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Maybe we should rethink predator killing
#605773
02/18/09 04:52 PM
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chestnut
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I see the eastern half of the state being over-run with hogs, and I wonder if we should be killing so many bobcats and coyotes. Don't these animals kill small hogs? As hog numbers soar past deer numbers, it seems to me that these predators will be taking down lots more baby hogs than baby deer.
What do you think?
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: chestnut]
#605774
02/18/09 05:04 PM
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cbump
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I think probably not enough to matter.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: cbump]
#605775
02/18/09 05:20 PM
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chestnut
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It's the nature of predators to expand their numbers as prey animals increase.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: chestnut]
#605776
02/18/09 06:00 PM
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cbump
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I don't know much on the subject but I just don't see bobcats and coyotes killing enough baby hogs to warrant stopping predator hunting.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: cbump]
#605777
02/18/09 06:14 PM
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BigRon
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And maybe we should stop killing Bambi so the deer population will be larger than the hog population. Instead of hunting at all, we could hold hands, drink Obama kool-aid, and sing Kumbaya. Amazing how fast some guys want to throw other people's hunting under the bus. I think the Ben Franklin quote applies here, "We must all hang together or surely we will all hang seperately."
Last edited by Big_Orn; 02/18/09 10:54 PM.
God is so good to me.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: cbump]
#605778
02/18/09 06:21 PM
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rstewlandman
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Quote:
I don't know much on the sunject but I just don't see bobcats and coyotes killing enough baby hogs to warrant stopping predator hunting.
Dito- a pig has 2 litters a year and 6-8 and up piglets that are ready to breed in what....6 months or so....you do the math, now if your worried about the overpopulaton of birds or squirrels or rabbits then maybe your right....
the man at the top of the mountain didn't fall up it
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: BigRon]
#605779
02/18/09 06:24 PM
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chestnut
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I'll put that down as a "no".
I'm not looking at influencing what the TPWD does, I am suggesting that maybe those of us who are concerned about hogs over-populating should think about cutting back on the predator killing, voluntarily. I know I'm not going to kill any and will concentrate on the hogs.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: chestnut]
#605780
02/18/09 06:56 PM
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AdgerC15
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Quote:
I see the eastern half of the state being over-run with hogs, and I wonder if we should be killing so many bobcats and coyotes. Don't these animals kill small hogs? As hog numbers soar past deer numbers, it seems to me that these predators will be taking down lots more baby hogs than baby deer.
What do you think?
one day when you see a coyote or kitty try and box up with a decent size boar you will rethink this question.. A coyote/cat will never attack head on with a hog, AND FOR GOOD REASON.
Even when approaching from the rear they are very careful and methodical in attack and in few times ive seen, they back out and scram. A hog is a worthy opponent matched up with anything from coyote-mountain lion.
KEEP PREDATOR HUNTING, which in my opinion INCLUDES hogs!!!
ac
Conservation means development as much as it does protection. - Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: AdgerC15]
#605781
02/18/09 07:05 PM
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rifleman
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I will continue predator hunting..I did see a coyote eating a 200lb boar over the weekend, but the hog had already been shot and the same went for the coyote after I was able to make it back in the house to get a rifle. I consider myself to be at the top of the food chain and it doesn't seem so when I spook a bunch of pigs while walking in tall grass and their mama is around. My guess would be a fawn that is trained to lay still while mama runs off to lure away predators is not near the match a young pig would be.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: rifleman]
#605782
02/18/09 07:12 PM
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chestnut
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rifleman, that is a weakness that deer have, alright, that hogs don't.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: chestnut]
#605783
02/18/09 07:27 PM
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MaggieMTx
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When pigs have a litter every 3 mths, 3 weeks, 3 days & could have up to a dozen....I dont think there would be enough "predators" in the world to make a dent in them. The ONLY time I have seen a yote munching on a pig was AFTER it was hit or shot. Not that there needs to be more predators, more people need to shoot pigs.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: chestnut]
#605784
02/18/09 07:29 PM
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Dave Davidson
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I consider coyotes and bob cats the only natural predator of hogs. Nope, they won't tackle a big one and I doubt that they are all that effective at controlling the hog population.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: BigRon]
#605785
02/18/09 07:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366
Curly
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Quote:
And maybe we should stop killing Bambi so the deer population will be larger than the hog population. Instead of hunting at all, we could hold hands, drink Obama kool-aid, and sing Kumbaya. Amazing how fast some guys want to throw other people's hunting under the bus. I think the Ben Franklin quote applies here, "We must all hang together or surely we will all hang seperately." The state of Texas probably has enough wildlife biologists on staff, but if they need help, I am sure they will call you.
Calm down there turbo. He was just asking opinions. He wasn't saying to quit doing it. He just had an idea that he thought might help cut down on the hog situation.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#605786
02/18/09 07:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,299
BenBob
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I do not think that bobcats or coyotes take too many pigs, so I do not think leaving these predators alone will trim any numbers in regard to pigs. But doesn't there have to be some reason for the pigs population explosion rather than it just being their prolific numbers in a litter and the fact that they are mature enough to breed at less than a year of age? How many piglets does a javelina have and why aren't there as many javelina running around as there are feral hogs?
Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: Curly]
#605787
02/18/09 08:04 PM
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BigRon
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Yea, I got to switch to de-caf in the morning. But, keep predator hunting. Yotes are as over populated as hogs in our area. Seen more road killed predators in the last two years than I ever remember seeing back in the day. The guard dogs in our truck lot at work killed a yote right after Christmas right here in North Fort Worth. He evidently got under the fence and could not find the exit before the dogs cornered him.
