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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6120810
01/06/16 12:32 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499 |
I think that having background checks for gun sales/trades between individuals is moronic. - Besides being a direct infringement upon the right to keep and bear arms, you know... The right that "shall not be infringed"?
Duh.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: KRoyal]
#6120818
01/06/16 12:35 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062 |
With the removal of the requirement for the CLEO approval, will NFA trusts serve a purpose for an individual? Only thing I can think of, in my situation, is that me being the only trustee of the trust I'm the only one that will have to submit the finger prints and photos and background check. But if something were to happen to me my wife is my beneficiary so the NFA items would be then passed onto her and she could either sell them or keep them and wouldn't have to repay the $200 tax stamp for each item. Not sure what happens to NFA items if you're buying it as an individual without a trust. If you die, do they just get forfeited and go to the ATF to be destroyed? Does a family member have a chance to have them passed down, but would still have to go through the registration process and pay $200 per item? I'm not a lawyer. I believe for an individual, you can inherit the NFA items one time without any new tax stamp, but there is Form 3 paperwork. When that person dies, then the next heir would have to pay $200 for each NFA tax stamp and do the Form 3 paperwork.
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
� Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Judd]
#6120826
01/06/16 12:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,898
The Dude Abides
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,898 |
Step 2 is a nationwide gun registry....pay attention...it's coming. I will say as I read the reg this would not effect private sellers selling to each other...only guys who are "dealers" selling used guns. Now, define "dealers"...that is the grey area here. TXG308 - I don't read the reg to effect two THF'ers selling a gun to have to go to an FFL to do the deal. Just if you sell a used gun (stupid, stupid, stupid...but that is how I read it). Or I'm miss-interpreting the reg (which wouldn't be a first, I'm a software guy not a lawyer ) I have only perused the new regs but will read in more detail when time permits. On the surface...if one private party (not an FFL) sells to another private party (not an FFL) and a back ground check is required then going through an FFL accomplishes this.
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: J.G.]
#6120830
01/06/16 12:44 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,806
Deerhunter61
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,806 |
Hows this gonna effect the THF classifieds? It's not...buyer and seller will have to go through an FFL to complete the transfer and BG check. That is an effect. No more parkinglot purchases. No more mailing a rifle from one man to another within the state. Yet criminals will continue to get their hands on what ever they want. Short barreled shotgun, all you need is a saw. SBR, all you need is a lathe. Full auto rifles, just basic tools. Suppressors can be made from household items. This EO will do zero to curb crime, yet make life more of a PITA for law abiding citizens, same as most other gun laws. ^^^^^ THIS! And it's another way to tax us and another way to raise the price... I.e. Having to pay a FFL. Ugh! This won't stop criminals from getting guns!
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6120836
01/06/16 12:47 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,961
Simple Searcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,961 |
So if I want to go sell a gun to my neighbor tonight, can I do it? Or does he have to have a background check done at an FFL? When does this new rule go into affect? Immediately?
"Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6120852
01/06/16 12:53 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,644
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,644 |
Based on what I have heard the president has just created a new class of criminals with his pen. Congress did not pass a new law so it remains to be seen if a Grandfather goes down to cabelas and picks up a 10/22 for the 8 year old grandson for his birthday will he go to prison. Sounds like if it's truly enforced it will be in the courts pretty quick. I bet like all other Obama drama it's another all talk no follow up or action just a way to say look at me.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Toxarch]
#6120857
01/06/16 12:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
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Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281 |
With the removal of the requirement for the CLEO approval, will NFA trusts serve a purpose for an individual? Only thing I can think of, in my situation, is that me being the only trustee of the trust I'm the only one that will have to submit the finger prints and photos and background check. But if something were to happen to me my wife is my beneficiary so the NFA items would be then passed onto her and she could either sell them or keep them and wouldn't have to repay the $200 tax stamp for each item. Not sure what happens to NFA items if you're buying it as an individual without a trust. If you die, do they just get forfeited and go to the ATF to be destroyed? Does a family member have a chance to have them passed down, but would still have to go through the registration process and pay $200 per item? I'm not a lawyer. I believe for an individual, you can inherit the NFA items one time without any new tax stamp, but there is Form 3 paperwork. When that person dies, then the next heir would have to pay $200 for each NFA tax stamp and do the Form 3 paperwork. Thanks wondered about that.
