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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: PMK]
#5571291
01/29/15 07:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,124
postoak
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,124 |
( I'm trying to figure out how a discussion on a 150 acre being surrounded by HF converted into a debate of deer size/genetics East vs. Hill Country deer ) Because everything that could be said about the original subject had been said.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: postoak]
#5571297
01/29/15 07:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,615
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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Posts: 39,615 |
Is it possible some of your neighbors brought in deer stock and some escaped to your place and interbred with the natives? If you are referring to my post, no their is no chance it was from brought in genetic escapees. Our deer gained an average 40% of dressed body weight simply buy herd reduction. In the same time frame I went from seeing 35-40 deer in a sitting to around 10-12 in the last years where the population kinda stabilized. We also did not change any of our feeding habits in that time frame. Antler size and the number of points expressed in bucks increased as well.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5571326
01/29/15 08:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067
titan2232
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067 |
How can you say genetics have been constant when we know people have high fenced and brought in non-native deer? Non- native means nothing. It waters down very quickly. Even then you can go up north and find 40lb differences in weight in areas. The smaller deer are always in higher density areas. Body weight is a combination of density and winter survival. Northern deer are typically heavier do first to lower densities and second harsher winters. Hill Country whitetails would have equal or better body size than East Texas if those deer where high fenced and their numbers controlled?
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: titan2232]
#5571405
01/29/15 08:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,787
scattergun
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,787 |
Sounds to me me like you have been hunting free for a long time and your screwed. Might be time to pay like most of us do or hang it up. Sorry for your loss.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: titan2232]
#5571472
01/29/15 09:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,681
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,681 |
How can you say genetics have been constant when we know people have high fenced and brought in non-native deer? Non- native means nothing. It waters down very quickly. Even then you can go up north and find 40lb differences in weight in areas. The smaller deer are always in higher density areas. Body weight is a combination of density and winter survival. Northern deer are typically heavier do first to lower densities and second harsher winters. Hill Country whitetails would have equal or better body size than East Texas if those deer where high fenced and their numbers controlled? Yelp or even large ranches that are heavy handed on population control.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: scattergun]
#5571481
01/29/15 09:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,358
jshouse
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,358 |
Sounds to me me like you have been hunting free for a long time and your screwed. Might be time to pay like most of us do or hang it up. Sorry for your loss. owning land = hunting for free? wow, i'm gonna go buy myself some land tomorrow!
If I send my neighbors a text and ask them to give me feedback on my lawn and plant rye into a giant dong pattern, I'm probably going to get some less than positive feedback. Same goes here.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: scattergun]
#5571491
01/29/15 09:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,124
postoak
Veteran Tracker
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Sounds to me me like you have been hunting free for a long time and your screwed. Might be time to pay like most of us do or hang it up. Sorry for your loss. Wow, that's harsh! He paid by having the price of 125 acres tied up for 50 years. We all know it is much cheaper to lease than to own.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: jshouse]
#5571498
01/29/15 09:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067
titan2232
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067 |
Sounds to me me like you have been hunting free for a long time and your screwed. Might be time to pay like most of us do or hang it up. Sorry for your loss. owning land = hunting for free? wow, i'm gonna go buy myself some land tomorrow! I want to buy some of that free land you speak of. What's the price again?