God is so good to me.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: BigRon]
#605788
02/18/09 08:42 PM
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MaggieMTx
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The more predators you have, it becomes a problem...they have disease, mange, eat lil suburban pets, attack kids, etc...just shoot more hogs
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: MaggieMTx]
#605789
02/18/09 08:48 PM
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chestnut
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I think (throwing this out for contradiction) that the use of FEEDERS is what has caused the hog expansion.
As for attacking little kids, I think, sure, wolves and cougars are guility of that, but I doubt bobcats and coyotes have done much in that regard.
I think a pack of coyotes could probably attack a bunch of baby hogs in such as way as to distract the mother while they got one or more. Bobcats wouldn't be so efficient at the hog taking, I would imagine.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: chestnut]
#605790
02/18/09 09:08 PM
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Posts: 13,451
Seadog
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I think not hunting coyotes and bobcats would be more detrimental to the deer population than the hog population.
I support Cap and Trade - Cap our spending and Trade Obama
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the Government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: chestnut]
#605791
02/18/09 09:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,287
BradyBuck
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Quote:
I think (throwing this out for contradiction) that the use of FEEDERS is what has caused the hog expansion.
As for attacking little kids, I think, sure, wolves and cougars are guility of that, but I doubt bobcats and coyotes have done much in that regard.
I think a pack of coyotes could probably attack a bunch of baby hogs in such as way as to distract the mother while they got one or more. Bobcats wouldn't be so efficient at the hog taking, I would imagine.
There are many examples of coyote attacks on kids due to over population. Coyotes and bobcats are thriving. What most people don't know is coyotes and bobcats eat more rodents then anything else. They eat rabbits, quail and deer also but I would bet you that rodents make up a larger percentage of their diet.
HRCH Washita's Kimber Locked N Loaded GRHRCH Firefly's Rally The Troops MH
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: Seadog]
#605792
02/18/09 10:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,550
kyotee1
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Quote:
I think not hunting coyotes and bobcats would be more detrimental to the deer population than the hog population.
Exactly true and hit the nail on the head.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: BradyBuck]
#605793
02/18/09 10:18 PM
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kyotee1
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Quote:
Quote:
I think (throwing this out for contradiction) that the use of FEEDERS is what has caused the hog expansion.
As for attacking little kids, I think, sure, wolves and cougars are guility of that, but I doubt bobcats and coyotes have done much in that regard.
I think a pack of coyotes could probably attack a bunch of baby hogs in such as way as to distract the mother while they got one or more. Bobcats wouldn't be so efficient at the hog taking, I would imagine.
There are many examples of coyote attacks on kids due to over population. Coyotes and bobcats are thriving. What most people don't know is coyotes and bobcats eat more rodents then anything else. They eat rabbits, quail and deer also but I would bet you that rodents make up a larger percentage of their diet.
There is only 1 documented case on an individual by a coyote and that was back in 04 where other states, have much higher attack rates, especially California since they have outlawed trapping.
Rodents and small game do make up the major portion of a coyote and bobcats diet and they will feed upon carrion when available as well. Their attempts to capture or prey upon feral hog piglets are like a lion feeding on a baby elephant...not even close to happening!
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: kyotee1]
#605794
02/18/09 10:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,541
BOBO the Clown
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What about the kid in Frisco that was on the news that got bite while riding a skate board...They had video of it : )
The problem with hogs is the enviormental impact.... It the fields and crop damage... We forget that man has been breeding them for century to grow quick and reproduce at a phenomenal rate... not to mention they will eat anything,,, if one prime food source is eaten to depletion, they adapt to another type...
The problem ultimantely is the numbers, higher the number the more impact on the rangeland, more impact on the rangeland the more impact on other animals.
Forgot also the disease factor on other domistic animals...
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: chestnut]
#605795
02/18/09 10:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 722
kdmason
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Quote:
It's the nature of predators to expand their numbers as prey animals increase.
This is true. Coyotes will have as many pups as the local area food supply can handle. It's Mother-Natures way of a checks and balances kinda thing. As far as not seeing as many bobcats, well they are more elusive. Yea, maybe their populations are not as great as a coyote but I know of three that were killed in 3 days out of the same blind.
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: kyotee1]
#605796
02/18/09 10:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,287
BradyBuck
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think (throwing this out for contradiction) that the use of FEEDERS is what has caused the hog expansion.
As for attacking little kids, I think, sure, wolves and cougars are guility of that, but I doubt bobcats and coyotes have done much in that regard.
I think a pack of coyotes could probably attack a bunch of baby hogs in such as way as to distract the mother while they got one or more. Bobcats wouldn't be so efficient at the hog taking, I would imagine.
There are many examples of coyote attacks on kids due to over population. Coyotes and bobcats are thriving. What most people don't know is coyotes and bobcats eat more rodents then anything else. They eat rabbits, quail and deer also but I would bet you that rodents make up a larger percentage of their diet.
There is only 1 documented case on an individual by a coyote and that was back in 04 where other states, have much higher attack rates, especially California since they have outlawed trapping.
Rodents and small game do make up the major portion of a coyote and bobcats diet and they will feed upon carrion when available as well. Their attempts to capture or prey upon feral hog piglets are like a lion feeding on a baby elephant...not even close to happening!
Yes the majority of the cases I have heard of were from Cali.
Lions will take down an elephant. It was captured on film in the Planet Earth videos. It is amazing to see them take down not only an elephant but a decent sized one.
Last edited by BradyBuck60; 02/18/09 11:20 PM.
HRCH Washita's Kimber Locked N Loaded GRHRCH Firefly's Rally The Troops MH
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Re: Maybe we should rethink predator killing
[Re: BradyBuck]
#605797
02/18/09 11:44 PM
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chestnut
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What about possums, raccoons, squirrels, rabbits, and skunks. Do coyotes regularly eat those?
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