Why is it that people are always putting others down for saying anything about hunting big bucks and saying that hunting it is all about the horns (by the way, they are ANTLERS)? I see post such as, "you can't eat antler", "the future of hunting is compromised because of trophy hunting", and "I wish deer did not have antlers". It seems that everyone is against you when you mention big or trophy buck.
As for me, like I said before, it is for the challenge. Nobody likes hundred dollar bills because they are green. They like them because of the value it represents; something they worked for. The same thing can be said for a kid or an adult that participates in a sports league. It is not all about the first place TROPHY, which is just made of a block of wood and golden plastic. It is about what it represents. It can be proudly displayed at home and it is something someone can take pride in and know they achieved something difficult or changing. It signifies achieving something great, rare, challenging, difficult, the experience etc. Big bucks are rare. Not everyone shoots or even sees a big buck year after year. To me it signifies more than just antlers, it is a trophy or reward for all my efforts and time spent in the field. It is knowing that I was able to harvest the one of the most lucrative species of all game in Texas in thier prime. An old, smart buck is, regardless of antler size, definitely a challenge and can take many hours or even seasons to harvest. It is not the antlers, but what they represent. They represent something different to everyone, but to me they represent a token of something I love to do and a memory that will last forever.
Yeah, I could probably fill my tags the first weekend and have a few does and a baby buck or two to show for it. However, that is not at all what I aim to do at all. I prefer to hunt the whole season and be selective of the deer I harvest. When I choose to take a buck, he will be fully mature or I just don't shoot one (except for culls). When I choose to harvest a doe, I try to pick a mature doe out that does not have any offspring. And, during the course of the whole year, I am feeding, planting, and managing the land in the best interest of all the deer. So what is trophy hunting? I think that is a great definition of a Trophy Hunter. Taking care and improving habitat for optimum growth and wellbeing of the deer herd. So, yes, I guess you can call me a TROPHY HUNTER. I appreciate it. I think I give more than what I take. How about you?

Well I hear people talk about how trophy hunting is a bad thing also, but that is really not the case. The older a deer gets, the less it does for the rest of the herd. They do not reproduce nearly as much, if at all, and just function to waste resources that would otherwise go to new, upcoming bucks. True, trophy hunting depletes the large-deer population in the very short term, but a regular regiment of taking the biggest bucks every year will skyrocket the number of them in coming years. How do you think outfitters grow such big deer?? They only shoot the huge ones who have stopped producing for the herd.

Mark,
This is one of those "revolving door" debates. I would say that I'm a little of both (trophy & meat hunter). However, there are many legitimate arguments from both sides. Just wanted to warn you that you're opening a "can of worms" with this post........speaking from experience.

You made several good points in your post. Where my problem comes in with Trophy hunting of Whitetails, especially in Texas, is that these "Trophies" for the most part are not old, mature animals, that have achieved their size by cunning and avoiding hunters and all the other hazards in nature. There are animals like that in the Piney Woods in East Texas, and maybe in a few other scattered localities.

Over most of Texas however, Whitetails are managed livestock. Go out and find a 150 or up buck, that has not lived behind a high fence all or part of its life, being fed high Protein feeds, or was the result of a selective breeding program.

I am not against Trophy Hunting in its purest form, or my idea of its purest forum, animals whether on public or private land, that have achieved their size and age, with little or no help from humans.

You said Big Bucks are rare, and are not shot every year. You are right, until you start talking about here in Texas, and that is why so many folks are down on the whole Trophy industry.

You want to look at something, look at how long the Jordan Buck, stood as the World Record. Now look at the Hansen Buck, it was produced under natural conditions as far as I can tell from what I have read about it. Now look in any of the Game/Deer breeding magazines out there. Whitetails that look like their mama was raped by a Caribou are for sale,as is their semen, or shed antlers. Price a pair of those sheds.

I would not have the problem with Trophy Hunting whitetails in Texas that I do, except for the fact, that the majority of those animals, reached those proportions with a good bit of human intervention.

Show me someone that kills a W.T. or any other trophy size animal off of public land, or low fenced private land that has minimal management practices, and I think it is great.

I tend to be more of a meat hunter, but have and will take a trophy animal if the chance arises. But for me, a Trophy is how I feel about that individual animal, and all the aspects of what it took for me to kill it. I see too many folks that live by the tape measure, and they not only judge their trophies by it, but they judge other peoples trophies by it.

If a person wants to hunt just trophies that is okay with me, I just don't want their desires tro be forced on to me, or to be treated as a lower life form simply because I do noot share their concepts.

It's not about "anlters". It's about regulating hunting in general. But, like JB said, it's circular reasoning and has been beaten plumb to death here, Mark. Let's just let bygones be bygones...ain't no use in beating that poor old horse anymore.

