They're talking inches on the target, at the target, but not a single person can get precise using that, it's just a rough estimate.

If you wanted to use a 100 yard zeroed 270 at 200 yards you could dial or hold .4 Mil, or dial or hold 1 1/2 MOA. I don't speak in clicks, or count clicks with a Mil or MOA scope. Read the numbers on the turret

Why did the guy zero his rifle at 168yds?

^^^ I would guess it is exact distance from his blind to his feeder.

Very interesting results. I am surprised that so many are zeroing at 100 yards.

Where I do most of my hunting in the thick woods our shots tend to be <50 yards with the odd shot out to 75 yards and every once in a while (twice in the last 10 years) I'll get a shot out to 100 yards. My impression of Texas on the other hand was wide open country where the norm would be 200+ yards and everyone would be zeroed to either 200 or the MPBR. Enlightening - thanks for posting.

Typical terrain I hunt:



The only reason I have a 35 yard shot is because I cut a shooting lane.

^^That's just like much of east Texas.

This is SW Texas



The state offers a huge variety of terrain. I just drove back from Houston Thursday on I-45. That leads you through "The Big Thicket", which holds places you can't see one yard, much less one hundred.

I site my gun for mom = minute of meat!!

If I was hunting that 35 yard lane I'd be using open sites, fixed 4x, or 1-4x zeroed for 50.

He was the least experienced hunter in the group and had brought a new Savage to shoot. He explained that he did it because this maximized his MPBR on a 4" target for his rifle and ammo.

After asking him a few more questions he said he hunts from an elevated box blind set up 90 yards from his feeder so I explained my opinion about how a 100 yard zero would work better in his situation and be much easier to initially set and verify.

In the end he kept his zero at 168 yards and had a good time and even managed to hit the 700 yard target a couple of times using a best guess holdover and Kentucky windage. He was having a hard time trying to work with MOA so I was giving him holdovers in targets (1 1/2 targets high and 1/2 target left).

Pretty sure he determined his personal range limit is 200 yards so I'm not too worried about him trying shoot an animal any farther than that.

Ritter,looks like you're doing a fine job helping out fellow hunters/ shooters.

I don't dial and I don't use a marked reticle. Since I am an American and we use the English system of measures and weights, I have been thinking in terms of inches, feet, and yards my entire life - for everything. Since I don't dial and I don't shoot long range, that's the best system for me as it requires no conversion thoughts.

I know what 6 inches looks like at various distances, and 15 inches, and so on. I have no idea what distance a Mil or MOA is at various ranges.

So I think in terms of inches.

I know a lot of hunters that think and shoot the same way and have seen more than a few of them be able to hold a 6"-8" group to 400 yards or more shooting the same way. More than accurate enough to put a bullet in the vitals of a medium game animal.

It comes down to experience and practice.

Yes. And 400 is pushing it for that method. Anything beyond that requires a different approach no doubt.

On at 200. Works for me

Same here on all my rifles.

I read a tape measure and use yards weekly. Any linear measurement, inches, feet, yards, millimeters, centimeters, meters does not work very well, and I can't teach it repeatedly. I can, however teach an angular measurement, Mil or MOA. I'd bet out of 100 guys that use the inches, or "hold right over the back" method, maybe ten could hit an 8" plate at 400 yards on the first round. Throw any wind in, and the number might be two. But give me a teenager to a ninety year old, and they'll smack the heck out of anything from 100 to 1000 using angular measurements.

For me, it depends on the rifle and where I expect to use it.

.243, deer hunting out of a blind in North Texas, don't ever expect a shot beyond 200 yards: Zero at 190 yards, depending on the load. That way, I'm plus or minus 1.5 inches out to about 225 yards. No, I don't have a target set up at 190. I generate a drop chart and confirm at 100 and 200.

.270 and .300 WM, mule deer or elk or ??? out of state: Zero at 200 yards. With my drop chart, I can hold over or dial up, as needed.

Other calibers: 1 inch high at 100 and I'm happy out to 150.

I don't believe that. I really cringe at that "easy/peezy" mindset out to 1000.

I do believe that dialing is superior and necessary at longer range, but if a 10 to 90 year old can simply buy them a dialing scope and become an automatic expert to 1000 - all those classes you teach are pretty much a waste of time.

