if you read this it shows how little risk warfarin actually poses given the fact that the new regs make it state registered use meaning that only LICENSED pest professionals, (like myself) would be able to purchase and apply this product. everyones panic is due to pure ignorance. this bait will be used far less than anyone is assuming and even when it is employed, it will be to specific sounders, that are unlikely to be hunted and eaten before they expire...


ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS

Effects on Birds

The acute avian toxicity of warfarin indicates that it is practically non-toxic to game birds. In subacute studies, warfarin ranged from moderately toxic to practically non-toxic to upland game birds and waterfowl (13). Another source indicated that an acute oral mallard duck study was performed with a 10% formulation of warfarin. This formulation of warfarin was considered moderately toxic to mallard ducks (LC50 greater than 120 mg/kg) when administered as a single dose. However, when exposed to 60 mg/kg for a period of 14 days, 4 out of 5 ducks died (12).
Chickens are relatively resistant to warfarin (4).

Effects on Aquatic Organisms

The toxicity of warfarin to aquatic organisms is felt to be of low potential due to the fact that warfarin is insoluble in water. A long field experience shows no potential hazards to aquatic organisms (13).
A 96-hour rainbow trout study was performed using a 0.54% formulation of warfarin sodium salt. With a 96-hour LC50 of greater than 10,000 ppm, this formulation is considered non-toxic to rainbow trout (12).

Effects on Other Animals (Nontarget species)

Warfarin used as a prepared bait (0.13%) is considered non-toxic to bees when used as prescribed (1, 3).

So most game birds are not severely affected, as are chickens. Ducks are a separate issue, although I'm not sure how they would come into contact with the poison. Of more concern might be vultures and raptors which dine on carrion. I saw a bald eagle last weekend chowing down on a couple of hog carcasses we'd dumped a couple of days before …

and what else is gonna kill ?????

From the article Mickey cited, it had a link to an Australian study (where Warfarin is no longer used). Here is the abstract. How many landowners are going to pay for this?



So they essentially needed 1 feeding location per 3 hogs relative to the initial population. Interesting that the cost per hog went up after the initial kill. Assuming you could extrapolate costs then to now, correctly for the exchange rate and inflation $A39 in 1987 is about $65 per hog in 2017 US $. $A47 come out to be about $76 US for maintenance hogs. We have 3-5 million hogs right now and just running with the lower number that would be a cost of $195-325 million, which seems reasonable, but who is going to pay for it?

We are going to need 1-1.67 million feeders if you go by number of hogs.

If this is a geographic distribution, they had 69 feeding locations for 94.4 km2. Texas is 1,717,854 km2. So we would need approximately 1,255,635 locations.

Heck, I'm still trying to find the research that demonstrate this as a real number... Seems actual research is hard to come by.. LOL...

Yeah, nobody knows how many hogs are in Texas. The claims have been made for years that we had 2 or 2.5 million hogs and were growing at 20% per year and needed to kill off 70% of the hog population each year just to maintain the same population. I don't know where they came up with their math or how they did their census, but based on my estimate from the first time I saw where there were 2 million hogs in Texas with a 20% population growth rate, we should be well over 10 million hogs.

Now, Sid Miller is still saying that we have 2 million hogs. That is a number that I found where a biologist for the the state was quoted in claiming back in 2005, not that I have a clue as to how the biologist(s) determined we had 2 million hogs then.

So my 3-5 million number was a generously low estimate, based on the claims being made by people in the know (the biologists for the state, folks at Texas A&M, etc.).

Suffice it to say that it will take a lot of feeders, lure, and bait to kill all those hogs and a lot of under under which to bury them.

Below is my exchange with Sid Miller. Starts at bottom. Such an ill-conceived idea.

*********************

Thank you for your response. I beg to differ on all three of your points. I am happy to send you published scientific references on all of these points if you so wish. Further, you failed to address my additional points of economic impact, the reduction of feral hogs by hunters that will now not be present for fear of poisoned meat, and the poisoning of other animals.

1) You cite the concentration of warfarin within the product. However, it is not the concentration that is the relevant metric. Rather it is the total accumulation warfarin -- a poison that is quite stable. I dare say that a hog will eat much more than a rodent. You'd be fine drinking a tablespoon of ocean water, but not several gallons -- although the concentration is the same, it is the total amount that is of concern rather than the percent warfarin in the product.

2) Firstly, warfarin poisoning of feral pigs is prohibited in some sates in Australia. Secondly, when evaluating the Australian poison program for feral pigs, Massei et al. (2011) strongly recommended immediate bans on feral hog meat consumption following the poison baiting. Thirdly, Australian studies have also noted large numbers of other animals consuming and being poisoned by feral pig bait, including foxes, kangaroos, wallabies, and birds. Lapidge and Eason (2010) and Cowled et al. (2008) report poisoning of 28 marsupial species, 4 reptile species and 2 bird species.

3) If you've eaten feral hogs, you will have noticed that the muscle is lean but also somewhat marbled with lipid-dense tissue (that is, fat). Indeed, all vertebrates have fat in their skeletal muscles. You cannot eat muscle without eating some fat. In addition, the fat turns blue after a period of time following ingestion. If a feral hog had recently eaten warfarin and it was circulating in the blood system (that is how it gets into the fat tissues), then the hunter would not see the blue color even though warfarin is present in the animal.