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: jshouse]
#5571553
01/29/15 09:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,615
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,615 |
Sounds to me me like you have been hunting free for a long time and your screwed. Might be time to pay like most of us do or hang it up. Sorry for your loss. owning land = hunting for free? wow, i'm gonna go buy myself some land tomorrow! Kinda like you get what you pay for. Its the reason why buying 50 acres out of a big subdivided ranch is a recipe for bad hunting. I hate the term "sustainable" because of my hippie teachers when I was in college, but in my opinion you have to have enough acreage to "sustain" what you want to hunt. He doesn't, it really sucks, but that's what happens when you own a small parcel of land your depending on your neighbors to provide. If everyone in west texas owned 125 acres and shot the same number of deer that the OP took then there might not be any left at all.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: postoak]
#5571557
01/29/15 09:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,615
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,615 |
Sounds to me me like you have been hunting free for a long time and your screwed. Might be time to pay like most of us do or hang it up. Sorry for your loss. Wow, that's harsh! He paid by having the price of 125 acres tied up for 50 years. We all know it is much cheaper to lease than to own. Depending on where this acreage is located I would bet there are people who paid more in 5 years of leasing than what that land is worth.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Lipan Creep]
#5571574
01/29/15 09:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,985
talkturkey
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,985 |
This thread is funny... that is all.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Lipan Creep]
#5571590
01/29/15 09:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
What's harsh and incredibly stupid and incredibly arrogant about many of these replies is the notion that the deer he saw and took ON THE LAND HE OWNED were somehow instead a gift from his neighbor the rich man.
The big guys in this country have done something I never thought possible-filled many with so much animosity that they have become their boot-licking apologists at every turn. Amazing.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5571603
01/29/15 10:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,681
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,681 |
What's harsh and incredibly stupid and incredibly arrogant about many of these replies is the notion that the deer he saw and took ON THE LAND HE OWNED were somehow instead a gift from his neighbor the rich man.
The big guys in this country have done something I never thought possible-filled many with so much animosity that they have become their boot-licking apologists at every turn. Amazing. So the op didn't say he as going to eliminate all the existing deer that will be enclosed on his property? If you take a negative veiw about everything in life you will always be a negative person. I tend to find the silver lining.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: redchevy]
#5571612
01/29/15 10:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067
titan2232
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067 |
Sounds to me me like you have been hunting free for a long time and your screwed. Might be time to pay like most of us do or hang it up. Sorry for your loss. Wow, that's harsh! He paid by having the price of 125 acres tied up for 50 years. We all know it is much cheaper to lease than to own. Depending on where this acreage is located I would bet there are people who paid more in 5 years of leasing than what that land is worth. Very possible. Was the location ever mentioned in this thread? Don't see anything other than a neighbor "cotton farmer". That doesn't sound like west texas.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Lipan Creep]
#5571618
01/29/15 10:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 74
browning_3248
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 74 |
I love how a thread like this gets going and all of a sudden half of thf becomes wildlife biologists overnight haha keep me comin boys
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Lipan Creep]
#5571619
01/29/15 10:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,400
Play Maker
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,400 |
I feel for the OP, but that's life. You take it for what it is and move forward. IMO, the corporation putting up the high fence and the landowner allowing such have done nothing wrong. You are either pro-property rights or you aren't.
Last edited by Play Maker; 01/29/15 10:14 PM.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: titan2232]
#5571642
01/29/15 10:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,615
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,615 |
Sounds to me me like you have been hunting free for a long time and your screwed. Might be time to pay like most of us do or hang it up. Sorry for your loss. Wow, that's harsh! He paid by having the price of 125 acres tied up for 50 years. We all know it is much cheaper to lease than to own. Depending on where this acreage is located I would bet there are people who paid more in 5 years of leasing than what that land is worth. Very possible. Was the location ever mentioned in this thread? Don't see anything other than a neighbor "cotton farmer". That doesn't sound like west texas. I also have no idea where it is located, but the OP lists his location as west texas.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Lipan Creep]
#5571659
01/29/15 10:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,243
Erny
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,243 |
Well. We own a 150 acre farm/ranch that borders a large ranch on three sides and a larger cotton field on one side. We have enjoyed deer hunting on this place for over 50 years and i was hoping my children and grandchildren would as well. Just received word that a larger corporate hunting outfitter has leased the hunting rights to the ranch that we border on three sides and they will be putting up a high fence on all three sides. The cotton farmer on the west side of us put up a high fence several years ago.
That being said we our deer population will take a hit and maybe be non existant. we have no water on our place and the only real use for the place was recreation.
I dont thing a 150 acre ranch will sustain many deer with no water source and very little browse. We cant afford to feed year round.
The high fencing will lower the value of our property now and render it almost useless.
