I read a lot on here but don't post often.

I saw several references to spinosad insecticide in the gardening thread and since we're trying to go the organic route I bought some. Last year I didn't get hardly any tomatoes off my plants due to stink bugs. This year I took a chance and got my plants in the ground early so I think that I got ahead of the hatch. I have already harvested about 10 gallons of Roma's and a good dozen Celebrities but the Roma's are ahead. Just in the past week the bug population has exploded. I have what I call stink bugs and also those smaller bugs that are shaped like a shield. I noticed a couple of cut worms this evening too. I squash all that I can when I'm out there but know I'm not even denting the population.

So my question is will spinosad kill these things? I don't know the proper name for the bugs I'm describing so I can't consult the label. I sprayed this evening after picking so I hope I've made a dent in them.

If this stuff won't deter these bugs what should I use to stay organic?

Nothing like pulling a fresh tomato off the vine and eating it standing in the rows.

Thanks,
Tim

You might forward this question to Howard Garrett at the Dallas Morning News. He has a Thursday question and answer column on organic gardening. I believe he still has a weekend call-in radio show too.

Spinosad is the active ingredient in the flea killer Comfortis. I know from personal experience that Howard will use and recommend spinosad on his own dogs if the flea problem gets too bad. The chemical is a synthetic nicotinic, and he believed (at one time anyway)that spinosad was the least toxic insecticide for organic use.

He won't even use pyrethrum anymore, so I'm not sure where he stands on spinosad for garden use nowadays. He and I had a falling-out a few years back over dog care.

Dawaba--this brings up a great question i have always had on Comfortis/Spinosad, how on earth does it kill fleas on a dog without effecting the dog? Ie if it is a synthetic nicotine and dog ingests it, goes into blood stream, flea tikes a bight out of fido, flea gets killed. But how does the dog stay safe with that in its blood stream? I am about to switch to Comfortis, i think as Frontline not working as well and i beleive my dog to have a flea allergy. Sorry OP for the misdirect, just so the good Dr.'s post and thought i would ask about spinosad while i was thinking about it.

Matt, it has been many, many years since I studied physiology and pharmacology, but I will give you an overview, at least as I understand it.

Even though mammals and arthropods are both part of the animal kingdom, and there are many similarities between us and them, there are a few differences that researchers can use to attack insects but do minimal damage to animals. Conveniently, there is a notable difference in how mammalian nerves command muscles to move and how insects control their own muscles. At the "synapse" where our motor nerves touch our muscles, the chemical that crosses the synapse and "orders" the muscle to move is known as acetylcholine, or ACH. Another neurotransmitter, GABA, or gamma amino butyric acid is also quite common, especially in the brain where nerves synapse with other nerves. In insects and many other arthropods, the neurotransmitters, ACH and GABA, have a slightly different molecular structure than ours, so a research chemist will look for drugs or chemicals that will block insect neurotransmitters while sparing mammalian ACH and GABA.

The old organophosphate insecticides we knew growing up, like dursban, diazinon, and others, had too much cross-reactivity with mammalian synapses to make them perfectly safe. In fact, sarin, the chemical poison used in the Tokyo subway attack several years back--and apparently also used by Assad against the Syrian rebels--is an organophosphate that is more toxic to mammals than to insects.

Spinosad, I believe, has the safest profile yet discovered. It has been shown to have outstanding performance on insect neurotransmission blockage, and nearly zero effects on mammals. Of course, it's not 100% perfect, but it's close. That's why Garrett was reluctantly willing to use it on his dogs.

Orange oil will kill most bugs. Will not harm the plant.

www.dirtdoctor.com for lots of info on organic methods.

kills the beneficial also.......but sometimes you got to do it.

I am covered up with more grasshoppers and frogs and toads (by the hundreds)(I have learned to hate toads) than I have ever seen in my life

Tim, Spinosad will kill bugs that get a direct spray, will also kill chewing bugs from residual (dry) spray. It will also contact kill any beneficial bug, that is why you spray near dark in the evening. When its dry it is not a contact poison, has to be consumed.

To control stink bugs, I spray, but also try to do a daily "recon", I use a propane torch and burn the eggs and nymphs/adults. They cook quick so the plant doesn't get hurt, may brown where you cook the egg cluster on a leaf.. There are very few chemical controls for stink bugs when they get to adult.

Spinosad really does a number on grasshoppers, leaf hoppers and leaf miners, anything that will chew the vegetation.

I love the stuff, has done wonders for us.

Dawaba--thank you sir, i do appreciate it. What do you think about it as a flea med for dogs, comfortis that is? One flea bite seems to set mine lab on fire, ie frontline plus works but i think it allows them to get bit for a few hours. Off topic, sorry OP

Regarding our North Texas fleas, right now Frontline is only passable at best. Comfortis(spinosad) is the best flea killer, without doubt. If you have a solid-gold flea problem, use Comfortis. If you are seeing only the occasional flea, give Frontline a go.

Thank you for the replies, especially Western. And no problem on the derail Matt and dawaba, that was interesting.

I checked again last night and saw a living lady bug and one of those "shield" looking bugs. I killed that sucker by squashing him.

I had read about torching them but I don't think that would be easy in my plants. These things are so thick and bushy I have to watch how I move between the plants so I don't break off limbs or step on fruit.

I looked through the plants quickly and didn't see many stink bugs but I didn't pick any tomatoes yesterday so I didn't look as close as I could have. I will this evening after work.

I bought a bottle of "All Seasons Horticultural & Dormant Spray Oil" too. The label says that it is 98% mineral oil and works by smothering. I am assuming this would be nonselective as well and could smother beneficial insects too. I may apply this stuff in a few days and then alternate between spinosad and it.

Another question, if I water a day or two after applying spinosad will it wash off the spray?

Are there beneficial insects that control stink bugs? If so I I will find some before next May.

All of the replies are appreciated,
Tim

Yes, hand watering will wash it off, as it will with almost anything you put out. Hand watering isnt good for the plant anyway, drip or soaker hose is the ay to go if you can.

There are many beneficials that kill stink bugs, like assassin bugs for one, but often there are way more stink bugs than they can handle if they are able to hatch. I have read, but haven't tried it, that you can inject Spinosad into the root (above ground) of cucumberits and that will take care of the bugs (stink bugs are one) that are piercers. The pierce the plant rather than chew it.

When looking for stink bugs, move slow, if they sense you there, they will go behind whatever they are on and you may not see them.

If you dont want to torch, use a small can or cup with soapy water and throw them in, or just mash them . Whatever kills them. Another thing, if you see an adult, check every inch of the plant you found it on, especially under the leaves, you will likely find eggs laid (usually under the leaf near the stem) destroy those big time. Eggs will be brown and laid in a cluster, Lady bug eggs look similar but are yellowish.

Here is a list of some beneficial's, good to get to know them and what they go after.

http://www.organicgardening.com/learn-and-grow/meet-beneficial-insects

There is a bug called the "spined soldier bug", looks almost like a stinkbug, but they are good to have so dont kill'm.

http://entnemdept.ifas.ufl.edu/creatures/beneficial/podisus_maculiventris.htm

When you get your Spinosad concentrate, it will have doses, time to wait before harvest (varies depending on plant) ec tra. I usually try to get 2 weeks, but if I see allot of activity, game on.

Well from the link you posted, I think what I was calling a "shield bug" is the "spined soldier bug".

And my problem bug is the "leaffooted bug."

Tim