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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: nolanspawn]
#546901
01/12/09 02:12 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,203
Tbar
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Because of agriculture and O/G water consumption in our area we had to redrill four wells. They were at 300' but because of the dropping water table we went to 400'. Drilling, cementing, casing, pumps, windmill relocation etc I think we spent about $4k apiece......and that was 9-10 years ago.
Hope you don't have to go that far.
Tbar
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#546902
01/12/09 02:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 821
nolanspawn
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Quote:
Now I'm curious again, is that well electric or is it a windmill? If it's a windmill who takes care of maintenance and stuff like replacing the leathers? They ought to be able to give you some idea of how deep your water table is and if there is something like an aquaifer under the entire ranch. Maybe give you more information if it would be better in the long run to drill another well.
If you can get a well in on a high spot you can go a long way with gravity flow to water troughs. Just random thoughts.
The cabin well is electric pumped. Given our well at the cabin provides water to 3 cabins and a water trough its possibly hitting an aquifer. I cant say for sure though.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: Tbar]
#546903
01/12/09 02:44 AM
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don k
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Most wells here in Bandera conty are between 400 and 600 ft.And the water isn't that great. The wells in my area have a lot of minerals in them.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#546904
01/12/09 03:54 AM
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Posts: 1,258
Letsgo
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Very interesting thread - I am looking into options on my ranch as well. Another option if you go the well route is a solar pump instead of a windmill. I have no idea how reliable they are or want kind of maintenance it requires but looks like a pretty good idea and cheaper than a windmill. http://www.solarpumps.com/products.htmlI searched around and found Northern Tool sells a solar pump and panels that might save some money.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#546905
01/12/09 06:24 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,339
caldwelldeerhunter
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wherever you decide to put it make sure you have a good shot to it
If I put my wife in a high fence will her rack get bigger?
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: caldwelldeerhunter]
#546906
01/12/09 08:56 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 408
Koolade
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pm sent with the info. you wanted Warrington
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: Koolade]
#546907
01/12/09 05:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,299
BenBob
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I would rather have a tank, but a water well will be more reliable. There is not much clay to make the tank hold water good in the Hill Country, or at least there is not much on our place between Junction and London. We have a tank that catches water when it rains a good amount, which occurred back when Moby Dick was a minnow. I would go with the well as a reliable water source and the nlater on look into the tank deal. Also, before I spent the money to make one big tank, I would make 3 or 4 smaller ones and see where water is the easiest to catch and which tank held the best, then go and put a larger version in.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: nolanspawn]
#546908
01/12/09 06:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,358
Dave Davidson
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Having the right dozer guy who will do the deal cheaply is a huge bonus. Sounds like a good guy who "owes you one".
On digging a water hole, the best mix of sand and clay(sandy loam) is about 60/40 or 65/35. If you get too much clay, it tends to crack on the sides and dam which causes leaks .However, I like the idea of having at least 2 ft of well compacted clay on the bottom. The loam needs to be just wet enough to stick together. You can't pack it if it's too wet or too dry. One way to check the content is to get a ball of it and throw it against your pickup door. If it stays together pretty well, it should hold water. Dozers do a pretty poor job of compacting soil. That really begs for a sheepsfoot roller. Most leakers are caused by improperly compacting and not being cored. Coring is a huge factor.
Wells are virtually useless to fill or even keep water in a tank or pond. One acre, one inch deep, is 27,000 gallons of water. Take a look at the evaporation rates for your area and see whether you can make a difference. Assuming that you can pump 10 gpm, you will replace 14,400 gallons per day or about 1/2 inch per acre. Of course, that assumes that your well can continously supply 10gpm and also that you can afford the electricity. Bottom line is that you can seldom break even in Texas.
Wells aren't a sure thing either. I finally hit water on the 3rd try. Cost was about $15K. Ouch!! Windmills are getting pretty expensive and don't produce like electricity.
If you want to know something about tanks/ponds/pools contact the Pond Boss office and buy Lusks book "Perfect Pond...Want One?".