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6120868
01/06/16 01:04 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,954
huntwest
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,954 |
Today the ATF posted this to clarify who did or did not need an FFL. https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/downloadWhile I don't agree with anything that Obama does by fiat I think everyone needs to read and know that Individuals that sell a gun now and then are not subject to this. Of course as all ATF guidelines these are all subject to different interpretations depending on the ATF agent you are dealing with. Hope if you ever deal with one you get one with common sense.
Last edited by huntwest; 01/06/16 01:06 AM.
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: syncerus]
#6120870
01/06/16 01:05 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 34,220
Buzzsaw
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 34,220 |
The real issue here is the malicious intent of these laws. In spite of the Democratic rhetoric, the long term intent of the party is very clear: virtually total firearm confiscation. The party, as defined by the urban masses, hates hunting as a sport and views firearms as weapons, not as sporting goods. These new laws were created out of their sense of frustration with Congress and are intended as active legal instruments of harassment, since it's clear they will have **no** effect on crime. They are designed to harass ordinary gun owners.
Consider 41p. How many legally registered Class 3 items are used in crimes? Virtually none. Tightening up the requirements of Class 3 ownership can have **no** effect on major crime statistics. It is intended to harass Class 3 owners, virtually all of whom comprise a group of the most law abiding citizens in America. If your sole intent was to protect the American public, why on Earth would you tighten regulation where it was demonstrably unneeded and could have no effect?
Make no mistake, the intent of these laws is to harass and ultimately destroy. They are a demonstration of malicious intent by an administration that's politically impotent and wants to lash out at its adversaries. Ya'll better read this plus Judds comments and heed too and trice up. It's happened in England and Australia, Whatcha gonna do when they come for YOU????? As much as I bag on the NRA for calling me EVERYDAY wanting more money, they are about all we got fighting this crap and despite the MEGA salaries all their executives pay themselves, "we" need the help fighting off these Democrat's . If you are not a member, shame on you...
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6120920
01/06/16 01:22 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,954
huntwest
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,954 |
Two friends doing a random gun deal does not have to go through an FFL. I'm not taking up for this deal but people going overboard is ridiculous. Dont make this carp worse than it already is.
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6120925
01/06/16 01:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,644
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,644 |
I am looking at the bright side. What I lost yesterday in my 401K I made up after obama's announcement on the increase in value of my AR's
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6120970
01/06/16 01:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,528
RiverRider
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,528 |
NFA 34 and GCA 68 are both unConstitutional bull**** and need to be abolished. Reinstate the full Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Fear no man's Liberty if you want it for yourself. Treat criminals harshly---as should have been done along, and no one would be going down the "common sense" rabbit hole of "just a little" violation of Constitutional principle.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6120984
01/06/16 01:51 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,564
JCB
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,564 |
This aint about background checks. Anyone that believes that is delusional.
This is about being able to track just about ALL gun sales for later use.
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6121010
01/06/16 02:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,735
BobG
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,735 |
Maybe this has already been addressed, but on the BG checks for private sales, what happens if you have a CHL and you want to buy privately? Will you still need a BG check?
Gravley Custom Woodwork: Household Furniture, Custom Cabinetry and much more!
Hunters, Fisherman and other liars gather here.
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6121104
01/06/16 02:53 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,440
TFF Caribou
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,440 |
As has been stated several times. Private sales will still not require a background check. Guys just can't be "gun dealers" anymore without doing background checks. Guys who use gun sales as a form of income on a regular basis.
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: TFF Caribou]
#6121111
01/06/16 02:56 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
OP
Extreme Tracker
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OP
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809 |
As has been stated several times. Private sales will still not require a background check. Guys just can't be "gun dealers" anymore without doing background checks. Guys who use gun sales as a form of income on a regular basis. Cbs mentioned that some courts have said selling one nib gun could be construed as in the business... It all depends on definition of in the business. Supposedly the atf will release guidance
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6121276
01/06/16 04:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,318
Kae006
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,318 |
What do you guys think will happen to people who are already in the process of buying class 3 items? I have paid for and submitted a form 3 on 3 suppressors that I am awaiting approval on.
And SHOCKING to see an FFL on this thread happy about a new order that he believes will bring him more FFL X-fer business yet claims he his pro 2nd amendment. Laughable.
Last edited by Kae006; 01/06/16 04:33 AM.
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Kae006]
#6121291
01/06/16 04:54 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053 |
And SHOCKING to see an FFL on this thread happy about a new order that he believes will bring him more FFL X-fer business yet claims he his pro 2nd amendment. Laughable. I never expected that from him.
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6121300
01/06/16 05:14 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952 |
This, and ANY other law, will NOT stop criminals from doing what they do. It's all smoke and mirrors and a waste of more of our damn money. Pathetic POS Osama Bin Obama.
