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300 Blackout Pig Test #5326391 09/25/14 09:02 PM
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Beckett Offline OP
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Went this morning to hunt near Bonham. Got my gear together at the gate, turned the truck lights off and drove through the pasture using a flashlight out the window. When I stopped, I got out of the truck and did a quick scan with Thermal to look for cows.

About 50 yards from me was a boar hog digging a hole. I was planning a daylight hunt so I didn't have a light on my gun. Fortunately, I was planning an ammo test with the gun my Pulsar N750 is mounted to, so that gun was in the truck. I opened two doors (which turned all the interior lights on), loaded an AR-15 (which is not quiet) and snuck around the other side of the truck for the shot. He was still digging and never knew what hit him.

Afterwards I did a very unofficial ammo test with the results noted below. As a reference point, my 300 blackout with the Barnes Bullet will completely pass through both shoulders of a 250 lb boar with a pencil sized entrance and dime sized exit wound.

Target - 12 inches of old textbooks, compacted together in box
Guns - 16 inch AR-15's
Distance - 30 yards

300 Blackout, Barnes 110 gr Tac-TX, 20 gr H110 - Total Penetration 3 inches. At 3 inches, hole was .5 inches wide and area of concave damage was 1.97 inches wide. Bullet mushroomed perfectly, 100% weight retention.

300 Blackout, Hornady 125 gr SST, 17.5 gr W296 - Total penetration 3.88 inches. At 3 inches, multiple holes from small pieces of lead, area of concave damage was 2.58 inches wide. Bullet started mass fragmentation 2.25 inches into the textbooks.

.223, Gameking 55 gr BTHP, Federal Premium Factory Ammo - Total penetration 3.63 inches. At 3 inches, hole was .8 inches wide, area of concave damage was 1.64 inches wide. Bullet started mass fragmentation at 3 inches.

Surprises?? - It looks like an SST in my 300 Blackout should fully pass through a mature hog while delivering more shock through fragmentation. Also, I was suprised by the performance of the varmint round in the 223. It holds together exceptionally well before fragmenting.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5326403 09/25/14 09:09 PM
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I would not expect the 223 game king or sst to penetrate as well as the barnes.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5326453 09/25/14 09:31 PM
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Beckett -

I am trying to get similar testing done with paper media and 300 blackout, thanks for the data.

Can you measure the expanded size of the Barnes blacktip bullet?

Also - why didn't you use the dead hog to test with.....

Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5326464 09/25/14 09:36 PM
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Im with hunttxhogs on using the hog for bullet testing. From your text book test, the 223 gameking should penetrate further than the 300 blackout barnes did. The barnes made it though two shoulders on the hog I doubt the game king will.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5326498 09/25/14 09:57 PM
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I've shot a lot of critters with a lot of the blk out bullets out of my AR-15 and 2- Rem bolt guns. I've also spoken to a lot of customers who have taken a lot more animals. Here's my take on what I've seen and talked to with customers on the different bullet options for the blk out.

The 110 Barnes will give you deep penetration and a pass through in most critters. Since it is a copper bullet, it lacks the hydrostatic shock of the lead bullets. It's a good bullet for expansion and penetration. It will also penetrate kevlar.

The 110 V-max is a varmint bullet and will work well on softer animals, like deer. But shoot a big pig, and you will not get very deep penetration. Head shots work well with this bullet, though. This makes a great self defense round, though.

The 115 Berger I have shot a few deer and coyotes with. Everything was DRT, but with the thick target jacket on the bullet, there was little expansion. Everything had a pass through, and never took a step.

All of the 125 bullets (125 Nolser Ballistic Tip, 125 SST, 125 Sierra SP) I've shot performed similarly to each other. They give you text book mushroom shaped expansion with deep penetration. Several customers have sent me pictures of a recovered bullet from the off side of a big pig with a perfect mushroom shaped bullet. This bullet weight gives the best expansion and penetration for the blk out, IMO. I shoot the 125 BT and 125 SST in my rifles.

The 150 Nosler BT was a very accurate bullet and hits steel hard. But if you shoot something, you will get straight line penetration and an exit wound smaller than a dime. This bullet in the blk out is not expanding. I took a large 200+ lb pig with this bullet. He ran only 30-40 yards. Bullet went straight in and straight out. One customer reported a double kill with one shot with this bullet on pigs. I like this bullet since it shoots very good, but I like more expansion.

The 180 Sierra SP is one of the most accurate loads I used to shoot in my bolt guns. But same story as the 150, no expansion.

