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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5640678
03/08/15 07:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,179
flintknapper
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,179 |
Got my rifle sighted in today and spent a little time on a Hog Stand this evening. Was wanting to 'snipe' a few Raccoon's that have been raiding my feeder. Can't live trap them anymore (they are wise to that). They have learned to jump up onto the feeder legs to avoid the 'leg hold' traps I have set, so 'sniping' them (until they get the message) is about all I can do.
Anyway, got to semi-evaluate the Vortex (Viper PST 2.5 x 10 x 44mm illuminated).
This afternoon while sighting it in...I was able to take a good look at the glass. As previously stated...it is just 'OK'. Certainly serviceable, but nothing to write home to Mom about. This evening I had several hours to spend looking through it from dusk until way after dark (under LED lights).
Here are what I think the strong points are:
1. Feels well built, rugged construction 2. All of the adjustments (Elevation, Windage, Magnification Ring, Rheostat, Eye Piece Focus) are very positive. You can feel the quality there. 3. The etched glass reticle is very nicely done, very precise and crisp looking. 4. The reticle remains sharp at every setting of the rheostat (illuminated).
Some things that could be better:
1. The glass is just 'so-so'. For the life of me...I cannot understand all the 'hoopla' you read about in reviews, except those folks must not have looked through optics with truly 'good' glass before. 2. The eye relief is OK, but the scope seems very sensitive to eye placement/cheek weld... or you will quickly experience shadowing around the edges. This is particularly true at night when there is less light.
I don't want to be overly critical of the Sight...since at this price point ($600.00 range) it's an 'alright' optic...but IMO no particular bargain. If it were a $400.00 Scope...yes, it would be offering a lot for the money.
I am left thinking that because of the VIP warranty Vortex offers, they are basically including the price (their cost) of a replacement scope...in the retail price, instead of offering a limited warranty and putting that money into the Optic. Good marketing strategy...(most folks will never break one), but they could offer an even better scope..if they wanted to.
One feature I would like to see on their illuminated models would be a choice between Red and Green Reticles. This evening under the Red hog lights, the red reticle had a tendency to 'wash out' my target, even on the lowest setting. Green would have showed up nicely. I have a scope with the ability to choose either color and it has proven a useful feature.
I will probably keep this scope...but it doesn't really thrill me.
Would like to hear from others about their Vortex products. I know there are MANY satisfied users out there. The more we contribute here...the easier it will be for someone else to make a choice.
Thanks,
Flint.
Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: flintknapper]
#5640860
03/08/15 02:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,208
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,208 |
Very nice review Thank you for sharing.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: dmov]
#5640882
03/08/15 02:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,741
603Country
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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I'm with flint knapper on the illuminated reticle. Even at the lowest level it's still too bright to suit me.
As for the scope and value, I have the PST 4-16 FFP. If all the specs, including weight, are considered, what other company offers this much quality for a lower price than this?
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: flintknapper]
#5640921
03/08/15 03:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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Got my rifle sighted in today and spent a little time on a Hog Stand this evening. Was wanting to 'snipe' a few Raccoon's that have been raiding my feeder. Can't live trap them anymore (they are wise to that). They have learned to jump up onto the feeder legs to avoid the 'leg hold' traps I have set, so 'sniping' them (until they get the message) is about all I can do.
Anyway, got to semi-evaluate the Vortex (Viper PST 2.5 x 10 x 44mm illuminated).
This afternoon while sighting it in...I was able to take a good look at the glass. As previously stated...it is just 'OK'. Certainly serviceable, but nothing to write home to Mom about. This evening I had several hours to spend looking through it from dusk until way after dark (under LED lights).
Here are what I think the strong points are:
1. Feels well built, rugged construction 2. All of the adjustments (Elevation, Windage, Magnification Ring, Rheostat, Eye Piece Focus) are very positive. You can feel the quality there. 3. The etched glass reticle is very nicely done, very precise and crisp looking. 4. The reticle remains sharp at every setting of the rheostat (illuminated).
Some things that could be better:
1. The glass is just 'so-so'. For the life of me...I cannot understand all the 'hoopla' you read about in reviews, except those folks must not have looked through optics with truly 'good' glass before. 2. The eye relief is OK, but the scope seems very sensitive to eye placement/cheek weld... or you will quickly experience shadowing around the edges. This is particularly true at night when there is less light.
