fun. 
BTW the .40 is in the lead.
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Re: best defense handgun round
[Re: helomech]
#707904
05/06/09 12:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,191
gogburn
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I hate to leave in the heat of the battle. But, the turkeys are calling... this is a Hunting site after all. Anyway, the round you specified doesn't even have a bullet.  It is a safety slug made up of rat shot, it wouldn't penetrate a leather jacket. DISQUALIFIED  Ok, now I've really got to go. Pick it up from here Kelly.
Good Hunting,
Gary
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