Not you, but still surprising.

I wish I could put down my 100's of thoughts about some of the posts above. There is A LOT of false info there on the posts.

Since I am an FFL, I see a lot of behind the scenes that other people don't see. As an FFL, we have tons of paperwork for new firearm transfers while completing a background check. Once the original buyer wants to sell it, he can sell it to anyone he wants- criminal or non-criminal, ANYONE. Take the most recent tragedy, the San Bernandino shooting. The guy sold his AR's to his neighbor/friend, the 2 muslims, that killed the 14 people. If the original buyer was required to complete a transfer to the 2 muslims, who knows if the 2 muslims would have passed that or not. But it wouldn't have been as simple as handing over money to get the AR's. It's a borderline straw purchase. How do you not see this as a problem!!

I have asked my ATF agents why there are no regs for background checks after the initial sale. They had no answer.

I also have a problem with individuals who "sell guns" as income and do it as a business, with no FFL. They buy guns from people, and sell them for a profit. But they don't carry the FFL that's required. They don't complete any background checks on the buyers. They don't pay any taxes on their sales. How is this a bad thing?

I have spoken to several FFL's and 2 class 3 dealers now about this new EO. All but 1 said this is not such a bad deal. 2 of us were all on board with it. I think if you really look into what this is, you may understand it more. I'm not saying I agree with Obama at all. But something like these regs has been needing to happen for a while. The next question is how will they pay for it, implement it, and figure out the logistics of this.

Gotcha! I saw a post in another forum that B&S Guns from Garland was on WFAA (6:00 PM yesterday) supporting BHO executive orders. Anyone hear the interview?

The main way would be after the fact, or after something happens. For example, take the San Bernadino shooting. The neighbor/friend sold the 2 muslims his AR's. If this new ruling was in effect making it required for them to have a background check for the transfer from the neighbor/friend, then the neighbor could also be held responsible for their wrong doings.

Here in lies the problem Chad. The purchase you bring up in San Bernadino has the very laws in place. In California it is law that every gun go through a background check regardless if its private purchase or from a gun store. The guy that bought the guns did it as a straw purchase and gave them to the terrorist. I'm pretty sure he knew what they were going to do, but is now just trying to cover his own [censored]. Obviously these laws didn't stop this. Just by saying hey you have to do a background check for personal sales doesn't mean its going to happen. Only people that will comply are the law abiding citizens. Criminals will not comply and continue to get guns the same way they've been getting them for years.

So really the only guys it is hurting is if I wanted to sell a gun to my buddy or even a guy on here. I buy/sell/trade probably 3-4 guns a year, I'm forever changing my mind and going to something new. I almost never make money off guns, often times I lose money on the sale or trade to get what I really want in the end. I know getting an FFL is a big deal and a pain in the [censored] to keep, which is why I don't have one, but really don't think that more laws are the answer when the only people that are going to follow the laws are law abiding citizens. On top of it you might even create a few more criminals. Guys that don't want to have to go through the hassle of driving long distances to get to an agreed upon FFL dealer to do the background check so they just meet in the Walmart parking lot and do the deal. Maybe BHO just created a new black market.

I know the law as it sits doesn't include personal sales to a friend or family member, but its so vague at the moment it could really mean anything.

Another major thing that needs to be done is updating the database for the background checks. This has been a big issue for a long time also. The problem is the lack of funding to get the records into the database.

Watch this video for some inside info:

https://www.facebook.com/NRANews/videos/10153368465927898/?fref=nf

but as far as i can see this ruling isnt requiring every sale to have a background check as its still allowing for the occasional private sale as a hobbyist.
however just as before if you sell an item and it comes back having been used in a crime you're getting a knock on your door.

The Muslims in SB also bought two of the weapons used themselves, so yes, they passed a background check. How long until these 'checks' also include the serial number and become a de facto registry?

Please describe to me this 'ton' of paperwork. Every time I buy from a dealer, I (not the dealer) filled out the form and the dealer placed a phone call. Where is the 'ton' of paperwork?

I agree about the taxes, and if you're trading more than a couple of guns a year (for profit) then yes, you do need to have an FFL because you are in the firearms business.


My biggest issue is that this is a hassle to the little man and comes at a time when the USA has much bigger fish to fry (tax code, immigration, debt, etc.). Also, this is going to do ZERO to actually curb crime. BO is just pandering to Dems on an emotional issue to garner votes.

I'm absolutely sick of politicians.

this is one big area that i'm quite in favor of based on the announcement, more funding is being given to the fbi and batfe to conduct more background checks and to do them quicker and also mandating states report into eachother....things that should have been done already

Everything you are using to support this was illegal before. Straw purchase illegal. Selling to someone you know can not pass a background check already illegal. Dealing without a license already illegal. Most of what you are complaining about was already illegal but hasn't been enforced well. I have been waiting for someone to be nailed for dealing without a license. You can get on Facebook groups and spot them. However I will never agree with 100% backing checks on every purchase. The only way that can be enforced is with a registry.