I don't want to be overly critical of the Sight...since at this price point ($600.00 range) it's an 'alright' optic...but IMO no particular bargain. If it were a $400.00 Scope...yes, it would be offering a lot for the money.
I am left thinking that because of the VIP warranty Vortex offers, they are basically including the price (their cost) of a replacement scope...in the retail price, instead of offering a limited warranty and putting that money into the Optic. Good marketing strategy...(most folks will never break one), but they could offer an even better scope..if they wanted to.
One feature I would like to see on their illuminated models would be a choice between Red and Green Reticles. This evening under the Red hog lights, the red reticle had a tendency to 'wash out' my target, even on the lowest setting. Green would have showed up nicely. I have a scope with the ability to choose either color and it has proven a useful feature.
I will probably keep this scope...but it doesn't really thrill me.
Would like to hear from others about their Vortex products. I know there are MANY satisfied users out there. The more we contribute here...the easier it will be for someone else to make a choice.
Thanks,
Flint. Thank you for that review. Though rarely as detailed, I have read/heard many similar assessments. Because optical quality (low-light performance and minimizing eye fatigue) is so important for my uses, I have never bought a Vortex product.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: Treinta-Treinta]
#5641069
03/08/15 04:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 234
bobsumner
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 234 |
I've actually found the more money you have, the more you care about resale.
Its still perplexing to me, just like the guy who frets over purchases and spends $5 to save a nickel.
) I disagree when it comes to guns. I could not care about the resale when I choose to buy a firearm or related accessory, this is probably because I have only sold 2 guns in my life, I am gun buyer. If you were really being intellectually honest with yourself you would be doing a ROIC or similar metrics around part worth utility on every purchase. Resale? Meh...
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: bobsumner]
#5641137
03/08/15 05:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,567
patriot07
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,567 |
I've actually found the more money you have, the more you care about resale.
Its still perplexing to me, just like the guy who frets over purchases and spends $5 to save a nickel.
) I disagree when it comes to guns. I could not care about the resale when I choose to buy a firearm or related accessory, this is probably because I have only sold 2 guns in my life, I am gun buyer. If you were really being intellectually honest with yourself you would be doing a ROIC or similar metrics around part worth utility on every purchase. Resale? Meh... My thinking is if my wife and I ever lost our jobs, it would be a lot easier to sell my guns for a high percentage of what I have in them compared to other hobbies. I'm a gun buyer too, but I have no idea when I might have to become a seller.
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: 603Country]
#5641141
03/08/15 05:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,567
patriot07
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,567 |
I'm with flint knapper on the illuminated reticle. Even at the lowest level it's still too bright to suit me.
As for the scope and value, I have the PST 4-16 FFP. If all the specs, including weight, are considered, what other company offers this much quality for a lower price than this? Compared to the SWFA SS 3-15x42 FFP, you're paying an extra $200 for an illuminated reticle that you don't even like. The SWFA is only an ounce and a half heavier. edit: also, the Vortex has a 50mm objective compared to the 42mm on the SWFA. But to me, if you don't want/need the illuminated reticle, then the SWFA is the best value in that category. I wish Vortex made an FFP HS-T model, since those have no illuminated reticle and no exposed windage turret (I think). But I don't think many folks are looking for that exact set of features.
Last edited by patriot07; 03/08/15 05:42 PM.
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: dmov]
#5641461
03/08/15 09:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,741
603Country
THF Celebrity
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Well, I didn't know that the illuminated reticle was too bright when I bought the scope, and I didn't decide that it was too bright till I had the scope for most of a year. If I could just dial it down one more notch, that might be perfect. Maybe the battery will get weak and that'll fix the problem.
