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ATF and classifieds
#6606820
12/29/16 04:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,909
leswad
OP
Extreme Tracker
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OP
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,909 |
Curious if any members have ever been contacted by this organization for buying and selling without a license? Seems the rules have some grayish areas... ATF Guide
FJB
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: leswad]
#6606890
12/29/16 05:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,609
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
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Taking Requests
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,609 |
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: leswad]
#6606915
12/29/16 05:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 21,923
Mike W
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 21,923 |
Consistent with this approach, federal law explicitly exempts persons “who make occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.”
This cannot be fixed at the voting booth.. Wake Up You Morons!
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: Mike W]
#6606917
12/29/16 05:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,956
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,956 |
Consistent with this approach, federal law explicitly exempts persons “who make occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.” I guess it all depends on how the ATF defines "occasional sales"
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: leswad]
#6607036
12/29/16 07:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,573
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,573 |
Sounds like if you are intentionally buying/selling for profit you need a license. Only you know why your doing it and they would have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in court. But yeah I see a lot of people here and other places that could probably get in a little trouble if the govt. ever thought they were big enough fish to fry.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: SapperTitan]
#6607071
12/29/16 07:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,674
91cavgt
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,674 |
.... and thrown in ditches.
God has a plan and something special in mind for all of us. Do you know the direction that God wants to send you?
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: unclebubba]
#6607078
12/29/16 07:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716
BigPig
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716 |
Consistent with this approach, federal law explicitly exempts persons “who make occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.” I guess it all depends on how the ATF defines "occasional sales" Yup. 8 gun sales to ATF agents in 3 weeks is defined as excessive. Luckily they had pitty on an 18 year old who didn't know any better.
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: leswad]
#6607079
12/29/16 07:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,960
ChadTRG42
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,960 |
I have been contacted for a few transfers I did for someone. This was years ago and this person was engaged in the selling of firearms, mainly AR's and pistols on the internet. He was unlicensed and sold many firearms for profit on a daily basis. He had shipped some pistols to someone not through an FFL (which is illegal), and was selling many firearms for profit, and got caught. The occasional firearm selling of personal firearms is fine. But doing it for profit on a regular basis is "being engaged" in the gun business.
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: leswad]
#6608832
12/31/16 02:16 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,249
Marc K
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,249 |
On a different note, folks were tagged for "being in the business" of selling ammo back during the shortage. Not related to FFL, but certainly related to sales tax collection/filing - not to mention IRS income......
A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: Marc K]
#6609435
12/31/16 04:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,800
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,800 |
On a different note, folks were tagged for "being in the business" of selling ammo back during the shortage. Not related to FFL, but certainly related to sales tax collection/filing - not to mention IRS income...... For those selling in the classifieds. 2 sales is okay, 3 sales in a calendar year and you should be collecting and filing state sales taxes. https://www.comptroller.texas.gov/taxes/publications/94-437.pdf
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: leswad]
#6609677
12/31/16 08:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,955
Sniper John
gumshoe
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gumshoe
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,955 |
Curious if any members have ever been contacted by this organization for buying and selling without a license? Seems the rules have some grayish areas... ATF Guide I made a sale of a rifle from my collection via the forum a few years ago. I was later contacted by the ATF. They were doing a reverse trace on the rifle and wanted records of who I sold it to. When I purchased the rifle I had an 03 C&R FFL but it had since expired. A reverse trace usually involves a firearm involved in a criminal investigation where using the serial number or importer's mark, they contact the manufacturer or importer to see who it was sold to, then so on and so on till the trail stops. I think it is standard procedure for any gun they pick up. I never want such a trace to end with me, so I have always required an ID any time I sale a gun from my collection to someone I do not personally know and logged it out of my old bound book. While licensed I had no choice but to obtain this information for my bound book anyway. The ATF investigator seemed ready to grill me with questions over the phone. To make sure who I was talking to I asked the investigator to allow me to call her back at her office. She did start to play a little "bad cop" with me with some questions but I had the right answer for everything and provided her the buyer's drivers license number. I think surprised her since I had let my license expire before I sold the rifle. This took me out of the loop and I never heard back. I did ask the investigator what it was about, but she could not tell me. I got the feeling from the way she directed some of the questions that it may have been related to the buyer and unlicensed dealing, but just a feeling. I can't say for sure. Looking at the member's history they had bought and sold multiple guns on this forum and others for some time. Some openly flipped between forums. They had stopped posting on all forums at that time as well.
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: leswad]
#6609708
12/31/16 08:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,955
Sniper John
gumshoe
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gumshoe
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,955 |
A long time ATF sting was and probably still is an ATF guy carrying a rifle around at a gunshow and offering it to a known unlicensed or could even be an 03FFL seller at a ridiculous price, selling it to them and walking away. After the seller puts the rifle on the table at a higher price for profit as expected, a second ATF guy walks up and buys it. Busted. So know you can get in trouble for a single sell if your openly buying firearms with the intent to flip them for profit.
I have an 03FFL. For the most part an 03FFL is no different than an unlicensed individual except that an 03 can buy direct across state lines and is only for enhancing your personal collection. So way back in the good old days when I first got an 03 FFL there were deals like 3 fer $100 M39 Mosins and 4 fer $100 Turkish Mausers with free shipping to be had. My circle of 03 licensed friends sent a letter to ATF asking if we could buy one of these 3 fer deals to pick the best one for our collection and sell the others. The reply was NO if the purchase was made with the intent to sell two of them. The key word is intent here.
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: leswad]
#6612433
01/02/17 06:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,249
Marc K
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,249 |
And "intent" can be in the eye of the beholder, which can be rough when the beholder is a government agency tasked with getting more revenue.......
A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
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Re: ATF and classifieds
[Re: 91cavgt]
#6615098
01/04/17 01:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 145
chrswr
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 145 |
.... and thrown in ditches. Like little *itches......
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