Mr. Miller, I understand the issue of feral hogs and I've seen the incredible damage that they cause. I'm also aware of the pathogens that they can carry. I've shot and eaten dozens of feral hogs in Texas. Isn't there any way of promoting feral hog hunting instead of using poison? There are hundreds of thousands of hunters in the upper Midwest who would love to hunt feral hogs in Texas and consume the meat. But, living out of state, it's hard to figure out where these opportunities are in Texas. Publish the contact information for Texas farmers who want feral hogs hunted on their property. Have public land experts show hunters where they can hunt feral hogs. I'll personally go down to Texas and spend a month shooting as many feral hogs as I can.

Sincerely,
Steve


*************************


Your concerns are unfounded. Rat and mice warfarin is .025 active ingredient. Kuput bait is .005. No other animal or bird will be effected. This product
has been in use in Australia for years ,no problems. It turns the hog blue on the fat inside. Warfarin does not enter the muscle only the fat and liver. Hope this helps

Sid Miller
Texas Agriculture Commisioner


***********************************

To: Commissioner Miller

I am a professional biologist and hunter. The idea to use warfarin-containing bait to control feral hogs is absolutely poorly-conceived. This will

1) impact non-intended species such as birds of prey and pet dogs. Will you be delivering high-dose vitamin K for these animals to remediate the effects of warfarin?

2) reduce existing hunting pressure on the feral hog population as meat hunters will be reluctant to continue their activities.

3) reduce the economic activity surrounding feral hog hunting in Texas. I, for example, will discontinue my trips to Texas to hunt feral hogs for meat in which I spend thousands of dollars in the Texas economy. My trips will be to other states until your policy is changed.

and 4) you may kill people with uncontrollable bleeds who have ingested contaminated meat. Many people have genetic variants or vitamin K deficient diets that make them highly sensitive to small quantities of warfarin.

Please do not poison feral hogs in Texas.

I just want to offer something here. I see a lot of bantering here about whether the meat will affect humans. That is fine...and I believe a legit concern. There are also concerns about an entire industry built around this. Hunters, trappers, hog doggers, helicopter hunters, landowners that make a living off hunts, outfitters, the meat buyers, the hunting accessory business, night vision retailers, night vision manufacturers and on and on... It is huge business in Texas that Commissioner Miller says this policy isn't for...something he is actually right about.

There is another concern that will take you farther than than whether the meat affects humans or causes collateral damage. Say what you will about hogs, love them or hate them, but the biggest hot key item that will bring support is the fact that it is such a downright inhumane way to do this. It is THE key reason that Australia started phasing it out in 2009 and subsequently banned it altogether. I have seen research that has shown hogs die from 1 - 31 days, but generally withing about a week. It is a slow agonizing, painful death. I believe this point will get us further than anything else. I know some folks want them all dead and that is fine, you can have your opinion. But the vast majority of us are here because we enjoy hunting them in whatever manner you choose. Anyway, shoot the messenger if you want, but I think this has not been considered enough.

Bye bye piggys

Signed...

Maybe there's something here...


PETA and Feral hogs

Charlie

I am in

Signed

The lady that made the statements name is Stephanie Bell. She is a animal-cruelty director for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and is based in Seattle.

It is the dosage that is the poison, not the warfarin. With that it is not just the amount of warfarin contained pellet, block, or pill, but also how many invested. Rat poison is applied in a 2 oz packet or block. Hog poison is going to come in 25 or 50 lb bags. The feeder used can't control the amount of feed per animal be it hog or off target animal or the number of feedings. It may be excreted and metabolised in 48 hours, but that does not matter if a hog continues to feed up to near death. Animals eating those hogs, the stomach contents, and the "excreted" waste can still be poisoned if they eat enough of it enough times. These hogs due to the nature of the poison will seek water and die in or near it. My biggest concern is my dogs out hinting. They will be unable to resist not eating those bright green poo pile treats when encountered. When my dog circled the drain from a warfarin poisoning, it was a low dose making the problem hard to detect in blood work initially. It was believed to be from eating a dead rat or squirrel because several had been showing up dead in yards on our street. When the animal er vet called poison control with the question the answer was the amount of rat poison my dog injested did not matter if not countered with vitamin k, but that it may take longer to kill her. I can say from experience it will be a long cruel painful death for these animals.

Show her this picture.

Done.

I signed. There are to many words like moderate,educated use,and proper dosage. Moderate does not mean full proof. Educated use is what they always use to release liability from themselves same with proper dosage.

Where are all of these poisoned bigs going to end up (scattered throughout the farmers land stinking and rotting) or worse neighbors land. Or do we think that coyotes are going to devour this mass poisoning of pigs.which if happens will create a boom in predators and then we will need to poison those.

I am a firm believer that if you get the right hunters on a property you can deter hog damage. I have seen it happen over and over guy says I'm covered up with pigs me and the boys will go out shoot a few and push them off the property for a while.

Anyway there is no great answer that I can come up with. But I definitely think poisoning should be out.

bump

I'm in

thinking, hunting, trapping can control hogs, how is it working so far. NOT...

Thinking, you have about as much research data as the TDA to back that up. LOL...

hmmmm, peta, is this the same peta that runs the shelter in va ?

The group euthanized 2,454 of its 3,369 cats, dogs and other animals, the vast majority of which were “owner surrenders,” meaning that they’d been relinquished to the group voluntarily. Just 23 dogs and 16 cats were adopted.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/05/pets-shelter-euthanization-rate_n_6612490.html




what amazes me is that here we have created a problem for ourselves that we now have to control some way yet all of a sudden it is cruel and mean to kill hogs with poison, how about mice/rats do they not die in the same way from the same chemical? how many hogs have run off after a hunter shoots, even with a well placed shot.


seems pretty hypocritical to me to be okay with it on one end of the spectrum but not on the other.