Of all the bullet options, the 125 weights are my preferred bullet for the blk out for hunting.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: ChadTRG42] #5326513 09/25/14 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
I've shot a lot of critters with a lot of the blk out bullets out of my AR-15 and 2- Rem bolt guns. I've also spoken to a lot of customers who have taken a lot more animals. Here's my take on what I've seen and talked to with customers on the different bullet options for the blk out.

The 110 Barnes will give you deep penetration and a pass through in most critters. Since it is a copper bullet, it lacks the hydrostatic shock of the lead bullets. It's a good bullet for expansion and penetration. It will also penetrate kevlar.

The 110 V-max is a varmint bullet and will work well on softer animals, like deer. But shoot a big pig, and you will not get very deep penetration. Head shots work well with this bullet, though. This makes a great self defense round, though.

The 115 Berger I have shot a few deer and coyotes with. Everything was DRT, but with the thick target jacket on the bullet, there was little expansion. Everything had a pass through, and never took a step.

All of the 125 bullets (125 Nolser Ballistic Tip, 125 SST, 125 Sierra SP) I've shot performed similarly to each other. They give you text book mushroom shaped expansion with deep penetration. Several customers have sent me pictures of a recovered bullet from the off side of a big pig with a perfect mushroom shaped bullet. This bullet weight gives the best expansion and penetration for the blk out, IMO. I shoot the 125 BT and 125 SST in my rifles.

The 150 Nosler BT was a very accurate bullet and hits steel hard. But if you shoot something, you will get straight line penetration and an exit wound smaller than a dime. This bullet in the blk out is not expanding. I took a large 200+ lb pig with this bullet. He ran only 30-40 yards. Bullet went straight in and straight out. One customer reported a double kill with one shot with this bullet on pigs. I like this bullet since it shoots very good, but I like more expansion.

The 180 Sierra SP is one of the most accurate loads I used to shoot in my bolt guns. But same story as the 150, no expansion.

Of all the bullet options, the 125 weights are my preferred bullet for the blk out for hunting.


Good info here - thanks Chad, help me on the following

Are both you guys running the 125gr SST at shorter 2.100" COAL - by shorter I mean it isn't designed like other bullets to use the full mag length.

On the 115gr Berger, I assume that is a VLD? I say that because of your "thicker jacket" reference and their target bullets having a lighter jacket.

On the 150 I assume that is supersonic loading and then for your 180 subsonic or are they both supersonic?

Thanks

Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5326519 09/25/14 10:13 PM
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Yes, all of these above are supersonic ammo, the full power stuff. I don't shoot the subs for hunting. The Berger I shoot and have about 25,000+ of is the 30 Cal 115 Grain Match FB Target (non VLD). I spoke to Berger about this bullet, and they confirmed it is a heavy jacket, and would most likely not get any expansion. That's what I've seen also on deer and yotes. But it shoots freakin' good and fast.

I'm not sure of my COAL off hand on the 125 SST, but I seat it to the top of the cannelure.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: redchevy] #5326942 09/26/14 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
I would not expect the 223 game king or sst to penetrate as well as the barnes.


Like I said....a very unofficial test. Parts of the SST made it further but the Barnes was still intact.
I'm sure the Barnes didn't penetrate as far because it was pushing more mass.

My brothers a rancher and kills the heck out of hogs with the 223, 55 gr Game King bullet and I always wondered why it worked so well. I thought it would blow up on impact but apparently it stays together long enough to inflict a lot of shock.

I've averaged 3-4 pigs a month for the last 2 years using the Barnes. Head and neck shots are DRT but shoulder shots perplex me. About 1/3 of shoulder shots fall DRT, 1/3 run 30-40 yards and 1/3 can make it 200 yards before flopping over. This isn't specific to the Blackout....I've seen them run with 30-06, 270's, etc., in the shoulder.

I thought I'd try the SST after watching Texas Lawman's videos. The Blackout is going to be about 200 fps slower (within 100 yds) than the 6.8 Texas Lawman uses, so I was worried about penetration. Now that I know penetration's not an issue I can work up a load and see if its going to be accurate. I've found the Blackout to be VERY finnicky when it comes to bullet selection.

As to

Quote:
Why didn't I use the hog for bullet testing?


The answer is....I never thought about it. My test was for penetration in textbooks and all the other info was discovered when I got home and started dissecting the targets. Why didn't I marry an Opthamologist? I don't know.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5327123 09/26/14 03:43 AM
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Very informative thread, do you guys have any data on 308 loads


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5327150 09/26/14 04:10 AM
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I like the 125 sst much better than the 110 Barnes. My Noveske for some reason hates 110 gr bullets. It's an sbr.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: MDMORROW] #5327426 09/26/14 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: MDMORROW
I like the 125 sst much better than the 110 Barnes. My Noveske for some reason hates 110 gr bullets. It's an sbr.


