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Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
#6576004
12/07/16 04:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,281
Texas Dan
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So you think you can hold that lightweight rifle more steady than a heavier gun? Think again. Link
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6576009
12/07/16 04:40 PM
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fouzman
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That's why all of the guns I stand or high-rack hunt with have heavy contour stainless barrels and weigh 12-13 pounds.
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6576011
12/07/16 04:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,730
BigPig
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Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I can make far more shot in target standing unsupported with my 6lb AR15 than with my 14lb bolt gun.
Last edited by BigPig; 12/07/16 04:40 PM.
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6576035
12/07/16 04:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 810
JESmith
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6576055
12/07/16 04:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,654
MacDaddy21
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Is the author of the article even talking about shooting unsupported? It mainly seemed like he was claiming that heavier rifles were easier to hold steady when you are in shooting position or using a rest of some sort.
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: MacDaddy21]
#6576097
12/07/16 05:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,281
Texas Dan
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Is the author of the article even talking about shooting unsupported? It mainly seemed like he was claiming that heavier rifles were easier to hold steady when you are in shooting position or using a rest of some sort. While my personal experience has always agreed with those who say a heavier gun is easier to steady without a solid rest, I believe the same mechanics apply when using one. In fact, I would say I need a rest to hold a light gun as steady as I can an unsupported heavier rifle. The issue brings to mind another shooting mechanic where there is often debate. That is, using a lower magnification increases your ability to steady your rifle. Yes, you can see crosshair wobble more easily with a higher scope magnification. However, you can better control it by turning it down.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6576108
12/07/16 05:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,192
Tactical Cowboy
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There's a reason why target rifles are heavy. The Match rifles and Service Rifles at Camp Perry will weigh about 15lb.
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6576114
12/07/16 05:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,088
Creedmoor
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It all depends on technique. I was taught to look for a support. If that wasn't available then get into a proper shooting position. Anyone with good training rarely shoots "offhand". That's what God gave us knees and elbows for. I choose which rifle I carry based on how far I am going to have to carry it, what my surroundings are, and more importantly what caliber I need for the game. I always choose the heavier rifle if I can.
. There's a fine line between BRAVE ... and STUPID.
The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Tactical Cowboy]
#6576128
12/07/16 05:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,281
Texas Dan
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There's a reason why target rifles are heavy. The Match rifles and Service Rifles at Camp Perry will weigh about 15lb. That's twice the weight of my heaviest rifle, a wood-stocked Weatherby .270.
Last edited by Texas Dan; 12/07/16 05:41 PM.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6576288
12/07/16 07:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,784
Gone to Texas
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Offhand, I shoot a lighter gun better. Off a rest, I shoot a heavier gun better.
That's just me though, I surely do not speak for everyone.
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6576522
12/07/16 09:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 246
Jbell99
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Not sure on rifles but I can say for sure a heavier pistol usually shoots better with less recoil. I had a buddy who took a desert eagle in 50ae in as a trade and told me to go with him to shoot it that pistol was heavy but dead accurate I was able to group bullseye no problem
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6576597
12/07/16 10:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,590
TexFlip
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I like my hunting rifles like I like my women. Short, thick, and quiet.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6576699
12/07/16 11:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 776
piney woods hunter
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am falling for the short thick ones myself
NRA all the way god guns and guts made us free , i want all three
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: TexFlip]
#6576713
12/08/16 12:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,330
Judd
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I like my hunting rifles like I like my women. Short, thick, and quiet. you need a barrel sticker of exactly that
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6576798
12/08/16 01:20 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,825
poisonivie
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Is the author of the article even talking about shooting unsupported? It mainly seemed like he was claiming that heavier rifles were easier to hold steady when you are in shooting position or using a rest of some sort. While my personal experience has always agreed with those who say a heavier gun is easier to steady without a solid rest, I believe the same mechanics apply when using one. In fact, I would say I need a rest to hold a light gun as steady as I can an unsupported heavier rifle. The issue brings to mind another shooting mechanic where there is often debate. That is, using a lower magnification increases your ability to steady your rifle. Yes, you can see crosshair wobble more easily with a higher scope magnification. However, you can better control it by turning it down. The wobble doesn't change with magnification, your perception of it does.
Pee on Photobucket
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: poisonivie]
#6576882
12/08/16 02:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,281
Texas Dan
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Is the author of the article even talking about shooting unsupported? It mainly seemed like he was claiming that heavier rifles were easier to hold steady when you are in shooting position or using a rest of some sort. While my personal experience has always agreed with those who say a heavier gun is easier to steady without a solid rest, I believe the same mechanics apply when using one. In fact, I would say I need a rest to hold a light gun as steady as I can an unsupported heavier rifle. The issue brings to mind another shooting mechanic where there is often debate. That is, using a lower magnification increases your ability to steady your rifle. Yes, you can see crosshair wobble more easily with a higher scope magnification. However, you can better control it by turning it down. The wobble doesn't change with magnification, your perception of it does. And the lower perception impacts your muscle reflexes which are not quick and precise enough to correct the wobble you see more clearly with a higher magnification. There are basically three ways to deal with wobble: 1. Use a solid rest to help steady the gun 2. Turn down the magnification so that wobble becomes less noticeable. As a result, you'll stop "chasing" a steady aim. (This also points to why a heavier gun is easier to hold steady. The heavier weight puts a greater load on your reflexes, which helps reduce wobble.) 3. Since it's impossible to hold a completely still and steady aim, train your muscle reflexes to create circular movements as tight as possible around the target center.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: poisonivie]
#6577244
12/08/16 01:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,806
Deerhunter61
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Is the author of the article even talking about shooting unsupported? It mainly seemed like he was claiming that heavier rifles were easier to hold steady when you are in shooting position or using a rest of some sort. While my personal experience has always agreed with those who say a heavier gun is easier to steady without a solid rest, I believe the same mechanics apply when using one. In fact, I would say I need a rest to hold a light gun as steady as I can an unsupported heavier rifle. The issue brings to mind another shooting mechanic where there is often debate. That is, using a lower magnification increases your ability to steady your rifle. Yes, you can see crosshair wobble more easily with a higher scope magnification. However, you can better control it by turning it down. The wobble doesn't change with magnification, your perception of it does. Thank you... I use the best power for the occasion. I use higher magnification as a rule. The only time I turn the mag down is in low light.