I guess my bigest problem with trophy hunting is that most, I would say probably around 80 to 90 percent of the people who shoot these "trophy" buck as you call them dont spend the time and effort hunting them, they just cut a fat check, and get the pen number to the one they are suposed to shoot. Also what happened to just wanting to get into the outdoors, ans spend time with family and freinds, now you have to shoot a big buck to boot. It just isnt what it is all about in my book.

matt

Mark, there may be hope for you yet! That was a good post that explained your position in a well thought out argument in which you did not present yourself as being better than someone else because of your views.

That being said, you have to remember (like CHC said)everyone's definiton of a trophy may be different. Yours, and even mine, are much different than say someone just getting involved in hunting.

The thrill of the hunt is the same for a young hunter shooting that doe, as it is for any of us persuing that 150 class buck. Definitely a "trophy" in both cases.

I don't have problem with it, I would love to kill a monster someday (9-pt 125 is my biggest so far). I do have a problem if the state manages and regulates ALL deer hunting to trophy hunting standards.....

But I am all for killing a trophy, but I don't want to be limited to a trophy.

TROLLIN' TROLLIN' TROLLIN'
Like others have already said, it's not about
being against someone wanting to get a big set
of antlers, it's about the TPWD using its resources
to FORCE these practices on all hunters. I really
could not care less about how, why or what you hunt.
And even though you made your case well in the post
I don't know why you're getting your feelings hurt.
Hunt the way you want and quit worrying so much about
what everyone else is legally doing.

Glad to see you reply again. I hope you don't delete your post again. I'll just quote some of it in case you decide to delete it.

Quote:

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it's about the TPWD using its resources
to FORCE these practices on all hunters.

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Not part of the discussion.

Quote:

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I really could not care less about how, why or what you hunt.

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Great. Why reply then?

Quote:

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I don't know why you're getting your feelings hurt.

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Not hurt a bit. Sounds like yours sure are though.

I have tried to hold to this philosophy. If I shoot a buck, I get the head mounted. That way, I have the pleasure of reliving the hunt again and again. Being of normal means, $400.00 spent in having the buck mounted also serves as a deterrent in shooting a buck that is questionable in regards to what I consider a trophy or not. I try to kill a buck bigger than I have in the past and if I want meat, I kill does. If I slip up and kill a smaller buck, I have a reminder of my mistake hanging on the wall and having to answer questions like, "What was your reason for shooting this one?"

Point was made about guys who pay for their bucks, and call it Trophy Hunting. Do you not feel that this happens?? I don't know of anyone who would have a problem with a guy doing as you said you do in your post, working on improving the habitat and deer herd all year long. The fly in the ointment is a fellow who couldn't and wouldn't be able to set up a blind, or scout a place, steward the land, etc. etc. I have no problem with a guy wanting to shoot big bucks and working for it, such as you describe you do. But if your going to defend the Northern Gentleman that flys into the airport and can't even spell Cotulla much less knows anything about it. Then goes out to the LODGE roughs it for a day or two, and kills a TROPHY BUCK. Feels like he is a bigger man than me, you, CHC, Redchevy, and others on here who eat, drink, and sleep hunting, THAT'S WHERE WE MAY HAVE AN ISSUE. Those types of things I have described are what is driving the price of hunting out of range for most working TEXANS, not MarkE out working hard on his place to make the deer herd better and hunting mature whitetails. You have just heard my HONEST OPINION.

Very well put got most of what I wanted to say said.

I must admit you put your thoughts together very well. Good post, my friend. I too love big bucks. I have stated several times that I have 4 over 150. Am I bragging heck yes! I have accomplished this by the age of 34. They hold a special place in my heart and my wall. The problem I have is when we "trophy hunters" attack our meat hunting brothers. I have friends and family that kill whatever they want too. It is their right and should not be infringed upon. I have killed all my deer without the aid of high fences and large acreages. 2 even came from here in NE TX. I was taught by an old woodsmen who killed deer for the meat. My Grandad knew the woods much like ole Big Orn. He passed that on to me. I don't want deer hunting to become such a business that little poor kids like me never get to hunt. I still live in rural TX and we have the chance to live in the middle of deer country. My kids and I still count deer every morning on our way to school. I fit nicely into the antler boys like MarkE and M16, but never forgot the meat hunters that taught me all about that great animal. There is room enough for all of us.

While I see and understand the basic premise of your post, I don't understand the hostility...
First, let me clarify something. I don't give a dang what anyone thinks of me, nor of what buck I shoot. "I" wear my own shoes and look at my own face in the mirror. My nephew has several bucks on his wall, all better than 130 class w/the biggest being 167+. (all free range, low fence) Doesn't make him a better, nor worse hunter than me...Hell, I'm proud of him. He hunts horns and does it quite well.
If Joe Northern wants to come down and kill a "trophy" from a "lodge" and has the money, then that is 100% fine w/me.
He's happy. The rancher, rancher's family, the guide, the guide's family are all happy - they can feed the family.Don't forget the airline fare, the stops at the local convenience store, the license fee's, etc, etc. That is money spent HERE. It doesn't matter how big-headed the guy is or is not after his hunt. PERHAPS, the guy only has limited days to hunt......makes sense to pony up the money and get the most for it..
AS SOON as my kids graduate, momma and I are headed up NORTH so that she can kill an elk.....and yes, I'm gonna pony up the money to the guy who can get me the biggest rack.
I guess that puts me on the same level as Joe Northern hunter....
Also, FTR - I personally believe in fair chase and regardless of ranch size, won't be killing ANYTHNG inside a fence. BUT, that is my choice and I'm not going to look down on someone who is.