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: Ox190]
#546909
01/12/09 10:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,801
booger
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Quote:
I have a buddy who get these 300 gallon tanks from his company that previously held oil or antifreeze. His dad washes them out really well and they rig them up to troughs and that's how they get water for the deer. His dad keep two of them at the house and every few months throws them in the back of his truck and fills them up. He has a sub pump connected to a car battery he throws in them to transfer the water to the ones at the lease. If I go down to help them move all of their gear this year ( they got a new lease) I will take pics and post them for you.
Ox190, Do you have any of these tanks or can you get any? Shoot me a pm if you can get a hand on some.
Big ones line-up, little ones bunch-up
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#546910
01/13/09 07:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 821
nolanspawn
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Quote:
On digging a water hole, the best mix of sand and clay(sandy loam) is about 60/40 or 65/35. If you get too much clay, it tends to crack on the sides and dam which causes leaks .However, I like the idea of having at least 2 ft of well compacted clay on the bottom. The loam needs to be just wet enough to stick together. You can't pack it if it's too wet or too dry. One way to check the content is to get a ball of it and throw it against your pickup door. If it stays together pretty well, it should hold water. Dozers do a pretty poor job of compacting soil. That really begs for a sheepsfoot roller. Most leakers are caused by improperly compacting and not being cored. Coring is a huge factor.
Wells are virtually useless to fill or even keep water in a tank or pond. One acre, one inch deep, is 27,000 gallons of water. Take a look at the evaporation rates for your area and see whether you can make a difference. Assuming that you can pump 10 gpm, you will replace 14,400 gallons per day or about 1/2 inch per acre. Of course, that assumes that your well can continously supply 10gpm and also that you can afford the electricity. Bottom line is that you can seldom break even in Texas.
There is zero clay in my area, just alot of caliche and dirt. someone mentioned a sealer that could be store bought. By the way great info on evaporation and use of a well to keep the tank full.
Last edited by nolanspawn; 01/13/09 07:50 AM.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: nolanspawn]
#546911
01/13/09 05:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,358
Dave Davidson
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If the sealer is ESS-13. $$$$$$$$$
Drilling mud or gel is Bentonite. It is a mined type of clay and is processed into either pellets or flour type dust. Most of the people that I know who have used it to stop leaks have had mixed results. I have tried it 4 times and my results haven't been mixed. It has never worked but maybe I have always done something wrong.
I know zero about caliche but have always though that it was a type of clay. If so, a knowledgeable pond builder can mix the clay(?) and sand.
I would assume that others in your area have tanks and have the same "dirt" that you have. Check and see what they have done and how it has worked out.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#546912
01/13/09 06:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,056
rstewlandman
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My vote is do both, have a well feed into the tank with a float valve of some sort, we have a trough well at our lease in menard and in the post rut the do get run off by the bucks, in the rut the big bucks dominate, and doee get run off by the bucks....the off season might be OK. I'd say dig your tank and fill it with the well, that way your tank stays full in dry times and you get a fish pond. I guess the only draw back is the cost....
the man at the top of the mountain didn't fall up it
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: rstewlandman]
#546913
01/13/09 07:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,956
don k
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Don't waste your money on bentonite. I have seen it tried on a few tanks around here and it has never worked. There are very few wells around this part of the hill country that would help support keeping water in a tank.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: don k]
#546914
01/13/09 08:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 396
Waylon A.