I am looking to buy some land and I am very concerned that something like this could happen. Situations like this make me glad that I just lease. Sorry to hear about this happing but when life deals you a lemon you got to make lemonade. Good luck and I hope this ultimately works out for you.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5571662
01/29/15 10:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
What's harsh and incredibly stupid and incredibly arrogant about many of these replies is the notion that the deer he saw and took ON THE LAND HE OWNED were somehow instead a gift from his neighbor the rich man.
The big guys in this country have done something I never thought possible-filled many with so much animosity that they have become their boot-licking apologists at every turn. Amazing. So the op didn't say he as going to eliminate all the existing deer that will be enclosed on his property? If you take a negative veiw about everything in life you will always be a negative person. I tend to find the silver lining. If you knew me you would know I am one of the most positive folks around. That said, I do not tolerate dumba**ery well.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Lipan Creep]
#5571663
01/29/15 10:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,124
postoak
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,124 |
I just wouldn't agree to pay any of the fence costs. And, before the big landowner built his high fence, I'd get a realistic value for the land and offer to sell out at that price and no less.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5571684
01/29/15 10:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,681
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,681 |
What's harsh and incredibly stupid and incredibly arrogant about many of these replies is the notion that the deer he saw and took ON THE LAND HE OWNED were somehow instead a gift from his neighbor the rich man.
The big guys in this country have done something I never thought possible-filled many with so much animosity that they have become their boot-licking apologists at every turn. Amazing. So the op didn't say he as going to eliminate all the existing deer that will be enclosed on his property? If you take a negative veiw about everything in life you will always be a negative person. I tend to find the silver lining. If you knew me you would know I am one of the most positive folks around. That said, I do not tolerate dumba**ery well. You know and I know there are no absolutes in owning a home or land. If there was you would practice a different speciality then what you do. We find a silver lining and go on.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Play Maker]
#5571688
01/29/15 10:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
I feel for the OP, but that's life. You take it for what it is and move forward. IMO, the corporation putting up the high fence and the landowner allowing such have done nothing wrong. You are either pro-property rights or you aren't. Have you ever heard it said "Your rights end where your neighbors' begin?" It is a founding principle of the Constitution. Every landowner has rights, not just a few. Many western "pro property rights"'states don't allow HFs. Your rights to do as you wish on your property are limited by seasons, bag limits, shooting hours, weapons allowed etc., etc., etc.... Private property rights are not unlimited. Especially when the law says game animals belong to the public, not individual landowners.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Lipan Creep]
#5571697
01/29/15 10:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
Bobo- my silver lining will come when I don't have to read a story like this again.
I don't tell my clients to "find a silver lining" and get out of my office. I help them find it by fighting the ones taking their property.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5571713
01/29/15 10:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,681
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,681 |
I feel for the OP, but that's life. You take it for what it is and move forward. IMO, the corporation putting up the high fence and the landowner allowing such have done nothing wrong. You are either pro-property rights or you aren't. Have you ever heard it said "Your rights end where your neighbors' begin?" It is a founding principle of the Constitution. Every landowner has rights, not just a few. Many western "pro property rights"'states don't allow HFs. Your rights to do as you wish on your property are limited by seasons, bag limits, shooting hours, weapons allowed etc., etc., etc.... Private property rights are not unlimited. Especially when the law says game animals belong to the public, not individual landowners. Except those same states will erect goverment own HF along your property line if the so well please... And they do!!!! If the deer where truley the peoples then a GW should be able to retrieve animals on other properties.. They nor you can
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Re: High Fencing Casualty
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5571724
01/29/15 10:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,681
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,681 |
Bobo- my silver lining will come when I don't have to read a story like this again.
I don't tell my clients to "find a silver lining" and get out of my office. I help them find it by fighting the ones taking their property. You ultimatey give them a best case senerio. That's a silver lining. Again there are no absolutes in land owner ship, even with the largest ranches in TX. That's the gamble we all get into. You can try to minimize it as much as you can, example being why and where you bought your place
Last edited by BOBO the Clown; 01/29/15 10:50 PM.
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