Interesting.......I have a Noveske 300 Blackout SBR with the 12.2 inch Barrel. Very accurate with 110 gr Barnes, max load of H110.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5327436 09/26/14 01:36 PM
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The interesting thing about penetration is, if you slow down the speeds, you will get more penetration. Some of the slowest rounds will penetrate the deepest.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5327851 09/26/14 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: Beckett
Originally Posted By: MDMORROW
I like the 125 sst much better than the 110 Barnes. My Noveske for some reason hates 110 gr bullets. It's an sbr.


Interesting.......I have a Noveske 300 Blackout SBR with the 12.2 inch Barrel. Very accurate with 110 gr Barnes, max load of H110.


May be something to do with harmonics. Mine is the 8.2". I've only used imr 4227 but I recently got a hold of some h110 so I'll try that as well. I only shot the Barnes factory loads with the 110 gr. I handloaded some Speer 110 gr as well and accuracy was poor also. It's a tack driver though with 125 sst and 125 nosler bt.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5333759 09/30/14 02:05 PM
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Chad,
What kind of velocities were you getting with the 150gr? I believe I can break 2000fps in a 16" with 300MP but I need to do some further testing to be sure. I was hoping there would be some expansion above 1800fps with the plastic tip but maybe it isn't enough to really disrupt. I'll be hunting with 125gr nosler bt anyway.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5333805 09/30/14 02:28 PM
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In a 16" AR barrel, the 150 BT I load runs 1950 fps. If you shoot the same ammo in a bolt gun suppressed, I get 2030 fps. You gain a little more speed in the bolt gun since there is no action to cycle. The big pig I shot with my suppressed bolt gun was about 50 yards away. Impact velocity should have been around 1935 fps. I got a clean pass through with an exit wound slightly smaller than a dime. Shot placement was right behind the shoulder. I'm sure the front of the bullet opened up slightly, like I've seen on some slower bullets, but not more than bullet diameter. The 150's will penetrate very deep. But the 125's get mushroom shaped and penetrate well. I like the 125's for the blk out.

300 MP would be good, if you can get enough in there. It would be a compressed load for sure. I've played with all the typical blk out powders.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5333838 09/30/14 02:41 PM
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Yeah 300 MP seems like a great BO powder at least for heavier bullets. The nosler published load of 19.5gr behind a 125gr bt does 2250fps just like they say it does. No swipes and nice round edges on the primers with decent accuracy. Velocity was erratic though with 110gr varmageddons. Like 150+fps swings but again further testing is needed. Might just need a little heavier charge or more crimp.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5339260 10/03/14 02:06 AM
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Are you just experimenting or are you looking for a particular result?

Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: ZenArchery] #5340893 10/04/14 02:28 AM
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Just tried the 125 SST's in my short barrel Noveske Blackout. Getting 1 inch groups at 100 yds with 16.5 gr W296. Group opened up to 2 inches at 17 and 17.5 gr. Will be interesting to chronograph and whack a pig!


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5348691 10/08/14 06:11 PM
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We are planning a hunt in a few days and I was going to hunt with my new 300 Blk Out with suppressor using the Gemtech 187 grain polymer tip. With the slower speed (1050 fps) will I have enough penetration for a knock down or am I going to chasing a bleeding out hog???

Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Gumbi] #5348757 10/08/14 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: Gumbi
We are planning a hunt in a few days and I was going to hunt with my new 300 Blk Out with suppressor using the Gemtech 187 grain polymer tip. With the slower speed (1050 fps) will I have enough penetration for a knock down or am I going to chasing a bleeding out hog???

With the subs, shot placement is key. You will need to take head shots or spine shots. Body or shoulder shots will result in a long tracking, if you can track it. You are essentially shooting a 45 acp in a rifle platform, but with a lighter and smaller bullet. I'd recommend the supersonic ammo, like a 125 grain for good expansion and penetration. They are still very quiet suppressed, but with a sonic crack. And the pigs will run as soon as they are hit with whatever bullet you are shooting anyway.


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Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5351510 10/10/14 01:27 AM
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What about some of the newer Gorilla ammo, they have the new 110gr Nosler Varmageddon which is supposed to be designed for hogs. Would the lower grain get me more penetration?

Re: 300 Blackout Pig Test [Re: Beckett] #5351534 10/10/14 01:38 AM
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Those wold be a super sonic round running about 2200 fps. It would provide more energy and IMO, would work better than a sub round. I prefer the 125 grain bullets for mushroom shaped expansion and good penetration. The 110 grain lead bullets will work well, but may fragment a little a limit penetration.


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