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten! 10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6121334
01/06/16 08:46 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,954
huntwest
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,954 |
As has been stated several times. Private sales will still not require a background check. Guys just can't be "gun dealers" anymore without doing background checks. Guys who use gun sales as a form of income on a regular basis. Cbs mentioned that some courts have said selling one nib gun could be construed as in the business... It all depends on definition of in the business. Supposedly the atf will release guidance The ATF guidance is posted in this thread already. Look up.
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Kae006]
#6121370
01/06/16 12:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,440
TFF Caribou
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,440 |
What do you guys think will happen to people who are already in the process of buying class 3 items? I have paid for and submitted a form 3 on 3 suppressors that I am awaiting approval on.
And SHOCKING to see an FFL on this thread happy about a new order that he believes will bring him more FFL X-fer business yet claims he his pro 2nd amendment. Laughable. Won't take effect for 180 days. So you should be good.
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Kae006]
#6121457
01/06/16 01:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,898
The Dude Abides
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,898 |
What do you guys think will happen to people who are already in the process of buying class 3 items? I have paid for and submitted a form 3 on 3 suppressors that I am awaiting approval on.
And SHOCKING to see an FFL on this thread happy about a new order that he believes will bring him more FFL X-fer business yet claims he his pro 2nd amendment. Laughable. Whom are you referring to? Certainly not me; I never said or implied anything of the sort. I only stated IF a background check is required then going through an FFL would accomplish this.
Last edited by TXGUNNER308; 01/06/16 01:45 PM.
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: Cleric]
#6121459
01/06/16 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 472
rentzington
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 472 |
I've read through the ATF material and read several articles and while this is all intentionally left vague regarding private party sales and background checks the rule seems to basically be the same as before but they will be cracking down on people who they find frequently sell items without a license. ATF has clearly said now that those who make the occasional sale do not need a license BUT the AG has also stated they COULD come after you because of as little as 1-2 sales if other circumstances are present.
I take this to mean a person like myself or may buy/sell every so often via private sale is ok, but the people who are constantly selling privately might be at risk for further scrutiny. Would have been nice if they simply said if you sell X per month you need a license.
Ultimately we will end up with universal background checks which i can't say i necessarily disagree with if they come up with an easy system for private parties to use.
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: huntwest]
#6121496
01/06/16 02:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
OP
Extreme Tracker
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OP
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809 |
As has been stated several times. Private sales will still not require a background check. Guys just can't be "gun dealers" anymore without doing background checks. Guys who use gun sales as a form of income on a regular basis. Cbs mentioned that some courts have said selling one nib gun could be construed as in the business... It all depends on definition of in the business. Supposedly the atf will release guidance The ATF guidance is posted in this thread already. Look up. Actually they haven't. They have even said they are going to produce guidance to help clarify. As I said earlier you could be considered in the business even with 1-2 private sales
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Re: 41p is official
[Re: The Dude Abides]
#6121580
01/06/16 03:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053 |
What do you guys think will happen to people who are already in the process of buying class 3 items? I have paid for and submitted a form 3 on 3 suppressors that I am awaiting approval on.
And SHOCKING to see an FFL on this thread happy about a new order that he believes will bring him more FFL X-fer business yet claims he his pro 2nd amendment. Laughable. Whom are you referring to? Certainly not me; I never said or implied anything of the sort. I only stated IF a background check is required then going through an FFL would accomplish this. He's not referring to you. He's talking about this. People, he's not "taking away" your guns. I haven't fully read exactly what the new "rules" will be exactly. But the summary of what I have read is ALL individuals will need to have a background check when buying a gun, known as the "gun show loop hole". Once the original person buys a firearm from a dealer (with a background check) and later wants to sell that firearm, the original buyer can sell it to whomever they want. The new buyer does not go through a background check. This new rule will require the new buyer to have a background check. I have never understood why (me as an 01 FFL dealer) must go through all this paperwork to be licensed and the purchaser have to get the background check, when once the firearm leaves the dealer, the firearm can go anywhere or sold to anyone, without a background check. Honestly, I'm for this. Think about that for a second. It's common sense. I may get flack for saying that, but it only makes sense for ANYONE buying a firearm to have the proper background check as the original buyer did. If you can not pass a common background check, or have been declared mentally unstable, then you probably should not have a gun. I'm a hard core Republican, and huge pro 2nd amendment, but there does need to be some common sense to ALL firearms transactions.
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