But, that's the propaganda these days. I am a little surprised to see that post from you, since you have stated differently in other posts on the subject.

I don't dispute you on the non-dialers. Thing is, you use 400. 98% of hunters will never take a 400 yard shot - or ever desire to. Bring it down to 300 and you can actually have those 10-90 year olds hitting with consistency - even without a dial or subtended reticle. Firm to shoulder, exhale, and squeeze is about all you need....discounting "buck fever" of course - which can strike even the best of us.

Don't believe it, if you choose. I don't doubt you know what you're doing as an attorney, I guess I don't get the same in return. 400 was brought up in this thread more than once, that's where I got it from. And it is where I've seen things fall apart for many people, usually due to wind.

There is a proven method of getting it done without dialing. How many more years do I need to state that, before it sinks in? There is not always time to dial, so make a good hold, not a guess, a known hold for the distance. Same as wind, make a known hold for the wind that is judged.

Where did I say they would become an expert? I did not, you fabricated that. I said I could teach them how, and teach them what to practice. Becoming an expert on a topic has to be earned, and in this case it is not earned in one day. And we are hot shooting at living things, only pieces of steel.

I am not pushing any propaganda, nor trying to encourage long range kills. And again, I'll repeat myself since you're ignoring my statements. Shooting to 800 yards, after learning what it takes, makes anyone better for it at 100, 200, 300, and 400 yards.

10 to 90 year olds "smacking the heck out of anything from 100 to 1000". Geez, what's it take to be an expert? 1500? 2000? In your zeal to prove your way is the only way, you overspoke. Period.

This is not a long range thread. This is a guy asking everyone on the forum how they sight in their rifles. Most don't dial. Most don't shoot at game over 300-400.

Your answer is buy the stuff you suggest, take your class, and shoot at 800-1000 yards. I get it.

I...... dont have to answer that question.

Since you've never been there, I'll repeat what more than half say, "it's easy with someone calling wind".

I never said my way is the only way, only that the inches way is merely an estimation. You are estimating, plain and simple. It's not my fault you are butt hurt, once again, that you're estimating and hoping to get lucky, Mister hunting ethics, judging my way.

Sure isn't a long range thread, it did get off topic. Partly when you talked about being an "American" as if not using inches, the way so many of us do it, is not American.

Zero times have I shot a Texas listed "game animal" at long range. But I have hit many varmints and hogs at long range. And you know that I've stated that before.

OK,

"Where do you zero your rifle?"

I da bullseye

I am estimating. That's true. But I'm not "hoping to get lucky" (or butthurt). When your shots are at the ranges most folks shoot at game, estimating works fine within the parameters that have been shown/discussed on this thread. Plus has the added advantages of not having to dial or choose the right reticle - both of which are real advantages when hunting. Unlike steel plates, game animals move, turn, and can enter in and out of the sight picture quickly sometimes.

I have not found a game animal yet that died any slower or any deader because my bullet hit him an inch higher or lower than the exact hair my crosshair was resting on. But I have had a few that would have gotten away if I had to dial a scope in or maybe even pick a reticle. For me, that's reason enough not to use them. (In a very real sense, you're the one "hoping to get lucky" that a big buck or bull doesn't disappear while you are fiddling with all your precision equipment so you can hit the right hair instead of just putting him on the ground.)

And actually, at the ranges and with the "sight ins" most commonly discussed on here, there is very little estimation if the range is known.

Still not paying attention, or more so ignoring statements I've made in black and white.

Tell you what, you ever find yourself in Wolfe City, Texas we can see what I know how to do without touching the scope one single time. No turret dialing, and you can run the stop watch. We can play HORSE, with a hundred dollar bill, and a dinner of the winner's choosing on the line.

What it always come down to. (I'm a bada** and you're not! )I didn't say one thing about what you can or can't do. That's your game, not mine. You're the one not paying attention.

This is a "sight in for hunting" thread. The methods discussed in this thread work for hunting. Period.

Here's some more heresy - if the animal is under 250 or so, sometimes I don't even range him (depends on the circumstances). In practice, it's not necessary at those ranges with the sight-ins discussed. Just put the crosshairs about 1/3 of the way up, squeeze the trigger, and watch him die in short order.

Oh, and if you aren't dialing, you're "estimating" every bit as much as me.