Not sure where you got the hostility, I'm pretty laid back on most of this. I'm just trying to get some clarity on what is considered a Trophy HUNTER. My battery is running low on the laptop so I'll get back later. But before I go you said you don't give a dang about what anyone thinks of you. Is that completely true. Think about that comment for just a minute before you reply.

I got no problem with wanting to kill the buck with the biggest rack,most of us do.Its been that way since time-immemorium.Even some caveman probably bragged to his buddy he killed a bigger wooly mammoth than his buddy did! The sad reality has become the size of the buck you kill is directly proportionate to the amount of money you spend.Ya know..."the biggest deer money can buy".There is nothing impressive about some rich guy killing a 170 class buck in south Texas or Kansas or wherever...considering what he has spent he better kill a big buck! But if a Working-Class Joe kills a 170 class buck on public land or a "cheap lease"...now thats impressive!

Here is the bottom line, or at least as I see it. Most of us on here have no problem with the type of trophy hunting you talk about in your original post.

Most of us do have a problem when someone, ANYONE, gets on here and describes how many 150 and above class bucks they let walk, because they knew that there were bigger animals on the property.

You go out and bust your ass and kill a good buck, and post the pictures, and everyone on here is going to congratulate you. You post several pictures of bucks that you let walk, to finally shoot a "TROPHY" buck, when a lot of us can't even see a buck, and you are going to get a negative reaction. You start telling us that maybe we shouldn't hunt, if we can't afford a place that produces those big bucks and it gets more negative.

The problem, whether you act this way or not, is that there are too many people out there, that judge things by how much money they are able to spend, and it has nothing to do with the actual hunting experience. I have no problem with your desire to kill what you feel are quality animals. How much does it bother you, that some of us don't have your standards, but we are just as good or even better hunters than you are.

sounds to me that some of you are jelouse that another man has a bigger wallet, I guess this goes back to the same insecurities of who has a bigger D!CK. I am shure that if it fit the budget most of you would jump at the chance to hunt the Hondo Vista, King, or any other famouse monster producing ranch in Texas, The problem is most of you, just like me, probably can't truely afford it. Do you think Chuck Adams scouts every record book animal he has taken, do you think he actually dose the home work on the animals. Hell no he simply has the $$$ backing him and has people all over the world "managing" and scouting for him. And he is held in high regards as a great free range trophie hunter. What ever!! like I said it boils down to the age old Mine is bigger than yours, don't be a hater , Can't we all just get along? ............

I only have a problem, when the man with the bigger wallet, tries to pass off his purchasing of an animal as actually hunting. This don't have one thing to do with the size of anything, this has to do with people being able or willing to spend money, and then act like they are great hunters.

CHC I can get what you are saying but come on, what are you going to do if you sart running some deer hunts, Tell everyone about the good deer your hunters shot, or tell your client that he really sucks and is a yankee with a big wallet. I mean whats the Diff.

If I get to do deer hunts, first off, the only thing the rancher and I have talked about are does. Last time I checked, no one is keeping a book on them. Secondly, Lora and I have patterened our service after our friends in Colorado, and their guide/outfitting service. I don't care what any of my hunters shoot, that is why I run 4 or 5 day camps, not 2. I want them to decide on their own, about what they want to shoot. It doesn't matter to me about where they come from, their shot choice is THEIRS, not mine.

See, Lora and I ain't in the business full time trying to make a living off of it, I am trying to make just enough money at guiding, so that after working for 25 years, I can get out and enjoy life. The biggest enjoyment I get out of life is being outdoors and either hunting something myself, or guiding someone else so that they can make a kill on the animal of their choice, NOT MINE.

See unlike some folks, we get turned down, because we don't charge enough for our hunts. But you know that really don't bother me, because I would rather have people come out that want to actually hunt, than have people come out that want me to run around wiping their butts because they have money and they are important.

Mine and Lora's little business won't ever be able to compete with all the big boys in the business, but if I can make enough money to help finance some of my own hunting and fishing trips, and meet some damn nice folks, that haven't forgotten what hunting and the outdoors is all about, then I will die happy. Can you say the same?

Theres a little Trophy hunt video cartoon by the anti- hunters about drive through hunts. Its here:

http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/stop_canned_hunts/yak_in_the_box/

They use this $$$ hunts against us.

Thanks for posting that Luke. I am gonna have to look at it when I gwet home, because my confuser here at work don't gots no Audio.

On the serious side though, I have seen hunters that act the way the guy in the limo does. Too many folks out there actually don't have a real concept of what hunting is all about. They get their kicks by seeing how much money they can drop, shooting "BOOK" trophies, and they don't care which book.