Sooner or later, when Leupold has just exactly what I want, I'll probably spend money with them. As for illuminated reticles, I think all I really want would be that TMR reticle with an illuminated dot in the middle. I can't see that I have a use for a full illuminated mil reticle if I'm shooting in light so dim that I need an illuminated reticle in the first place. Maybe a military sniper or LE marksman would want that, but not me. Only short range shots will be made in very dim light - at pigs and coyotes.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: 603Country]
#5641527
03/08/15 10:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,179
flintknapper
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,179 |
The reticle would not present a problem for me if I could turn it down just a bit more. Also, on larger game (hogs, coyotes, etc) it would not matter. But in this case...I have it on a .17 HMR for the purpose of 'sniping' some raccoons at a distance of about 100 yds. The reticle being in the second focal plane..is a good thing, since it doesn't 'grow' along with the magnification, but the subtensions (hash marks) are close enough together that it has the effect of 'washing out' your target. What is actually taking place..is that your eye is 'competing' for the focal attention. I knew it might be a problem...before purchasing the Optic. It does not render the Scope 'unusable' for me, it is somewhat a hindrance when very 'fine' shot placement is required in low light conditions. I have a scope (with excellent glass) that has a German # 4 reticle, that is pretty much ideal for what I do. The pic below is at 4 power (through a scant 24mm objective) looking at a distance of about 90 yards. It is much superior to the Vortex. I will take some photos of the Vortex, next time I am out. Again, the Vortex is 'Serviceable', but there is certainly room for improvement. I hope this does not come across as a wholly disparaging report of it. Flint.
Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: dmov]
#5642160
03/09/15 03:14 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,139
Brother in-law
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2007
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: dmov]
#5642538
03/09/15 02:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,228
wp75169
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,228 |
Looks a whole lot like a VX-R
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: dmov]
#5642603
03/09/15 02:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,308
Precision_Shooter
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,308 |
Looks like a VXR to me. Same one I have if so, 1.25-4x. It's a great little optic and great glass!
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: 603Country]
#5642608
03/09/15 02:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
I'm with flint knapper on the illuminated reticle. Even at the lowest level it's still too bright to suit me.
As for the scope and value, I have the PST 4-16 FFP. If all the specs, including weight, are considered, what other company offers this much quality for a lower price than this? For the life of me, I've never gotten the need for IR & I do a lot of low light, out of the reach of qbeam hog shooting.
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: rifleman]
#5643767
03/10/15 12:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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Posts: 27,091 |
I'm with flint knapper on the illuminated reticle. Even at the lowest level it's still too bright to suit me.
As for the scope and value, I have the PST 4-16 FFP. If all the specs, including weight, are considered, what other company offers this much quality for a lower price than this? For the life of me, I've never gotten the need for IR & I do a lot of low light, out of the reach of qbeam hog shooting. Newest fad. More than useless for most hunting. Irony is most of them are at the peak of their uselessness in low-light situations.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5643886
03/10/15 01:24 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,228
wp75169
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,228 |
I'm with flint knapper on the illuminated reticle. Even at the lowest level it's still too bright to suit me.
As for the scope and value, I have the PST 4-16 FFP. If all the specs, including weight, are considered, what other company offers this much quality for a lower price than this? For the life of me, I've never gotten the need for IR & I do a lot of low light, out of the reach of qbeam hog shooting. Newest fad. More than useless for most hunting. Irony is most of them are at the peak of their uselessness in low-light situations. The VXR turns down very low and is a tiny dot. It is great for nighttime pig hunting. I have found no other time when I turn it on. My wife uses hers in full daylight. She feels it helps her. I know she don't miss.
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: wp75169]
#5643927
03/10/15 01:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
I'm with flint knapper on the illuminated reticle. Even at the lowest level it's still too bright to suit me.
As for the scope and value, I have the PST 4-16 FFP. If all the specs, including weight, are considered, what other company offers this much quality for a lower price than this? For the life of me, I've never gotten the need for IR & I do a lot of low light, out of the reach of qbeam hog shooting. Newest fad. More than useless for most hunting. Irony is most of them are at the peak of their uselessness in low-light situations. The VXR turns down very low and is a tiny dot. It is great for nighttime pig hunting. I have found no other time when I turn it on. My wife uses hers in full daylight. She feels it helps her. I know she don't miss. That's why I qualified it. The one or two I have looked through lit up like a Christmas tree. I depend on lighting up the hog enough so any scope will work. I don't have a dedicated hog gun-whatever gun I have handy is my hog gun.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: dmov]
#5644345
03/10/15 05:50 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
I have one on one of my 300s, never feel the urge to turn it on or had a situation that required it.
