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Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
#5120301
05/20/14 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,116
tlk
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,116 |
You can't fix stupid
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: tlk]
#5120315
05/20/14 08:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Interesting. History of a deer is important in management of middle-aged to older age bucks.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: tlk]
#5120322
05/20/14 08:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,352
duckboy007
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,352 |
Little bit of luck in everything!
My dog snores. Secret Agent Custom Calls
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: tlk]
#5120341
05/20/14 08:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Too many variables, with timely rain being the biggest.
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: tlk]
#5120361
05/20/14 08:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I would be interested in seeing some data on age class of 3-5 yrs old bucks with scores by year with rainfall data from those years. I am interested in how the rut effects bucks in those age classes.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: tlk]
#5120377
05/20/14 08:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Since they do the most covering I'd imagine there'd need to be ratio data as well.
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: tlk]
#5120381
05/20/14 09:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
On some of the ranches they have accurate ratio data in the research areas.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: tlk]
#5120391
05/20/14 09:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Trap all the fawns and DNA test them.
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: tlk]
#5120394
05/20/14 09:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258
AmoCuernos
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258 |
They are looking at things backwards... if you are working on looking at individuals you can't bring them back to compare them all as one in an average...
The study looks to me like it takes a whole lot of time discussing what individual deer did... without bringing in a whole lot of why.
Those of us that have been managing for individuals forever have seen lots and lots of reasons for big jumps and big fall offs...
We've seen out of the blue drop offs and out of the blue "pops"
We know what shape is most likely to stall and what shape is most likely to blow up...
We know that rutting hard can wear a big buck down.
We know about the 4-5-6 sideways slide that means a lot of big deer don't get that much bigger from one year to the next in inches... because frame gets bigger and points get shorter... but the best deer pop out of it.
We know about illnesses that deer can luck out of and come back to normal...
We know about 10+" extra beam points caused by antler damage that are never going to come back...
We know about or suspect stress levels of individuals allowing them to get bigger...
We know about individuals losing their dominance in a set of deer... causing increased or decreased size...
etc etc etc...
I didn't see a whole lot of that in this thing.
Last edited by AmoCuernos; 05/20/14 09:15 PM.
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: tlk]
#5120399
05/20/14 09:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,610
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,610 |
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: AmoCuernos]
#5120409
05/20/14 09:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
They are looking at things backwards... if you are working on looking at individuals you can't bring them back to compare them all as one in an average...
The study looks to me like it takes a whole lot of time discussing what individual deer did... without bringing in a whole lot of why.
Those of us that have been managing for individuals forever have seen lots and lots of reasons for big jumps and big fall offs...
We've seen out of the blue drop offs and out of the blue "pops"
We know what shape is most likely to stall and what shape is most likely to blow up...
We know that rutting hard can wear a big buck down.
We know about the 5-6 sideways slide that means a lot of big deer don't get that much bigger from one year to the next.
We know about illnesses that deer can luck out of and come back to normal...
We know about 10+" extra beam points caused by antler damage that are never going to come back...
I didn't see a whole lot of that in this thing. How would you explain deer that are bigger at 9&10 than they were 5-7?
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: rifleman]
#5120414
05/20/14 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258
AmoCuernos
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258 |
They are looking at things backwards... if you are working on looking at individuals you can't bring them back to compare them all as one in an average...
The study looks to me like it takes a whole lot of time discussing what individual deer did... without bringing in a whole lot of why.
Those of us that have been managing for individuals forever have seen lots and lots of reasons for big jumps and big fall offs...
We've seen out of the blue drop offs and out of the blue "pops"
We know what shape is most likely to stall and what shape is most likely to blow up...
We know that rutting hard can wear a big buck down.
We know about the 5-6 sideways slide that means a lot of big deer don't get that much bigger from one year to the next.
We know about illnesses that deer can luck out of and come back to normal...
We know about 10+" extra beam points caused by antler damage that are never going to come back...
I didn't see a whole lot of that in this thing. How would you explain deer that are bigger at 9&10 than they were 5-7? I've heard it can happen. I don't let them many live that long and haven't seen it. If you read the article they took him out of a non-fed enclosure... and fed him... Deer are as good as their teeth. I have a 16 or 17 year old at the house... but he looks it... My findings are that you really have a window from 5-8+ to try to match rain with your biggest deer... so you have the ability to leave them... The only problem with that is... you are running a pretty significant death loss risk for that individual to allow him to live through the rut and try to come out the back side in the 7+'s... so is it worth it? If he has taken a 40 inch hit... then yeah it probably is... If he has the potential to be 30+ inches bigger and he is already 200... depends on what you already have hanging on the wall or sitting in the bank account.
Last edited by AmoCuernos; 05/20/14 09:22 PM.
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: tlk]
#5120420
05/20/14 09:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
That's the trend I'm seeing in deer that manage to slip through the cracks and reach those ages. Had one this past year that had been an 8 since '08 (deformed 1 yr and 7 the following) go up to 10. Our deal though is that the switch flips between 4 & 5 that makes the nocturnal so it's not a matter of letting them reach those ages, more a matter of actually seeing them.
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Re: Anyone seen this study? Your thoughts?
[Re: tlk]
#5120705
05/21/14 01:18 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,088
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,088 |
Good read. I've seen several instances where the buck grew his largest antler set at 4 1/2 years old
One was mid 170's at 4 and he never got out of the 150's after that. No protein and drought conditions played a role
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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