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6577255
12/08/16 02:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Is the author of the article even talking about shooting unsupported? It mainly seemed like he was claiming that heavier rifles were easier to hold steady when you are in shooting position or using a rest of some sort. While my personal experience has always agreed with those who say a heavier gun is easier to steady without a solid rest, I believe the same mechanics apply when using one. In fact, I would say I need a rest to hold a light gun as steady as I can an unsupported heavier rifle. The issue brings to mind another shooting mechanic where there is often debate. That is, using a lower magnification increases your ability to steady your rifle. Yes, you can see crosshair wobble more easily with a higher scope magnification. However, you can better control it by turning it down. You're not controlling it any better. It just appears that way because the reticle movement is more exaggerated at higher power. All else being equal, a heavier rifle is easier to shoot accurately. Pretty basic, but the ultra ultra light rifle craze a few years back proves that some lessons always need to be re-learned. A good basic weight for a mountain rifle is about 7-7 1/2 pounds all in. Goes up from there depending on the use/application. If all I ever used a rifle for was blind sitting I would take the Camp Perry approach too.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6577267
12/08/16 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,281
Texas Dan
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You're not controlling it any better. It just appears that way because the reticle movement is more exaggerated at higher power. To the contrary, it's much like keeping a vehicle more evenly spaced in the middle of the lane by keeping a perspective or view further down the road. The mind is providing inputs the muscles and reflexes are more capable of tracking without over correction. I'm sure it could be better explained by someone well versed in Control Systems theory, which I am clearly not.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Gone to Texas]
#6599270
12/23/16 04:02 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,416
crash700
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[quote=Gone to Texas]Offhand, I shoot a lighter gun better. Off a rest, I shoot a heavier gun better.
I agree with that. I shoot my Tikka T3 Lite good off hand, but shoot my Heavy 308 very well off a stand or bagged up. Its all about getting steady.
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6599748
12/23/16 04:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
colt45-90
Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
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Is the author of the article even talking about shooting unsupported? It mainly seemed like he was claiming that heavier rifles were easier to hold steady when you are in shooting position or using a rest of some sort. While my personal experience has always agreed with those who say a heavier gun is easier to steady without a solid rest, I believe the same mechanics apply when using one. In fact, I would say I need a rest to hold a light gun as steady as I can an unsupported heavier rifle. The issue brings to mind another shooting mechanic where there is often debate. That is, using a lower magnification increases your ability to steady your rifle. Yes, you can see crosshair wobble more easily with a higher scope magnification. However, you can better control it by turning it down. The wobble doesn't change with magnification, your perception of it does. And the lower perception impacts your muscle reflexes which are not quick and precise enough to correct the wobble you see more clearly with a higher magnification. There are basically three ways to deal with wobble: 1. Use a solid rest to help steady the gun 2. Turn down the magnification so that wobble becomes less noticeable. As a result, you'll stop "chasing" a steady aim. (This also points to why a heavier gun is easier to hold steady. The heavier weight puts a greater load on your reflexes, which helps reduce wobble.) 3. Since it's impossible to hold a completely still and steady aim, train your muscle reflexes to create circular movements as tight as possible around the target center. this
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: TexFlip]
#6600072
12/23/16 07:10 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,064
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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I like my hunting rifles like I like my women. Short, thick, and quiet. My man!
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6601203
12/24/16 07:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
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I have owned several Marlin 1895's, and the best by far for off-hand shooting is the 1895CB model with the 26" tapered octagon barrel, and full-length magazine tube.
The trick to shooting off-hand with a heavier barrel is to swing it up, obtain the sight picture and fire in one smooth motion. - If you take time to do anything else, muscle tremors will screw up your accuracy. If you are slow at getting the sight picture, then you might as well forget it and find a rest of some kind. It all must be done quickly and smoothly.
A low powered scope, or a peep sight with a large aperture is best for this. I've not tried a dot sight with a heavy rifle but it would probably work, too.
I developed this technique back when I shot black powder rifles with long, heavy barrels. It works and with practice, it works very well.
Last edited by charlesb; 12/24/16 07:35 PM.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Heavy guns often mean sure shooting
[Re: charlesb]
#6601280
12/24/16 08:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,281
Texas Dan
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The trick to shooting off-hand with a heavier barrel is to swing it up, obtain the sight picture and fire in one smooth motion. - If you take time to do anything else, muscle tremors will screw up your accuracy. If you are slow at getting the sight picture, then you might as well forget it and find a rest of some kind. It all must be done quickly and smoothly.
A low powered scope, or a peep sight with a large aperture is best for this. This is so "outside the box" for many shooters, and yet, so true.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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