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I checked into a windmill to help keep my tank full. Dowell Water Well in Stephenville priced one for me, turn-key, and it was going to be about twice what an electric well would be. They also said it would take about a 20mph constant wind to pump 2 gallons a minute. They didn't think a windmill would do much good during the summer when you have a high evaporation rate.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: nolanspawn]
#546915
01/13/09 08:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,669
cody
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First I'd consider whether it's a lease or you own the property, you may have stated that and I just missed it. Second is how big the property is. If it's a smaller tract I'd run a water line off the well at your cabin a little ways away and buy a trough and a float. That would be your cheapest option. Deer will water right next to the house, they've been doing it at all of our places all their lives. Depending on the type of soil a tank could be a good option. But in my experience, colliche doesn't always hold water. A good clay soil will do well. However, if you build a good tank and get it in the right spot chances are it's going to cost you more than $2500 in dozer work. JMO
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: cody]
#546916
01/14/09 07:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 821
nolanspawn
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Quote:
First I'd consider whether it's a lease or you own the property, you may have stated that and I just missed it. Second is how big the property is. If it's a smaller tract I'd run a water line off the well at your cabin a little ways away and buy a trough and a float. That would be your cheapest option. Deer will water right next to the house, they've been doing it at all of our places all their lives. Depending on the type of soil a tank could be a good option. But in my experience, colliche doesn't always hold water. A good clay soil will do well. However, if you build a good tank and get it in the right spot chances are it's going to cost you more than $2500 in dozer work. JMO
I own my property. As mentioned before the dozer guy owes me one so he will build my a tank as large as I want for $2500. My property isnt huge, but the cabin is so far from the center of the property the cost of running a line no doubt would be more than the tank. I know for a fact that we could easily put a trough in front of our cabin and see lots of deer, but 50 yards away at our neighbors cabin he has one. Not worth putting more strain on that well than is necessary.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: nolanspawn]
#546917
01/14/09 06:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,669
cody
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All good points... We have 7 tanks on our place 3 of which I have never seen dry. The others will catch well but will not hold. 2 of them are quite sandy, the other two are in colliche. I'd venture to say that the sand holds a bit better thank the colliche. We've talked about tank liners for the colliche tanks and I've heard of different chemicals to be used but have not heard rave reviews of any of them. What is your terain like?
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: cody]
#546918
01/14/09 08:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,956
don k
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Here is a tank or could be a recharge dam I just finished recently.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: don k]
#546919
01/18/09 02:57 PM
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Posts: 821
nolanspawn
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Going to try and have my dozer guy come out and help me see if and where the best spot would be. I know I have a small draw that at the low end of it might make a nice spot to build.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#546920
01/24/09 08:22 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 115
KJG
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well, after all of our ponds dried up and the deer seemed to be leaving our lease looking for water I rigged up a homemade watering trough. Knock on wood so far it's working pretty good and the deer, turkey and other critters seem to have taking a liking to it.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: KJG]
#546921
01/24/09 04:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,358
Dave Davidson
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NSpawn, get a topo map and check the runoff area. Yeah, I know, it has to rain for that to matter. At this time, you might not have enough soil moisture to make it work.
KJG, that's pretty neat. How do you get the water to it?
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#546922
01/24/09 08:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 115
KJG
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I have an extra tank I keep in camp that I put in the bed of my truck and fill up in then drive out to my spot, back up and gravity fill. Takes about 20 minutes to fill up in camp w/city water and about 30 minutes to gravity feed/fill one up when empty. The tanks hold 300 gallons.
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: KJG]
#546923
01/24/09 09:27 PM
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Posts: 1,959
Scoop
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Been watching this thread, and noticed nobody has mentioned solar powered pumps yet. If you really want a well separate from camp for wildlife water, I think solar may be a better option than a windmill. I have 2 solar set-ups on my place and one 220 pump that I operate off of a generator when I am there. The solar is only an option if your water table is relatively shallow, since they won't push water up from more than 200' or so. I have 2 large solar panels combining to put out 36 volts, and a submersible dc pump. The whole set-up would probably set you back $2500 plus, (not including the cost of drilling the well itself) which is still cheaper than a windmill. I have mine feed a deep metal trough, which overflows into a shallow trough, which over flows into what I call my solar powered mud puddles. Not a big tank, but in that dry country, a 15-20' diameter dirt tank really draws in the wildlife.
The generator option also works well. Takes about an hour to fill a 30' concrete cattle trough, which I need to do every 2-3 weeks in dry season. When I patch up my big cistern and install a float valve, it will need filling much less often.
I would still explore using your existing well and running some of that black pvc tubing wherever you wanted to have a trough / tank. May be a lot cheaper option than drilling another well.
Doug
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Re: Water trough or tank?
[Re: Scoop]
#546924
01/24/09 09:54 PM
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Posts: 664
WyattT
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Bentonite cracks when it dries so it wont work too well in texas. its the go-to up north though
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