Ive seen this debate on here several times. Took my savage to the range this weekend. I shot 40 rounds of federal fusion through it then cleaned it good because I was out of those and was going to load some sierras for it to test out.

First clean barrel shot hit 8 inches low and 6 inches left of the bullseye. The next 3 grouped in Quarter sized group 2 inches left and 3 inches low. The clean bore shot was over 6 inches from the fouled shots. That's enough for me to never hunt with a clean gun.

Yep whether you clean and stow after season always go to the range prior to season for some practice and fouling. Before you leave the range let the barrel cool all the way back to outside temp than make one cold bore shot. Thats where the bullet will hit opening morning on the buck of your dreams

I won't hunt a clean gun if I have anything to do with it. Fouled barrel just makes sense to me

That's why I posted this thread and topic: http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/5359384/1

Local smithy just did a pretty neat test about clean vs fouled...they found that firing 3 fouling shots decreased the group considerably. Clean bore was several inches low & left...3 fouling shots then a 3 shot 100 yard group shrunk to under 1/4" dead on the money...308 but don't remember manufacturer...

rick

I was gonna post it on your topic but couldn't find it.

Personally, I always sight in with a cold clean barrel... cleaning after every shot and letting the barrel cool. I'm kind of anal about cleaning my guns after every use... that way, I duplicate the condition of my gun on that very first shot at an animal.

Draymun

What if you need a follow up shot or you want to shoot something else on the same trip? My point of impact shifted 6.5 inches from clean barrel to the second shot. I also did not oil the barrel after cleaning.

How clean are we talking? I knocked the powder out of mine the other day but left the copper. Put about 15 rounds through it yesterday and don't plan on touching it until February other than a couple of cold bore shots this coming weekend.

I use a foaming cleaner, it is supposed to be a copper solvent as well. I let it sit for 10 min and then patched dry.

Here's a group I shot with my Rem Model 7 in 300 blk out with my 125 Nosler BT ammo on Friday. I pulled a box from my inventory and went to the range. I set up my targets, shot some rounds and cleaned this rifle (plus 2 others). This rifle had all kinds of different loads down it and groups were starting to open up. So I cleaned it (to the method described in the above link). I put a few foulers down range, and shot about 7-8 rounds to get it zero'd. Once I had it where I wanted it, I shot this group. 4 rounds in about .6 to .7 at 100 yards. Naturally, I pulled the 5th shot. I was aiming at 12 o'clock on top of the diamond. It's about 1/4" to 1/2" low, but good enough for my hunting.

My point is, the rifle will shoot it's best somewhere around 5-50 rounds after cleaning. If you are only shooting on a clean barrel, why? You will get high ES (extreme spreads) in your velocity. If you plan to "shoot" the thing, shooting on a clean barrel isn't practical. I want to spend my time shooting, not cleaning. Who has time to clean on each shot?

Ok, CCB (clean cold bore) is dead nuts. Where does shot two go? Three? Four? and so on. Where does number 15-50 go?

I would change your practice. Its very good to document your CBS (cold bore shot) POI vs. POA, and then keep shooting. I go on a doe hunt every year that always produces meat. This past January I head shot two small ones thre seconds apart, drug them out of the field, dressed them, and went back to hunting. Hunted again the next day as well. Every shot on a fouled barrel.

When accuracy falls off, on a fouled barrel, clean it. That may be in 20 rounds or 500, just do it when it tells you it needs it, otherwise don't mess with it. After cleaning do as redchevy did and shoot it several times noting improvement.

Thanks again for posting that Chad. I had just cleaned my barrel with foam cleaner to get it 'ready' for the hunting season. After I read your post I went to the range and put 30 foulers in it (10 3 shot groups).

The early groups were not terrible, 1.5"-2" which can work for hunting, but I was extremely surprised in the last couple groups. The best group being my 22,23,24 shot group, it was under .5 inches! The last 2 groups I shot were right around there but honestly I was all excited to run down range and see the tiny group I just shot, so I am sure my nerves played a factor.

I have ONE rifle that I have found to shoot to the same point of impact whether clean, fouled, cold, or warm. The rest require a few rounds to get back to normal after a thorough cleaning.

I agree with your points. I didn't realize the OP's POI shift between his clean and fouled barrel was 6.5"
Most of my POI shifts on my rifles are <1"

I have friends that swear that the only thing that goes down their barrel are bullets....I have others that clean their rifles after the morning AND PM hunts. I think i fall somewhere in the middle. I usually never shoot more than once before the deer/pig either takes off into the thick woods (I hunt East Texas triple canopy creek bottoms) or DRTs....

I guess I got the cleaning habit from my days of shooting corrosive ammo down my Milsurp guns... Not cleaning the barrel right away cost me a good original M1-Garand barrel as well messing up a couple of other non-chrome lined com-bloc rifles. Since i clean...I sight in for a clean barrel.

Draymun

The only time I clean mine is when it starts to shoot bad. When I first get a gun I do some shooting to get it on paper somewhat close to center, then I do load development and when I settle on a load I clean it real good. Then shoot until it tells me to clean.


Walter

How do you feel about bore snakes then? Instead of doing a big cleaning after shooting I usually just run a bore snake through it, I would imagine there is still plenty of fouling in the barrel right?

tag

I use bore snakes too. I clean with a rod about every 3rd or 4th time, and
it's probably a light cleaning compared to most folks. I'll also clean with a
cleaning rod if something funky is happening at the range, along with re-checking
action screws and mounts/rings.

I normally clean when accuracy falls off noticeably, and if I'm shooting poorly I might not actually notice that the rifle is at fault.

If I had a rifle that put clean barrel shots 6 inches from fouled barrel shots, I'd immediately get rid of it. My rifles don't show much diff between clean and dirty barrel shots, though there is usually a small diff.

If you asked me to shoot the best possible group with one of my rifles, I'd clean the bore and then shoot it at least twice, wait for the barrel to cool and then shoot for record. No need to run 30 rounds through it, though it varies with the rifle. 30 rounds in the 220 and it needs cleaning. 30 rounds in the 270 and it might be time to clean. 30 rounds in the 260 and it'll still be shooting good. In the 223, I'm still not exactly sure where the fouling sweet spot is, but I'll still be Ok at 30 rounds.

And I should mention that my normal 'cleaning' will be with Shooter's Choice or Butch's Boreshine unless I think I'm due for some copper removal. 260 doesn't copper up. 220 coppers up fast. Both have excellent aftermarket barrels.

IMO, Bore snakes are good for cleaning out any debris in the barrel. It won't remove hardly any copper build up or powder fouling. It's good for field use when you get mud or stuff in the barrel. It's better than nothing, if it's all you have.

That's what I was thinking, thanks Chad.

I always store my rifles with clean barrels, and foul them with a shot or two if possible before taking them to the woods. Because my shots are seldom beyond 75 yards, my clean bore shots are never outside the heart/lung area.

It's just against my religion to let my firearms, or anything that I value greatly, remain dirty for an extended length of time.

Why is that?

I guess it doent really matter to me I only clean it when it needs cleaning, maybe once ever 2-3 years and I always shoot it to foul it and check zero before hunting.

Its the first time I cleaned the gun, maybe as it breaks in more it will go away, but it doesn't bother me at all.