Exactly, from what I can tell this EO doesn't change a damn thing. But it makes the libs feel good.

All these laws that BHO is touting are already on the books. Yes some guys do take advantage of the personal FTF sell. There was a guy on here a while back that built AR's and put them for sale and made money when the scare hit. He didn't have an FFL and was called out about it on several occasions. Maybe those guys will be affected by this EO, but if they leave the hobbyist alone the laws are pretty much exactly the same as what are on the books now.

Kyle, yes, you are right. But, if a required background check stops one shooting, is it worth it? I'd say yes. Is it a hassle? YES! Will it hopefully lead to a more checks and balances system on who has guns? YES! Will the criminal follow these regs? Probably not.

The first thing I would do is update the database on which the background checks look at. It is very outdated with many institutions not reporting into it for people who shouldn't have a firearm not in the database.

I agree we need to enforce the rules we currently have better. But the gun show loop hole has never made sense to me. Once I got my FFL and understood the behind the scenes, I always wondered why an individual can sell a firearm outright to anyone without the proper paperwork.

I think it would be easier if there was some kind of standard form or paperwork that 2 individuals could write up (like a bill of sale) and call in a background check themselves, independently of an FFL. This would be simple and much faster than going through an FFL. I do transfers, but I don't promote that I do them. Why, because they are a PITA to do and you have to keep the records on them.

I would think in Texas you could do it where anyone that has a CHL can sell to another individual with a CHL. There should maybe be a clause added to the CHL law that you can buy/sell/trade fire arms privately and not for business with a CHL. If you have a CHL you have already passed a more extensive background check than the NICS system anyway.

This would probably prompt a lot more people to get CHL's which is a good thing. Would also do away with the sketchy people that can't pass a background check or can't get a CHL going on the internet and meeting up with someone to buy a gun. This would ensure that everyone that buys/sells guns FTF have passed an extensive background check every 5 years.

So you sell me a gun, I sell it to a forum member, he sells it to someone else, etc. It gets used in a crime. How will that gun be traced to me since there is no registration of firearms? What good is it to trace it to me, the last person who bought it at an FFL when it may have changed hands 10 times since then and I have zero clue how it ended up with who it did? I'm assuming it would be easier to track a new firearm as the manufacturer could at least pinpoint what supplier it went to, but with an older used gun who the hell knows how many people have owned it?

Yes I completely agree with this, if they want 100% background checks on all sales fine I'll do it but give me a system that I can do it on my own with the buyer.....I also think this would then allow for tracking of people conducting a business without a license
HOWEVER it would also open the door to exposure to the batfe saying you are in business when you are simply liquidating a collection and likely requiring sales taxes

All that would do is create a tracking system that no one wants.

we already have laws and restrictions in place that dont need to be there
any person that wants a gun that can not get one legally will find one illegally
this is just another way to limit freedoms by a govt that believe they are rulers

i say throw the nfa garb out the window and bring the machine guns back to the hardware stores.

I knew there would be flack for posting my views on this topic. And I'm 100% fine with that. But the current ways of how firearms are bought and sold is a broken system. It's broken in MANY areas. There are no checks and balances for individuals buying and selling after it leaves the dealer. I have talked about this for years with other dealers, my ATF agents, and sitting around the camp fire at the deer lease. I know there needs to be a fix with it. What that fix is, I don't know. But I have some good ideas on how to make it easier and less painless for the paperwork and background checks for the typical firearms transfer/purchase.

I have sold a couple of guns to people I didn't know. I did my best to check them out and have a bill of sale. People can and have lied on a 4473.

Dealing selling for profit and income that contributes to your livelihood. I believe that is how the atf defines it. Drugs are illegal. I do not see how this comparison works since firearms are not illegal.

You're correct there is not a registry. I'm saying that the only way to enforce total background checks is through a registry. If not a registry how else would it be enforced? Again there is not one now and there is not one in the eo. Yoiu want 100% background checks how would you enforce it?

yes you are saying you agree with it that is all you have said from the beginning (I guess you would vote for your guy again). you continue to repeat yourself that you are willing to give up more and more of the publics freedoms because you might make an extra dollar. that is the only reason i have been able to find for your post.
explain to me how this will keep guns out of the hand of criminals that want a gun, if no one will sell them one they will steal one. you are all for limiting the freedoms of the lawabiding while doing nothing to stop the criminals.

you want to make a change, set a group not allowed to purchase or possess firearms (oh wait already been done) and set penalties for violations ( oh thats been done too) enforce those laws (thats what needs to be done)

Still unaceptable

Wow. A lot of colors being shown in this thread.

Murder is illegal.
People that murder are not concerned with laws.
End of story.