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: dmov]
#5646723
03/11/15 06:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 394
alexrex20
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 394 |
I currently own both Leupold VX3 and Viper HS and the Leupold has better glass. Is it $200 better? Maybe not, but I like the CDS dials on the Leupold. Btw, the said VX3 is 3.5-10x40 and the Viper HS is 4-16x44.
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: flintknapper]
#5646727
03/11/15 06:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 394
alexrex20
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 394 |
The reticle would not present a problem for me if I could turn it down just a bit more. Also, on larger game (hogs, coyotes, etc) it would not matter. But in this case...I have it on a .17 HMR for the purpose of 'sniping' some raccoons at a distance of about 100 yds. The reticle being in the second focal plane..is a good thing, since it doesn't 'grow' along with the magnification, but the subtensions (hash marks) are close enough together that it has the effect of 'washing out' your target. What is actually taking place..is that your eye is 'competing' for the focal attention. I knew it might be a problem...before purchasing the Optic. It does not render the Scope 'unusable' for me, it is somewhat a hindrance when very 'fine' shot placement is required in low light conditions. I have a scope (with excellent glass) that has a German # 4 reticle, that is pretty much ideal for what I do. The pic below is at 4 power (through a scant 24mm objective) looking at a distance of about 90 yards. It is much superior to the Vortex. I will take some photos of the Vortex, next time I am out. Again, the Vortex is 'Serviceable', but there is certainly room for improvement. I hope this does not come across as a wholly disparaging report of it. Flint. Am I missing something? What's the point of editing the colors in the pic?
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: alexrex20]
#5647014
03/11/15 10:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,308
Precision_Shooter
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,308 |
The reticle would not present a problem for me if I could turn it down just a bit more. Also, on larger game (hogs, coyotes, etc) it would not matter. But in this case...I have it on a .17 HMR for the purpose of 'sniping' some raccoons at a distance of about 100 yds. The reticle being in the second focal plane..is a good thing, since it doesn't 'grow' along with the magnification, but the subtensions (hash marks) are close enough together that it has the effect of 'washing out' your target. What is actually taking place..is that your eye is 'competing' for the focal attention. I knew it might be a problem...before purchasing the Optic. It does not render the Scope 'unusable' for me, it is somewhat a hindrance when very 'fine' shot placement is required in low light conditions. I have a scope (with excellent glass) that has a German # 4 reticle, that is pretty much ideal for what I do. The pic below is at 4 power (through a scant 24mm objective) looking at a distance of about 90 yards. It is much superior to the Vortex. I will take some photos of the Vortex, next time I am out. Again, the Vortex is 'Serviceable', but there is certainly room for improvement. I hope this does not come across as a wholly disparaging report of it. Flint. Am I missing something? What's the point of editing the colors in the pic? Why do you assume the colors have been edited?
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: dmov]
#5647256
03/12/15 12:41 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Oversaturation of everything else in the pic.
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: dmov]
#5647282
03/12/15 12:54 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,635
Payne
Cat Herder
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Cat Herder
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,635 |
That's a byproduct of fumes in ETX
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: rifleman]
#5647332
03/12/15 01:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,179
flintknapper
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,179 |
Oversaturation of everything else in the pic. Didn't do anything with it. That photo was taken on December 15th 2009 @ 4:42 p.m. Had a heavy rain that morning, all the leaves and Red Clay soil are still wet. The last rays of sun are on the Oats in the food plot, also on the West side of the trees. The terrain goes slightly uphill from the vantage point (elevated stand). The stand I was sitting in was actually in the shadows of tall pines...looking out into the last area of sunlit food plot. That is what accounts for the contrast. That is just what that area looks like in the Fall, late in the day..in Deep East Texas. I've had a stand in that spot for many, many years, so I am sure I can show you more photos just like it...if you like. Flint.
Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: flintknapper]
#5647373
03/12/15 01:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,208
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,208 |
Personally, I never had a thought the pic was altered.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Leupold VS Viper
[Re: dmov]
#5647632
03/12/15 03:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
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